of that, what they will do is that they will, per se, so i'm trying to find the among the communities because they say without the house, i'm down, you're interested in the me, off cleaning on the floor. it's funny many of those houses, sarah garza, you know, the news voters and venezuela have backed a government proposal, calling for an oil ridge territory controlled by neighboring gayana to be turned into a venezuelan province. venezuela has laid claim to as a feeble for decades. tensions with deanna have risen in recent months after the discovery of new oil reserves and region, as well as government denies using the referendum to justify potential. amex ation sunday's vote was known binding. the east african communities regional force has begun is withdrawal from democratic republic. of congo, of course, includes soldiers from canyon. you've gone to photo and d. and so, so then it was deployed to put an end to the violence in the east after the resurgence of the m. 23 on the group. but the company is government has refused to

renew its mandate. and economy has more from congestive a couple of minutes, the regional force begun. if you go from the democratic republic of congo on sunday morning, from the eastern regional for go mazda official here in the country quoted this for 2015 shall, failing to come by them 22. that was one of the activities. we don't need to be gone after our last meeting between the d. c. officials and this evening, but you know, so what did the arsenal focuses of the feel? so we knew the mind. that's what this for. so we can look at this friday, the same by 8. this will be due on the 4th is before the 1st will be november last here, when the heavy fighting rupture between them to the end of the, of the army decided on the east african communities subject to when they arrived was to help out government in order to restore peace to our country, but instead of restoring peace, we continued to suffer and the will continue in the villages with deployed the m. 23 continues to advance. despite the presence of sources of this type devices,

it is to destroy its forces to free the area of taken by the river offices and pull up the phone. and so what is this nissan with another problem to solve, don't of frequency, little mist community for many to go for the way i'm going on, south africa. and what are we this we've always will happen to know us will be listening to the country. i prefer to take part in the general election on december 20th. that's the in house told me that most people will not take part in this election. i've been with us out of the village is by the ongoing fighting between the rebels and the government forces. now leaving the display of combat house, the min telling us to go my here a little icon, it was just a, you can sell some, the democratic republic of coal brothers next to an officer that upfront on obviously that you can find more information in the website i'll just see it, i don't know about this and stay with us and i'll just the

this is the largest all evil processing problems in the occupied westbank, 50 full kind of studying farms bring that home is to be pressed into a product. this in a good year generates around $200000000.00. each of these tanks contains around 200000 liters of olive oil with a monkey. the value of around $300000.00 gives you a sense of just how we pull into the industry is to the palestinian economy. the bonus send you an agricultural ministry estimates around 40 percent of the harvest, including college scrolling calls will be lost because of an illegal is really settled. a white fence comes through a protest in all its growth as well as old, but still to be sure and comments to policy reform is to harvest that comes to the settlements this year. pharmacy as well as warrant garza is damaging the only the

industry like never before. after the october 7th attacks, israel vowed to eradicate from us no 2 months later, we'll look into whether that objective is possible. that discussion is coming up for the 1st since october, 7th, accusations of genocide and ethnic cleansing. i've been use to describe some of israel's and how much does action. but what do these terms actually meet and how can they be applied in the current situation in israel and the occupied palestinian territory? last, the former and the 1st prosecutor of the international criminal court is weeks headliner. luis moreno book, the louise moreno a couple. thank you so much for joining us on upfront a my better if i, if i, if, if anything was happens, how much is october 7th attack and israel's subsequent bombardment of guys that i have both been met with accusations of genocide and ethnic cleansing and various

other war crimes. but before we get into the specifics of these accusations, i wanted to ask you, if you could 1st sort of briefly define what constitutes a war crime. what, what crime that basically they find them by the geneva convention on now by the romans sideboards and they, basically, they are limits how solely is, could behave during the war. that is a war crime. then you have another type of crimes, crimes against humanity. and general side, clumsy and too many, did he say, why spread the or systematic attack again, disability and population? and that's why the, or how much is it comes again to my the but mean that issue and you've got a specific crime general side general side is and i've talked, this is a crime to be destroyed in the religious russian group. and i believe that's important because the general side, it's

