to the citizens of serbia, the level of humiliation to have people being brought for. don't live in belgrade to bolton. bill. great. is something we can't accept and will fight with all democratic means against deceptive votes. that happened to be in belgrade and across serbia. we're prepared for this already in the last few days. but there are concerns that the global entity background movement is losing the meantime. it follows the reversal of nations and use a lens and allows you to bend smoking for future generations. foreign slowing reports, this is the leading cause of preventable the w h o estimates tobacco kills more than $8000000.00 people each year, including those exposed to 2nd hand smoke. support for the n t smoking movement is growing. many governments are working to reduce the number of smokers, including new zealand, with a number of people who smoke has fallen to 6.8 percent. the country was the 1st 2 possible a year ago. this is now being reversed under the new administration,

much to the disappointment of n t, smoking advocates. i think it's important to recognize that politician come and go . but the polling that we've done shows that during the cust nice ation. reducing the availability of tobacco products in the smoke free generation, the based on very strongly evidence and the very popular and that evidence is never going to go away malaysia to had a plan to cub smoking. but those provisions will ultimately dropped from proposed legislation. public health experts say the opposition to such a bad is misguided. it's felt that it's a bad on existing smokers and beaten uses. and therefore it is something of a deprivation of, of liberty right there. and that's where most of the objection lies. but the fact of the matter is it's actually trying to protect our children, our grandchild,

then those who come off to us from being addicted to make a thing to begin with. and to smoking advocates find themselves going up against a powerful opponent, the tobacco industry. that's estimated to be worth one trillion dollars by 2030. the british government has said it tends to introduce a new vote that would prohibit secret sales in england to individuals born after january 1st 2009. it's highly likely that the tobacco would stay with the to do things like you just, you'll review a legal challenge as that part of that playback, the kind around the well to try and show that directly to reprice fast and slow it down. um, but i, i, i know you to our government the house previously stood up to those back to industry and i'm sure that they will talk to them again. england could end up being the 1st to impose a generational ban on secret sales science. 3 o g 0. the news continues here on al jazeera up to the bottom line up next

0 is here to report on the people often ignored, but who must be hurt. how many other channels can you say? we'll take this time and put extensive saw it into reporting from under reported areas. of course we cover major global events that are passion, lies in making sure that you're hearing the stories from people in places like how is fine with the region. and so many others, we go to them, he makes the effort, we care straight the colleges with the high on steve clements and i have a question. israel's war his going way beyond self defense to the point of making the gaza strip itself completely and livable. why is the by the ministration

supporting it? let's get to the bottom line. the in less than 3 months is really has killed nearly one percent of the palestinian people living in the gaza strip. to put that in perspective, one percent of the population of america would be more than $3000000.00 people. that's like wiping out an entire state like arkansas or nevada. and so far there's just no end in sight. hundreds of innocent civilians, mostly women and children, are killed by is really forces daily and almost 100 percent of the people living there are now displaced. that's 100 percent. they're desperate. they're hungry. they're cold is really and us officials are acting is if the palestinians should blame themselves because from us carried out a surprise attack. in october, the killed about 1200 is really soldiers and civilians. but when it country wages a war, it usually has a specific outcome that it's looking for. so what's the end game for israel?

today we're talking with one of america's most influential thinkers, john mearsheimer, professor of political science at the university of chicago, an author of the israel lobby and u. s. foreign policy, as well as most recently how states bank the rationality of foreign policy. john is terrific to be with you today. thank you so much for joining us. um you wrote a piece this week, death and destruction and gaza in which you said that we reached a point where there is simply no meaningful military purpose in israel's war. tell us what you meant as well when it comes to what is real is doing in gaza. you have to distinguish between going after home boss and punishing the civilian population. and when we talk about punishing the civilian population, we're talking about killing, murdering huge numbers of civilians, displacing them from their home, starving large chunks of the palestinian population inside garza,

and so forth and so on. these are basically war crimes. i don't think there are many people who would dispute that is real has what we call the right to go after him. boss mosse attack is real. israel's going after home us? that's not really a contested issue for the most part. but what the as rallies are doing is they're going far beyond going after home moss and they are inflicting massive pain and punishment on the civilian population. and in my opinion, they shouldn't be unacceptable to decent people all. ready over the world, and the idea that bind administration is not only sanctioning this but supporting it. it's very important to understand that the as rallies could not conduct this punishment campaign without support from the united states. they need american military weaponry. and furthermore,

they need american diplomatic support and we are giving that to them. so we are as deeply involved in this disaster, this humanitarian disaster. as these rallies themselves are, you find that there is a worry that america is on the wrong side of this. you know, i think there's widespread support inside the american body politic uh for uh, uh, the palestinian civilian population. i mean, i don't think there's any question that lots of people think the, what the as reality is, are doing to the civilian population is deeply wrong. there's no questionnaire. a lot of people will voice their opinion on this issue publicly, and that's in large part because they fear that the is real lobby will target them and that will do damage to their career. there's all sorts of evidence that people on college and university campuses are self censoring for fear of the israel lobby

