or after january, 1st 2000 to $9.00, to buy cigarettes, overturn for a special coverage of the war on garza and the british plastic surgeon who travel to gaza at the beginning of the war is planning to hand over evidence of what she says are multiple is really war crimes, doctor, the son of a sister is now back in london after working at gauze as to biggest hospitals. harry fawcett reports go so i'm i will see to is now out have goes up, but he carries with him guilt about having left and memories of pain his own. and that of the patients he had to treat up to the unexpected could run out, inflicting this kind of pain to children. but at the same time, knowing that they were starting to show signs of substance of infection. this needed to be done as soon as possible. that was probably the most difficult thing and the most difficult thing for the parents who understood, understood their while their child was screaming the leading plastic search and he'd left the u. k. in the days off of the hamas rate on southern is really communities aware of what he calls the small window available to get in. to work

here that goes out chief a hospital where he witnessed the entire health system disintegrate and the sustained military attack. under the, the hospital in both he says he so clear evidence is really war crimes which he's now pausing on to british police and the targeting of patients trying to get to the hospital use of phosphorus on civilians. an open areas, the use of fragmentation, missiles for targeting as the hospital. all of these things are part of what needs to be done to give justice to the victims. israel has denied using white phosphorus and this was the dr. obviously to assess, he treated injuries, the boards hallmarks deep chemical bones through to the 3rd. israel also says that the blast in the comp pocket alas, the hospital on the 17th of october that killed 100 sheltering the was the result of a misfired palestinian rocket. talked obviously that was there at the time and he says

what he saw contradicts that the warnings of these varies have made, has made repeatedly and the types of injuries that i saw, the types of loans that these injuries have a, the, the full of all of what has happened to the health system before and after? i'm in new adults. the metropolitan police has confirmed that it has received a number of referrals regarding war crimes in garza, and that any information of the assessors is appropriate will be passed on to the international criminal court ongoing investigation into will crimes in the occupied palestinian territories. high school said, i'll just say we're going to hold online for more information. our website is alta 0 dot com will senior back here at the top of the hour. the bottom line is next by the to submit to the world. slow down. we stand firm as homes with tips of global

nickel reserves. indonesia is fois to leave the global easy battery industry. we definitely manage our abundant resources and play a role in solar energy. harnessing offerings, 75 percent of global carbon credits essential, committed to environmental protection, enhancing investment climate, digital licensing, your better tomorrow. hi of steve clements and i have a question with a ceasefire and a prisoner release or without what changes in the war on gaza. and what doesn't. let's get to the bottom line. the with a deal between from us in israel for a temporary cease fire or without one. it's obviously we're seeing a new phase in israel's warren gaza. but the big questions remain, how far will israel's operation go? is it winning hearts and minds or destroying them? what are the implications for america, israel's closest ally as nations around the world protest, israel's operation,

which is so deadly to innocence, particularly children. how about the implications for joe biden, whose popularity among democrats is in rapid decline? as younger voters are saying they can't support israel's actions in gaza. and really just what happens next to day. we're talking with former c, i a director general david betray us, who's also served as commander of us central command and lead us forces in both afghanistan and iraq. his latest book is conflict. the evolution of warfare from 1945 to ukraine, and it just came out last month. jennifer trace, thank you so much for joining us. and sorry for the froggy fro. there is a deal on a hostage exchange. we're about 150 palestinian held in is really jails may be released for 50 hostages, particularly elderly. and children that come off has taken app. sure. it's also october 7th attack. i'm interested in your reaction in this moment,

but i'm also interested in the big picture when it comes to the broadside of israel achieving, is it? it's objectives? does this help or is it a relevant to that those objectives? well, i think it helps because one of the objectives is to gain release of the hostages. so clearly a partial return of a significant number of the hostages is positive in terms of meeting that particular objective. but of course, it also allows from us a bit of a breather. a mazda is, you know, if you will, a fighter on the ropes to some degree. and when you're on the ropes, what you seek is a pause in the action. you seek a breather, it gives them an opportunity because this will stretch out for a number of days. my understanding is that, you know, there will be, say 10 or so of the hostages released a day. there will be a 6 hour window during which no drones will fly over a gaza. so presumably that will limit the ability of these relays to figure out where the hostages are coming from. what come us fighters might be doing to

