on charles times, you want to rate for hindsight, dramatize pod costs from i'll just here to investigate, re here from some of history's blogs, notable women, and unconventional and extraordinary office. i am 40 that kind of the communist revolution of everyone in china, new my state. you've heard all of them power it's time you have from these and 6 of hindsight is out now subscribe way. if you listen to pub cast no longer the staff of science fiction. incredible advances and also special intelligence. so a i, a now reality of technology such as a head's, will experience more of its impacts on our lives. so what all the benefits and the risks can regulate says keep pace with the developers. this is inside story the

other than welcome to the program. i'm nora kyle, just a few years ago, robots that could fit for themselves, perform medical analysis, right? essays or dr. cause. but if any existed in the realms of science fiction and fantasy now that for real positive, the unofficial intelligence revolution that will bring big changes to the way we live towards extend is so far on known as an increasing number of innovations and inventions rolled out. but what else, the pace of technology has stepped up rapidly and some of the lights in was new. all those concerned high tech is moving faster than is safe. so what is good and bad, and also special intelligence? and is it possible to regulate and control will be asking a guess these and all the questions and just a few moments. but 1st, this report, victoria guys can be the,

are the rapid advancements of artificial intelligence tools such as chat g p t foreclosed alarm this year. even from the tech lead is creating them. and they say i has the potential to both transform on lives and threatened or extinction. current state of affairs were let's kind of catching up by identifying harms after they've occurred. and it's really crucial in this moment that we see swift. friction introduce that stops companies from, you know, deploying systems into widespread use with, you know, the public burying the front of the harms, the non profit sent as a safety list, some of the biggest risks they include a being used to develop advanced weapons being abused by government bodies to monitor incense the citizens and a more immediate risk. a i generated misinformation that could be stabilized society and interfere and elections. i'm really worried that actually when we go into elections that social media or is just going to be drowning in a,

in stories that are produced by a all. and we won't be able to tell what's real and was fake any more when no great at doing that now. but i gives us a good bad act as the possibility to do that on a completely unprecedented scale. governments of working to mitigate the risks with regulations to harness the benefits as transformative power as a revolutionizing medicine and science may, he has more efficient and improving quality of life. we saw it last week 2 weeks ago from google lead mind that this and some of the system recent ones have been use for as a mathematical discoveries. so i think the use of the systems in a proper space and ethical with a hopefully can help us to resolve some of the on solve a scientific problems that are very important. what decision intelligence is developing as fast is not fast as in government's attempts to regulate it. the question is, can we keep up victoria gates and be, would you say ref inside story?

the as well come ok, so that will real in cambridge, we have henry, ida and x patch on generative, artificial intelligence and deep fake technology. he's advise that to organizations like meta and as well as in edwards, professor of little innovation and society at new castle university and then los angeles. we have run message sure, have some professor of media and information studies at the university of california and found with the research group digital culture of lab. very well, welcome to all of you, henry. let's start with the 2 broad schools of thoughts that we come to when we look at a i 1st day that it has a huge potential to transform our lives for the best to. secondly, that its presence all very existence. which one do you subscribe to? but i'd like to think that we don't have to kind of choose these extreme polls in

some respects i'm. i think it would most things these um, these applications exist on a spectrum. and there are things that we can sometimes to be very excited about in the context of things like productivity, education, health care, and the like. awesome. so acknowledging the very real risk. so opposed to things like alex and integrity, the women's rights were talking about image abuse using things like deep sites and of course, cyber security scans, impersonation, and so on. so i think the me, the narrative of the needs of it to sensational one sided with the kind of a, i assume, oh, i do, i'm the, the me, it's about kind of mounting the landscape positives, recognizing the threats as they exist and talk to them. awesome, and so they can only thing that there is a lot of positive potential. and i'm at the moment, i think we already kind of existing this quite polarized debate and why we need a little bit more of the understanding of the kind of the to we used to make true by. okay. or miss, how are you already seeing a impact all well yeah,

i mean there are very significant impacts that these types of a i system so called generated the i systems are already having because i think it's very important. we all know how these systems work. they mimic human expression and human behavior. they do so and absolutely remarkable way is because we have such powerful pattern and computing patterns, storing pattern matching technologies, right? because of the cost of storing data and essentially data finding everything as becomes so much cheaper and we build machines to induce those kind of. so that's very helpful in the context of things like environmental monitoring or as your story just indicated. questions around the science and medicine, but as far as sort of do scenarios or my concerns which are, you know, corporate overreach, bias issues algorithmic violence issues. all of these are things that were treating as in navigable, even though we're constructing the inevitable. so i think we need to ask a bigger question, which is, what should we not data fi?