. but even there, it's clear this is just widespread support for the palestinian people and the wide spread criticism of what israel's doing. what do you, would you be advising president biden? early on in this conflict, if you were trying to advise him or the is really how to respond after october 7th . well, i think in the beginning the biden should have gone to great lengths to tell these realities to make sure that they executed a measured response and that they did not overreact. and he should have made it clear that she would support the israelis against tomas. i mean, he had no choice the hair for sure, but he also should have made it clear to the israel east that if they went after the civilian population, the way they are going after the civilian population of the united states would go

to great lengths to throttle israel's attempt to murder huge numbers of civilians, that's what he should have done. we should be on the other side of the divide with regard to this campaign, this bombing campaign that the israelis are waging against the palestinian civilians. and by the way, it's not just the bombing campaign, these rallies are trying to starve a large numbers of palestinians to that. they've made that very clear. it's not like i'm making this up these realities themselves. say that this is exactly what they're doing. if you will get with the israelis are saying about the palestinians, how they describe the palestinians, talking about them as human animals and so forth and so on. and then utah, you listen to what they're saying when they talk about what they intend to do to gaza. you know, they talk about flattening leveling it rad acadia. and it use very clearly

that they are purposely targeting the civilian population and they are doing massive amounts of joy. john is killing one percent of the population. so many innocent people isn't a red line for the neighborhood, for egypt, for jordan, for other nations around there for the united states. are we all just in a, in a performance act right now saying, israel, please don't harm civilians, please limit what you're doing. but we're watching, we're just help us and just watching a horrible scene just done full with no real leverage. yeah, i think that's exactly what's happening. i mean, just to talk about the united states, we have the potential to bring this bombing campaign to an end. we have a huge potential leverage. horror is real. there's no question about it,

but it's almost impossible for any president, including president biden, obviously, to use any of that leverage. and the end result is we can say that we hope is real, will limit this campaign and do everything it can to minimize civilian casualties. but we don't do anything concrete, or at least we haven't done anything concrete up to this point to prevent these rallies from killing large numbers of civilians. and by the way, it's not just the americans, the europeans, are doing nothing themselves. the german is in the british, their behaviors, especially egregious on this front, even in the arab world. uh, you know, see the leaks in the world doing very much to put it into this. and in fact, there's all sorts of evidence that in the air world,

it's pressure from below. that is largely motivating the leads to criticized with the israel. these are doing and it's a tragic situation. and it is quite remarkable in the year 2023 that these rallies are able to get away with this. what do you think is real once uh, if not a 2 state solution. oh, it's very clear to me what is real wants and we're talking here about the, the government. they want to ask the cli clans of gaza and they want to ethically cleanse the west bank. the problem that these rallies face, steve, is the inside greater is real and greater is real. includes guys. uh, the west bank and green line is real. there are approximately 7300000 palestinians and there are approximately 7300000 jews. so you have rough equality in the number of jews and

palestinians inside greater is real. and that means you can have a democratic state. and if you don't want a 2 state solution, then what are you going to do? well up to. now the answer is quite clear is real, has turned into in apartheid state. it is in apartheid state. and these rallies understand that over the long term, this is probably not viable. we will know what happens the south africa jen is really exist over the long term as in apartheid state. and you want to remember the groups like human rights watch uh, amnesty international that sell them and so forth. and so on. have labeled israel as an important stay, so they wanna get out of that situation. and the best way to do that from their point of view is to have typically clans of the get to the gaza strip and the west bank, much like they ethically cleanse. large parts of green line is real in 1948 and

much the way they cleansed large ports of the west bank. in 1967, the problem is that they have not been able to do that in the united states. much to its credit has at least said that it will not. countenance is real, ethically cleansing does, but we'll see what happens there. these rallies are punishing to the civilian population in gaza, in large part, in my opinion, to drive them out. but they have not been successful. i, i want to play for you john, a clip of danny, down on israel's former ambassador, united nations in 2019. and something he said about what's behind is reels, goals. listen, this is a deed to our land. is only up the