facilitate this, etc, etc. so it's going to provide a 5 or more day period during which hot a mosque and reorganize regroup, can re distribute ammunition and supplies and so forth. and as i said, get a bit of a breather from what has been a pretty intense or offensive so far in northern gauze. or at least we've seen a lot of international reaction. a lot of reaction within the united states, the global south to what they see as indiscriminate bombing and rating the killing . now, the staggering number of innocents that have been killed is something that is getting a lot of reaction. so what would you advise for the next phase? well, 1st i should just note that i, i do tend to agree that a mazda has revealed itself to be an extremist army. that is therefore

irreconcilable the analogy with the islamic stage is flawed. there is obviously an element of palestinian nationalism that is present with a mosque that is different from what the islamic state stood for. but at the end of the day, they are both similar in that they are seen by their enemy as being irreconcilable . and when we were doing the search at a rock, for example, we went to a nor mrs lanes to determine with our intelligence assets, who are the reconcile level elements. and we try to strip them away from the sunni insurgents. the ronnie is supported, she and militia, and who are the irreconcilable elements, those that have to be captured or killed if they refused to be detained. and i think it come us through these horrible atrocities as barbaric action that they took even fill me in it. so the whole world could see the extent of the unspeakable actions that they did take, that they have put themselves in the camp of irreconcilable and therefore they have

to be, as israel has identified, destroyed, and as a military task, that means to render the enemy and capable of accomplishing his objective without reconstitution. keep an eye on that task without reconstitution because i think is one of the big questions that looms out there in addition to some others that i want to identify. israel is also sad about dismantling the political wing or from also is going to take down if you will, the government of gaza as well as the extremist elements that visited these barbaric acts on largely innocent. it is really civilians. so if that's the objective, then they've got to resume the operation. and one of the questions that the idea of should answer is a vision that they should provide is what will life be like for palestinians in gaza after

a boss has been destroyed in the political wing has been dismantled. and then actually showed that by clearing and holding areas and then beginning to rebuild it so that you are not just saying, you know, event attorney and assistance which they should definitely do again, the hearts and minds really do matter here. and you should restore basic services, begin reconstruction of the enormous amount of damage and destruction. a lot of which just is unavoidable, by the way, steve again, as is tragically loss of innocent civilian life, but obviously have to keep that to an absolute minimum. israel claims that they are, i think they have to continue to examine that very, very closely. we had a sign on the wall of the operation centers when i was privileged to command in iraq and afghanistan, 5 come back commands in total is your recall. and that sign asked, will this operation take more bad guys off the street that it creates by its conduct? and if the answer to that was no, in other words,

it's going to create more bad guys than it takes off the street because you do it. then you're supposed to examine how it is that you reduce the risk of that. and if you can't, then you actually have to figure out how, how you're going to accomplish your objective some other way. i think that's a good process. that's a good question to, to answer. this is why it was staring me in the face, in all of these different op centers over the years. and i think that that question does a big again, an answer literally every time that you're looking at conducting a question, an operation. now, another facet here is also of course, ultimately, who is going to bolt, administer gaza, and who's going to secure it. and the security component is important because that's how you ensure that a mos cannot re constitute. and i think that is a very, very big question as well. now to be fair to everyone is working on this issue of who can administer a guys a who can in a sense, governance and then who can provide security for it as they are also re