a convention and is the convention that is required in the states bodies to prevent genocide? that's why genocide. so impulse then, because it or lead crunch of these crimes that they have these obligation not just thought enough to meet the crimes. the $153.00 states boxes of the genocide convention, including us and russia, an old, almost all of the countries who are committed to prevent and finally general side. that's why genocide is so important. how about ethnic cleansing? of some people have argued that what's happening, does the ethnic cleansing, how do you define it? and the crazy ethnic, i think you get by him. is it point and you can, i think is a nice expression, but he's not the crime itself. any clean thing is a warning use to avoid it. for the find something that's general side. why? because it, you're to go in your state, you had us and you say is

a general side. you have the duty to prevent is you say is that the green thing? nothing happened is okay. so let's, let's talk about this idea of genocide. according to the palestinian health officials. as of this recording, israel has killed over 15000 palestinians around 40 percent of that number are children, they bumped hospitals, schools refugee camps is really armies, bolts person, danielle, how gaiety, in fact, openly admitted that the quote emphasis is on damage and not on accuracy. and of course, this is all in addition to israel preventing nearly all food from coming in all fuels from coming in. uh people are given. this is a form of collective punishment. my question is, is there an actual genocide taking place? what, let me summarize at this time, that should be the reason why i base to believe because they lo isn't. we have nothing to the court of jack. this is where i'm standing. so if i am present,

you thought i thought the mitigation when they had to reinstall a base, it will be lead into how much if i conflict you have how much meeting war crimes, including today the whole such as if it were crime, crimes against humanity and the crime coming to on october, the 7 in these wrote, i'm probably the general side legal hama, having ventured to destroy e. riley's as a group. been evaluated, reaction is also included many crimes. it's complicated through the 5, they were crying because each moment being need to be evaluated. but there is something very clear that the siege of augusta, it says that its expect me nation or persecution as a graphic and to many the on is a form of genocide. i think the 6 feet or 2 seem to july convention define that. you will need to keep the people to commit genocide. the rules say

inflicting conditions to destroy the group. that's itself is a general site. so creating the siege itself is a general set. i'm definitely very clear these right one that each is very clear. and the intentions to this pro is the people that many offices from the government are ex printing genocide. that means the insurance. that why it is very easy to say . and the reason why i base to believe if i is coming to a genocide in guessing just on this each, then each bomb being each of the killings to be properly investigated. but come on, we have a really clear at this stage it says is a genocide, and otherwise the fits fire should not come from in the new general site. please. you talked about some mass also being engaged in war crimes. of course,

on october 7th, they killed hundreds of israeli civilians and a music festival. they also kidnapped civilians. these included babies, children, the elderly, the disabled. i mean, we can agree that pretty much fashion. those are war crimes. know exactly how much of the 7, if the war crime be with us, i can see the lens is it comes again to mind the because he's a is it this, is it plan back again? see we have a whole nation. does it genocide because the killings where it intended to destroy the group. and that's the general side. and that's why the october, the set it up that it will cry is it gives you money as a general fi. and the reason why, because the could you say that more about why this constitutes a genocide? i mean, some people have argued that they are engaged in an act of resistance intended not to destroy jewish people as an if needs to be nationality or race. but to defeat a nation state that is attempting to occupy them,

they defeating an occupying power where i mean friends it because when i was a put together, i will he more than for 2 years in the, by the sign he's right. confident that why it's what i mean so painful to see what's happened today because the cold and i remember how much send to me at the professor working with them. and he happened to me that come, i believe jewish people should not be in by this time, not just about protecting godsa. how much really they shouldn't be not jews in, in, in, by the time that why for them killing the jewish in in the is why it is. but it's is part of this tribe issue and, and that's it. and so it's a general side, because even if it is a, it's a, it's a dog thinking this to try to throw a group. in this case, you're at least in, by this time. uh, okay, uh, how much charter uh, was updated as you know in 2017, this is an update from the 1988 charter and it, uh, they explicitly state uh,

mass of firms that is conflict with design is to project not with did use because of their religion, how math is not way to struggle against the jews because they are jewish, but wages the struggle against design is too occupied palestine. i'm not here to argue whether that's true or not. but if we were to assume that that were true for a moment with that, then notify the argument of genocide as a legal matter. when i say i am is as a stand the stand that it's, it's not the highest resort based to believe that this time that describes an investigation. and i go to with that, that enough for me, the generals i should be investigated, indicates a harmless. maybe they adjusted. maybe they the, now i'm not trying to guide me, but these have been found that they won't do this to kill his people, to remove the spell that they eat, riley people from the land. so that is for me that provide reasonable to

