a full service spiritual diseases such as was single situations, the people who are being forced to sleep on the streets also meaning that, that bracing themselves for worsening situation alongside the continual bombardments. funny got jago, i'll just sarah london protest as of also ronnie, new york to them on did immediate cease firing, goes up, people up this demonstration carried palestinian flags. they're also being similar protests throughout the us. over the past few days during the week. jewish activists blocked a major freeway in los angeles cooling for the ends of the war. and this was the scene in cape town, south africa with supporters of several political parties including the governing amc, rallied in support of palestine that also demanding an end to the fighting and thousands march through bus loan and to express their support without us to indians, spain is among several european countries calling for a last in humanitarian, c spy,

and the conflict the that certain some of them use now and ukrainian also are these have released footage of what they say is a rushing drone attack on a hospital in the headstone region. the adults who was injured and the hospital unit damaged moscow has denied to targeting ukrainian civilian infrastructure. ukraine's air force says it's shut down so see out of 31 you russian drones across 11 regions on saturday. meanwhile, ukraine is accused of hitting an oil reservoir in russian control done yet. it's the 3rd oil storage facility, fit in the region this week, most of the risk is being under some form of russian control since 2014. but you crate in troops continue to hold positions in surrounding areas. so do you ins?

migration agency says molden 60 migraines presumed dead in an accident of libya's coast. the boat, though traveling it is believed to have hit high waves off to setting off from zora in the north west of lydia. the international organization of migration says more than 2200 people have died this year trying to cross the mediterranean sea. it'll be 40 days of morning and 28, following the death of the mayor shakes. now off i'll i'll stop by. he passed away at the age of 86 and served as he may have for the last 3 years to h crown prince jake, michele allotment, i'll sub has been named as his successor. that's it for me, for now are you full? so the news continues off to the bottom line. the a unique perspective to this voice for peace is the way for me to take action

voices. you don't often hear tribal nations do stand with palestine. it's the same service shared connect with our community and talking to conversations you will find elsewhere, brand new episodes of history on how does your hi, i'm steve clements and i have a question if israel's war has gone way beyond self defense, to the point of making the gaza strip itself completely unlivable. why is the by the administration supporting it? let's get to the bottom line. the in less than 3 months is really has killed nearly one percent of the palestinian people living in the gaza strip. to put that in perspective, one percent of the population of america, we'd be more than $3000000.00 people. that's like wiping out an entire state like arkansas or nevada. and so far there's just no end in sight. hundreds of innocent civilians, mostly women and children, are killed by his really forces daily and almost 100 percent of the people living

there are now displaced. that's 100 percent. they're desperate. they're hungry. they're cold is really and us officials are acting is if the palestinians should blamed themselves because from us carried out a surprise attack. in october, the killed about 1200 is really soldiers and civilians. but when it country wages a war, it usually has a specific outcome that it's looking for. so what's the end game for israel? today we're talking with one of america's most influential thinkers, john mearsheimer, professor of political science at the university of chicago, an author of the israel lobby and u. s. foreign policy, as well as most recently how states bank the rationality of foreign policy. john is terrific to be with you today. thank you so much for joining us. um you wrote a piece this week, death and destruction and gaza. and what you said that we reached a point where there is simply no meaningful military purpose in israel's more tell us what you meant as well when it comes to what is real is doing in

gaza. you have to distinguish between going after home boss and punishing the civilian population. and when we talk about punishing the civilian population, we're talking about killing, murdering huge numbers of civilians. displacing them from their home, starving large chunks of the palestinian population inside garza and so forth. and so on. these are basically war crimes. i don't think there are many people who would dispute that is real has what we called the right to go after him. boss mosse attacked is real. israel's going after home us. that's not really a contested issue for the most part. but what the as rallies are doing is they're going far beyond going after her moss. and they are inflicting massive pain and punishment on the civilian population. and in my opinion they shouldn't be

unacceptable to decent people all. ready over the world, and the idea that binds in ministration is not only sanctioning this but supporting it. it's very important to understand that the as rallies could not conduct this punishment campaign without support from the united states. they need american military weaponry. and furthermore, they need american diplomatic support and we are giving that to them. so we are as deeply involved in this disaster, this humanitarian disaster. as these rallies themselves, are you fine that there is a worry that america is on the wrong side of this. you know, i think there's widespread support inside the american body politic uh for uh, uh, the palestinian civilian population. i mean, i don't think there's any question that lots of people think what the as really,

