the, the, it's the world slow down, we stand for as homes, with tip of global nickel reserves. indonesia is points to leave the global, the battery industries. we definitely manage our abundant resources and play a role in solar energy. harnessing offerings, 75 percent of global carbon credits. essential, committed to being fine, mental protection, enhancing investment climate digital licensing, your better tomorrow. cool is quite allowed to extend a fragile spot and to allow aid and to contact him, austin is around have been exchanging detainees and taxes now since friday. but what will it take to pay for an agreement like this, a live level or an extend the fee on these 4 days? this is inside store the

hello there and welcome to the program on this dante ok, now of to weeks of intense is rarely bombardment the people of gaza. finally enjoying a few days of relative calling from us. and israel are using this time to exchange and thousands of detainees and captives as part of that agreement. but that deal has a snag on saturday when a disagreement led to several hours of delay and releasing captives. so with a great deal of mistrust on both sides. how'd immediately as i'm sure that both israel and thomas play their pots and what are the logistical implications of facilitating such an agreement, kind of be extended beyond the 4 days. we'll get to our guests in just a moment, but here's what we know about this deal so far. it involves the release of a total of 50 as really captives and exchange for a 4 day c spine, which already began on friday. as part of that agreement about a $150.00 pounds,

a sting in women and children will also be freed from is really jails to monetary and age is another critical factor. the deal says about $200.00 trucks, with food medicine, water, and desperately needed fuel will be allowed intake off a daily. israel has also agreed not to fly brands across the northern garza for 6 hours a day. the steel is mediated by cats on egypt on the united states, but throughout this entire process, miss trust between the 2 sides has been a challenge. the. oh, well that's not bring in august in geneva. we have to be to a company. he's in the middle east regional director, the international committee of the red cross, and run out of state cook veteran negotiating himself through his mediation states files between last and is around in the past 2. and in london we haven't even esl, tiny, a rita in public law at the school of oriental african studies at the university of

london. a warm welcome to you. oh, thank you for being with us gentlemen. i want to stop about trust because this, this whole way that video has been structured so far appears to be about building trust. so one scientist does one thing, the other side responds by releasing another group. so captains are released then prisoners are released it for tentatively. it's a, it's a slow process one day of the time, given what we've seen so far, honest, i'm going to start with you wherever is trust them and is never trust. you never have a trust in it's not to see science, dental you. what we're talking about is a hook, no truce to see. so has some legal connotations, but we've had a truce of this nature. you never have trust. the 1st of all is always the problem of who, who is speaking, who has the mandate? now it's probably pretty care on the homicide that it's a sin. why not the people and, oh ha, ah no, the other side that seem to be

a lot of cooks you in the kitchen, you described them all. but the greatest problem with any c saw is to nail ever thing dog beforehand, and then it's post over to someone like one bill guest here to try and implemented . but you need to decide. i mean, 1st of all, evil, the simple things. who are the people who are going to be exchange? what does the names all they alive or they did. in one case, i had to do the negotiation and with as bullet. and of course, his body said, well, we won't give you proof of life, but conceptual cost you, you will have to release of more hostages in order to get that proof of life. and then you have the whole, the details of what is going to take place. what is the ratio that is the most complicated in the case of data, again, lecture lead to it was 1200. a pod is really the 21 or 41

prisoner actually um and so these are the main things and always this trust this trust. and by the way, this already discussed about today's release. i see that now it's turned around and these relatives are saying that actually it's how mos who's not allowing the humanitarian convoys to go to the north. and yesterday it was how much who was saying it was israel is not allowing the humanitarian go convoys good to the goals out of say you've said a lot that and i want to dig into into all of that. but, but let me start with the last thing that you've raised this he said, she said about who is obstructing aid. let me throw this one to you for being the 0 . i understand the, the international committee of the red cross. obviously you're involved with dealing with some of the captive release. it has been you all, i understand also dealing with some of the deliveries of medical aids that's taking place in gauze at the moment. now most yesterday was saying something like are in