bible, basically the old testament to say this is the deed to our lands in the united nations. and i'm just asking you is sort of an analyst to say if that's what we're working with. and america is allied with that. how does this ever get to a different point than just an ongoing horrible convulsive ulcer? it doesn't mean this is where we are. and by the way, if you look at the demographics inside of israel, the people who are most likely to make the argument that was just made that you know, the bible is israel's deed to owning or greater israel. the people who are most likely to make that argument are the ultra orthodox and the old. ready orthodox now form about 13 percent of israel's population, but over time their numbers are going to increase gravely up to the point where and

about of the year 2050 you're going to have about 30 percent of is real close to one 3rd of is real will be uh, hold to orthodox and that's because the birth rate among over orthodox women is so high. this means that the argument danny did on was just making is going to become heard more widely in israel. it's not only going to be people like him, it's going to be more more orthodox jews making that argument. so this argument simply not going away. let me ask you about responsibility to protect because right now in washington, we have a couple of things tied together. american support of ukraine in, in the russian war, a lot of particularly those in on the progressive side of the foreign policy, we're talking about our to p, the responsibility to protect as one of the animators of american support ukraine. where are they with regards to the israel, gaza conflict,

and the responsibility to protect palestinians. you hi, here remarkably little from them. they're all these people who have been talking for years now about the importance of worth to pay a new horton's of protecting human rights. and you would expect all of them to be wildly proclaiming that what the israelis are doing is unacceptable. and that the united states has a moral responsibility to put an end to all of this killing of civilians with palestinians. but you hear very little from these human rights proponents and from human rights groups inside the united states. uh, the silence is actually quite amazing. you know, when i watch polls and what's going on, it's very clear that younger generation democrats, particularly democrats of color. but it's really broad swap of younger voters in

the democratic party are very, very, uh, frustrated with jo biden's position on this real gaza. and you see a collapse in their support. and when you interview them and new focus groups right now, they say there's nothing that's going to bring them to support joe biden. there's a more general problem at play here. and that is the israel has lots of support among people your age and my age. but once you begin to go down and look at younger cohorts, it's a very different story. there's a harris harvard poll that came out very recently. that says that if you look at people between the ages of 18 and 20 for the survey, then you ask them this question was a mosque justified in showing is rarely citizens on october 7th, we're not talking about killing the military. we're talking about killing civilians

. in other words, was how much justified in what they did on october 7th, 51 percent of people in the united states between the ages of 18201824 said the tomas was justified. this is funny. and then if you look at people between the ages of 253-425-3448 per 28 percent. say that a moss was justified in what it did on october 7th. so you see that it's real has a real problem and of course this problem manifests itself on college campus and that's why. ready hobby is working over time now to try to shut down criticism of israel and universities and colleges. and then his last interview, henry kissinger did with actual spring or c, e o mathias doppler. this is your said that the problem society is like the united states in germany had,

was letting in so many refugees. so many people from other groups because they then become agents for those other groups for those other identities. and it just seemed to me, one of the most remarkable in humane comments about the importance of others outside like palestinians. you know, i'm interested in that tension about race and identity inside pluralistic societies right now. and whether or not we're trying to wrestle that decency out of ourselves as well. i would come at this from a slightly different perspective. i, i don't like the kissinger argument about bringing the people from different ethnic backgrounds or different countries into the united states. the united states has an immigrant culture. i think that's a wonderful thing, and i have no problem with bringing immigrants into the united states. i think it's with may bringing immigrants into the united states and huge numbers in the 19th

century is what made this country great, and it's what will keep this country powerful into the future. so i have no problem with the emigration. the issue for me is how to think about realistic behavior versus moral behavior. when you think about how state should act in the international system. and i fully understand that states have a deep seated interest in security competition for the purposes of maximizing their chances of surviving. and i fully understand that state sometimes do ruthless things to other states for good strategic reasons. okay? but at the same time, there has to be a moral dimension that under pins how states behave towards other states. and as

long as there are no sort of strategic reasons for realist, reasons for behaving ruthlessly. state should go to great lengths to act in oral way. i have no problem making that argument. and i think in the case of what's going on inside of gaza, a, b, b, there is no strategic reason for is real, to destroy alice than in society to, to huge numbers of civilians. it just doesn't make good strategic sense. and i believe it is morally wrong. so this is why i am so deeply opposed to it. i think there's no question that is real, has the right. i use that word loosely, it has the right to go after a mouse. a mazda attacked is real, is real, can go after him, us, and i understand that is israel goes after him last is going to be collateral

