just feels equally unstable. i've been living here since 1994 trying to get a proper dwelling, but there is nothing. everywhere you look homes built for the 1959 revolution are collapsing. yet simultaneously a construction boom is underway. not for public housing, but for hotels last year is a norm as new hotels where knobs are rated and other 5 will be opened by december and more who follow? the majority are owned in finance by guys. the cubic military's tourism company that owns 76 percent, the 5 star hotels and the majority of the rest of this world to be so called economic engine continues to stall. as evidenced by these exclusive old convertibles standing idle in old havana, but lack of foreign tourists for a modest fee, we are taken for spitting by eric, who explains that millions of cubans depend on tourism. we have that on my way to

chain. if i work, i spend money and others make money and so on and so forth. it's what makes the economy run the probation of cruise ships imposed by donald trump has impacted us a lot like his other sanctions. in the last 6 months, only 28 percent of cubans hotel rooms have been occupied and us sanctions on the only reason a piece of can see the charges or poor quality of food, fuel, transportation, and entertainment are also discouraging visitors during the so called golden years when president obama was in office, this whole area was absolutely full. now, as you can see, the streets are empty. there are no tours close to anywhere. so the big question is, why are they building so many new hotels? one clue is that wall emblematic structure. it's like the article review at a hotel room in close. new hotels are being built with government money on property,

not contained in us courts by their pre revolution owners. many speculate the 2 tubes, one party state system, eventually change. they could then be bought and sold. industry officials insist there's simply preparing for a tourism boom. comparable to cuba is pre revolution, days of feet that will take more than just new hotels. you see a newman al jazeera, have that now. what is it for me? tell mccrae so now as it was that website out, is there a dot com has the largest on all our top stories? my colleagues send me site. dan will be here at the top of the hour with much more coverage on the war on gaza. invitations up in the bottom line is a mix. stay with us. the truth is, medical staff are working in solar there to wisconsin. they say the plots butter

gowns, they will speak for the palestinian victim. so israel's war. use the phone. ok? yes, let. the horror is a for 2 years ago and settled in his stomach. he lost $21.00 relatives in casa on october. the 14th is on the payment we live and as a beyond the human capacity. the professors here accuse the israel of competing war transport, targeting health facilities in golf for turkish structures. find the most recent is an appeal to the international community to take action against israel. a. hi, i'm steve clements and i have a question. after months of death and destruction in gaza, how much room will there be for diplomacy between palestinians and israelis? let's get to the bottom line, the in terms of the killing of innocent civilians, israel's war on gods. i have shocked the world and outpaced most if not all conflict zones in the 21st century. worse than some of the deadliest moments of us

war and iraq and the u. s. battle against isis in rock of syria. now most of the 2300000 palestinians in the gaza strip had been displaced. boot is unlimited supply and most hospitals have been destroyed. israel says it's responding to the attack of some off on is really knocked over. they've killed hundreds of israeli soldiers and civilians and trying to make sure that from us can't wage an attack like that ever again. but isn't strategy which has the backing of its patient superpower, the united states really working. and what happens when the fighting ends and the palestinians and israelis have to find a way to live together is neighbors all over again. today we're talking with david from former speech writer and assistant to president george w bush, currently a writer at the atlantic magazine, and most recently the author of, from popular ups restoring american democracy. david, thank you so much for joining us today. look, this is a painful and horrible subject which we have all the eyeballs in the world are

watching october 7th, you know, precipitate as a response from israel. that property is really left and right together in response to basically eradicate him. us and i was caught by your a tweet thread that you tweeted out that began to look at beyond the hor, what do we do when the conflict ends and there is the day after. tell us what you think of the important features of the day after we need to think about. i start with s, as in this matter is a strong supporter of israel and a strong can support of the us is, is really relationship. unlike many americans use, i have family on the front lines and one of my relatives and 2nd cousins. it isn't captivity. as when i speak, he is being he is a prisoner of from austin, probably has been exposed to a considerable abuse. and so we all have a lot of heart in the story. we also need our heads because every war must, in major combat operations in gaza will. and i expect that i hope that when with

