bergmann of gaza. we want to see this humanitarian pause extended. israel has been very clear that it is prepared to continue the pause and fighting for every day that her mouse releases an additional 10 hostages. the ball is now in her mouth as court. here in the halls of the united nations, it's clear that the pause and fighting was welcomed. but now worry, it was only temporary. and that if or when is real decides to resume its bombardment of gaza, will likely mean that more innocent civilians are killed. and a set back in diplomatic efforts. gabriel is on the i'll just see him at united nations in new york. the day of international solidarity with the palestinian people has been marked around the world in london and people from separate organization stage to walk out to mounting a permanent sci fi in gaza. sonya go yeah, go has more on this wednesday is the international day of solidarity with the

palestinian people and it's an opportunity for you and member states to be able to commemorate that solidarity with a cultural event. of course this, yeah, it is a more markedly some of the, a fact gathering here, the south bank in central london, an area which is an arts and cultural hub of people from several different creative organizations who have a range of look out to the mazda, the organizations that they work full off for permanent ceasefire in casa, i think it's a really important for us to protect the right to be able to speak, often speak out and not be scads. there's a lot of sense chip going on and there's a lot of fear around speaking out, especially if you work within an institution. and i think for those right now we want to be able to coal full permanency soc ceasefire. we want all government to, to box out. we wouldn't be institutions are funded by the government to talk about as well. this is not the only event that is taking place. there are multiple

accounts that are retiring at universities and colleges across the country, demanding a permanent ceasefire, but also calling for more to be done to protect those, working in the creative industries and the west bank and gaza. but also to protect journalists, the committee to protect and this itself has said that this is the most deadly conflict today. so in his records and that more needs to be done also around censorship. for those who are trying to raise awareness of what is happening in gaza itself and sonya jago, i'll just sarah london. that's it from us for now. more of a on the website i'm to 0 dot com. the news continues at the top of the hour, but 1st the street, the the, the,

[000:00:00;00] the, the war on gauze is being raised on the ground. and in the realm of public opinion, bring some of our core values to the test. one, does the silencing of supporters of palestine say about the world right now. what are the consequences of sizing voices at times of war? and these forces and this is the strain, the best bet, okay, was given to me by an employee of this building. they said they were told they could not wear this badge because it was the palestinian flag on

the speakers have been silenced, accounts have been removed, this is cancel culture. it appears many submit. it has been quietly fired from scream 7 due to her vocal support for palestine on social media. after susan surrender has been dropped by her agency. after some comment, she made a pro palestine really the article 19 of the universal declaration of human rights. weeds. everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression. but since demonstrations in solidarity with palestinians were temporarily band, and critics of israel censored, fired, or even detained for speaking their minds. many of us are left wondering if free speech comes at a price. since the last attacks and israel's war on good us up again in october,

it's gotten even worse. we reached out to many potential guests for this show. they declined our invitation for fear of more repercussions. thankfully, we were able to bring a group, a very important voices into today's conversation. rena workman is a law student at new york university. jack espy nose is a member of the new proxy on pick up with at least the new and to council this policy and a student and paris. and how many rabbani is a director of cage and advocacy organization based in london? a warm welcome to all of you. thank you very much for joining us today. jack, i would like to start with you. is that so to your students and parents who are part of the movements that attempted to take to the streets, to support a palestinian civilians in golf. but you were not allowed to do that. can you tell us a bit about what happened as well as soon as the tax on the gaza started the bombings . there was obviously

a lot of people in france and in paris to and i wanted to take to the streets, unexpressed, for solidarity. and while it was simply outlaw, uh, it's been uh only a few weeks since protests industries have been authorized by the government by the state. and at 1st, we had to fight against the banning of the protest. the 1st thing we have to do it and being with other organizations was taken to the court because we didn't want to let our solidarity be hostile. and this eventually works, of course, the 1st couple of weeks. it was a band also by the courts, but eventually to pressure of the streets of just how many people in every city in france wanting to protest through the solidarity, it became invaluable. and people started tickets in the streets. we had to fight police brutality to was a certain protest were police find hundreds of people and each of hundreds of yours, they took people into custody. and the repression of course is not over yet,

but we managed to express why. so they are already in the streets and now we still face a lot of refreshing, especially in workplaces and universities, but the fight is not over. we marked a certain point. oh, we'll definitely get to it to other forms of, of, of, of refreshing it. as you say, but for us is obviously very well known for organizing protest suite. and we say that it's in the french dna to demonstrate all the time. and wasn't the 1st time that you actually saw protests being bound. you know, obviously the french government has been on an authoritarian course for the past couple of years with police brutality, mainly dis, summer against the riots because of the races. the police that killed the 17 year old guy in france, and that was even much more police brutality actually, but summer, it's not a new thing, certainly not. but when we manage to push them back,