what do we not, you know, let loose to calculating machines and who truly has power governance and oversight over systems of all kinds that are increasingly taking over our worlds in our planets. okay, and then would you agree with that is data, one of the key areas of concern here? what do you focused on most when you're looking at the future? they, i, i mean, yeah, i think anyone looking at the teacher by i is the cost on data. i mean, fundamentally it states data models and compute, you know, that that's the things a layer and i suppose laborers analysis, i would uh go back actually to henry's reply because i think he was being more diplomatic. but i would say a lot of this. yeah. has been spent in countering really i kind of wrapped a cold, semi religious opinion, but the main threat from a is access tensional threat to future generations. you know, as in a, i will kill is oh,

i'm very little to no evidence that we are anywhere near the scene when he starts to try as like, data she on twitter. when he starts trying to look for the proof of this, you generally find that you referred to various quotes from various injuries by various of the leaders of this movement as opposed to actual scientific, rigorous evidence. and i think all the powerless loan of the current and increasing logic models is fundamentally just so you know, it's, it's a pass and matching next would predict to generates and type technology. it doesn't resemble human intelligence in any, as far as we know that. so what we need to do, like a, is spend more time focusing on the currents, right? so the near future threats, they should already been mentioned. the facts bias and decision making, environmental threats, propaganda needs. there are so many and stop wasting our

energy on made up feature risks. okay, yeah, that is interesting if you all going to look at henry at the current situations and we've mentioned deep face, a number of times already. misinformation is a key issue that is crossing up time and time again. how concerning is misinformation in an area of social media in an error level, glued to all phones and in an area where we have already seen that have influence on major events such as the elections? yeah, so i mean, i mean, studying and researching the page, the sixty's and every made time a presidential election in the us. i will get aust, you know, is this going to be the wong, why we say a real impact face, you know, causing um a state to to bonus and possibly even swing the entire result until recently? you know, i mean, some of this makes it based on the evidence we've been seeing, which is of as being very little in the way of doing faith this information or interference a lot in a way of kind of see by that is kind of crude media manipulation to context imagery

and slow down boys. so doing things like this, however, this year has be pretty transformative in terms of both the capabilities that are available in terms of things. if i text the image, synthetic voice generation and so on. but it was so critically that the more class ation both those tools, they all know incredibly accessible. and we were seeing, you know, a lot of political defects on social media on places like tick tock, which all satirical, often upside. but then we use, i have started to see some of the, all kind of creeping into that more kind of students that this information is via the, with the i have holding. i think 76 countries have alexis next year. i called to the was population. i have no doubt that we will see some attempts to use the bikes in these elections. we've seen already in places such as slovakia and the way a fake void. so would you of the candidates, we ended up losing went viral on telegrams. and again, it's unclear how much we did talk about had, but it certainly seems to have high song and, but i guess there's

a lot of assumptions going around. but you know, deep fakes are incredibly just ways they've been a way to kind of tech space, fake news. all this information is not. and the research is really out on this at the moment. we don't know for the how much more powerful these kind of i pilot this information tools off some of the initial research suggested as a marginal improvement, but i think it's right to be concerned. but at the moment we don't have the evidence base to say that look, didn't face have this capability to really have the impact even if they all deployed y wiley. okay. i mean, well that's just part of the problem of that. that was single where the highlights of this discussion is, but there's so much, we don't know i'm a technology is moving so fast. developers doing stuff that we have no clue about. and that's very little regulation puts in place so far. the catch up with us. i mean, you're absolutely right. i mean, as far as this information concerns,

as henry alluded to, this is already a challenge on a major technology platforms, social media platforms. certainly we saw many concerns in previous selections involving meta slash facebook. we see concerns involving access. we've spoken about several times on o, g, a 0 regarding and this is partly because these platforms are not truly governed by the public, right? they're not truly governs by the most, at least in the context of elections or electrical issues. let alone the concerns that your other guest mention, which i have very much agree with around the health of an economy where all of our own personal data and the internet that we all paid for is being basically monetize and by corporate actors that have not really shown a lot of sense of um, you know, kind of a legions to the public problem. so what i think the much more interesting and important question rather than kind of going, you know, all gone so on the next technology and then the next technology in the next

