to into the cause of stress, there is no point dispatching release a to be left in storage without being delivered, especially the medical supplies which required some particles in temperature for handling the kind of things that i regret to say that the weights in window mixed and over 2 weeks, and these items may perish. the key method to is that the states of control, along with other from me and brotherly states, reiterate that they offer pets to deliver any quantities of humanitarian aid to the ceiling and placed renders the process less effective. and more difficult and the football we are doing what we come together with the exceptions, constantly and rapidly to insure the swift delivery of age and the desired quantities. however, we have faced with many obstacles. i named me so many. yes, president. dr. biden's been briefed about the shooting of 3 palestinian american university students in vermont on south of a 2 or an intensive care. you should have potentially of the 3 pallets the noun, american university students went buffington's amongst the thanksgiving holidays.

visiting the relatives of one of the 20 year olds, this fighters reported to have been taken just before they went for a walk to wearing because they are the traditional policy and head dress scarves. so they say they have no information as to a motion of the government, didn't say anything before shooting, but among the avenues of investigation. whether this is a hate crime, the fact if the government did not even shout, then it makes matters even worse. because at that point, somebody just walking up to individuals wearing because the and then shooting up for no apparent reason. it is even though more clear that it is a hate crime. they were not robbed. it wasn't a domestic violence situation. and it's not somebody that they know or somebody that could have targeted them for any other reason. a 3, a graduates of a school in ramallah and the occupied westbank. and i was studying at harvard brown and trinity university's in the us. we are to create the school in palestine who were established in age of 69, and we have the international baccalaureate program. most of our students,

let's say, even as a number of like 40 percent of our students, they study abroad in the us and in the euro. the students, families issue this statement. we call on law enforcement to conduct a foreign investigation, including treating this as a hate crime. we will not be comfortable until the shooter is brought to justice. we need to ensure that our children are protected and this heinous crime is not repeated. since the world goes a rise in the tags from arab americans and they simply coolant receive spar has been reported around the us, she ever time see out as well, and that's it from me directly to them for now, keep in mind if there's more information on our website, i'll just say around top. com. there it is. the bottom line is coming up next stage of the mexico disposal, well, 6000 migrants of di, a crossing here,

its southern border looking to push on tweets north and neva, united states. people have been queueing for days outside of mobile asylum onto the papers to try and get through the country on the northern border. the same story, if you want to see it as quite as matamoros for migrant cities or full as various countries in this region right now that have political instability for economic instability. those of the hall, this continue the journey. only the dream is safety and prosperity in the united states keeps been going hi of steve clements and i have a question with a ceasefire and a prisoner release or without what changes in the war on gaza. and what doesn't. let's get to the bottom line. the with a deal between hamas and israel for a temporary cease fire or without one. it's obviously we're seeing a new phase in israel's war and gaza. but the big questions remain. how far will

israel's operation go? is it winning hearts and minds or destroying them? what are the implications for america, israel's closest ally as nations around the world protest? israel's operation, which is so deadly, the innocence, particularly children. how about the implications for joe biden, whose popularity among democrats is in rapid decline? as younger voters are saying they can't support israel's actions in gaza. and really just what happens next. today we're talking with former c, i a director general david betray us, who's also served as commander of us central command and lead us forces in both afghanistan and iraq. his latest book is conflict. the evolution of warfare from 1945 to ukraine, and it just came out last month. jennifer trace, thank you so much for joining us. and sorry for the froggy fro. there is a deal on a hostage exchange. we're about $150.00 pounds austin in held and is really jails may be released for 50 hostages,

particularly elderly and children that come off has taken after it's ok. so october 7th attack. i'm interested in your reaction and this moment, but i'm also interested in the big picture when it comes to the broad side of israel achieving is it, it's objectives? does this help, or is it a relevant to that those objectives as well? i think it helps because one of the objectives is to gain release of the hostages. so clearly a partial return of a significant number of the hostages is positive in terms of meeting that particular objectives. but of course, it also allows for moss, a bit of a breather. a moss is, you know, if you will, a fighter is on the ropes to some degree. and when you're on the ropes, what you seek is a pause in the action. you seek a breather, it gives them an opportunity because this will stretch out for a number of days. my understanding is that, you know, there will be say 10 or so of the hostage. ready is released a day, there will be