the 65 of the 348 trucks that had entered garza had actually reached northern garza . i'm also saying that some less than half of what is right ahead of read for me is what is the hold up in mind? then we're obviously hearing different things from, from both sides. you know, i would go back to the question of trust because i think this is key in such an environment. and in this environment, everything is politicized. i would even say that everything is weaponized and just show a question about how many trucks comes in or not. who's responsible not? it's not just, i would say a new trend question. this is a question and an answer which has consequences consequences on who's respecting on not an agreement. and that's where i think as i see, i see, and it's sometimes very, it's not understood. we need to find the space where we can be seen

as playing this game. so uh and any viruses, obviously from one moment to another, into a conflict, the issues, batteries. but in this moment, right now, i think if we agree that for us, the most important thing today is to replace in the absence of trust between parties to allow the deed to take place. and the thieves had different dimension. we talk about the release, we talk about the assistance coming in. and so i think for us and i repeat is often misunderstood as not having opinion of not caring. that's not the point. the point today is that in this crisis, you at least need one actor. we shouldn't be permanently in the communication in the judging in giving opinion, saying there is a moment why we should, you know,

keep these positions these, these right now. well, let me ask you that if i bring it to allows us to understand that there are many questions that you call and people alone in order for i see all see to be able to, to do its very important job. at the moment. we have an understanding and we've been hearing from you that you are being given lists of captives to be released every day. and i want to try to give that a view is here, a little bit of an insight into some of the logistics perhaps behind this process. so let me perhaps, i'll ask you a factual question at the moment. do you have any comments here at the moment on how many captives there are and who is holding them? because i'm us initially. it said that they, they weren't sure where they are. why they weren't sure of exact numbers at this stage. do we have that list? you know, we don't have it on each day by day that each works. so every day we have a series of instructions, a series of,

of information on places on who's going to be released when, how, but so far we don't have this, this general overview on who is having. so it's um, it's a day by day exercise, which is obviously very complex. so we don't talk this over to you. and let me see if i can phrase this in a way that you're able to answer it. do you have any sense of how the captives are being chosen? obviously we know that women and children because of the deal. so when we're talking about civilian captives at the moment, have you been given any sense of if perhaps those who, who might need more medical assistance, we've obviously seen a lot of elderly captives being released if, if they have been prioritized, have any of those conversations been taking place with the i see all see doing i think this is an important issue is that we don't have access especially to the

hostages in gaza. we have no knowledge of the detention condition. we have no knowledge. they well being, we don't know where they are. we haven't seen them and we repeatedly us to see them visit them since i think the one. so for the time being we are working in an environment which i would code not up to month to. and you know, we are, you might say organization. we are not the logistics organization. and so for us it's, it's sometimes very difficult to only do part of our united work. and today we do part of that. you might and work because we cannot visits. we cannot provide proof of lives to the family. and also by the way on these ready sides, we not allowed to visit anymore, the place of detention. so we do our best in a very politicize environment's nothing to do with. you may turn action. we try

never the less to piece of as much as we can, or you might tend space. okay, thank you for that. somebody's here. i want to throw a question to me man, because we've been talking a lot here about trust. obviously a trust was pretty hard to find to even get to this point. but as we see, both sides continues to point the finger in each other in terms of, of i guess, smaller violations of what's perceived to be the deal. when is your assessment of where trust is? could something as small as, as a blame game that we're seeing go on daily at the moment, come back the rail, the process, or would it just potentially or stop the idea of an extension of this is fine. it was a the question of trust in the midst of the genocide of campaign against an essentially somebody and population is how to find. so the question ceasefire uh is uh you know, broken down to kind of instrumental elements in