technology is asking the big questions of how we wish to live on this planet. what should not be data 5, how, what, how do we truly ensure that democracy and a more equal economy governs and drives these technologies? so those social human questions are so much more important and so much more challenging in a way then just going writ large with the technologies that are being totally dominated by private corporations that don't necessarily have much allegiance to. 3rd party is like states and so on. unless they're pushed to do so. so what rubbish, what do you think should not be they to arise then? yeah, that's a great question. so i think 1st of all, i think it's, you know, many aspects of our own sort of personal lives. we should not necessarily, we should know, we should always have a opt out of data, a personal data be the default, but in many parts of the world, often as the default, including in the united states. i should be regulating data brokers which you know,

get into your opinion as doing a better job. and we should have 3rd party audit of what data as being retained for how long, how these algorithms tend to drive more extremist content that has already ramp ends on all of these platforms. so those are issues that already exist independence or connected to the emergence of generative a i systems like chat cheapie t and those are the kinds of issues we need to protect. we need to protect the integrity of all of us as citizens and ensure that they're a guard well. so we actually have a more equitable stair world and i think technology can take us there. but we have to start with those values. then do or they fail that to share more data than you're comfortable with? oh, i'm not sure i'd say about the rest of the year at the end of but the, even though i'm in the language by 35 leaves not all the human anymore. because of

course, you know, i totally agree that what we're doing is bruise the social revolution just as much as a technological revelation. and we should be looking at social solutions, such as, for example, we might talk about universal basic income for creative labor as all other kinds of neighbors workers who might lose all have that jobs diminished by this technology. but primarily i'm, i'm here as a lawyer. i would say this is not the wild west and it's even less the wild west at the end of the year of chat g p. c. and your old challenges that we just talked about. uh, we're reading a house turning point. they all being addressed. this is not just something in the file feature, this is most the world actually access issue. this is addressing these challenges across the many of these john now and provide is open a google search for all based in the us. so that's an issue, but they do have to sally to the rest of the world. i mean,

the you is the world's 2nd largest trading blog. and the full that generally means, you know, unless the small out last span, i'm a clip type enterprises, but they do want to record with your pain low as in your full right. but really well for a very long time, we've had something called data protection low general days protection regulation, which i'm sure has been discussed. i'll do 0, which does guarantee almost every thing that was just mentioned, right? transpire say as to what dates has been collected about you restrictions on how it's reprocessed, the jump in that and because like one of the problems is, and many of us too, is not to go through all of buttons. list of stuff is as being used on us and we choose not to opt out. so we just say we missed it when we, we looked into that this is on to, because it said if it is the same,

is it not basset to have the ups house as a default rather than the opt in as a default? well, yes it would be, so what i'm saying is that that's no, really the deal and all of the discussion, right? we've actually moved in europe very much past. the odds are that you consent to anything in situations where you have no tools, right? i mean, if you type facebook, you know, young people don't want to be on facebook, any mobile type goals, people, right? so many situations, everyone kind of has to be on facebook, right? it's one of the ways you get jobs. it's one of the ways you night networks. it's one of the way she key of all entries. i see asians guy and you kind of say, yeah, we consent to giving you old updates that amount of size that because we want to drink facebook. well, you're is beginning to say, in fact, is saying that it's not valid, right? that's not real. consent is changing. i'm very shortly reading very shortly within the next 5 years. probably not business model is going to be illegal in europe. and will, you know, the likes of measure and so full to do with asset ease, right?