a 6 hour window during which no drawings will fly over a gaza. so presumably that will limit the ability of these relays to figure out where the hostages are coming from. what come us fighters might be doing to facilitate this, etc, etc. so is going to provide a 5 or more day period during which hot abbas can reorganize regroup, and can redistribute ammunition and supplies and so forth. and as i said, get a bit of a breather from what has been a pretty intense all fences so far in northern gauze. or at least we've seen a lot of international reaction. a lot of reaction within the united states, the global south to what they see as indiscriminate bombing and rating and killing . now, the staggering number of innocent that have been killed is something that is getting a lot of reaction. so what would you advise for the next phase? well 1st i should just know that i,

i do tend to agree that law says revealed itself to be an extremist army. that is therefore irreconcilable. the analogy with the islamic state is flawed. there is obviously an element of palestinian nationalism that is present with a mosque that is different from what the islamic state stood for. but at the end of the day, they are both similar in that they are seen by their enemy as being irreconcilable . and when we were doing the search at a rock, for example, we went to a nor mrs lanes to determine with our intelligence assets, who are the reconcile level elements. and we try to strip them away from the sunni insurgents. the ronnie is supported, she and militia, and who are the irreconcilable elements, those that have to be captured or killed if they refused to be detained. and i think it come us through these horrible atrocities as barbaric action that they took even fill me in it. so the whole world could see the extent of the unspeakable

actions that they did take, that they have put themselves in the camp of irreconcilable and therefore they have to be, as israel has identified, destroyed, and as a military task, that means to render the enemy and capable of accomplishing his objective without reconstitution. keep an eye on that task without reconstitution because i think is one of the big questions that looms out there in addition to some others that i want to identify. israel is also sad about dismantling the political wing or from also is going to take down if you will, the government of gaza as well as the extremist elements that visited these barbaric acts on largely innocent. it is really civilians. so if that's the objective, then they've got to resume the operation. and one of the questions that the idea

of should answer is a vision that they should provide is what will life be like or palestinians in gaza after a boss has been destroyed in the political wing, has been dismantled. and then actually show that by clearing and holding areas and then beginning to rebuild it so that you are not just saying, you know, event attorney and assistance which they should definitely do again to hearts and minds really do matter here. and you should restore basic services, begin reconstruction of the enormous amount of damage and destruction. a lot of which just is unavoidable, by the way, steve again, as is tragically loss of innocent civilian life, but obviously have to keep that to an absolute minimum. israel claims that they are, i think they have to continue to examine that very, very closely. we had a sign on the wall of the operation centers when i was privileged to command in iraq and afghanistan, 5 come back commands in total is your recall. and that sign asked,

will this operation take more bad guys off the street that it creates by its conduct? and if the answer to that was no, in other words, it's going to create more bad guys than it takes off the street because you do it. then you're supposed to examine how it is that you reduce the risk of that. and if you can't, then you actually have to figure out how, how you're going to accomplish your objective some other way. i think that's a good process. it's a good question to, to answer. this is why it was steering me in the face, in all of these different op centers over the years. and i think that that question does a big again, an answer literally every time that you're looking at conducting a question, an operation. now, another facet here is also of course, ultimately, who is going to bolt, administer gaza, and who's going to secure it. and the security component is important because that's how you ensure that a mos cannot re constitute. and i think that is a very,

very big question as well. now to be fair to everyone is working on this issue of who can administer a guys a who can in a sense, governance and then who can provide security for it as they are also re establishing basic services and overseeing reconstruction. but the sooner that question is answered, the better, because a military commander needs what's called the desired end state. what is it we are seeking to accomplish here? be on the destruction of a boss and dismantlement of the political wing. there are several key questions that have to be answered in until they are answer. you really can't go about the military campaign right? with quite the, the, the vision that you would have if you had some sense of that. and i'll just, and by noting that, for example, there's got to be real concerned about the palestinian people in guys that you cannot eventually, israel's gonna have to go sell um or they just gonna push them around again. that's

not the right answer with it shouldn't be as to allow them to return to their homes or drawings or if necessary. refugee camps in the north given the damage and destruction in the way that so many of the structures have been made in an uninhabitable and by control of that security. and you have to have population control just as we did right in pollution, in ramadi, in these other cities as we cleared, held. and then what further, but we were rebuilding immediately as we proceeded so that the civilians could come back into them. we could restore their basic services and begin reconstruction channel, who has to be involved in this process for that to work. who has to become the defender of the palestinian side? if they have lost so many in this incursion, either this a, a strike by the israelis after the hamas attack. how can they have trust or faith in what has just happened to them, that there is a better horizon?

