on examining the impact of today's headlines this year with the destruction of your everything international filmmakers and world class john. unless you're saying that these laws actually encourage more violence, 7 has to know stories for a global audience. this is my, you house. this is the way what these are 15 foot side of the phase us from our culture. open your eyes to an alternative view of the world today on how does era, this is the democratic republic of congo on a past to renewed violence. the opposition wants the results of the presidential vote for an old on just planning protest. so can post election tales be averted to meet up with infantry. this is inside the

hello and welcome to the program. i'm getting you navigate on almost a week on from elections and the democratic republic of congo voters are waiting anxiously for the results. the presidential pool was marred by logistical problems and credibility concerns. the electoral commission says early results show presidents felix jessica d. as in the leads, he's seeking a 2nd term after winning the dispute a 2018 election, but opposition candidates are complaining of irregularities, invalid fraud, and they want the vote and old and are calling for protests this week. what happens if it's not? is this a recipe for yet another cycle of violence and turmoil in the d. r. c. will discuss all this with our guests in a moment. but 1st, this report from victoria gate and be in the democratic republic of

congo, wiser on the national tallying center in congestive the electoral commission says the results favor incumbent phoenix trace of teddy a position needed say the election is a sham and no object. the result the head of the catholic church and the dlc criticized the noise is at the polls. moving hoff is con, believes a catholic and the church plays a powerful role in a society that's been racked by pull the tea and conflict. we have just witnessed what might be called a truly gigantic planned disorder, unbearable images that have circulated following the select oral process. women strip naked, humiliated, beaten, and thrown to the ground. if it's for the sake of power, that power can never come at the expense of a human being. the deal see has a history of political instability, securities election, victory in 2018 month, the 1st peaceful transfer of power in the d o. c. since it gained independence from

belgium move and 70 years ago. but even that was disputed chase because he promised change. yet many voters are frustrated by the high cost of living inflation and rampant corruption. some displaced people in the eastern region of north key, the west fighting his rage for years didn't. but this time because election materials arrive late and election observers have raised why to concerns about the event, the issues that certainly that we will be making recommendations about. and we have been making recommendations about is to increase transparency to increase the openness. there were problems on election day and not this any is not officially said, for instance, how many pulling stations opened late? how many pulling stations didn't open on december 20th? that has been all the dispute is elections across africa this year, including in nigeria, zimbabwe, madagascar, and the bone often resulting in violence. and in the case of the latter, amid the tree to the deal sees rich and minimal resources in arable land. but it

also has poor infrastructure and badly managed towns and cities. disputed election results compounds such problems. some in the d o sci fi, the country could spiral into violence again, victoria gates and b l g 0 for inside story will not bring in our guest. joining us from kinshasa as patrick and we are yahoo! is the spokesperson for the government of the democratic republic of congo in the common rooney and capital. your day is morero's. a bill was an african affairs analyst and editor of africa international media group. and from a russo, in terms in the i were joined by jason sterns, who's the founder off and strategic advisor to the congo research group at new york university. thank you for your time with us on inside story. mr. well, yeah, i'll start with you on opposition. candidates have been denouncing the chaos as a result of this election being held and irregularities that took place on the 1st

day of the votes. what's your reaction to that? firstly, we know position been, we're preparing for decisions. ben elections, we've been saying get di purchased in the, in the past days, what we have seen on elections day is for us to see the way come what has been 4 or more belies. they were massive code in your frontal for institutions, of course. and there was some did teacher to use about the, the, the, the, the, the starting time of voting and photo did. you can see, we have seen across the country. and i remember we as government and the addictions day, we met his statement asking of the 12 commission to talk of those issues and to provide us for, for so we cannot say that there was tell was, especially when you saw those months if people going to spend one to vote just me cause there was 4 trips. there was some incident on an incident, which was my imagined letter by the saying you provide solutions. what trips to see

here is that these evictions was i crazy because every candidate was able to run and come with a simple word. i see web presence on the election day to vote. there was of course on challenges with fedex to have commission. they like our commission was for raising us for so i was so what about let me ask you this, did you get an answer to this? there was a report. mr. munoz, a sir. let me just jump in. there was one report that was saying that while the votes was officially extended until thursday, ballots were still being cast on saturday and remote area is, can you confirm this and, and how do you explain us? yeah, you know that the man, yes, i can't. i can't, i can't confirm that the thoughts went in some, some others constituency. people where i bought a 2 volts infinity yesterday. and i think today to what we, you know, what we have to understand here is that we cannot refuse to get to, to gave the commodities before or bought unity to follow it. of course,