for grinders right now, right? are they gonna have to approach different kinds of advertising? are they going to have to go to a subscription model? all the going to do some combination of who is these things, so we're really mentally past that point. okay, in your and a great deal at the rest of the world. that remains now very american perspective. okay, henry i'm, he really is needing the way as mission regulation has just recently passed the a i asked what impact is that going to have the on the development of a i within europe? well, i think lilian sent me right to the eu. has huge influence, i buzz development around the world based on the regulations that it forces within its own board is i guess you can say we saw a lot, for example, the apple with the new wifi movie to a us b. c. and pull over the lightning port that you used and that was something that the you more or less forced into action. but i must say, i do feel that, you know,

the, the kind of the landscape around regulation of a, i is a really interesting one because we're seeing countries in particular kind of grappling with this di, lemme, between both, do we kind of adopt war? well, some people would say is a pro innovation approach, which is perhaps a little bit light to room regulation to avoid wolf. people in industry would refer to that kind of regulatory capital, you know, stifling innovation multiple. so taking seriously the risks to that society, to individual rights and so long and to me it's at the moment, i think that's quite 2 countries that sort of trying to wait and see what happens in the u. a. i act as a really interesting one because obviously that's not coming to full scale. that is not being actually, you know, deployed. and it looks like it might be until probably the end of next year if i, if i understand correctly. and so yeah, i think we have this really interesting dynamic, which is we live in a while now with a lot of this information. in particular, software is freely available online. and a lot of cases, particularly open source space, which is a huge debate around day on and you know,

a lot of countries i think, are trying to sort of, kind of get that balance right. but a lot of countries, i think you're actually kind of trying to go more pro innovation to attract investment, to kind of split that reputation as the leaders in this space. um, i think the way i act will be an interesting kind of for a small website as well. like for example though china has, has put in place even the beginning of this year to deep zipped. it says that it's got some fairly broad sweeping. i regulation in place already as well, so it's not just the you that's moved fast on this. and i think if i may just quickly, i think, you know, we're measuring raise some interesting points, a lot decide to impact in kind of the big questions around data, the cation, but we do, don't want to be de divide. i mean, there was some other really interesting questions that amount of just about to die, which i think are really important such as sports. uh, i, uh, romantic top boats, virtual kind of pump isn't things like this. the field is increasingly becoming a reality. the role of synthetic resurrection, bringing back to cease doctors in hollywood. and so there's

a lot of really kind of at the candidate you with great questions that make us feel uncomfortable. and we don't really know if that uncomfort or discomfort story is kind of an intuition of the at the cool and you know, things going wrong or if it's just future shop. so i think next year we're going to see quite a lot of the sort of strange applications being debated quite possibly in the context of should this be legislated against i would we kind of govern somebody slightly more strange, slightly. these cases a rush to agree with that. do you think that's going to be quite a loss of all the things coming out? so the next. yeah. things that we don't, they don't sit quite comfortably with us. right. i mean, i don't think there's any, any question that these oddities are more and more a thing of the present and of the future. you know, my, my friend and colleague kevin ris, how i was able to get chad to be, to ask him to leave his wife in a well known story. you know, that came out a few months ago and i think the european union has left away with the interesting reforms on certain levels though they have there's been little in terms of

a true algorithmic audit. and also instagram, which is owns by meta, is a dominant platform used by younger people. so never think about the technology. it's not itself as much as the corporate governance of such which different technologies are used by different demographics. i also think there's widespread concern around where the economy is heading this data 5 economy. i mean, we see large scale youth unemployment and parts of southern europe. we have concerns around what type of innovation is actually pro labor is actually lifting young people up and creating a more equitable data economy. and i think most importantly, the vast majority of people around the planet do. i appreciate the optimism of my colleagues and the vast majority of people around the planet implicated by emerging technologies are in the global south brand there. and some of these south america, there are some examples of privacy law or other types of legislation. but many of these are one off or piece meals, so on to sort of say that we're sort of heading in

a sort of economically just democratically, you know, focused direction on a planetary level is a big map. but i think that we can get there. i think the question is, is, how do we wish our digital and data 5 world to be and what is the role of this type of artificial intelligence mind you completely different than artificial intelligence systems i and others had worked on in the past, which are more interested in rationality, human cognition, but as we know, as humans, there's many other types of intelligence as was alluded to, we have emotional intelligence in their non human types of intelligence. and at times we're just plain irrational as human beings. so this is not really about mimicking it's about cause emergent pattern recognition systems as, as they are a guest. so pointed out to one of the key areas that a i sessing the cons access. lillian at the moment is create tibits compassion. love. even if you do have romantic a tap bolt, they don't quite hit the mark,