and, well again, i think there has to be a vision. it starts with a vision. this is what we're trying to accomplish. and this is what it will mean for you, that life will be better and then layout, how that will happen. and then set about making it happen. you know, who's going to be the ultimate defender. it may be the is really defense forces because again, i don't see hands going up in the region. you may of actually talk to a number of uh, old commer ends from the gulf states official, egypt and elsewhere. there are no hands going up that are volunteering to be the force on the ground, nor even the interim administration, or what have you, some kind of transitional authority. and there's a variety of plans that have been looted. none of that would strike me as particularly realistic, including the id, you know, certainly ideally there would be a competent, capable of in integrity of the. busy all the rest of this kind of

government that would come over from the west bank palestinians. dougherty, but i don't see a competent, capable, trustworthy entity that is going to come over. and they certainly don't want to be seen is coming in on the backs of is really tanks. so how is this going to be cobbled together? in my sense, my fear is that it probably is going to be the is really defense forces for an interim period. at the very least while others are trying to, to pursue the diplomacy and the other initiatives that can enable some kind of transitional authority. but it has to be given real authority. and again, can these really trust this interim authority to ensure that i'm honest, cannot reconstitute. i tend to doubt it. and if that's, if that's the case, then what happens when, how much does re constitute, and you have another one of these atrocities such as $107.00. also do this is why i

think that vision the sooner the better. nobody in that, yes, there's going to be criticism if israel is seen to be re occupying gaza, but again, tell me the alternative, but it raises another interesting fundamental question. you know, when you sort of look at essentially the day after, if we get to a day after and a day after i should say, as you've said, can be 9 months or longer. mosul was 9 months. so we can see there's, or for a very long time is really, is much more capable, i think, but again, it will be months, not weeks. right. and so in that situation, you know, i, i, i asked what the implications are for the united states and present barden, who's been trying to get you a manager and assistance in and, and had a lot of rough time getting a pretty minimal amount of humanitarian assistance. in where is the state of us power and leverage right now from your perspective, joe biden. once a 2 state solution sees this is the earthquake of earthquakes that could possibly

get us there. i'm wondering, is this just another conflict on a long line of conflicts where it eventually fades away and we really have nothing underneath this. the changes i think the is really, is, are determined that, that not be the case. now the problem is obviously the domestic politics in israel and all of that is somewhat on hold, steve, for the time being clearly the focus is on proceeding with the military operation. i don't think you can expect the opposition even to call for it. they can call for an eventual changing government. but i think that now that you have a coalition government to, to a degree or a government of the degree of national unity of that they're going to proceed with this war. hold off on the post more n z investigations and all the rest of that it for at least in a period of time until you see the objectives be much more close to being met. but of course that could stretch out. and then the impatience could begin. there's

pressure, of course in the united states front, there's pressure elsewhere on the world. there's another river, it's steve. i used to talk about you had the baghdad clock and you have the washington clock. and like watching the clock was always going very rapidly in the bag, dead clock, you'd sort of tap and every now and then there's a to ensure that it still moving because the progress at certain times was quite slow until we got it going. frankly, about 4 or 5 months into the search. but there's another clock here that's the is real, is really economic clock. how long can you keep 8 percent of your workforce in uniform without an impact on the economy. and again, that depends on a number of different factors. needless to say, including how much it will come from the outside. but that gives leverage to those countries that will engage in that as well. so, i mean, this is a very multi dimensional endeavor. this on going to the us sector estate obviously is traveling around trying to bring various pieces of this together to see what