is, are doing to the civilian population is deeply wrong. there's no questionnaire. a lot of people will voice their opinion on this issue publicly, and that's in large part because they fear that the is real lobby will target them and that will do damage to their career. there's all sorts of evidence that people on college and university campuses are self censoring for fear of the israel lobby . but even there, it's clear this is just widespread support for the palestinian people and the wide spread criticism of what his real is doing. what do you, would you be advising president biden? early on in this conflict, if you were trying to advise him or the is really how to respond after october 7th . well, i think in the beginning the biden should have gone to great lengths to tell the israelis to make sure that they executed

a measured response and that they did not overreact. and he should have made it clear that she would support the israelis against tomas. i mean he had no choice the hair for sure. but he also should have made it clear to the israel east that if they went after the civilian population, the way they are going after the civilian population of the united states would go to great lengths to throttle is reels, attempts to murder, huge numbers of civilians. that's what he should have done. we should be on the other side of the divide with regard to this campaign, this bombing campaign that these rallies are waging against the palestinian civilians. by the way, it's not just the bombing campaign. these rallies are trying to starve a large numbers of palestinians to that. they made that very clear. it's not like

i'm making this up. the israel east themselves said that this is exactly what they're doing. if you look at what the israelis are saying about the palestinians, how they describe the palestinians, talking about them is human animals and so forth and so on. and then utah, you listen to what they're saying when they talk about what they intend to do to god. so you know, they talk about flattening leveling it rad acadia. and it use very clearly that they are purposely targeting the civilian population and they are doing massive amounts of joy. john is killing one percent of the population. so many innocent people isn't a red line for the neighborhood, for egypt, for jordan, for other nations around there for the united states. are we all just in a, in a performance act right now saying, israel, please don't harm civilians, please limit what you're doing. but we're watching,

we're just help us and just watching a horrible scene just done full with no real leverage. yeah, i think that's exactly what's happening. i mean, just to talk about the united states, we have the potential to bring this bombing campaign to an end. we have a huge potential leverage for israel. there's no question about it, but it's almost impossible for any president, including president biden, obviously, to use any of that leverage. and the end result is we can say that we hope is real, will limit this campaign and do everything it can to minimize civilian casualties. but we don't do anything concrete, or at least we haven't done anything concrete up to this point to prevent these rallies from killing large numbers of civilians. and by the way,

it's not just the americans, the europeans, are doing nothing themselves, the germans and the british, their behaviors, especially egregious on this front. even in the arab world, the, you know, see the leaks in the world. doing very much to put it into this. and in fact there's all sorts of evidence in the air world. it's pressure from below, that is largely motivating the leads to criticize with the israel is, are doing. and it's a tragic situation. and it is quite remarkable in the year 2023 that these rallies are able to get away with this. what do you think is real wants uh, if not a 2 state solution. oh, it's very clear to me what is real wants and we're talking here about the, the government. they want to ask the cli clans of gaza and they want to ethically

cleanse the west bank. the problem that these rallies face steve, is the inside greater is real and greater is real, includes guys a, the west bank and green line is real. there are approximately 7300000 palestinians and there are approximately 7300000 jews. so you have a rough equality in the number of jews and palestinians inside greater israel. and that means you can have a democratic state. and if you don't want a 2 state solution, then what are you going to do? go up to. now the answer is quite clear is real, has turned into in apartheid state. it is in apartheid state. and these rallies understand that over the long term, this is probably not viable. we all know what happened to south africa can, is really exist over the long term as in apartheid state. and you want to remember

the groups like human rights watch amnesty international that sell them and so forth. and so on. have labeled israel as an important stay, so they wanna get out of that situation. and the best way to do that from their point of view is typically clans of the get to the gaza strip and west bank, much like they ethically cleansed. large parts of green line is real in 1948 and much the way they cleansed large ports of the west bank. in 1967, the problem is that they have not been able to do that in the united states, much towards credit has at least said that it will not. countenance is real, ethically cleansing does, but we'll see what happens there. these rallies are punishing to the civilian population in gaza in large part in my opinion, to drive them out. but they have not been successful. i,

i want to play for you john, a clip of danny down on israel's former ambassador, united nations in 2019. and something he said about what's behind israel's goals. listen, this is a deed to our land. is holding up the bible, basically the old testament to say this is the d to our lands in the united nations . and i'm just asking you is sort of an analyst to say, if that's what we're working with. and america is allied with that. how does this ever get to a different point than just an ongoing horrible convulsive ulcer? it doesn't mean this is where we are. and by the way, if you look at the demographics inside of israel, the people who are most likely to make the argument that was just made