establishing basic services and overseeing reconstruction. but the sooner that question is answered, the better, because a military commander needs what's called the desired end state. what is it we are seeking to accomplish here? be on the destruction of a boss and dismantlement of the political wing. there are several key questions that have to be answered in until they are answer. you really can't go about the military campaign right? with quite the, the, the vision that you would have if you had some sense of that. and i'll just, and by noting that, for example, there's got to be real concerned about the palestinian people in guys that you cannot eventually, israel's gonna have to go sell. um, are they just gonna push them around again? that's not the right answer with it shouldn't be as to allow them to return to their homes or drawings or if necessary. refugee camps in the north given the

damage and destruction in the way that so many of the structures have been made in an uninhabitable and by control that security. and you have to have population control just as we did right in pollution, in ramadi, in these other cities as we cleared, held. and then what further, but we were rebuilding immediately as we proceeded so that the civilians could come back into them. we could restore their basic services and begin reconstruction channel, who has to be involved in this process for that to work. who has to become the defender of the palestinian side? if they have lost so many in this incursion, either this a, a strike by the israelis after the hamas attack. how can they have trust or faith in what has just happened to them, that there is a better horizon as well? again, i think there has to be a vision. it starts with a vision. this is what we're trying to accomplish. and this is what it will mean for you, that life will be better and then layout,

how that will happen. and then set about making it happen. you know, who's going to be the ultimate defender. it may be the is really defense forces because again, i don't see hands going up in the region. you may of actually talk to a number of uh, old commer ends from the gulf states, uh, the official egypt and elsewhere. there are no hands going up that are volunteering to be the force on the ground, nor even the interim administration, or what have you, some kind of transitional authority. and there's a variety of plans that have been looted. none of that would strike me as particularly realistic, including the id, you know, certainly ideally there would be a competent, capable of in integrity. busy all the rest of this kind of government that would come over from the west bank palestinian authority. but i don't see a competent, capable,

trustworthy entity that is going to come over. and they certainly don't want to be seen is coming in on the backs of is really tanks. so how is this going to be cobbled together? in my sense, my fear is that it probably is going to be the is really defense forces for an interim period. at the very least while others are trying to, to pursue the diplomacy and the other initiatives that can enable some kind of transitional authority. but it has to be given real authority. and again, can these really trust this interim authority to ensure that i'm honest, cannot reconstitute. i tend to doubt it. and if that's, if that's the case, then what happens when a boss does re constitute and you have another one of these atrocities such as 17. also do this is why i think that vision the sooner the better. nobody in that, yes, there's going to be criticism if israel is seen to be re occupying gaza, but again,

tell me the alternative, but it raises another interesting fundamental question. you know, when you sort of look at essentially the day after, if we get to a day after and a day after, i should say, as you said, can be 9 months or longer. mosul was 9 months. so we can see there's war for a very long time. it is really, it's much more capable, i think, but again, it will be months, not weeks. right. and so in that situation, you know, i, i, i ask what the implications are for the united states and present barden, who's been trying to get you a manager and assistance in and, and had a lot of rough time getting a pretty minimal amount of humanitarian assistance in where is the state of us power and leverage right now from your perspective, joe biden. once a 2 state solution sees this is the earthquake of earthquakes that could possibly get us there. i'm wondering, is this just another conflict on a long line of conflicts where it eventually fades away and we really have nothing underneath this. the changes i think is really, is,

are determined that not be the case. now the problem is obviously the domestic politics in israel. and all of that is somewhat on hold, steve, for the time being clearly the focus is on proceeding with the military operation. i don't think you can expect the opposition even to call for it. they can call for an eventual changing government. but i think that now that you have a coalition government to, to a degree or a government of the degree of national unity that they're going to proceed with this war. hold off on the post more n z investigations and all the rest of that for at least in a period of time until you see the object is be much more close to being met. but of course that could stretch out. and then the impatience could begin. there's pressure, of course, in the united states front, there's pressure elsewhere on the world. there's another member of the steve i used to talk about you had the baghdad clock and you have the washington clock in