this thing should be done on december times, but because of the doesn't that position before it goes up from there just to kind of problem voids instruction, right? i was the late and today the many things here is that come what is cheap. we're not able to fault the cost, therefore, to chose the company leaders, which is very for sure for them across. okay, let's bring in jason's thoughts. do you agree with that? but the most important thing here, jason, is that people were able to cast their ballots a while. it certainly should be important that they can cast their ballots. i think the questions here is the why did elections weren't disposed simply postponed to allow for more time for preparations to be made in many, many voting stations. not all they put me in was there a, there was massive failing of the electronic voting machines. the, the, the, a policy that blew it, which is the sign sign piece of paper that everybody's agent has to provide document the results. they often didn't have this piece of paper. and so i think in

many of the cases these problems could have been saw simply by postponing by one week or so, which is what they done in 2018 actually. so, um, so yes, i think every comedy should actually have the right to vote, but i think also the board needs to be done. there were indeed massive massive irregularities across the board as there happened in past elections. and i think that that's what it is. a shame moving rose a please weigh in on this debate and, and look, this has been described as a high stakes election. what's at stake here? absolutely. high stake elections. the several re elections happening at the same time. you have people that electing the president electing the members obama elect team is the, in the principal, vince and the dust or how you call them that, that so they were like a bang, so thousands of people complaining throughout the country. so that was a huge thing. but what i want to say here is that the election is that all the high

stakes, usually because, because those walk and icing, then not only in d, i see in many countries you're not forgot. they are not prepared to lose it. they do everything they can uh, even illegal things and regular things to get the result they want to brush. i missed the kind of the my, the head of the electra commission has he's the basic nation and he's applying been, has been very contentious. many, many organizations, including the may really just uh, who brings like the catholic church, which is very influential in, in the d. c. and the, even the book test didn't a good thing also association the politics in 2 weeks and weeks before and the government and the presidents decided to be

both that man, i'm why where people are opposing. he's the appointment because he was going see that to close to the president to the incumbent to be a neutral and the end of the honda school. okay. so this took a lot of time and he was confirming 2021. so 20. yeah. see sure. when the schedule to the selection, we saw that many things were not stopping on time. and when you look at the is like the see. although it is not aware of what they have to what is that stick? yeah, they have a huge country, 2300000 square feet on that right. second, and i've just got really not enough for the transportation is

possible, but he's so difficult this to the roads you. you can only front. i'm the, i'm opening the, i'm not so many, airport and all these is a huge challenge and they did not seem to realize, okay, then have to be more about that. oh the yeah. go ahead. and one of the important challenge was also that. yeah, they see an enemy at the border. i think he's been border uh which is the m 20. we we, you know, i'm melisha as by one of the, according to the united nations, according to many gone through the united states and etc. we know that what we saw was that a cruise has to be a think. okay, let me just jump in there. i mean, if it isn't your, your raise important points and these are certainly challenges the countries facing, which i'd like to get on to. but allow me to bring in mr. amelia to just address

the claims that you made on the, on mr. dennis. cuz he might, who's the president of the national authorial commission being too close to the governments. can you comment on that? first? i think got to take and but system to where i'm not at the because when insights into churches they organized boards. the candidates wasn't elected the 6 of those different churches chose mr. academy might. it wasn't a question on the about to minister cutty my being close to the present just like i don't not a talk was about being able to be the end of the commission on and since day one catholic church and put this on the spot. the stronger position that gets me start getting my weeds become a bit more personal note about team, but today a 3 years later we need to judge about what have been done as job electronic commission. i'm not going to say to speak that district about was close to me. so just in case you all know each wasn't fair. it wasn't an objective in no,

it wasn't a objective and not an on going to argument. now, what we have to focus on is to see what he has done his job, and we know we mean the 1st size of and mentor, recognize that there was some changes like this and you have 44 meaningful time. you have andre a 1000 different candidates. we have all those commodities people, one for vote on the election days. so there was, of course, some incidents. but if you have to compare the number of the incidents and the big number, because it's about making 14 people in 75000 boarding stations, it means that if you have as students in andre pointing sessions, of course it's something by the reference on something very very, very lived or things if she has to go see there, the president of sugar run so fast as to give you an example. so today, a way, i think the many things we have to see here is that some of these people were able

to vote use that for the 1st time is the new electronics. to save that skinny as to bobby's resides by pointing station it towards electronic commission. stop doing in the past days. so i think there is a way we can see what was good, what was good and judge the process not only on those of boxing up in those things, even if it con permission was working on that. then saying that eviction was, it must've got, well it's a try. okay, let me bring in jason's there a lot of these people. we've been as a board to vote in that day. let me bring in jason, because jason look one opposition. cons that it was a presidential candidates headsets has a legs up, the electoral fraud of the century was taking place. and now we know that there were calls for protests to take place on wednesday over what some people believe or disputed election results with jessica. the right now with partial results being counted, he's around 80 percent. if you think that there's a wider political crisis,