a tremendous damage to the command structure of the mos. but that will, as you say, will be behind millions of people and mountains of rubble. how does those people survive? how do they eat, what, what happens next? and how do you come up with some kind of security regimen to make sure that a piece is restored? and that people can go about their lives. so there have been a number of ideas floated and that's where you and i began our conversation. quit is real reoccupied gossip that seemed utterly unworkable. will an international force of some kind of arrive and goss? i don't think you're gonna find many europeans willing to do that because of the risk of being exposed to terrorist attack from whatever remains of, of hamas or other kinds of successive groups. could a confederation of error, governments do it well, you know, better than i how little cooperation there is between eric governments, how much disagreement could the united nation step in? well, they have really discredit themselves. they have acted as fronts from us through

their refugee organizations. there's oh, there's only one security keeper, you can imagine having legitimacy and success and that is some kind of revive palestinian authority. the world has to find a way that i've revived and improve housing authority to re enter garza and i assume the responsibilities of governance there have the palestine authority was set up as a temporary transitional authority to move towards a 2 state solution that came as a result of the oslo accords out there others like salon. 5 whom i've interviewed recently. who think the p a has lost its legitimacy. last is roll because of the failure to deliver and those who need to even go back to the precursor to that. the p a low and find a new way to get legitimacy. so i find you're suggesting really interesting because are you saying that you can restore the policy and 40 and detach it from a true state horizon? and i think sometimes, and i worry in the middle east, a lot about solution isn't. but if you have a, a vision of

a solution and you then judge yourself, i have with your moving toward that solution. when you have an immediate problem, i'm looking at the present, not the future. and just to our audience that you're worried about housing, water systems, you know, the even most basic necessities would you lay up in pretty graphic detail in your tweets about really the horrors i had. yes. there after previous rounds of violence between israel and the boss. there a 2014 being the most recent big one there has. there has been a lot of international investment to rebuild garza, i think people and especially friends of the palestinians, need to be aware that internationally is not likely to be forthcoming in the way it was before because they went into tunnels, they went into the tunnel. so explained to a german tax payer explained to the american taxpayer explain to explain even to people in the persian gulf. right. how. how do you just by writing checks for hundreds of millions of dollars given the history of past abuse. so there will be emergency aid humanitarian, a, but it will be much more modest. and so their solutions that are going to have to

come from garza and they're also going to have to be and i, i understand you've talked to john bolton about this. there's gonna have to be some kind of way that people in the gaza strip can exit. to go find work in play and send remittances home. and one of the rules that persian gulf governments can have is they can offer a work permits to people willing to, to try their hands. so they can earn a living because the aid is not going to flow the way it used to do you see an end of work permits for palace, damian's in israel, because a lot of the transfer payments and the economic activity of both the west bank and gaza was tied to these rarely economy and it really breaks the question, what is real, play a role in rebuilding costs. we have like some day this has to be an economic unit. some day it has to impossible to get on the train in cairo and get off the train to damascus with a stop in jerusalem in between. and all elizabeth area is too small for suit, for so many borders and so much antagonists. but i don't think,

i don't think any time soon. it's gonna be a lot of movement from god's into his real that trust has been forfeited. people because even though the number of people who did the violence is finite, they do seem to have had a lot of information from people who would trust. so the trust will be hard to restore. maybe you can, you can imagine some guidance if they check out finding work permits in the west bank, but don't look for that border between guys and it is real to be reopened any time soon. so they're gonna have to find work somewhere else. because the 8 isn't going to flow the way it used to do, where can they go? and they're going to be tremendous labor shortages in, in the gulf states, and some will be able to go to egypt. and as i said this, we're talking here about remittances. we're not talking about necessarily relocating whole families. many of the receiving governments will be reluctant. but if you say look here at, here's a group of 100 working age man who are looking for a 24 month work permit. so they can earn a living and send money home to their families. i hope the region and they speak

your language. i hope the region will be open, open to all of that, but what the place is going to look is not people are not going to are not good at home, is to go back to where many people will not have homes to go back to the water systems are damaged and the electricity grids are broken and it will take a long time to restore them and the resources for that will be coming from inside garza not so much from the outside world anymore. as you look at things now, and i've, i've interviewed a lot of friends of israel on their show. a lot of military experts generals general betray us, others who have said mos, what's not understood as a mazda is not a body of individuals and people. it's an ideology and the notion that it can be eradicated through this activity is mistaken. we even have the defense secretary lloyd austin saying is real risk strategic defeat in the course that is going now. so my question to you and i know it's, it's complicated, is real, doing the wrong thing at this moment to achieve its objectives of undermining him off and creating a different picture. i'm not a military expert of any kind. i have no idea what i would also say is,