a line that kind of situation offset, onslaught this, if you remember in the what's the so called protective edge operation in 2014, we had a situation off of 17 c as far as doing 50 days of military activity. and today with the question is, is this a sort of downs he's find out what is it a long times he's flat on the is when he's obviously made. it's clear that it is a short term ceasefire. and the way i see it that on the main challenges to the ceasefire are holding up the fashionable beasley. this is fly out from these are the site does not include any station of hostile admitted to the activity in the west bank. and we have at least 6 students who have come by as many reins in the past through the end. and this is betsy's last stop to. and we need to remember here the context off the, the set of the outbreak of bios and the similar to that which is that there was

a violation of the start of school and a locks on the sides by the firelight, zionist, the exodus including a members of the, uh, is there a government as well as the could be, uh, is uh, thousands of prisoners while languishing for decades and is really presumes and sadly, the photos and a sometimes violence in the west bank. so i have these contains, continue, obviously, that we contribute to the facility of any c spy on each month. and then secondly, we have had from the beginning of the seas for somebody is any side specifically the minister of defense that they intend for at least to be a fit um at the end of month in which they continue the the, what is essentially a one sided onslaught and a situation of a gross as soon as we are at between the 2 side and the what the gate the what the customer base these issue is. the issue is that we are in this

situation that the some of the medicine, the $96.00 is even a more insight as ryan, in the sense that we have a weak political leadership. and these are many, uh, army jobs are the ones what actually setting up to one and behind them there is up to the mobilization of society, society and war with the stick doors and immunization come to us, which became a come up for a genocide. those campaign, and this is head of the internet, i would say for the a c side holding up is where the us, who has to be in the main blockage for a peaceful out of added solution in the, you know, security council will finally a respond to the civilized was uh, the man that the jump out of the campaign and goes as thoughts numa. i want to get into the department say in just a moment, but let me pick up on something you said that you were talking about this ongoing crackdown that we've seen to and the occupied westbank. we've seen escalating

arrest since october, the 7th, thousands and thousands of people now also depending on how the next few days play out. we've already seen arrests over the last 2 days. the number of people detained by, as well over the course of, of this 4 days, but i could actually end up exceeding the number of people release depending on how it all guy is. obviously, how is this deal with the one being viewed and the occupied westbank is this, i mean it's obviously not a violation of the ceasefire because this is why it covers cause of it. is it perhaps a violation of trust? what as i said, it is difficult to do with the language of sci fi out. it's a scope skew, is the situation of occupation as the i see, i see a lot of you on and legal qualities have repeatedly saved since 2005, the so called disengagement plan. the guys that continued continues to be an occupied at $32.00 and only recently december last in the un general assembly. if

the situation nobody got it. okay. is there any control over the person in the trees in the west bank is or isn't and as a to the i see g leads as a court of justice. so the problem with that is that the see sign language, you be, excuse the obligations of the occupying power towards the people does and the lowest bank. and that is what the, i'll keep my surgeries, including me to go and food supplies. so now the ceasefire arrangement is the one in which the best thing isn't guys are able to allow you many today and they leave allow me to come in for the supplies even though even in the move july situation is israel and i for this with the geneva conventions that should be allowing that kind of access on and be that in fact, only a few years ago in 2018, the one security council decided that service start of ation. on the, on the denial, assuming that an access scanner has to be a mix of,

of the tools work fairly well. we've had, we've had a number of different agencies and you and agencies also criticized the use of, of starvation as, as potentially in use as a weapon of what, in this case, i just want to get back to some of the nitty gritty parts of, of this deal and just how it might evolve over the course of the next 48 hours or so. i'm out of state. i wanted to ask you a little more about something you mentioned that this may share that we've seen so far, 3 to one in terms of palestinian prisoners for is really captives. so obviously, as i was saying, women and children being released on aside sir, find these are presumably easy a captives to have negotiations about the women and children when we get to, to men. when we get to soldiers that ratio change. you talked about that the huge ratio and they could actually case which you were involved in, more than a 1000 to one. all those conversations taking place right now, but for what might happen after these releases over 4 days. if they do continue, you know,