that's going to develop here in the d r c. if the result is not accepted and the country risks descending into violence in a national crisis, i think it's difficult to say, i mean we're, we're about 30 percent through counting the results at the moment. um, as we've said before, there are widespread irregularities or delays bodies stations that are open was violent, avoided violence, and voting stations. the law of a historical perspective here is that this is the 4th the election to take place since the peace process of 2006, 20112018, and the now and with the exception of 2006, every single one of those votes have been deeply flawed in 2011 the catholic church . the carter center said that the election does not reflect the will of the people in 2018. most independent observers said that he's a kid. he actually wasn't the winner of the presidential election to somebody else . and now once again, we're back in a similar place. and so i think that the political crisis is here is probably not going to be one where there could be a military coup as they've been in other places or even one with there's widespread

mobilization violence in the streets. i. i think that's probably unlikely. i think the biggest crisis here is a crisis of democracy. these, this exercise to a $1000000000.00 an extremely poor country across a $1000000000.00. this is, i think people will see why should i go and vote anymore. if i'll walk for hours to get to a police station and then i might not be able to vote or than somebody else wins, or the person who really, actually one of the pulling at the pool was, i think that's probably the wider crisis that we need to point out to you and the final thing i would say is that if you look at all the problems that my colleagues have mentioned in terms of corruption and especially in terms of insecurity in the 7000000 people, was placed in eastern call today. these are problems, largely speaking of governance and of accountability in the best way. you can hold the government accountable through elections. and so if that mechanism is not working, then there's a serious problem. okay, mary rosie, on the issue of a democracy, to what extent do you think what's happening right now in the d. r c hinders the

countries progress towards sort of a more democratic future and more economic stability. you know, i could not agree. no, we've what i've just been saying, you know what we could see on those supporting days election. these is the best for democracy for the patient people and yeah, she wants to be thought of the maximum of history national decision making. we see that so much the game, right? um they defend that, their weight that they, that, that big display phones. the problem is that after spending so much money, you know, but people think that better, probably not for go right now as we could see in many companies like mine the share and the um, do you need for in some way you have needed to wait goals and people dancing and jumping in the street to uh, to raise the put cheese. you know, they said the importance of a,

from the u. n. d p. whichever comment saw this and citizens why you see that despite oh that these buys they, they sort of joy, they have to get read all of the incumbent that was africans 90 percent of africans. one is cb and government, but in a comfortable $1.00 and $1.00 we do really elected and the system which works, they are not against democracy that against these much least mockery of democracy. that's what the, the spick and what do we see here and yes. where. so much money has been spent when you see all this happening, okay, i don't need to, to, uh, we'd be what else we see in terms of dysfunction, dysfunction at the end of the day, the process we did not create a good sense. it wouldn't create descent, the bb and so much then so much, much so,

so much effort. and that's the problem. and really of course we speak of balance. but these, these countries are wally in, in a violent a context with the eastern congo people in the space. we a m 21 that king and the but they don't seem to be really aware of that to my main point. they don't seem to be aware of what is that. thank you. you know, we are the, you look at a, you've been country at the us. oh, they're not sweet valley. was it a transition? the environmental inaji transition. they say the electric call, we'd be very important in the coming d case, so that the battery to seek you a rule materials and then for them to get to. i said, yeah,

see when the uh they, they have the next is to said of course because of the problem. yeah. and your thought you're referring to the compromise, which of course is very important to the international country. do you yeah, that don't even organize appropriate election and then okay, let me bring on mr. proctor. mr. patrick more. yeah, uh just look, i mean, you, you said that the most important thing here is that people were actually able to vote. but we know from the united nations, that's because of the violence in the country and what's happening in the east with the m 23 level group. there's a record number of people who's been displaced almost 7000000. the figure is 6900000 who been displaced many were actually unable to register to vote or go back home to vote. so how, how does that impact the election and do you fear that democracy here is at stake? the say i would like to make to quick comment before answering to your question on what is on started was saying here i would like came to explain to say that they

know as a they did, they pour the president's was they proper rates and ear? uh we uh, of course of to mr. are waiting to see the president. we'd be the winner because going, what is the board? my safety for the, for it is frustrating for what is people from the is because we've been there you are raising the questions about international his present people you know, been for, can to start to the, was trying to convince the president in their best of all if the point force phone the elections to make sure we saw the issue with, i'm 20 treat before getting back to the elections by year. the prison that the government say no because mean want to demo the cost of the debt down democracy. and we think that we should make sure it would be the election on time so we can make sure our democracy is getting stronger. much mr. more. yeah. what's the record? the what, what, what's his record here? what's his record here for mr. chest? i can see, i mean he's overseeing the largest display for the people in the country. and it's also we've kind of also, he's lost control of, of things that the, you know, these,