when we manage to make them afraid of being too brutal, it's when we're as many as possible industries. it's one where as many as possible in solidarity and fighting. but i think in those protests are obviously, uh, not isolated. and as you said, it's part of the dna. but it's also part of just the story of the cat last past couple of years. and there i've been with us before palestine also in the past couple of years in france, rena, in the us, the climbed down is taking different forms and a lot of it is playing out in college campuses. you were the president of the n y, use a student bar association with us until you posted a statement and supports of palestine. can you tell us more? yeah, so i'm a law student at n y u. and in my role as president, i put in a weekly column to our student bar association newsletter. and on october 10th,

i decided to use that column to express my own solidarity with palestine. within 24 hours. i had lost my job and by the end of the week, the administrators at my school had removed me from my duties as president. wow, that's, that's quite a response on how much i would like to turn to you. can you introduce the organization? you're representing here today. cage. can you introduce the work you guys do in, in just a few words? it? yeah, sure. thank you for having me. um, how organizations that human rights and jo ann operates as a watchdog on government policy. and again, in particular policy that's related to counter extremism counter terrorism. we've been documents that work. so who mentions the pallets? and what we've done is we've been assisting individuals. we have more than 153 cases in which we're going to feed on people from various backgrounds they face, but oppression and restrictions based on the public. so the downstream in the past

and same stuff starts with the war. have you received more calls for help? i oh, absolutely. i mean it shuts up completely because whereas most of our past work has been at the shop and all kinds of chairs and policy. and what we found is because it's a, it's almost like a whole society approach that's been implemented from top down. government policies dictated unconditional support to israel. and then what's happened is ministers. education to bong police all the way down to school, even implementing that policy. and teaches social work, his parents, children, or even facing a bunch of that, any expression of public school it out to get the kindest time is being faced with scrutiny and restrictions. oh well, we're off as a going to talk about the wider implications. but i want to go back to a point that jack has made to the factor in france and germany and austria. these

protests were initially banned by or forces. we some demonstrators actually arrested for waving the palestinian flag or simply for using slogans such as stop the war or a free palestine. i'm since then of course, many of these demonstrations these bands have been lifted. but i wanted to get your impression in terms of the atmosphere in these countries right now in the case of frost. what is the context like for even i don't know, organizing meetings and discussions about what's happening in gaza as well. the context is actually quite similar to what mohammad was just saying. every word in high schools and universities at the very local level, there are people obviously want to organize, wanted me to want to express their solidarity because they feel that the fight of the palestinians is also verified and they want to be with them. but we see, oh, the big climate of people being pressure, people are fearful,

sometimes of expressing simple solidarity opinions. and it's not for no reasons at all because there was a meeting about 40 students in the strasburg university who met up last week to discuss how they could mobilize for palestinian and a solitary. and the police came to the meeting and started taking pictures of the people, so that just to give an idea of the climate, it's a climate the presence of climate where it's tough to express. anything that doesn't go in the direction of what the french government wants, and it's not so different in berlin. it's not so different. and again, uh, we know what about in the us? can you tell us a little bit more about the atmosphere now? i mean, have you been able to defend your position? have you been able to, i don't know. even talk to your former employer about getting that job back. yeah. so i employer actually has not reached out to me and i was never able to defend my statement or say anything clarifying only about the statement because it all

happened so fast. and i think that, you know, even at the university level with my law school, we're still not seeing this kind of the ability for people to be consolidated with palestine without it being framed as you know, supporting terrorism or not carrying about civilian life. and i think that's really harmful because that's not what we're asking for. we're asking for, you know, human rights to be respected and in this like gruesome bombardment of gaza. and i just think those are very different things than what's being per trade and read into our statements a solitary. and we're not given the chance to actually clarify that it's just taking in very bad faith, actually what we're writing and what we're saying. and that's really unfortunate, especially on college campuses and exactly, especially in college campuses. and that is, that is supposed to be the space, right. a safe space for debate for the debate of ideas now. exactly. and i think it's even worse because we're seeing that, you know,

students at undergrad institutions, even in law school as well, but just the inability for students to do anything really and solidarity with palestine without heavy police presence, not just campus safety, but in new york we seen, you know, n y, p, d, b called to these universities to physically repressed students from showing solidarity whether that be in the form of protest rallies or citizens. and it's just a big hindrance to our ability to express our 1st amendment rights. we have those in the us and i think that right now we're seeing those being taken away. if you want to use those 1st amendment rights to show support for palestine. and i think that students, especially, should be able to feel like they have the space to find their voice and discover for themselves their opinions on issues. and those opinions should not be dictated