believe that is a general site. i'm not saying it's a big shot. they go back to point to convict one of the how much lead the for general side. you read it but try out. you need to offer the how much would either be for you to explain his arguments and present evidence, and then the judges to convict punched on we have a hygienist done that they had to go to be under the dog started. that is high. the stuff that i like i'm talking about of the things i've always been wondering about is palestine is a member of the i see, see how mass could be prosecuted for we. busy crimes a under that premise. israel however is not a signatory to the eyes. you see and it has not ratified the rooms that you. so what jurisdiction does the isis you have to investigate and, or prosecute is real, read the interaction going back or how stupid eviction in got set? what's bank and it's it. so then that goes along br office step in my time. and the

in 2021, the court accepted that's called the mitigation, helps happy mitigate, conduct everything got set with back. and instead of selling that mean, any kind of we didn't this basis for any purpose. so it could be mitigated by the domestic and had gotten that why is right committing crimes in got that could be mitigated by you guys are going to court. and i would suggest for me, even so important what's happening. got that which is massive, and what's happening with bank the go to west bond is that the more influence that means that security of a via and i'm a shock this mind, this is mean to secure the, the personal with me, difficulties read today. these have on full say inject that he might have sold the because it was an extremist. is it mine who was investigate that? convicted for hates. so mine, excuse me, to settle that is providing web up

a set thread and, and running activities in with band field. and they've got me that way for me in the same way. if so, pinning an, an offer. what's happening? yes. a, you think category that in, in what value there's no more environment because this pets on the meat of security has in for that it's running web of the set to live. and in fact, yeah, almost, i understand more than 200 people to so doesn't wait for me. yes, that is one offered scenario. but with buying, it's a very important done on the particular be best sudden should it's a mart been good beer in particular, be investigated for it for more crimes. we thought of given shooting me to get to add some of the yes i'll put on the, on what he's doing by the web of defective. if he in fact then said that the violence, i read that he, he was using the police to, to crash the meeting of the family meeting with

a those with me. but i did from jail. i know so that the information they are now assign beeping and got thread the in, in westbank. so all of these activities should be mitigated and prevent that stuff . it. in march 2023. the is the issue. didn't arrest warrant for russian president vladimir putin. russia, however, is not a signatory to the court. and aside from the warrant, restricting fruitless travel, the countries that are signatories if basically faced no consequences. the. so give me, i think they really do anything to prosecute non members, can anything actually be enforced of what you got on this time then for as many of the core decisions on the device you're getting that conversation is in the hands of the states. so but if the and booting was invited, i know no one is actively dental ref. he mouth, he couldn't, he got to stop flying to south separate guy or going to breast see because he brought as soon as i was, i think it could that rescue him. and in fact, that's how big was present. but she's when i am diversity and by suitable general

side is he went to south africa to show he's pretty. but he had this case because a judge of i was, i think i ordered the redskins. so that resting is the most complicated thing. but the 1st question was kind of just investigated? was bank crimes? absolutely. yes. they've gotten in that people the opposite. the yes i read thing is a different matter, but my point is i just is doing what is to do and it's very important, but it's keeping a little is it a lot of the thoughts cannot be the 1st thoughts. so with that or they feel we are lacking is the commitment of the dimension of the community, including the biggest states to, to make a right. how about sort of pick the little look since september at the un, a minus so on. but eventually general side, the side of that, think about 5 genocide, i'm going in 2 months. so that's why the problem is today. this day the states have

no respect and the boundaries. and we can see if any say shouldn't, we're not just giving individuals, they can guess at one west bank or an in, in, in a menu. we're kidding. see the station. and why not just about ease riley's or a means or about a full b bill or the degree between c a, b, or drawing? yeah. in, in the a model, it's about 3 minutes. asian, we're going to cut faster. so it's time to change the game. we need to leave, it's not just a blessing to the judges list. moreno a comfortable thank you so much for joining me on upfront. thank you. the one of israel's responses to the october 7th. the tax was to promise to permanently destroy from us nearly 2 months after the attacks. the group that has ruled guys and for the last 16 years still seems to control large parts of the enclave. and some are questioning whether israel's goal is even achievable. and if i'm asked, would it be toppled?