these, that let me, let me give you an extra. and then you give your administrator domain that are sort of part of the stuff that after they run the genocide age need and more than it's meat on died there. we have the biggest united nations, a mission in the world and you see for 20 years, nothing was up and, and today was the present just to get the we are working well working to we for mom minutes or was just them and they sent for you or the present, you security saying that we are even ready to make what we find that to stop those things because international government needs to use not is not acting effectively to solve the issue, you know. and then also not coming to do when it comes to your seed. yeah. speaking every day about it's for incentive across the, the about human rights. we all know that got me and one the i'm not able to do for even this more, it's more of a smarter for the 2 of them across in the human right. but we could meet that on that nice. those evictions costs more than one meetings. but we did that because we think that democracy is a key where we can a see to,

to provides us the number of solution for people, especially in the is, and many of the people in the eastern part of yes, it chose to vote for the present just like any ways that clean your strategy to finish they want india is about to, to record this time. you're being raising the issue of a whole my terriers and all those, such as you can, you know. yeah, they can use start as you're inside the country we are working on, but we cannot make big progress when those and penetrate aren't getting deep or in the box of this training. it goes just and we dumped anything more than that. national must've condition for a dentist one on the community. okay. it's not it's, it's unfair for them, but it's people, that's what i mean. jump in there for the 2nd time coming president to read by ourselves. try let me just and try to work to find the system level. so jason, jason, please respond to what we've heard and, and how do you think the international community is going to be looking at the selection? what does it several things that the minister approximately i said the, the, the, the correct we did in fact to a pull ahead of the elections district is

a few days before the election that suggested that the presidency, security in commons is by far the favor favorite in the election but the question here is not whether she won the elections by act. i do think that you probably would have won the elections and the for you a fair and transparent vote. the question is about the process about the credibility and legitimacy of the process. even if you want to know the numbers that are being given are, are far higher than the numbers the were in our pool or even other pools were conducted before the election. the questions about really do the, there's really believing the credibility of the process and it's not just the presidency at stake. you, it's a national assembly professional assemblies. and those are at least as important as the presidents. and so just to respond to that with regards to the east again, the minister is absolutely correct. the war was prompted by a neighboring countries, especially the roman governments who was not only backing them 23 rebels, whose troops, who special forces are on calling to the soil. and they've been engaged and have been pushing the displacement up to hundreds of thousands of people in the eastern

console. actually there is a huge burden responsibility on their own and government and their by proxy also the wrong and supporters. because rhonda is still a dramatic uh, recipient of international aid and especially the british government as well as the french government have been very reluctant to criticize the ruling and government because they have other interest with regards to to rwanda as well. absolutely. both rwanda and members of the international community are implicit in this displacement in the eastern combo. but right, that doesn't absolve to call these government from responsibility. it is also fails to stabilize the eastern calling with is not just the i'm 23. there are a 100 other armed groups in the eastern congo, and so i think they also bear a lot of responsibility in that as well. okay, mary rosie jason thomas, i'll give you sorry to interrupt about jerry bridges. i mr roy. yeah. mm hm. very briefly, we're running out of time, not sorry to interrupt design, but jason knows that if we have to provide solution solution we 1st time, we won't be able to solve this issue in 2 years because the issue we have that for

25 years today. so we should make sustainable solution and enjoy great fun, but we cannot find the solution, why? you have one bunch of stocks and continue to operate inside your scene, making more drama getting for more people. okay. during those months, acro, reductive, and i'll have to give the final words to miss. mary rose a final word to you, just comment on what we've heard and also a look. i mean, look at the country has a history of election related violence. tell us why put it in context. oh yes, sure. or uh, just because of the process of blow up is when people that uh, i'm not believing that it's free and fair. and of course you also have asked me still. yeah, yeah, no, i've missed a. i'm facing sterns, you suggest and say you have one that being very active in this, the rising go. now the space is sending a special forces on the ground or they extra direct to me. they,

why don't the problem is not on the internet community, no. to me is that you o d l c, not really a checking in jobs, they have to invest the destiny and a closing. well, besides we've made more organization, more seriousness against what is happening, what, what against the plans of one that against that. okay, well on that note i will have to leave it there. thank you so much for joining us. we really appreciate your time with us on inside story, patrick and we all yeah, thank you very rosanna, by the way. thank you. and jason sterns, thank you. as well, thanks for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website, all the 0 dot com for further discussion. you can go to our facebook page that's facebook dot com, forward slash a inside story. during the conversation on x, r handle is a inside story from myself on the hosting here in del how, thanks for watching by the

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