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tv   The Bottom Line  Al Jazeera  December 23, 2023 2:30pm-3:01pm AST

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says that at least $1600.00 posting and veterans happening dispossess from the land since october, the 7th and international. i'm the co write scripts say that some assignments as often sponsored by the states in order to drive people from the homes. and this is on the rise north on al jazeera occupied westbank. well, let's get some other news now. the last french soldiers of less than the share of the country is new rulers 7 defense ties. relations between the 2 countries broke down following a minute recruit in july amended race reports signing these documents effectively. harold's the end of a century of colonial and post independence french presence. in this year. on the time of the last of the troops lined up to board to transport planes, the parties mount by arriving in front of the same base of the french court, just hours before supporters of the cool. yeah, it late,
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it was just the one that's on the same as we need the new rulers to forge tried and defense relations with countries with latrice us with fairness and respect. this jay we consider as a day of independence, missouri is now left for giving us a helium that lies monday and book enough for us, so to secure each voters and bring in goods. the french begin pulling out of new jersey is october 10 after the june to canceled or defends agreements with the former power. the departure of the last french soldiers marks we handle decades on principle of your presence. here is your relationship with the competitors to try to go right to the shop, please. especially july to large. they do to print us into the military. the french have moved out of their military hardware to friends, and some of it to neighboring, tried leaving behind. the struck just of these would be quickly occupied by troops
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from the united states and germany was to maintain some defense agreements with miss. yeah. and any say any yeah, cool. has upset long spending relations with many countries among them from the military ended support. is that chase down the french? not the general populace. i think we're storing democracy will normalize everything with the international community, the french and even if you're not on the best of terms ending decades of political, economic, and defense engagements. it's not clear if these broken relations could be mended anytime soon. how many degrees? i'll just see that the i'm a nice yeah. well that brings us to the end of the show. bottom line is next. stay with us the using music and as a form of resistance during the boss and you're in the ninety's actress. i mean,
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the most interested forms for children and sorry about each for many people's names . it is very easy to empathize with the people that got less than a month ago was changed to performance and we called it paid. and the cut off, i felt not just duty, but an enormous desire to raise awareness about toward garza. either both the enact or is joined an initiative by the asked or theater, a non profit, public opinion, ensemble base and come out of luck as the people who provide and the size of who survived the siege will survive that direction. i think that overall to gauge and to be the people will always be the 1st for a 0 voice stands in front of the, sorry, of a city hall, a well known monuments burns down in the water. it's been renovated just like the rest of the city. but the psychological scars of the war are still visible here a hi, i'm steve clements and i have a question. what's behind the us pressure for israel to change it?
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scorched earth strategy and gaza? let's get to the bottom line. the in the middle east, the bye didn't ministration is exactly at the point where it never wanted to be literally one week before the hamas attack of october, 7th us national security advisor jake sullivan was saying, and quote, the middle east region is quieter today. then it has been in 2 decades on quote. now it's round the clock crisis meetings, and one top us official after the other making trips to the region. after months of rejecting a full ceasefire. now, american officials and some hard line european allies like the u. k. in germany or hitting that, they're not okay with the brutality of israel's war. israel strategy has been to punish the civilian population of the gaza strip with maximum damage, killing and maiming tens of thousands of innocent palestinians, and turning gaza into a place where no one can live. so what's behind
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a slight change in tune among western powers? and what if anything, will change in this war? today we're talking with in bremar, president and founder of the razor group, a firm that studies geopolitical risk. and thank you so much for joining us. let's . i want our audience to know that one of the reasons you're famous in the world is proceeding crises coming around the corner, assessing and looking at geo political risk is out there. but i want to read to you a statement made on the 29th of september by jake sullivan, the president's national security advisor. he said the middle east region is quieter today and has been in 2 decades now. challenges remain in ron's nuclear weapons program. the tensions between israelis and palestinians, but the amount of time that i have to spend on crisis and conflict in the middle east today compared to any of my predecessors going back to 911, is significantly reduced. so i want to ask you, and this was a week before october 7th and the hamas attacks. what didn't jake sullivan see