might be possible in terms of an interim transitional authority. this really is our business, at least 2 different groupings. and they're in government that are and working away on these issues. the problem is that they are very, very hard and i'm not sure there's going to be the kind of resolution that folks would. ready like to see and therefore you're going to end up with something less than optimal because the optimal may not be possible. it's certainly i don't think is possible that we'll see a company capable and trustworthy palestinian entity at the head of this coming over from the pal sending authority. let me ask you a question about palestinian leadership because we see the p a as weak and we see a lot of the structural problems and leadership. but what is, what would you be invite, you know, advising. we got the top competent, palestinian crowd involved and say, what should they be doing right now? well, this is a tough one because there are, as you know,

it was very competent and capable individuals. i used to deal with the, the prime minister in ramallah, in my final government position who was exceedingly confident, but eventually got undermine, was sort of pushed to the side and really hasn't played a significant role since. and again, i'd love to see him. is this a lot by odd or different? yes. yeah, yeah. why? and he's written recently about and then plan and, and put forward affairs article and trying to put ideas on the table at least the the challenges. how do you empower him? can you put a team together can add at the already where with the resources and authorities come from? because obviously there's a lot of disagreement within the palestinian authority within font, uh, and so forth. so in each case or needs to be serious political reform. but there are entrenched interests that have opposed that quite firmly. and frankly, i'm not sure in all cases that those in jerusalem or that eager to see that change

. so again, there's a lot of factors that play here. it would be wonderful to see one of the really competent and capable and trustworthy leaders return from internal exile or however you want to term it or from external. there's some others in gulf states and so forth that had been discussed. i just don't know whether they can build a team or whether they can be empowered and what the process would be. how do you great, get the authorities from who, with the authorities be, be provided with this being a united nations entity knowing that there's going to have to be a lot of reform to the un uh, organization that oversees assistance here as well. given the, the versions of the materials that have been provided that clearly took place. you know, you don't build 300 miles of reinforced concrete tunnels with scraps here

and there. so this takes a real overhaul. and of course, that's why, as i mentioned, these are really hard issues, and it's not surprising that they haven't resolved them until this point in time. the problem is that at a certain point, yes, good knowledge that you may have to go with the undesirable solution, which is israel administer in this area. and if that's the case again, then begin thinking that through with all the attendant actions that you should be taken to ensure a better life for the palestinians as quickly as you possibly can to convince them that you mean it. but again, there should be a vision for that. and by the way, not just for gaza, but also for the west bank. my hope, steve, you know, you asked will this opportunity is a tragedy that has an opportunity can, can it be a catalyst that really does shake up the situation and result in some serious

attention to long standing issues when it comes to the situation between israel and the palestinians in the west bank as well as in gaza. and there's another side to this where there are a lot of americans are saying we get nothing from being engaged around the world. you know, what ends up happening. we get drawn in to drama and conflict and costs that don't help us middle class americans. and then just to interesting, interested to know to what degree you see, this is a trigger political yearly in america and what your concerns are. and i also worry, frankly about rising isolationism in america. i think it's incumbent on all leaders to very clearly explain that what we do around the world is not for charitable reasons, this because in our, in our national interest and in the interest of our allies in partners who work with us to maintain this so called rules based international order that we help

bring into existence in the wake of a 50 year period that included 2 horrible world wars in the great depression. and for all of the imperfections of this order. uh and there are plenty of it for all of the shortcomings. this is done reasonably well for the world and i would submit for the united states and again our allies in partners. so again, we're not members of nato because we have charitable instincts or interests here. we're members of nato and other alliances and partnerships in groupings because it is very much in our natural interest and not just our national security interest, but in the interest of our national prosperity as well. um i believe that the us is you know, this indispensable power that madeline albright used to describe, i know that term and it has been challenged at various points. but i think that it is accurate in that without us leadership in the world without us keeping all these

different plate spinning. and i would submit that there are more lights, more challenges, and threats and so forth, and more complex challenges and threats. then at any time since the end of world war 2, so our leadership is crucial. i think we have done an impressive job and responding to the brutal and unprovoked in russian invasion of ukraine, albeit with some decisions that took longer than they should have. but again, we've kept nato together with capt food and from driving, a wedge between europe and north america. we've ensure that the response is very robust, $44000000000.00 of us alone with europe. now actually more than that when it comes to security pledges, in addition to vastly more that they've provided and financial, economic, and humanitarian assistance. leading the way with the effort in, in financial, economic and personal sanctions on russia and export controls. now going after the sanctions invaders, all of this, the u. s. is done, i think,