that you know, the bible is israel's deed to owning or greater israel. the people who are most likely to make that argument are the ultra orthodox and the old. ready orthodox now form about 13 percent of israel's population, but over time their numbers are going to increase gravely up to the point where and about the year 2050 you're going to have about 30 percent of is real close to one 3rd of his real will be the old orthodox and that's because the birth rate among older orthodox women is so high. this means that the argument, danny, the non, was just making is going to become heard more widely in israel. it's not only going to be people like him, it's going to be more more orthodox jews making that argument. so this arguments simply not going away. let me ask you about responsibility to protect because right

now in washington, we have a couple of things tied together. american support of ukraine in, in the russian war, a lot of particularly those in on the progressive side of the foreign policy, we're talking about our to p, the responsibility to protect as one of the animators of american support ukraine. where are they with regards to the israel, gaza conflict, and the responsibility to protect palestinians. you hi, here remarkably little from them. they're all these people who have been talking for years now about the importance of worth to pay the hortons of protecting human rights. and you would expect all of them to be wildly proclaiming that what the israelis are doing is unacceptable. and it'd be an ide states has a moral responsibility to put an end to all of this killing of civilians with

palestinians. but you hear very little from these human rights proponents and from human rights groups inside the united states. uh, the silence is actually quite amazing. when i watch polls and what's going on, it's very clear that younger generation democrats, particularly democrats of color, but it's really broad swap of younger voters in the democratic party are very, very, uh, frustrated with jo biden's position on israel garza and you see a collapse in their support and when you interview them and do focus groups right now, they say there's nothing that's going to bring them to support joe biden. there's a more general problem at play here, and that is the israel has lots of support among people your age and my age. but once you begin to go down and look at younger cohorts, it's a very different story. there's a harris harvard poll that came out very recently that says that if you look at

people between the ages of 18 and 20 for the survey, then you ask them this question. was a mosque justified in showing is rarely citizens on october 7th, we're not talking about killing the military. we're talking about killing civilians . in other words, was how much justified in what they did? on october 7th, 51 percent of people in the united states between the ages of 18201824 said the tomas was justified. this is funny. and then if you look at people between the ages of 253-425-3448 per 28 percent. say that i'm boss was justified in what it did on october 7th. so you see the israel has a real problem and of course this problem manifests itself on college campus. and

that's why the lobby is working over time. now to try to shut down criticism of israel and universities and colleges. and then his last interview, henry kissinger did with actual spring or c, e o mathias doppler fissions are said that the problem society is like the united states in germany had, was letting in so many refugees. so many people from other groups because they then become agents for those other groups for those other identities. and it just seemed to me, one of the most remarkable in humane comments about the importance of others outside like palestinians. you know, i'm interested in that tension about race and identity inside pluralistic societies right now. and whether or not we're trying to wrestle that decency out of ourselves as well. i would come at this from a slightly different perspective. i,

i don't like the kissinger argument about bringing the people from different ethnic backgrounds or different countries into the united states. the united states has an immigrant culture. i think that's a wonderful thing. and i have no problem with bringing immigrants into the united states. i think it's which may bring an immigrants into the united states and huge numbers in the 19th century is what made this country great and it's what will keep this country powerful into the future. so i have no problem with the immigration issue for me is a how to think about realistic behavior versus moral behavior. when you think about how estate should act in the international system. and i fully understand that states have a deep seated increase in security competition for the purposes of maximizing their

chances of surviving. and i fully understand that state sometimes do routes, list things to other states for good strategic reasons. okay? but at the same time, there has to be a moral dimension on depends how states behave towards other states. and as long as there are no sort of strategic reasons for realist, reasons for behaving ruthlessly. states should go to great lengths to act in oral way. i have no problem making that argument and i think in the case of what's going on inside of gaza, a d. b, there is no strategic reason for is real, to destroy alice than an society to, to huge numbers of civilians. it just doesn't make good strategic sense and i

believe it is morally wrong. so this is why i am so deeply opposed to it. i think there's no question that is real, has the right. i use that word loosely. it has the right to go after a mouse. a mazda attacked is real, is real, can go after him, us, and i understand that is israel goes after him last is going to be collateral damage. civilians are going to be killed. this happens and work time. it is regrettable, but it is a basic fact of life, but it's very different than purposely targeting civilians for the purposes of inflicting massive pain and punishment on them. and again, this has no strategic logic is there's no sort of realistic reason for doing this. and therefore, i think it's deeply wrong and you don't see any chance at all. america will in any time, you know, close to now turn off that tap. it's