washington clock was always going very rapidly and the baghdad clock you'd sort of tap and every now and then this is to ensure that it's still moving because the progress at certain times was quite slow until we got it going, frankly, about 4 or 5 months into the search. but there's another clock here that's the is real, is really economic clock. how long can you keep 8 percent of your workforce in uniform without an impact on the economy? and again, that depends on a number of different factors. needless to say, including how much it will come from the outside. but that gives leverage to those countries that will engage in that as well. so, i mean, this is a very multi dimensional endeavor. this on going to the us sector estate obviously is struggling around trying to bring various pieces of this together to see what might be possible in terms of an interim, transitional authority, the israel, these are the things at least 2 different groupings. and there are government that

are and working away on these issues. the problem is that they are very, very hard and i'm not sure there's going to be the kind of resolution that folks would. ready like to see and therefore you're going to end up with something less than optimal because the optimal may not be possible. it's certainly i don't think is possible that we'll see a company capable and trustworthy palestinian entity at the head of this coming over from the palestinian authority. let me ask you a question about palestinian leadership because we see the p a as weak and we see a lot of the structural problems and leadership. but what is, what would you be invite, you know, advising. we got the top competent, palestinian crowd involved in the say what your today be doing right now? well, this is a tough one because there are, as you know, it was very competent and capable individuals. i used to deal with the, the prime minister in ramallah, in my final government position who was exceedingly confident,

but eventually got undermined, was sort of pushed to the side and really hasn't played a significant role since that. and again, i'd love to see him. is this a lot by odd or different? yeah, yeah, yeah. why? and he's written recently about and then plan and, and performed affairs article and trying to put ideas on the table at least the, the challenge is how do you empower him? can you put a team together? can add at the already where with the resources and authorities come from. because obviously there's a lot of disagreement within the palestinian authority within font, uh, and so forth. so in each case or needs to be serious political reform. but there are entrenched interests that have opposed that uh, quite firmly. and frankly, i'm not sure in all cases that those in jerusalem or that eager to see that change . um, so again, there's a lot of factors that play here. it would be wonderful to see one of the really

competent and capable and trustworthy leaders return from internal exile or however you want to term it or from external. there's some others in gulf states and so forth that had been discussed. i just don't know whether they can build a team or whether they can be empowered and what the process would be. how do you great, get the authorities from who would the authorities be be provided with this being a united nations entity knowing that there's going to have to be a lot of reform to the un uh, organization that oversees assistance here as well. given the, the versions of the materials that have been provided that clearly took place. you know, you don't build 300 miles of reinforced concrete tunnels with scraps here and there. so this takes a real overhaul. and of course, that's why, as,

as i mentioned, these are really hard issues. and it's not surprising that they haven't resolved them until this point in time. the problem is that at a certain point, yes, good knowledge that you may have to go with the undesirable solution, which is israel administer in this area. and if that's the case again, then begin thinking that through with all the attendant actions that you should be taken to ensure a better life for the palestinians as quickly as you possibly can to convince them that you mean it. but again, there should be a vision for that. and by the way, not just for a gaza, but also for the west bank. my hope steve, you know, you asked will this opportunity is a tragedy that has an opportunity? can it, can it be a catalyst that really does shake up the situation and result in some serious attention to long standing issues when it comes to the situation between israel and the palestinians in the west bank as well as in gaza. and there's another side to

this where there are a lot of americans are saying we get nothing from being engaged around the world. you know, what ends up happening. we get drawn in to drama and conflict and costs that don't help us middle class americans. and then just to interesting, interested to know to what degree you see, this is a trigger political yearly in america and what your concerns are. and i also worry, frankly about rising isolationism in america. i think it's incumbent on all leaders to very clearly explain that what we do around the world is not for charitable reasons, this because in our, in our national interest and in the interest of our allies in partners who work with us to maintain this so called rules based international order that we help bring into existence in the wake of a 50 year period that included 2 horrible world wars in the great depression. and for all of the imperfections of this order. uh and there are plenty of it for all