very impressively noting again that i felt that there were some decisions that could have been made more rapidly. and that causes some challenges for ukraine during the summer offensive. but we have to remember and one of the lessons out of this, the book that and roberts and i just published, is that what happens in one part of the world reverberates and another. and if we show that we're not a steadfast ally for israel that will have ramifications out in the endo pacific. the withdrawal from afghanistan, the decision to withdraw by 2 administrations. and then the way it was conducted president, she seized on that and say, see, you can't depend on the americans or they're not reliable allies and look at what they were. they're clearly a great power in decline. and again, the eyes of the. ready world are on us when i was in keys 5 weeks or 6 weeks ago. they were more seized with what was going on in our house of representatives and most americans were. and in part because their survival can depend to some degree

on that. but again, we have to convince americans we who believe, i guess that america should be a world leader, the world leader, really when it comes to the western world and that the reason we do it is for our national interest in security terms. and also in terms of our national prosperity without i want to thank general david patricia as former director of the c i a former commander of sent tom. congratulations on the book, which i highly recommend to everyone. thank you so much for joining us. good to be with you. see was again, always a pleasure. so what's the bottom line? it matters how israel conducts itself in this war power, palestinians suppose to accept israel as a steward of gaza the day after the fighting stops. if his real wants to achieve any of it seems, it's going to have to figure out solutions that lead to the empowerment of palestine not be ongoing, the finished ration of its citizens. the problem i see is that the israel,

we see the day as launch and nothing visible that shows a sensitivity towards innocence or dying by the thousands nor pre positioning a discussion within is real or with the arab world or the west. and the palestinians themselves on what a future political horizon for palestine can be, some prisoners may be set free and that's great. but it's just not enough. this is a substantial crisis. shock waves are going to reverberate for years. and that's the bottom line. the as these reading war on gods that escalates out his ears, correspondence are on the ground. once it is impossible for civil defense teams to come to this part of the refuge account that was due car rushing to the hospital. he is really military is pushing deeper into guns. i didn't know fed option just to

evacuate to the southern areas which cause it to be also a very risky journey. both diplomats wait for a break through bombardment. thing guys a continue and the families waiting for the return of their relative people are really worried right now that they are facing collective punishment and only going to continue with and it just depends on which is 0. it is sure, a visual anti or some see through possibly, i mean i was in fear, i shot him dead. the controversial us know, stand your ground. you're seeing that these laws actually encourage more violence. giving assailants the right to kim. we're sending the message that you can just do this. this is ok. i'm denying justice to victims. families, lines investigate license to you on out you 0, thought provoking on. but the patient doesn't have time to wait for the extremely unfortunate script. there are no quick wins and eventually some odd hitting

interviews. do you feel like america is less than a day for these days or is it just a different full? i think that democracy is a process basically, entities do you feel that the fraction is already starting the g 7 in the us on one side, china and the brakes on the other? i think there is a huge piece of that to happen here. the story on talk to how does era, there is no channel that covers world views like we do as a roman correspondence, i am constantly on the goals, covering topics from politics, to environmental issues. a scale of is like nothing ever seen. what we want to know is how does these things affect people we revisit places day, even when there are no international headlines. houses, there are really invest in that. and that's a privilege as a journalist on counting the costs as well as the war, and also has all kinds of businesses time the economy withstand a prolonged conflict. garza is also replacing the spanish didn't adopt us despite

a wealth of natural gas office. coastline costs can origin tina's new president fix the nation's economic crisis. counting the cost on out of here, the $13.00 is really captive. so a 100 over in gaza, such a how much sales on to 0? it shows it's fine cuz i'll still be in control of areas that have been talking to advise wells ministry, the other one down, jordan, this is out 0 life. and oh, so coming up, a group of former captives is now back in israel, 3 time nationals and our russian is ready to a citizen. i've also been released the a westbank welcome.