a business as a content creators have become journalists, rescuers, heroes, and targets tier 2 customers in a sofa and a visa come to me. and yet they continue to report that because of this is the story of just want to be had be let me know if it had been higher for the levels because on that it just either as well as war on guns. i have found an area with an intensity the military and let's say, hasn't been seen since the 2nd world war. most of the women were you supplied by the united states. is this 4 different to one of those in terms of a scale in space? this is inside storage, the

hello welcome to the program on top of the crime. israel's war on garza has killed more than 17000 palestinians, injured tens of thousands and fullest, almost 2000000 people from their homes, many of which have been destroyed. palestinians comp leave gaza. the narrow strip of land say it is not only one of the most densely populated areas in the world. but now one of the most boomed some of the tree unless side the scale of israel's attack succeeds. that of other men is trunks in modern history, such as the allied forces, destruction of tristan and germany in world war to the civilian death toll and the right i would stop being killed, has also not been seen in modern times. how much of the wave and re israel used is supplied by the us, which is called for the protection of civilians. is that pulse simple, or is it

a deadly contradiction with palestinians, the victims? we'll be discussing that without guess and just a few moments. but 1st this report from since in monahan on israel is weapons of death and gaza. israel score and gaza has caused major devastation around 70 percent of buildings in the north. the strip are in ruins. more than 17000 palestinians have been killed. and around 85 percent of gauze is 2300000 people have been forced to move some from their hospital beds. many countries, including the united states, have cool them israel to do more to protect civilians. israel has the most sophisticated one of the most sophisticated militaries in the world. it is capable of neutralizing the threat posed by him us while minimizing harm to innocent men, women and children. and it has an obligation to do so. europe in nato member countries such as the u. k, italy and germany are among those who supplied israel with the weapons used in this war. but israel's main military and financial factor in the united states. that's

been the case since its creation with widespread support for both democratic and republican administrations. u. s. provides israel with miller $38.00 or $3800000000.00 every year. much of it is used to by states of the art weapons in the early days of the war. us president joe biden assured israel it would receive everything needed for the campaign against them. off the united states stands with israel. we will not ever fail to have her back. we'll make sure that they have the help their citizens need. and they can continue to defend themselves. while international criticism is growing, is really showing little sign of changing its tactics or strategy. and since the beginning of the war, the us is only strength and support. vince and monahan for inside story as well. let's look at the scale of israel's war on gaza. this whole file exceeds that of

previous conflicts. there. for example, in 2014 is riley forces killed about 2200. tell us the news. when is attacked to the strip compared to the war and you cry and we have roughly 10000 civilians have been killed in nearly 2 years. and just 2 months, israel has killed more than 17000 palestinians. these were the army, uses a wide range of weaponry, some uh, precision weapons such as small bombs and missiles launched from helicopters and guided to the targets. but all those are intended to destroy large areas and penetrated reinforced structures. these riley army has dropped 900 kilogram bottoms on gallons of during this war. according to the wall street journal, the u. s. has provided 100 of these known as bunk combustible items. okay, let's bring in now gets now in pittsburgh, pennsylvania is colin clock research director at global intelligence and security consultancy. the saw find group and boss in the u. k. is patrick barry,

the defense and security analyst at the university of boss and in london. the sample i freeman a research coordinator at campaign against tried in the u. k. thank you very much for joining us on inside stories that i will call in. if i can begin with you, can you just give us your initial thoughts on the scale and this of, of destruction in gaza in terms of the number of civilians killed in a very short space of time. how would you characterize what is happening at the moment? a yeah, it's a massive and overwhelming humanitarian catastrophe. i think in the introduction you mentioned 17000 civilians killed, which is just an unbelievable loss of life. uh, the images that we're seeing every day from gaza or heart wrenching and i think, you know, as the u. s. secretary defense lloyd austin, spoke about recently these rallies,

whatever tactical victory they're getting will come at a strategic loss because of the images that the world seeing on a daily basis. and i think i completely agree with the secretary of defense, austin, i think a lot of what's happening right now is counter productive. and this hot to eliminate or destroy or rather get come us. uh, you know, at what cost is, but i would ask you a picture if we can just continue on with with that. so the strategic last that as well could sorta here. i mean, israel is constantly right from the very beginning of this was said that it's, i'm is 21 come off the face of the us from a military perspective. i mean, is this ariel bowman campaign that we've seen for 2 months now? is this the right way to go about trying to do this? but it's easier. why is natal, i'm, i'm, you know, on the, i know, i elation strategic game is called on his point that i had earlier you know, all how to do a survive in some form. and that one is not sure. and it's very hard to completely