of the shortcomings. this is done reasonably well for the world and i would submit for the united states and again our allies in partners. so again, we're not members of nato because we have charitable instincts or interests here. we're members of nato and other alliances and partnerships in groupings because it is very much in our natural interest and not just our national security interest, but in the interest of our national prosperity as well. i believe that the us is, you know, this indispensable power that madeline albright used to describe, i know that term and it has been challenged at various points. but i think that it is accurate in the without us leadership in the world without us keeping all these different plate spinning. and i would submit that there are more lights, more challenges, and threats and so forth,

and more complex challenges and threats. then at any time since the end of world war 2, so our leadership is crucial. i think we have done an impressive job and responding to the brutal and unprovoked in russian invasion of ukraine, albeit with some decisions that took longer than they should have. but again, we've kept nato together. we've kept booting from driving, a wedge between europe and north america. we've ensure that the response is very robust, $44000000000.00 of us alone with europe. now actually more than that when it comes to security pledges, in addition to vastly more that they're provided in financial, economic, and humanitarian assistance. leading the way with the effort in, in financial, economic and personal sanctions on russia and export controls. now going after the sanctions of vader's, all of this, the u. s. is done, i think, very impressively noting again that i felt that there were some decisions that could have been made more rapidly. and that causes some challenges for ukraine

during the summer offensive. um, but we have to remember one of the lessons out of this, the book that and roberts and i just published is that what happens in one part of the world reverberates and another. and if we show that we're not a steadfast ally for israel that will have ramifications out in the endo pacific. the withdrawal from afghanistan, the decision to withdraw by 2 administrations. and then the way it was conducted president, she seized on that and say, see, you can't depend on the americans or they're not reliable allies and look at what they were. they're clearly a great power in decline. and again, the eyes of the. ready world are on us when i was in keys 5 weeks or 6 weeks ago. they were more seized with what was going on in our house of representatives and most americans were. and in part because their survival can depend to some degree on that. but again, we have to convince americans we who believe, i guess that america should be a world leader, the world leader,

really when it comes to the western world and that the reason we do it is for our national interest in security terms. and also in terms of our national prosperity without i want to thank general david patricia as former director of the c i a former commander of sent tom. congratulations on the book, which i highly recommend to everyone. thank you so much for joining us. good to be with you see, once again, always a pleasure. so what's the bottom line? it matters how israel conducts itself in this war, power, palestinians suppose to except israel as a steward of gaza. the day after the fighting stops. if israel wants to achieve any of it seems it's going to have to figure out solutions that lead to the empowerment of palestine not be ongoing, the finished ration of its citizens. the problem i see is that the israel, we see today as launch nothing visible that shows a sensitivity towards innocence or dying by the thousands nor pre positioning a discussion within is real or with the arab world or the west and the palestinians

themselves on what a future political horizon for palestine can be some prisoners, may be set free, and that's great, but it's just not enough. this is a substantial crisis. shockwave are going to reverberate for years. and that's the bottom line, the the latest news as it strikes on the job of the refugee camp was so powerful that it uprooted the foundation of this multi story building with detailed coverage. these premature paintings having to show one incubator medical stuff didn't have the resources to cope with them on an fearless john. and this is really forces of killed more than $200.00 people in the occupied westbank since the events of october, 7th, frustration is growing. one of the largest green spaces in atlanta,

georgia is being cleared to build a $19000000.00 lease training facility i for or the forward is the same that they want to join us all forward, sees across keesing, doesn't surprising the construction of domestic stream. it is the people that are talking about investing and social services that are considered extreme phone lines of what this means for the future of protest in america. now your terrorist on out you 0, there are some of the media stories, a critical look at the global news media, on how to 0, government shut off access to social media, the, [000:00:00;00]

the, the,

the, [000:00:00;00] the, you're watching the news, our life, or my headquarters in delphi and getting you navigate, here's what's coming up. in the next 60 minutes, the world health organization warns more people in gaza could die from disease, then that is really bombing. it's calling b is really destruction of friendship out hospital,