damage. civilians are going to be killed. this happens and work time. it is regrettable, but it is a basic fact of life, but it's very different than purposely targeting civilians for the purposes of inflicting massive pain and punishment on them. and again, this has no strategic logic isn't. there's no sort of realistic reason for doing this. and therefore, i think it's deeply wrong and you see any chance at all america will in any time, you know, close to now turn off that tap. it's a rare occasion when the united states, but scores of leverage on israel, especially when it comes to dealing with the palestinians. and that's because any government, including the by did ministration, understands full well. that if we are to get rough with the israelis a we work to get rough with the israelis,

the is real lobby would come after the administration hammer. and tom and the administration doesn't want that, especially since we're moving into an election year. are we going to be complicit? do you think in the possibility of equations that are in fact ethnic cleansing? but there's not a growing clamor. i mean, there's no question that this is a powerful motive on the right inside of israel and inside of the united states. uh, the united states has made it clear the us government divided administration has made it clear that that's unacceptable. the question is, what happens if the israelis just do it? one could argue that, you know, we're marching towards the point where there may be massive estimate clemency. and this bombing continues and the israelis continue to prevent of water,

food and medicine from coming in to gaza. in large enough amounts, it could be that the palestinians begin to move out of casa, and it is really do everything. they can't facilitate that. just hard to say how this plays out moving forward, but the israelis could just do it and just ignore that. what the by the administration is saying about what is it is not acceptable. so it remains for real possibility. and as i said to you before, you want to understand that these really is basically have 2 choices here. whether to continue operating as an apartheid state. and to continue keeping gaza as basically a giant open air prison or the ethically clients garza and the west bank at the same time. uh if they can. now they would definitely prefer to do that and

the, the administration is said, you can't do that. but again, how that plays itself out remains to be seen, whether by the ministration keeps trying to save it at once, the ground war to end by years. and i don't, let's see that happening. i see this as a story. we're going to be having to continue to focus on for some time, john, i hope you'll come back and keep sharing your perspectives as this evolved. thank you so much for joining us, professor john mearsheimer of the university of chicago. thank you steve for having me on the show. so what's the bottom line? israel's forces have destroyed more than 100000 buildings in gaza. that's on top of the killing of thousands of women and children innocence, and it implies a different objective in this war. according to at least one is really cabinet official. the emphasis is on quote unquote, damage not accuracy. this conflict, the baby is buried in the rubble of collapsed apartment buildings,

the destruction of bakeries that provide bread, the pr reading of captured palestinian men and underwear. all of it is going to be sir into the minds of not only palestinian victims, but all of us. there's no moral high ground here. there's no sense the innocent palestinian people matter in any equation. they were a burden and a nuisance in the eyes of many and israel, particularly settlers before october 7th. they are looked at as in human. the u. s . government is complicit in the horrors we're seeing. it's just nonsensical. it's an orwellian circle where america thinks it can both be seen as a legitimate ally of palestine to interest. while it sits coldly on this side of israel's and temper more machine, the only cares about damage. and that's sadly, the bottom line, the on the

other side of the this of spaces that the weird stuff on the way here. it is scared of my own and losing you much cut that shortly after this problem. the additional charge to your distress, the can you send the 2 bodies to the frank assessments to the problem? is that is it or is allowed to be outside that ends of international law? and one of the reasons that's the beauty of it is the fact that is it and has declared war on no coupons, people informed opinions, the medical infrastructure of an entire society has been completely destroy the

people who will feel that destruction 1st and most be the women and children inside story on al jazeera. this is the view that no scene has been looking out for the past 20 years to these really separation barrier cuts. her family's landing upon the village. in august they handed several time it is and you confiscation orders to expand the wall. the walls length is more than double that of the 1967 voters for palestinians. the wall is an extension of israel system of control, part of a wider network of roads supplements on check points. bill to give is really the offer hon while making their lights on bearable by the day here's from, i'll just say on the go and me tonight. i'll just, there is only move i left. is that the, this is where we,

the sex allies from out is there is no by last available in your favorite types to just set for it and tapped on a new app from out to 0. news that you think is it the israeli sacrifice, renewed pressure from the us to scale back it's offensive on gaza. as washington's defense chief of arrives in the region, the hotel mccrae, this is l. just a line from the hospital. so coming up another search for the data and wouldn't it down to die if it's rarely strikes on northern columns that kills 90 people in japan. here in southern does have district scenes as is ready to close as launch

attacks across the city.