eradicate any terrorist groups the, you know, 20 years at least to show a. so, and that's up there. bombardment. yeah, it's easy way to do it at the stand off, obviously, as maybe the intelligence was call it not being here from numerous different reasons. so there, there are eyes and ears, and so the guy has the strep are not as good as of work, as it was at one point on them. and as a result, you, you select your sign off munitions, new, bombard the heavy, realizes you mentioned down the us to keep your, your thoughts rolling. i'm, i'm currently again the targeting the targeting sales here. and the crucially the idea what this hinges on this bombardments and he's intense isn't times in relation to low, so it's intense in relation to what we saw happen, and search. it's intense in relation to the from the bottles and mario paul and an ad hoc move probably on a similar intensity. but the difference for those are of a nice bottles with this. most of the civilians are left. yeah. and they're being called at or us to get people that that's the cruise. and so that's why we're seeing 2nd we,

it's incredibly densely populated area of highly urbanized. so when you're in your introduction, when you talked about the same kind of damage to buildings as the 2nd world war. yeah, it is. but there's a, there's a, there's a and i've had them in tier of everything being condensed, which is, which is actually adding to it as well. doesn't excuse me, but of how to start to explain some of the reasons why we're seeing. so i put casualty and destruction that was, but also it comes back to this idea of that, munitions that they're selecting on the principles under know of our conflict with your bank proportionality, which must be balance the risk. disobedience must be buttons to the concrete and direct military gains to be made from taking that action. and that's ultimately for audio from the lawyers to understand after they've been attacked. yeah, those, those about idea of proportionality is not actually written down exactly what that should be. so in the targeting cells, they draw a radius, is that right? and right where they think they are, they can say that we didn't think there were that many civilians that they can say

that there's some us come out or is incredibly important and therefore we're selecting or there's a phone call there and we're selecting a 2 phase and, and, and they can drop it on it. and if it kills, you know, uh, 10 civilians, a 100 civilians. you know, these ratings are just like, well, we went through the process of course, and i'm going to run a cold. and i want to pick on a pick up on one thing that petrik was talking about there. i mean, is this campaign from is where i leaving actually working at this point in time because according to the as rarely, military of the 60000 thomas 5 is that i believe an hour and guys of up till about 5000 of them. that's on the roughly about 16 percent up to 2 months. what do you make of how effective the campaign has been to this point in time as well? you know, i was actually just this morning reading an article from robert paid in for an affairs. one of the world's leading experts on air power and, and course of power. and, and, you know, i agree with the thesis of the article,

which is the campaign is not working this far in this many weeks into the conflict to, to be at this point a, to me it's clear that what's started as perhaps, you know, strategic military objectives has potentially more offend to revenge and vengeance and collect the punishment. some would argue, as pape does in the article, so, you know, be around a kid in $530000.00 from us military. not a total surprise to me, you know, given the infrastructure and guys are given the tunnel network. but this is hard fighting. this is dense urban warfare. and i think, you know, if you think about some of the high ranking homeless commanders, they were likely shuttles out of the country into potentially loving in into iran, elsewhere before the actual attack on october 7th. so these really are not going to be able to replicate from austin, and that says nothing about israel's military prowess. this is one of the most powerful militaries in the world. it says more about, you know,

the feasibility of completely eradicating terrorist organizations. so i think the aims and objectives need to be properly scoped, and israel needs to immediately to begin thinking about how to attach it to military strategy, to some kind of a political outcome renegotiate settlement because that's the only way this is actually going to end. yeah, is sam, i want to go see you now. i, i know you and your organization had been investigating the items that are being supplied to is right. and what have you found so far and has anything surprised you? it was a lot of the us on straight to israel is well known as your report to said o b across the the, the fix we can come back to across that israel uses in garza the 55. so that's sixteen's come from the us along with a lot of the munitions. and since october, 7th,