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coming that you did coming? well, i mean, 1st of all let's, let's recognize that many of the things that jake was talking about a week before october 7th and are still in place. the abraham accords which helped facilitate israel normalizing relations with countries around the region and putting them in the best geo political positions they had been since independence of israel still very much in place. secondly, a breakthrough that was facilitated by the americans. a breakthrough facilitated by the chinese between iran and saudi arabia, but nobody thought possible. that's still very much in place it back. there was an after the october 7, a terrorist attacks that mohammed been solomon and iranian president, right. you see, spoke on the phone for the 1st time and then raised traveled to the saudi kingdom
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to meet with m b s. and with many other uh, golf leaders. so i mean, the backdrop of the big powers in the middle east. being able to engage with each other and not be in a state of war that was true before october 7th. that's true after october 7th, but of course the piece of jigs quote that really reads most problem adequately is i haven't had to spend any time on this compared to anything else. and since october 7, he's been spending most of his time on it in the back. he's been on shuttle diplomacy back and forth to the region just as the secretary of defense, just as the secretary of state, even president by. so what went wrong and what went wrong, is that every one, the israel, each and the golf allies and the your views and absolutely americans for years basically came to the conclusion of, well we don't, we can't resolve is wrote palestine. so we'll just stuff it in
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a box and bradswell even the literally stuff, the palestinians in a box. and we'll, we'll make peace with the rest of the region. and we'll just get off, keep on keeping on and, and what we saw on october 7 is that that doesn't work for the palestinians and they can make you pay for it. um that's, that's basically the, the singular piece, the, the jake is miss israel going to be safe or is it going to be able to take out from us? is there stability down the road for israel after what we've seen on fault? well, there's 2 reasons why they're not safer. one is that you can take out a mouse, leadership, and tunnels and come in and control. busy and fighters, but you will not, as a consequence take out the ideas, etiology that led to her boss and back till strength. and the americans learned this over decades with the failed. busy hunter, you can take up in laws and all of his henchmen,
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but you can't take out the extremism and you see the jalap on running afghanistan. and yet again, in afghanistan today, if you ask the palestinians in gaza and in the west bank, how they feel about from us, there was far more support for that group. after october, 7th and a half to 2 months of is really war. but then there was before october 7th. so that's one way that they're not safe for 2nd way. they're not safe for their losing international support. the americans are more isolated in supporting israel and imposing a ceasefire in the war today. then the russians war, when they invaded ukraine a couple of years ago, and you see that with united nations security council resolution and the general assembly bows that have taken place. that's an astonishing thing to say in, in the united states by this under a lot of pressure because a lot of the supporters and especially young people are increasingly sympathetic
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with the palestinian cause. not with israel. and indeed, in recent polls, astonishing to me, unlike jordy of young americans, generations, the americans say that the attacks on october 7th, the terrorist attacks were actually justified. so those are the 2 ways that israel is not safer. but see, i want to be very clear. you a lot of people that are saying israel is facing an ex essential threat, and that's not true either. israel is in the strongest military position of any country in the region. a significant nuclear force enormously well trained and technologically advanced military border and surveillance capabilities. far more capacity to outdone and through iron, don't to defend against missile attack in israel that anybody else in the region. and it is true that october 7th showed the weaknesses of those defenses,