the question remains whitfield, a power vacuum. joining us to discuss this is deanna. bluetooth is around the love based lawyer and former spokes person with the palestine liberation organization and a highly them again, the senior fellow at the middle east institute in washington, dc. i wanna thank you both for joining me today. then i'm gonna start with you, since october 7th, israel has consistently reiterated about to destroy from us. it's estimated that her mazda has 30000 fighters at least, and buy these really armies own records in its own account. the air strikes me attacks of killed somewhere around $1.00 to 2000 how much fighters, given the level of destruction that we see so far, given the current situation on the ground, is a military victory for is really impossible. you know, but that's not what they watch it from the beginning mark. their idea of destroyed him. us is code for destroyed casa, and anybody who's been watching those knows that this is what exactly what is real means. and that's why you see that the vast majority,

62 percent of those have been killed, are pulse any and children under the age of 18 and women. and so all along their attempt has never been to destroy him. ask because they know that that's not achievable. how math is not just a minute, it's not just a political parties and it's an ideology as well. but his dad is code for destroy garza and that's exactly what it is that they're doing. but that's an important point valid. and it's something that the very famous for now and even posting in historian on a sheet of valid he said, he said, then i quote, a mass will remain as a political force whether these really is occupied guys, or leave destroy from us as a political institution. destroying her mass as an idea is impossible, right? but why? well, the, the idea of how mass, of course, is how much as the site make resistance movement. so they haven't assignments the idea ology, but their primary focus is resistance resisting occupation. refreshing a by, by israel. and so you'd expect that when you have

a system of structural violence like an occupation which can only be maintained through a through violence, you're going to get violent forms of resistance. and that's, that's an you never ability. if it wasn't called how much that would be called something else, and it would be, have more or less the same way because those are the conditions that palestinians live under. that that's an important point. deanna and, and i get that at the philosophical level, but there's also a political question, very practical political question that we also have to ask, which is, uh, is there another party right now that could step into govern even if some us were to be defeated and i asked that question more to get a sense of what's going on on the, on the ground and what the, what the kind of political climate is. so i'm trying to get a sense of sort of what the possibilities are a. well, that's a great question mark that the problem is that there is no political party that's going to come in on the back of it is really change. in other words,

they're not going to come in and take over and rule or do anything. and garza based on what is the destruction that israel has huge on, on the gaza strip. and so instead, the question that we should be asking ourselves is, what comes afterwards that palestinians end up deciding not whether it is the united states deciding or israel deciding. but what is that the palestinians want? will it be how much? maybe, maybe they want out. it's not entirely clear, but whatever it is, whichever group it is, however, groups may be more than one group. it has to be posted in lab and not american driven, or is rarely driven or even internationally driven by capacity, palestinians who finally get the ability to choose how it is that they want to live in the end and not based on is really dictates given what you've seen in which you're hearing a has come, i've seen a loss of support on the ground,

given the destruction that we've seen at the hands of he's really government given the fact that some argue that you know, some of it was foreseeable, has almost lost support you know what the opposite customer needs know? who's dropping the bomb? so we know that it is israel who's dropping the bonds and that's not how may i ask, who's dropping your bones? and if anything people are saying that that they're supportive of the resistance, that is the resistance, that's the only thing coming in the way between a, between israel and the complete destruction of the house and, and people are complete annihilation. why did they say that? because on october 6th, as you recall the day before, there was nobody ever talking about about liberating health. so, and in fact, the diplomatic community had dropped to the issue so much so that, that everything that israel was doing was, was barely met with something called great concern on the part of the international community. if the choice was to die, a very slow to where nobody is watching, which is what the israel is wanting to do, or to push back and to have at least the world recognized the brutality of these

really machine that yeah, i mean, i think a, you know i actually have a slightly different take i, i think israel is trying to destroy from us. i think they think that they can destroy on us. um, it comes from a this, this notion like all colonial powers. they don't fully appreciate the grievances they don't recognize the grievances of the people that they occupier rollover. and so they see palestinian politics is sort of an artificial construction. and, and these groups can be excise the in the same way that they were, that they think that they were created. so they can be surgically removed from, from the other being so high non surgical in there. and they're just generally maybe some. so what would you, would you say that then the palestinian people, the children who are dying, the hospitals that are being blown up, or just sort of collateral damage that they're willing to accept?