they're not and i just want to go back and say we need to talk about 2 different things. but really we say, you know, this is not, you know, a political exercise the aisle the aisles to see it has a very difficult the red cross has a very difficult road of trying to be sort of in the middle of this. but of course, this is highly political in the sense that both sides so trying to use every element to full psychological advantage to come out to look as if they won the 6 sides. and this is behind the loss of these problems. so we get when they can be mind a problem and i just want to make it clear of the ceasefire as i did. i mean most of them failed. one of them failed just on the statement by one person and the whole thing collapsed. another one was a cult going off during the sci fi, and that was a see, saw another quote and, and the point about this is, you know, there are 3 open fronts,

at least at the moment facing israel. and my lesson from doing these holding those was oh, as you call and have if you like cotton one place you call and have quotes and basically him and you have wall going on in april and we'll have a little some other parts of the territories. it doesn't work like that. and so you have the west bank, which is really on a night section at the moment. and always in these homeless you have a group or an element that is not in favor of the whole not continued. yes. so grow wells as a whole may be in favor of as us and turning it from holding our into a c file with some legal and go back to the legal, the underpinnings. good. but there are also people, and we know that it in their truck who don't want to to continue because they want to get back to the wall on garza. and they know that the longer this goes on,

the harder it is to start that for again. and the committed to restarting it. so i think all was my feeling was that this was going to be a very short list of truth. and it may go on for 4 days. it may have an extra day or so, but that will be very lucky if we get that. do you expect to see any of the prison that will have to release is beyond what's already been agreed and you say there's discussions on, on taking place at the moment that has obviously been heard so that that, that might happen? well, so that will be pressure from is really the families at least try and get older children and the women out. but when it comes to the man, many of whom are military or from the central months being trained by the idea of them. it's a completely different ball game and then it is all for all in the terms of how much i owe. israel's praise moves palestinian christmas of which survived

$6000.00 plus in return for the holdings of the mail. some of them military including some of them very seen him and a trick. hostages that the holding and gaza and we have had some ha, so they were expecting more senior figures to have been released over the course of the last couple of days. i understand that they were people released to need just weeks from the end of their present times, but they're being counted as part of that number. let me go back to from beats here because you've been very hands on with this. and obviously you're dealing with a huge amount of attention. we're holding very fragile, seized by there and, and, and trying to, to facilitate these releases and the age going in as well. this is all being monitored. i understand by an operation center that's being managed by capital and, and this is all supposed to be happening in real time. they're supposed to be representatives of both sides involved and this how is not working or not lacking? it's yeah, it's, um, it's

a very sophisticated choreography and you have many moving parts which condition one, the one in the other. so, yeah, we know we are, we have many colleagues embedded all in close contact with different parts of this deal. and we need to make sure that we move according to what is agreed. so it's uh, it's complex, um and it's, it's happening in an environment of violence, this trust. and also, um, i mean dramatic, you may turn environment, i think, you know, we talking about really using people, women and children in a place because uh, which is devastated. which is scared because as you said, it's supposed to treat for 5 base. and then what?

so it's um, emotional video, so very low that it so so very tens because we don't do that in a vacuum and we do that in gaza surrounded by people who are really struggling every day to stay to stay alive. so i think that's why these focus on the release is important because it's an important new my time issues. and at the same time we shouldn't lose perspective on the bigger picture, which is the 6 weeks of unbelievable violence. hundreds of thousands of people displays affected. and you mentioned that there is also the west bank and what is really hard for, for us as you might need to iran is it's not over, you know, and then we have a hard time and i'm talking from the field perspective not from my consult to the