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especially if a government took his eye off the ball as not yahoo! did, but i've had so many lectures about how israel is the best place to invest long term in the middle east for pension funds and institutional investors. and then the next hour, those same leaders say israel bases an extra special threat. both of those things can not simultaneously be true. the former is and still is and the latter is politically expedient. and we need to recognize that, well, let me play you a clip along those lines from secretary of defense, lloyd austin, who had something to say about this crisis less, less than that. what compound this tragedy, if all that was waiting for the israeli people in your palestinian neighbors, at the end of this awful war was more in security, fury and despair. and that was a very sobering words in the united states,
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secretary of defense about the neighborhood. you just talked about risk, you're one of the greatest risk calculators i know. is this really robbing itself in this moment of that triple a, you know, gold star rating of, you know, a relatively low risk investment for the rest of the world by not taking an off ramp to some of what we seen. how is this real playing with its future here? but again, you know, kind of less than, you'd think, steve, again, because no one's going to take away. the military support that the us is providing, know, is going to take away the technological capabilities. israel has, i mean, you know, the people that are fighting against israel in the palestinians and from us are fighting from a position of desperation. the israelis are defending from a position of strength. and they're also occupied from a position of strength. so no, i don't, by the idea of israel is suddenly going to be ex, essentially vulnerable to its enemies. not least because leaders in saudi arabia
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and the way he quietly are perfectly happy to see him. us be destroyed, they can't say it publicly. a mazda is a problem for them. the arab street is a problem for them. and saudi arabia would love to be in a position where they could once again, normalize relations with israel, as they were just about to do before october 7th. they just need it to be more than window dressing for the palestinians given what's happened for the last couple of months. so no, i don't buy that, but i do by the fact of the israel is more isolated today and is losing some of its international support that has been hard, far over many decades. and i'm sympathetic to the fact that is rarely steel like they cannot live next to a territory that is run by a government that does not recognize their right to exist. i. i except that i separate, it cannot be sustained people or the is really government to live next to
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a come us lead gaza. but that is very different than say that they must destroy every member of home us that's ever picked up a rifle, that they must destroy every individual who has described loyalty or fealty to that organization. i don't think it is accomplishable. i think that the civilian costs have already been far too bye, as a consequence of their efforts to do that, and i think they will lose more than they gain from their own population and more broad. do you think there's a way after this conflict subsides and it will subside, it will ended amount at some moment where the palestinian authority or the p l. o or some other entity that the united states helps engineer in place, will be able to come in and govern. garza come in and govern the west bank and move us forward. or do you think that's a pipe dream? but the idea of governing does a, when it's rubble and, and,
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and more than 50 percent of the population without homes, you can govern that. you have to rebuild that before you can govern it. you have to construct it. there has to be a state there. there's no state there right now. there's human cottage. so where, where many, many months, probably years away from when you would be able to talk about governing a 2 and a half 1000000 people on the ground in gaza. but it will need to happen. and it will need to happen with a plan for a sustainable future for the palestinians of israel has a right to defend itself under every circumstance. so do the palestinians is rarely have a capacity to defend themselves. as of right now, the palestinians do not do that. you need to have a government that doesn't want to destroy israel, and it also is capable of governing. it's pete full without corruption,
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without stealing all of the aid that is coming into them. that is not how much historically that has not been the palestinian authority. they haven't done a very good job of this. nobody else know the americans are saying they want the palestinian authority provide some security even if not governance. right. the is really, is under non yahoo, a say no way know how i don't believe it not. you know, it's going to be there for much longer than another few months. so it's clear that you're not going to have that kind of a solution with him in charge, but nobody thinks he should be running israel, not least. he is really citizens once he's gone. yeah, i think that's part of a solution. i think egypt can be part of a solution as well, with a lot of money provided by the gulf states. but this, i think united nation is going to be part of that solution. but, but steve, we are very, very far from that conversation. you know, one of the things i've been wondering is, are we seeing an escalation without noticing it?