the us the supplied by december 1st around 15000 palms and 57000 artillery shells. according to media reports that includes those 100 bunk, combustible items, and that impact was cool about israel, of course, produces a lot of its own. but of course, the loading straight has a very wide, an international supply chain. so a lot of companies and countries are involved in the production of act off like the 16 and f 35 with the f 35 the the stove, bytes of the u. k in particular produces 15 percent of the value of every ashcroft produce, including those that go to is vile. this includes things like the, the via fuselage, the a lot of electronic systems of the in check to see uh all sorts of

system of subsystems. and we actually go on the freedom of information request, a list of all the u. k. companies that are involved in this program. and it is, it is dozens of companies that are involved. now, we don't go into any new f 35, so been supplied since the most stuff it but combat draw, especially in, i mean it's kind of a pain like this. need a constant supply of spat pots. so undoubtedly, all the truck that israel has is going to gain continually needing new spazz from or from all or most of these companies involved in this international supply chain . i want to go to you now patrick, you touched on this a little bit before, but can you just give us a little bit of historical context?

i mean, how does this compare? you mentioned most of it, how does this compare with other foaming campaigns that we have seen over the last few decades? well yeah, most of us the direct comparison because in the 1st week of the is randy response, they dropped more bombs. i think it was states that isn't that in the us of this coalition partners dropped against the ice southern above a bottle of medicine in the move. and so that, that's in the heart of the, you know, have it adds up to something raisins as a 6 years ago. um, you know, in terms of like, or the fair, what we're seeing is becoming more organized as more, more cds. they're more densely populated. and tomorrow these are actually some. busy owner and so more for and the advantage to the defender means that it cover lapses in these areas, which makes it very, very destructive. we've seen a lot of destroyed mosul destroyed, start destroyed, and we see, and as i mentioned, mario paul and unbox moved. so it's happening in a more, a broader trend of more of an ice board fair. and i think on unfortunately for all

those stuck in gaza, it's a particularly, as i mentioned, densely populated, densely urbanized and therefore more useful environment. as i mentioned, again this, this concept of proportionality, which is obviously, you know, for example, i served and asked on the side of the british army and we, in 2008. we were in a fairly pretty rough place to go sign in where we took a lot of casualties and halfway through the jura to just stop today, you'll didn't casualties. we weren't allowed to fire easy one minute. these are more towards any more and, and they're fairly small in terms of lease, obviously, because i'm calling in a $105.00 millimeter guns. this, is that, or you know, an order of magnitude way below. watch a lot, lot lot of is right. are using at the moment and actually the situation which is relatively same or it was a high intensity time for insurgency campaign. but again, a secretary lloyd said, you know what we were trying to do. there was separate the insurgents,

the bar code towel up on essentially from the people as best because i'm the is rarely this is completely lacking as color mentioned, that it's just creating a counterterrorism nightmare i would say for the next decade in the region and beyond. and uh and so, you know, another course instead of stand off air power kind of being, especially in the 2nd phase after the cease fire could have been much more court on this, on a tear start to gain the intelligence picture you need. you can be showing it promised in use in their reward funds or from us after this year after what would be more of them in the, you know, and not in their name but um, and start to build the intelligence picture again and use your special forces in surveillance advantage, which you're going to need to build up again to basically get in there on the 13th for the grades that i'm off the military wing, especially as to absolute minimum that you can. yes, colin or fatigue has countries have to sort to bomb their enemies into submission,

but also to try and share to a civilian morale. i mean, the theory is that when push the breaking point populations what you've rise up and, and get pushed back against their own governments. well, i mean, we have seen that not with, with russia bombing you crying that obviously hasn't been worked. there didn't work . when the germans bones the u. k. and world war 2, when the allies bones germany extensively and we'll go to as well. do you think that there is any chance of it working here? it just flies in the face of the empirical evidence that we have on counter insurgency. i spent 10 years at the rand corporation, i think tank in the united states, and was lucky enough to be able to have several years carved out and devoted my time to studying every single insurgency from the end of world war $2.00 to 2009 out of $71.00 in total based on our coding schema. and we found that historically what we called an iron fist approach,

which is certainly what the as rarely as are pursuing at the moment, is counter productive. and actually the counter and surgeon step pursue that approach. so my call is, you know, scorch stairs. they lose more than they when, so they're actually seating the advantage to their adversaries. and i'm us. and i would just echo something that patrick said earlier, when you know netanyahu, and the idea came out very early on in the conflict and said that the stated goal was to completely eradicate a moss. they essentially did moss, a huge favor. it was a strategic communications failure on the as well as far as, as patrick mess mention all mosse needs to do now the, to declare victory. and i put, you know, quotation marks around victory is survive. and that's certainly something they're going to do. the question is, is it best from us going to survive? we know that's the case. how you know, how much impact will have must be. yeah. when all of a sudden don't smoke, there's an in what form will will they continue? the same. you mentioned, we talked a little bit about bunk of bombs and the us a supply of what it comes to wall street journal,