office in geneva. mm hm. i mean, why the, oh, you know what, what's the end game of, of all of this disaster. so that's what i'm saying. i want to ask exactly that question that you've just posed for me. it's area to to me, man, because as you say during these 4 days, we're getting a bit more of an opportunity now with, with a slightly present ease of movement within garza to see the full extent of the disruption that's taking place. and i've been wondering whether seeing that i'm seeing that being documented, man, is that changing perceptions or pressure on israel to, to not only explain its end game, but also potentially change the way that it conducts this rule. if, if it's old as with you in the course of the next couple of days, i would say just to make a comment on mr. crooks you is repeated use of the word i don't think using the

words are not as useful in this context. i think it's one of the mess defies that. the issues of 10, we would have used him, it was have to go and these are the he had a mentally obscures the context. mystifies that make it look as, as it is. okay. sorry, yeah. and then i, i don't want to get into into a semantics hand because we don't want us to run out of time talking about this. so just to clarify for our view is putting the is a time that is often used. i understand correct me if i'm wrong by her mouth full and extended the safe spot of thoughts, a phase within a broad phase that could at some point lead to some kind of reconciliation. so let's at this point, talk about what, what maybe to come rather than focusing necessarily just on the what yeah, i mean the see. so i don't really need to be using this, this was the make it look at it's a bit kind of more unable to explain the exact situation and the way it's in terms of your question with respect to the z, riley use of

a visually unlimited, and selection of sorting on civilians and the government particular but also in the us that the main problem is impunity. so there have been different campaigns in the past and which is where i also violated the intentional long things are for crimes and the crimes against humanity. and there was no repercussions that we have no consequences, the consequences, there was no accountability, despite the well documented. and, and violation of international law by the 15 minutes, when i issues as well as the you. and so that's the offense issue here, that this is the initial law, unintentionally going to solutions are now as so hot and i'm major set back in terms of any form of credibility, but also on the side of the western power such as the us, the u. k, germany, but also they, you are seen as enable us and complicit in the genocide campaign. that is what it

is listing on gas. so as long as there's more pressure of being a exercise or what is right, we would see that even in the southern problem guys, and being exposed to the same kind of horrendous me. ma'am, i'm going to jump in here. i'm sorry, because i do want to ask alistair, one of the one more question around what we've been discussing in terms of what might happen after these 4 days. and also in terms of, of exit existing international pressure. because one of the things that we've talked about a lot is what all the parties are doing. but we haven't spoken of rage amounts about the agency of the palestinian people, the people in gauze of themselves. and almost as someone who's been negotiate, who's been involved in a lot of these processes at the moment, is there a sense of who might be the posting and representative of the people? not necessarily all the different political function. that of the people have gone as a sitting at that table in terms of trying to define their own future. is there a conversation about that? just very, very briefly. yes. if you've seen the videos,

i mean it was so striking. the n a issue. there was a saw some of the sense of solid dark. when the prism is the palestinian christmas were received in the west bank. i think we are seeing something very different unless not to forget. this is also being seen by the rest of the islamic world. and it's changing it. yes, it is changing it. it is creating a sense of cohesion, of communal effort. it is creating also a sense of national, a national project, and i'm, is i make project together as a to have been separate for a long time. and now we're seeing them come together in a very possible way. and we'll see how those dynamics pounds and the coming days and weeks and months ahead. thank you very much for joining me here on inside storage gentlemen. i was to crook from be to cover any, any muscle tone soltani. and from beats here, we really wish you on the i see all say all the best with your wife. thank you to

for watching. you can see this program again, any time by visiting our website out, is there a dot com for further discussion? do go to our facebook page, that's facebook dot com, forward slash a inside story. remember, you can also join the conversation on x. i handle is as a inside story. for me, this nonsense, hey, i'm the whole team here. the, the the,

[000:00:00;00] the flow on the bulk of this has been use our lives some time coming up for the next 60 minutes. intense diplomatic efforts underway to expand a forward a c spot in gaza,

a mouse and israel say they willing to do it for their disagreements. full truck science because and on the last day of the 658 agencies war and it's not enough for