to them by the u. s. government by their university administrators. they should be able to learn and educate themselves and decide for themselves who they want to be in solitary with. and i think that's not what's happening right now is very interesting that you say that and the importance of defending this 1st amendment because also it's, it's so important to bring more context sometimes into this conversation. we also spoke to nathan for a jewish officer for says, criticizing israel is a lonely endeavor these days he told us how his latest book was received and the implications of having less space to discuss injustice and atrocity. in my book a day in the life of habits savannah came out on october 3rd 4 days before the october 7th attack. and or, and there were many jewish organizations that were interested in hosting me and having me and added together. we were traveling together and giving talks,

and some of them did follow through and did a continue to have a speak after october 7th. but many of them did not. and even those that did express great trepidation about it, they said that you know, in our community there's just not much openness to hearing this message. and we recognize the urgency of the message and how it's even more necessary now for us to understand what is the life of the palestinians leaving under is really rule. what are the reasons that we have not seen and the end to this occupation of over 5 decades, and that that space is really strong. the immediate implications are that it's much harder to a speak about this issue. be to understand it and see to, to have a, you know, public opinion move toward actually pushing for changes that will

address the core reasons that this conflicts continues. and this blood should continue. well, how many do you agree to the space for the base is actually shrinking and the, the idea of criticizing the government of israel being considered and to submit it actually is that's a very dangerous precedent to and is being used to silence voices across the world . yeah, absolutely, i mean the cases that we're dealing with we can go on, you know, struggle, factual evidence play. the pattern that you see is that number one, the cases of the society. number 2 usually involves allegations of anti semitism. and one, when you are clearly deep uh, and you have to wrap it, you realize actually the people who are being reported was simply criticizing as

well as a, as a scientist set the colorado state. oh, even less than by they was in the opposing genocide. the generous auto policy, but somehow those to find a good complaints interpret one of that somehow to the entry judge and had to submit tick. and then these innocent people are getting reported to the employee is sometimes the getting people to through the institution that they work. and if it's the and they just and i shouldn't have a service or the education industry. and then one particular disturbing patent that we've noticed is we go around a dozen cases with mosques in the u. k. have now being reported to the child to regulate. and if you can look through the cases, you find that the accusation is that these people have been making prayers and those prayers in dora to make a blog. and in those do i know how they said something we just have to submit to. so we've got your appointment with a sec,

you the nation state government is intruding on the private space of religious freedom and these must mosques have been reported to the regulator. they find themselves now dealing with the legal consequences. and so, so that's the pattern was inc. and another broad feature of what we think we can we, we realize is, and i've mentioned the 153 cases. but if you ask me how many of these have actually led to criminal charges for whole is less than 5, which means the effect is to create maximum publicity. creates an environment of lots of intimidation. to criminalize people get them both to get them arrested in some cases, but ultimately ultimately be there's no criminal defense being committed to. so a lot of these people, they're harassed through the system involved criminal justice,

but then found to be innocent. so that's the overall and that's being created a climate of intimidation in order to destroy people from public to showing sort of cavities. but as we've seen, the motor across western countries in the capitals is not working because people are still coming to help and develops. but how alarming is it for you? well, how about this, this tendency of this, this attempt at least to silence these voices, especially in countries that are supposed to be the cause of freedom of speech as well. the people because he's extremely stalled because you only have to go back to your maximum to use and you realize how the same societies deal with the dual credit and how all of that is framed. schools we mentioned the schools were encouraged to talk about and create some schools were encouraged to raise bundles for victims of vaccination,

but the exact same school was the exact same institution when it comes to the palestine situation where the innocent people are facing genocide. they're actually coming down and they're, they're being criticized and sanctioned, even in some cases, full nearly to think about the subject and public. so the hypocrisy stop the double standards are extremely c a. i'm in a sense, i think the public is, is now very much of a weight to the reality, the traditional media and the politicians and the others. they seem to be very, very kind of isolated at the moment because of the general mood on the streets and online and especially much younger people is that they can see through these people present double sided. it is just very, very clear. and there's simply these lines will be posted in people. all right, now i see you shaking your nording american note, can you, can you get us your, your take to? yeah, i think so, you know,

something i've been learning about this situation is this double standard. and i know that in the us, one of our non profit organizations, palestine legal, has done the palestine exception to free speech here. and so we're seeing this where, you know, some people can talk about these issues in other circumstances like in ukraine, other instances of war and genocide. those are fine topics to talk about. and then especially in the classroom, since we have all the discussions about the colonization and what that looks like and how you know, past atrocities are wrong and it can't happen again. and here's why. but when we want to talk about these issues as they happen currently, for example, in palestine, we are told that, you know, now is not the right time, or we're not educated enough on the topic to talk about it. and in fact, you know, universities have been actively suspending or prohibiting