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you've recently written about the who t's drones that were short down 14 drones or were shot down successful ballistic missile attacks from the who t's on shipping in the red sea and coming out of the suez canal. and it is affecting the decision on how some commerce is traveling. is there any ron back escalation right now that we're not witnessing? is this the who teased basically taking independent action? and do you worry about that? is that something, as i have to tell you in washington, there's not been a lot of reaction to this, but when you look at the detail of what the who t's have been able to do is pretty significant in my book. what do you think? well, you, you asked me if there is a ron bax escalation. i think the answer is yes, you did not ask me if there was a wrong orchestrated escalation. the answer to that would be no. and there is a very big gap between those 2 things. even if they are leading to the same outcome now, for the 1st 6 weeks of this, for the attacks we saw from the host,
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these as well as from she and militias in iraq and syria, also backed by iran, were considered by the americans privately to be new since attacks, they weren't meant to kill soldiers. they weren't meant to really, you know, sort of lead to any escalation. they were just kind of showing that these actors were there, they're powerful. they could cause problems in the future. you know, you need to pay attention to the and the american response was very restrain targeted. want to tackle. we also meant to not really kill anybody and certainly not getting the iranians directly involved. since then, we have now seen it says the ceasefire, the, the humanitarian pause, when the hostages were being exchanged. and now the attacks on gaza have begun again in earnest. we have now seen a significant escalation from the peace in particular go our attacking ships
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with the intention of destroying them and sustained the tax upon american warships in the red sea that has led some companies to stop shipping through that are area. and instead, a much longer, much more expensive wrapped around south africa. and it's also led to more significant the american responses, though, focused so far on economic sanctions. again, some of those actors, as opposed to military escalation. americans don't want the iranians to get directly involved in this war. what we've seen from the ronnie is so far as they're willing to keep the who these on a pretty long leash. but that's very different from you don't want to. um to, to have this become a regional conflagration. so i'm like, you see, i'm more worried today about that trajectory. then i was 3 weeks ago. mm hm. but i still think it is less likely than more likely that we are, you know, on the tipping point of
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a regional war. now you're seeing more and more direct calls by the administration for a change of game plan by the israelis and gaza. and i'm just wondering, and i asked this recently of egypt, foreign minister, so i'm a shrimp re, i said, is there a line that will trigger some different action from egypt in the neighborhood? and he said, probably not. which means i'm wondering at what point we stopped watching the horror of what's unfolding in, in, in palestine and people begin putting consequences into their words. now, privately, these rallies had told the americans that they had learned lessons. and that mistakes were made in the 1st weeks of the bombing campaign in the north of gaza. and that, that was going to lead to restraint that a lot fewer civilian casualties. well, the, by the ministration doesn't buy that, at least from what they've seen so far. and buying doesn't like or trust non yeah.
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now on the, the americans it's not surprising. israel is the top ally of the united states in the region and they experience the worst casualties, the worst attacks on the jews, but any one has seen since the holocaust. so it's not a surprise that the american response is we're going to credit any criticism we have. we're going to make to you privately. we're not going to err dirty laundry against our friends publicly. and that also meant the toes of the security council and carrying a lot of water for the israelis in multilateral diplomacy with the gulf states and with the europeans and others. all of that has happened. but i want to bring you back steve to 2015. when the same non yahoo was in power in israel as the obama administration with biden, we're pushing for an iran nuclear deal. the j. c p. away and not. yeah. who is the top ally of the united states in the middle east, did not quietly tell by it. and here's what i really think you should do. and here's how we should work this. and i want to give you some advice. know the fluids
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of washington. he gave a public speech to the house and the senate bipartisan doing everything he could to sabotage. they tore pito iranian nuclear geo, gave interviews to american newspapers. same thing. now that is not the way you behave. if you're the top ally of the united states in the region, especially when you're in a position of stuff like that, it's not as if there's a power balance between israel in the united states. and, and i think the buying does have an entirely too soft gloves approach with not. yeah, but i mean by didn't is israel's biggest friend, strongest friend, most committed friend for decades and decades. and he has been sitting there publicly watching on yahoo, destroy aspects of that position. and that relationship in an election year in the united states. do you think that there is an opportunity? they're still down the road. the united states is hoping the salaries,
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maybe other abraham accords members are going to be the re, builders of gaza. the stakeholders in gaza or do you think they're going to stay on the sidelines like they've lars, we've been doing. i think the saudis want to play more of a leadership role and i think there they have a much better relationship with the us right now. in some ways, paradoxically, given the chinese engagement, how much more energy they're buying as well, given what happens between israel and, and from us still the, the saudis are very interested in a nuclear energy deal, civilian nuclear energy deal with the americans. that would also bring inspectors onto the ground. in the savvy rate, there was a fuel pump fuel cycle. of the americans would provide them with major non nato allies status and ramp up the level. busy of it's acknowledged the of the weapon systems they're providing the saudis, i think that that deal is absolutely still doable. the question is, is