100 to as well. can you just explain to people who might not know exactly what they are, just how deeply and how wide spread the destruction can be from just a single bunk, a single bunk of bomb. and i, i, i loved it. best on the, on the precise least, solid e of different munitions. but these are, as we towed 900 kilograms, 2000 pound bones. um and so that is an enormous amount of destructive pilot. and what as of about the positive side is a very, very densely populated area. and we have seen cases like engine bali, u g come with a single strike as killed dozens, if not hundreds of palestinians at one most, the civilians wouldn't go. we don't know if those couples busters, but at any rate, the munitions that israel is using a clear they

a big enough to cause such, actually devastating, totally disproportionate dest, an injury, and destruction loads. and i'm responsible that my colleagues have a been talking about israel. if it's right, let's go is milk tree the tree of the how much that strategy doesn't make sense. but this as sub rule is, right? the ministers, the members of the connect set to been saying, if that goal is to actually deep, populate gods to make the entire costs a strict on live for both and falsely population into each. it then kind of does make sense. okay. i guess because the is a supplied by the united states. patrick, i mean is giving israel these weapons is the us explicitly endorsing the use? and then i guess we take it to step full. the fear of the is the us complicity and

any civilians that a killed by the as rarely use of us weapons. yeah, well just on the, on the bulk of poster and things. so usually when they do these weapons tests, they do it if they're trying to work at the pharmacy, they usually do them in the open, right? so it's obviously more e, solid, and urban, lots of buildings collapsing, arrange a bulk of booster. uh, normally as far as i understand, depending on the payload, what, how the, the so what we call in the, in the british ministry at least the last area of at least a 100 meters radius. so that, you know, draw that around to my get the diameter. and so just saw not, yeah, no god, it's an interesting one. clarity, there's different from color might be better. uh, you know, position speak about the inside the, by the administration to me. but i think that cer, certainly different people pulling in different directions about what should be done here. and all that body seems fairly clear that he's gonna stay steadfast in a support for his rock. certainly, you know, the us has a lot of leverage here, but wanted to use and, and of course, you know, where does it get to?

it's all your know, what it is real got. it's i and i miss solve this problem. for example, to protect itself is to us, so i think the wheels will come off the wire and all that they do have an indigenous are the, you know, big indigenous uh, industrial military, industrial facilities. the, i think the, the wheels would come off the wagon on terms of the air campaign pretty quickly if america decided that, that enough was enough. right to kill. and i will throw it over to you. then. i mean, how much pressure is on the uses to scale back uh the, the amounts of money in width and is that it is giving, is israel, i guess it depends of pressure from home the united states, when you look at the domestic politics here is getting pulled in 2 directions, you've got a, you know, the, the evidence to support as real, particularly in an election year. at the same time. if you look at the younger voters, gen z and below, the demographic show that you know,

that kind of demographic is unhappy with buttons handling tend to be more pro palestinian and pro is rarely so you know, i think the administration is trying to read the tea leaves read the polls here, but instead of playing politics, the more important than the moral thing which has to be to do with right. and to apply maximum pressure on the as rarely as to limit civilian casualties. and to, to not drop that as a talking point, right? this isn't just something on a checklist that you go down and say, oh yeah, you know, we should mention that as well. uh, this is a central right, because the united states is associated with this conflict. and if you look at the numbers dead, this is not something that's going to fade from the headlines. this is more of staying on the united states. and so i think if the administration can wield influence and we know that it has in the past, it needs to do so and it needs to continue applying that pressure and not stop. and sam, amnesty international, and i'm sorry, petri to on to jump in there. i was just going to jump into, i think,