a teaching events from taking place at all. so you know, we have palestinian speakers who want to talk to us about these issues that we do have the information and that we are educated on the topic. and instead they're being met with cancellations or rooms not being available to be reserved. and so i think this idea that you know, that some things are worth talking about and some aren't, is really harmful and it's very clear to students, you know, we come to these institutions to learn. and so when we're being told that some things you know, are worth learning about, or we're not allowed to learn about, we see that and it's not a hidden thing for us. and we recognize that for what it is. and i just hope that, you know, going forward these universities and these law schools understand that because we're students, we are very bright. we come to these institutions with a lot of qualifications. and we see that. and we're concerned that our,

our ability to learn is being tendered in this moment. uh huh. i also want to talk about the very concrete impact of losing a job which has happened to you all over the world. there were reports of people being fired from their jobs, which obviously has very concrete implications on people's livelihoods. we spoke to one attorney based in canada who posted on her linkedin, offering free legal aid to people facing academic or professional discipline. she told us what happened the day she put this up and well, you can do if your face has similar measures at work or at university. when i posted on linkedin uh, within 2 days i had received about 60 calls. and uh, in the weeks following, i received about 50 calls every day. um and although i didn't keep accounts so i must have been contacted by at least 200 or 300 people. and so,

and i continued to becomes like that to this day by people. the 1st thing i would suggest is that people get in touch with the local lawyer. and i don't say that just because i am a lawyer. i say that because it's a lot of the time this affects people's livelihoods, right. and it's incredibly serious to them, it can affect the future. and so i do recommend that people get in touch with a lawyer to figure out their options. and i say that because it is, it can be very scary. an isolated thing to be singled out called out. um, so speaking out about an issue um including an off house side its graham right now . so many countries um, save themselves as breed beacons of freedom of speech. and indeed in the last few years, there has been so much debate about freedom of speech where speech that's very fairly can be seen as hateful or repressive. has been justified as simply

free expression. and now in contrast, we have ordinary people, students, academics, football players, simply saying, we don't want palestinians to be killed. we want to cease via and somehow that is seen as hateful and not within the limits of freedom of speech. well, how many we're almost out of time would you have anything to add to what nora just . a there yeah, and we've seen the puzzle in every single control so close to across the europe. i mean, people are even at jobs right now we're supporting a painting shift search. and these, if i ask you to search and he's been suspended simply for some posts on the line. so it is a widespread, systematic policy. if you look at germany, you have only the other day. a n g o goes on to which was bad, right?

so overall that, that picture that isn't merging is a systematic repression. it also has to be said here as well. everyone is now completing be as little space in the, in the international ways calling international goals, which naturally will system. because it is quite clear that wisdom, governments and their political need is, can very publicly support magenta's auto policy with no one in percussion. so mean one, as i said before, made one the morning to meet the people to the condition of the citizens of these countries. they can see through that. so the media is complicity. genocide of policy is also being established, but we love the public opinion is shifting and he's real easily forgettable. oh, i saw you. oh no. i think there to oversee the dangerous statement of losing faith in international law. it is a part of a pretty big picture of the one we end the show with,

but i would like to thank you. none the less for joining us today. jack rena, and mohammed, thank you for your time and also of course, thank you for your courage. and thank you for watching. if you have a comment about this episode, you can talk to us on social media. if you have a conversation or a topic that you like to flag for us, this is very much your show and we're always open to your suggestions. you can use the hash tag or the handle a stream and we'll look into it. take care. and i'll see you soon. i the latest news as it strikes on the japanese refugee camp was so powerful that it uprooted the foundation of this multi story building with detailed coverage. these premature paintings having to show one incubator medical stuff didn't have the resources to cope with them on an 5th,

as john and this is really forces of healed more than 200 people in the occupied westbank since the events of october, 7th, frustration is crow thought provoking on sundays, but the patient doesn't have time to wait for the extremely unfortunate script. there are no quick wins and events or research hard hitting interviews. do you feel like america is less than that these days or is it just a different full? i think that democracy is a process basically, entities do you feel that the fraction is already starting the g 7 in the us on one side, china and the brakes on the other? i think there is a huge piece of that to happen here. the story on told to how does era the colleges we're

examining, the impact of today's headlines, exploring the funds of world class programming international. so make us involved class john and bring programs to inform and inspire on challenges. era. the one of the celebrations in the occupied westbank as a 6th group of palestinian prisoners release. the money in site. this is out. is there a life coming up? how much hands waiver? 16 mill captives who are being held in gaza? 7 women and 5 minors among those now in israel choice continue for an