a rare occasion when the united states, but scores of leverage on israel, especially when it comes to dealing with the palestinians. and that's because any government, including the by did ministration, understands full well. that if we are to get rough with the israelis, or we weren't to get rough with the israelis, the is real lobby would come after the administrator shouldn't hammer. and tom and the administration doesn't want that, especially since we're moving into an election year. are we going to be complicit? do you think in the possibility of equations that are in fact ethnic cleansing? well, there's not a growing clamor. i mean, there's no question that this is a powerful motive on the right inside of israel and inside of the united states. uh,

the united states has made it clear the us government divided administration has made it clear that that's unacceptable. the question is, what happens if these rallies just do it? one could argue that, you know, were marching towards the point where there may be massive estimate clemency. if this bombing continues and the israelis continue to prevent of water, food, and medicine from coming in to gaza in large enough amounts, it could be that the palestinians begin to move out of gaza and it is really do everything. they can't facilitate that. just hard to say how this plays out moving forward, but the israelis could just do it and just ignore that. what the by the administration is saying about what is it? it is not acceptable. so it remains

a real possibility. and as i said to you before, you want to understand that these really is basically have 2 choices here, whether to continue operating as an apartheid state and to continue keeping gaza as basically a giant open air prison or the ethically clients garza and the west bank at the same time, uh if they can. now they would definitely prefer to do that and uh, the, the administration is that you get to that. but again, how that plays itself out remains to be seen. whether by the ministration keeps trying to save it at once, the ground war to end by year's end item. let's see that happening. i see this as a story we're going to be having to continue to focus on for some time. john, i hope you'll come back and keep sharing your perspectives as this evolved. thank you so much for joining us, professor john mearsheimer of the university of chicago. thank you, steve for having me on the show. so what's the bottom line?

israel's forces have destroyed more than 100000 buildings in gaza. that's on top of the killing of thousands of women and children innocence. and it implies a different objective in this war. according to at least one is really cabinet official. the emphasis is on quote unquote, damage not accuracy. this conflict, the baby is buried in the rubble of collapsed apartment buildings, the destruction of bakeries that provide bread, the pr reading of captured palestinian men and underwear. all of it is going to be seared into the minds of not only palestinian victims, but all of us. there's no moral high ground here. there's no sense that isn't palestinian people matter in any equation. they were a burden and a nuisance in the eyes of many in his real, particularly settlers before october 7th. they are looked at as in human. the u. s . government is complicit in the horrors we're seeing. it's just nonsensical. it's an orwellian circle where america thinks it can both be seen as a legitimate ally of palestine to interest,

while it sits coldly on this side of israel's and tempered war machine. the only cares about damage. and that's sadly, the bottom line, the as israel's war and gaza continues, we bring you the nation on the grounds and goes back to bring you the events as they have been reporting 1st time on the suffering and lots of people on the list of tasks. and states and we live in occupied east curious and covering the lights, his political developments. and in fact, we're here across the west bank. the full thing has how this war is not just massively affecting losing dollars. stay with us for the latest updates and detailed coverage of the war on gaza on alice's 0.

hundreds. and then millions stefan's prize does a delicacy value just as highly by called sales in the mafia. price per kilogram is equivalent to several different trucks with exclusive access phone lines joins the environmental. prosecute is turning the tide on the criminals, exposing the list of the world of wildlife trafficking and it's devastating impact on the planet solutions. the shocks and hunches on al jazeera, using music and as a form of resistance during the boss. and you're in the ninety's actress and mean the most interesting for children, and sorry about each for many people's names. it is very easy to empathize with the people of god less than a month ago was changed to performance and we quoted pain and cut out. i felt not just duty, but an enormous desire to raise awareness about toward garza other, both the enact or is joined. an initiative by the after theater. a non profit,

public opinion, ensemble base and come out of luck. as the people who survived on the side who survived the siege will survive the aggression. i think that all the legation to be the people will always be the 1st for a there was, i'm standing in front of the saturday of a city hall, a well known manya. miss burns down is a war it's been renovated just like the rest of the city, but the psychological scars of the war are self visible. here. the, [000:00:00;00]

the, [000:00:00;00] the israel's prime minister repeat, says, determination of the war on garza will continue to spine growing international pressure for a cease fine the already full. so this is obviously rely from the also coming up mass demonstrations and television as the killing of 3 top tips by is ready,