or is it a both and situation with wouldn't destroy from us? and they want to destroy the guy in the street. i think it's about, i think they want to destroy from us and the gaza strip. i think they are operating on the basis of rage and revenge. still. it now, more than a week's in that has been to the primary motivator. so much so that they've given a barely any thought at all to what comes next. and we know what happens when you have a security vacuum and the governance vacuum. you get, you get violent groups fill that void, you get a extremists, you get more radicalization. so it's not only in a humane the way israel is conducting itself. it's actually quite stupid if they care at all about their own security because it, it absolutely will come back to haunt them. to help me think about what the future looks like for palestinians in as the associated press reporting that israel's offensive is turn the airy into a quote on inhabitable moons scape,

the u. n. estimates that 1.7 is a standing number to me. 1.7000000 palestinians and guys that are newly homeless, even if a permanent ceasefire, would it be put in place today at this very moment to borrow the words. one guys and professor people have nothing to return to the next. they've been mentioning the psychological impact that a siege has had an a complete c just having right now on the, on the people of guys that uh, what will it take to rebuild? it will take more time and money and effort than anything we've ever seen in the context of the occupied palestinian territory. israel's actions are moving in a certain direction. they are moving toward the permanent displacement of that 1600000 palestinians. it said that it's impossible for them to remain in the

south of gaza forever. right. is just too crowded and, and there are no services. and so i think very much the, the ultimate goal is to push them out of gaza. and that's where the real danger is . daniel, what do you say? what does it take to rebuild as a and also who's responsible for doing it? would you be paying? is israel. um, who's gonna end up? probably paying will end up being likely the europeans. but who should be actually physically doing it is how sydney is wanting to rebuild our own places and spaces. but what we've got to look like afterwards that this is the question that keeps many of us up at night. because we haven't seen the end of this. i remember a few weeks ago on your show, i think the 7 weeks ago on your show, you had that daniel yolanda on the show who very clearly stated that house and should be moved into the egyptian side opposite peninsula. in other words, what they are looking for is ethnic cleansing. they want to get rid of palestinians

. but i do want to address something about the destruction of having us. i think that israel knows very well that it can't destroy from us. they're not looking for security, they're not looking for it at all. if they were the formulas there, but it's dead. they looking costly to perpetuate this so that it creates this mindset inside israel. that they're, that they're not say and increase the mindset in the outer world that they're not save as well. and therefore, more money flows, more security, more weapons and so on. i think it's real knows full well what it's what it's doing and it know still well that it cannot just recognize that this is simply code for destroying gaza. just showing how students enforcing is released to forever live under under the gun that have to be our last word. dana boots are thank you so much for joining us. kind of that. i'm going to thank you so much for joining us as well . everybody that is our show upfront. we'll be back the

the latest news as it breaks this attack has been described by ukrainian president fellow demand. lensky is an act of terrorism with detailed coverage. obviously, they has promised to reform the origins faith and improvements of therapy measures . people here fear of this well impoverished the population from around the world sketch males. this wants to be 5 minutes of old people for the after 25 years of competing against migrants and asylum seekers. some save this, new toe doesn't sound convincing. so many politicians want to be the republican party's candidate for the any stand a chance against donald trump. if our planet is burning and we're running out of time, why are we doing more to deal with climate change or american politics? just getting to life intuit screen for most americans, the quizzical look us politics. the bottom line. humanity is open, the gates of hell or in those seats is having orlando's effects. as the world

discusses how to reduce emissions. supposing an existential threat to humanity, a new oil rush is displacing. you've got the people empower, investigates, the relationship between the mikey oil giants of the global notes and the developing nations of the global south. crude mistake. talk to one of 2 on the jersey to the the if it was military, it says it's expanding is running defensive to the entire gaza strip as it step something bombardment, at least $700.00 pounds finance have been killed since the this is all the 0 live from dough home also coming up, found

a simians continued to free sizes in search of space states. as these really minutely says, the intensity of attacks and southern gaza. boom.