all so you know, if this has been happening and, and you train and obviously terrible things that happens in ukraine and at the rest of the times in terms of ukrainian civilians. but if this was happening and you find the western condemnation would be much higher. and i think we, you're looking at a position where the more crime scene should be put on the table and kept on the table. then if you cannot, you know that we will come to your lawyers and we will come off your target yourselves and it should be back by the goals, things as well. who for, you know, all intents and purposes are still pretty quiet. they've been helping some of them in helping the negotiations, but the general consensus seems to be to box this problem to box best they kind of get on with, you know, building their economies that the model itself and i think internationally or can be done. yep. okay. similar as we've seen in. yeah. and in the last few days, i'm just the international put out a report saying that is wrong. does need to be investigated for possible war crimes . is that something that you and your organization agree with the absolute take of, of, of course, old will crimes, but the, by his violin from us must be investigated. but there is

a wyoming evidence that israel has been committing more crimes. the blockade on food, water is it so i will try misses, collective punishment without doubt. indeed, as a case the what israel is doing on many international lawyers, you know, much more about it than me. the what is rails doing could actually be cost as genocide. and the united states especially, but also k germany and offers the to on the israel can also potentially in the talk for aging. and the best thing for crimes by supplying these weapons, continuing to supply weapons and components in the full knowledge of what israel has been doing and going to continue to do and so think, i mean, the child says that joe biden would ever actually be arrested, improved behavior vanishingly small?

yes, thought. i think the american officials, british officials, alms company officials who are making these trends, shipping option that backs legally. because the possibility that they could be in the frame for aging and investing more crimes in gaza is i think that reveal, or at least it ought to be. okay. cool, and we've got a couple of minutes i wanna finish with you. is this or i guess how does this in this israel going to be allowed to continue bombing until it's hans content? do you think i to allow by whom, again, you know, who, who's the ultimate arbiter of, of this conflict? so i think unless the is really is make this decision to stop it. it's not going to my question is you know, to what and what are the games is that capturing and killing every time. also i value target. 1 is a, you know, totally attempting to decimate almost as military infrastructure is that even possible? and again, i'll go back to what i've been saying. so it's essentially october 8th,

unless this military approach and campaign, an operational objectives are tied to some kind of political element. then it's all for not because this really is have a term for, for what they've been doing, which is mowing the grass. right. and this, this can't go on any further to do this every couple of years to have these all out conflagrations in the region. there's gotta be some kind of in, and i think unless there's a, you know, a sustainable political solution here coming out of the back end of this fighting will be back here the year from now, you know, 18 months from now though there will be no end okay, thank you so much. oh sorry patrick. do you want to jump in the very quick. this is kind of sad thing to my that part is for the exact thing around the the poles there . where, where do you send it? maybe it's actually just to, to drive the might there. okay, thank you. we've run out of time that we really do appreciate you joining us here on inside story calling clack petrik barry in san pill. i friedman, thank you. well,

thank you as well for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website, l, just air adult. com. and for further discussion goes, well facebook page, that's facebook dot com forward slash ha inside story. you can also join the conversation on x. i'll handle is add a inside story to may tell mccrae and the whole team here 5 and the of what you're looking at. this is one of the breach points through which how much flight just came into it as well. warning sirens. here is a s like some slight y'all just has remarkably intensified during the last couple of hours. we've seen these as strikes really concentrated on residential phones and residential buildings. there's a dangerous times regional spillover, of course,

as long as the conversation here is a minute inside the hospital then without oxygen, without electricity, the beavers inside. they are dying. for now, less than an hour away from the official start of the ceasefire. 50 feet caps its full feet really over, say periods one more batch of prisoners people. one apartment then fired the federal tax upfront takes on the big issue, studies of post tax to what's happening now. it says it's cool. thanks. question, professor applies unflinching questions. rigorous. the bank that he added to today is that another thing is taking place. augusta. nothing goes into gauze or without us of permission. nothing leads scottsdale with offers roles, permission allow me to push back for a moment, demanding of these fires, demanding an end to the root causes of all of this violence upfront without 0 that

we don't simply focus on the public as of the conflict. it's the consequence of war, the human suffering definitely the 4th time. it is one of the most serious thoughts of violence. in recent years, we brave bullets involved because we give voice to those demanding freedom the rule of law. and we always include the views from all sides, the he's rarely intensifies its attacks on guys. i haven't even bonding areas from the north to the south. 350 policy needs up in kills in the past 24 hours. the you watching out a 0 life from to how with need for the back.