do they? and they, they, you, i cannot fully understand human language. what limits is that then bring and will it one day maybe overcome those limits? i don't think i'm the one to ask if it can either come let's limit some steps to go about it, but i'm not a computer scientist. um, i think the, what was saying one of the early is huge and is, i mean we've already talked a lot misinformation. i think the other major impact right now is on the predictive industries. whether it's the know this for some just but um, i think again what we have is a, yeah, of the wild west se was settling down. okay. so we started with less for everything on the internet, including everybody's books and everybody's drawings and all the rest of it, and sticking them into our models and make money. okay. that model is now. i think

design guy stays moving. as i said on switzer oaks. i think that model is now becoming almost sustainable. we have a, a lots of litigation guy on that night to play in the last couple of days. the new york times this launched a very, very solid lo seats against the can. i concerning the use of it, the serious story isn't pointing out some of them being reproduced almost entirely . we've seen that narrative already with the images with get see who pointed to the end to get the images being reconstructed completely loca green. i am trusting thing about the new york times seat is that it has resulted from a breakdown a long since they negotiate. i should say another was up to now i was offering new york times enough money. so we are shifting, i think from a paradigm which again, is very sorry sir to be cited. so let's list but it is very sort of american. so to

free, you space or anything this out that to an idea. but this is just like anything else, like licensing means a licensing your will just become a sounds like that. that has to be a negotiations on licensing ways. right. how old is the next? i can see what the shaking is had on that point of outcome. 200 just somebody would just let zooms quickly jump in. no, no i, i appreciate very much appreciate the comments and it's a good point about the new york times. but i think that as remember, it's not just the data of the wall street journal which chat g p t was partly trained on or the new york times. you know that or that is at stake here. and of course, my friends of the writers guild of america were, had, had, we had a major concerns about gender and it'd be taking their own copyrighted content. but it's all of our data, right? it's all of us. and most importantly,

it's not just the european union that's emerging out of the wild west. the internet is largely speaking the wild west still on corporate platforms around the planet. so for me, this is really a question of all of us 99 percent of us around the planet, especially you think about people in, in, in the african continent that are increasingly colliding with these technologies. and just ensuring that we have systems in place where these technological breakthroughs that are driven by and for private corporations using all of our personal data and internet, we all pay for lift all of us up. and i don't know if it's merely universal like income. it could be another way of thinking about. ready labor of the future. so imagine out of the future of when, when i'm thinking of jump in that, because i'm going to go to minute left and the henry i'm, i'm sorry, what i'm going to end with. another binary question for you is the he had twins 24 . is it? should it be a year of caution in the field of a i o a year of excitement? yeah, i'm gonna, i'm gonna have received your best of this. i have to get that by today to be one of

the of us. i might just very quickly. so when i say you are totally a, you know, i is no creative allied, cannot love a one level maybe doesn't philosophically interesting question on a face time. you question, i'm, you know, it may not be crated, but it's replacing crate to people's jobs. it may not be able to load, it might be able to write months, a new generation of young man. and so whether it is on know, doesn't necessarily change the impact, it's how big long the related space. and so i think you know, that that's a, that's a kind of an interesting political question. but the impact is very real and it would be getting into next year by for an exciting entire find ways myself. i love it. i love ending on us for this article on so thanks very much to all of us for joining us today. don't want to be for joining us today. henry, either lilian edwards and remember to share any vast time and thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting a website that's out, is there a dot com for discussion to go to a facebook page that's facebook dot com, forward slash a inside story. it wasn't during the conversation on x. now heinz' as

a inside story for me, laura, kyle, i'm the whole team here is bye for now. the this horse was a non symbol beat from the remains of cars and ambulances. israel talking to during an invasion of that, do you need refugee camp in 2002? now it's been removed by the way people do research. and it shows us where this cultures to. he's proud. he was involved in creating the destruction of one humans, aims to crush their spirit and punish those, showing support for any acts of resistance. kind of chose his 5 year old son, add them photos of them working on this culture and says, the process tells a lot about that. i still need to, i guess. and again, it was supposed to be

a refuse, but social security is brothers. home was allegedly the scene of torture. right. and even murder one. 0, one east investigates the crimes and those set to be behind on, on all of latin america for most of my career. but no country is a like, and it's my job to shed light on how and why the, [000:00:00;00] the hello, i'm sign me say that and this is the news out life from dell coming up in the next 60 minutes. the number of palestinians killed in gauze arises 21672 more than 15000. the women and children.

those who survived this rouse attacks and struggling for food, water, and shelter,