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a saudi normalization of relations with israel, a part of that you all right, now we can't be with this is really government. it can be and with window dressing for the palestinians, which would have been acceptable before the war. but that can be, you need to have something much more substantive for the palestinians. and the saudis needs to be part of it needs to be a lot more money and a lot more security and stability on the ground. and then deal that was inc in bahrain, that was a saw for the palestinians that allowed for the abraham accords in the 1st place under the truck ministration. me ask you real quickly about david cameron, now for administrative u. k. and ad only in a bare cock of germany, germany's foreign minister of both pushing hard for resumption of the deal making around hostages. and a lot of us been looking at the hostage politics in israel and whether there's any dimension there. but more and more international calls to get back into that kind of deal making with guitar at the table v as really some us,
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etc. where do you think that might go? the french, the germans, and the u. k. are now calling for a sustainable ceasefire between israel and almost not an immediate cease fire, but it sustainable ceasefire. but it's a different position from where the americans are. it's very different from where the war went on russia, ukraine, where the us was. so. busy a line with all of nato, here's the us, is largely by itself, and the allies are taking a position. it's more it can to what you see in the global south, frankly, because they are also calling for the immediate release of all passages. everyone is saying that, but you've gotten, you've already released the hostages that were easy to release and were easy to negotiate for when you're talking about men of fighting age. it's a lot harder, and then how mazda is going to drive a much tougher deal. also, with a mosse getting blown up to a much greater degree of, you know, they, they increasingly see that israel is the old war cabin,
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is willing to go after them individually. well, there's not as much reason for them to negotiate as kind of like the position that you're getting for goes it had when he finally decided to march on moscow is not like that was a winning strategy. but he was kind of out of options, right? so, i mean, if you're homeless right now, your willingness to negotiate short of things, but the non, you know, government are completely unwilling to provide you really, really limited. so you can call for this all you want. and they've been, you know, general assembly resolutions that have demanded, overwhelming majority is demanding a ceasefire, but also the release of all hostages. well, israel said no one on one side, but who mazda is that very clear? none of the other as well. we always get a straight scoop from in bremar, in bremar, president and founder of the political risk consultancy, the razor group. really thank you so much for joining us today. is it? so what's the bottom line from america's perspective? israel's future in security have sort been dealt with is
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a secret issue that couldn't be discussed with the same kind of given take that say the security of europe is discussed. that's one of the reasons why a state of palestine or justice for palestinians has been a 3rd real topic in america for decades. but that may just be changing. the us defense secretary is warning out loud. that israel may suffer strategic defeat and young people in america are dismayed by what they're seeing. and they're promising to withhold support from president joe biden. this crisis is changing and affecting american politics. that doesn't mean the equation of us support for israel, structural indifference to palestine changes tomorrow, but it does mean the equation is no longer cost free. it means more americans are paying attention and the past belief the palestine future could be shoved out of you. and under the rug isn't just no longer viable. maybe just maybe a different world is shaping up. and that's the bottom line. the
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as is arouse war and gaza continues. we bring you the nation. we're on the grounds and god's back to bring you the events as they have been reporting 1st 10 on the suffering and lots of people on the list of tasks and states. and we live in occupied east to resume covering the light. this political developments, and in fact we're here across the west bank. the full thing has how this war is not just massively affecting losing dollars. stay with us for the latest updates and detailed coverage of the war on gaza on alice's 0 highly toxic pesticides linked to elevated occurrences of parkinson's disease and the farmers who used it. were you ever warned about the health effects of hardware?
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no fault lines exposes how for decades a global chemical giant withheld information, while 1000 american problems, he actually said he should never put the words per question. parkinson's disease of the same sentence, the pesticide play book on a jersey to interview them over to you. what that will be at that the send me the see need is i did i was you. i was open at. it's about 80 pounds. that's fine. so let me just then let me, uh, would you like another i'm going to book a say i don't want this, but the file must have had to fill out like a me, it's literally just have them a photo not glue on them. and they've been in bed zillow, just get them in
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a minute and we'll go freleigh hazy are the hearing guy. so we need, i say, for safe for that will stop the killing of civilians and the destruction of civilian civilian infrastructure in gaza. but most importantly, to enable the conditions on the grounds here so that we can effectively delay the heights of the facebook as the un security council claims for increased into gaza baton degree on the cold for 65 the,
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until mccrae, this is i will just say we're alive from the hospital, so coming up several did an injured off to these ready military attacks, a residential area and the.

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