it's maybe the wrong question because there are things that societies are going to do that are inevitable when i'm us launch the october 7th attack attacks and such an atrocious way. it did so knowing that no democratic society could fail to respond in a correspondingly large way. and it was inevitable that his real would respond in this way. it was intended, there was at it. and there just isn't. that's how democracies react when people commit such heinous atrocities against so many of their citizens, especially targeting women and children in the way that almost it. and what will happen, though, when the major combat operations come to an end, as a soon will, politics and israel will begin to resume and they are what will that looks like you think? or will that will look like? is people demands in the street for accountability for getting your uh, to depart your questions about security establishment? um there is, uh so there will be a reckoning. there will be a reckoning and there they're going to be all kinds of other interesting ships.

some people are going to be one of the major things that happened inside this room during this conflict was a search of support for, for the state, from palestinian israel as airbus railways. and you saw these poles that showed an inter, an interest rise and identification with the state. and some will say that was driven by fear more than loyalty. but there has certainly been no reaction within his robe, any kind of security threats from up palestinian arabs. so that was really passports, or i know a lot of is really are, is released jews and they're up to say, what did they get from that? where, where the demonstrations of appreciation for loyalty to the state that's going to be a major divide. meanwhile, there all kinds of settlers with israel's, a jewish settlers in the west bank when israel's hour of need intensified conflict with the error of neighbors as if to open up yet one more front at exactly the time with that front was least need. so there will be dispute, so a lot of people are very, very worried about the west bank right now. as an, as it,

as an escalation about settler provocations. there usually are both. and we've been in recent meetings where i think some government officials feel confident that that is going to somehow be controlled and, and really in 5 years, really government. but you have that confidence because that's one area where i worry what are the blind spots? we're not seeing right now. i have that confrontation where to hit the west bank. you know what, what? not that that would be really uh, disturbing escalation of this. i don't see, this is a prediction. you said, what does politics look like? so one of the issues and politics will be what happens netanyahu. one of the issues in politics will be who is to blame for this security and intelligence failure. and another issue in politics will be those who say we owe something to the israeli arabs. and those who say no, we owe protection to the settlers, and those 2 groups within is really, society will argue, intensely. and there, i think there's going to be a reckoning as well with the role of the, of the ultra religious. there has been an effort to pull the ultra religious in

into the military. is real security needs after this war will be great because it will have to watch natalie. the north where it always watches, not only gaza, it will have to have an ide other kinds of regional threats. the idea that there's this large group of people who exempt themselves from the normal responsibilities of citizenship because of their auto, the gi awesome me. that's going to be question you're gonna have a lot of politics is inside israel, i have no idea how it will work itself out. but the idea that there is an israel, israel has been united in its reaction to get some us. but there are these other questions and there will be important debates. and one of the things that people watch this program, or one of the things that they need to bear in mind is their own agency. you know, all of this, the signals that israel gets from its neighbors. this is a signal for this really gets from the reach israel gets from the region will be what and also have important effect. and if we can move towards resumption of normalization with persian gulf countries, especially saudi arabia,

that opens more space for a less fearful israel to behave in waves and power. the most generous elements in his early society. if it's really felt feel more fearful, you empower the least generous elements and it's really suicide. you don't call for a 2 state solution in that case, which some, some are saying may be dead. some are saying is the only option. but if you think about what you just said about taking pressure off is real, decreasing the toxicity of the moment, looking at a saudi normalization. what do you see an opportunity there? but again, i want to warn against solution isn't. i just think you need to take one step at a time. and i think all of those hopes that were felt so and tight intensely in the 19 ninety's. they are so much farther away than they were. but there are things that you can do today. and i would emphasize, as i did that tweet, dignity for arab citizens of this real respect, equality. and i'm just having a vision of at least there has to be some day economic integrate from the river to

the sea. economic integration. um, you know, and beyond the river to the sea economic integration, i asked for the saudis, i, the by the administration may be kidding itself on the speed at which this is happening because the saudis, i think, i've indicated they want to play in american politics. they want to help republicans, they want to help donald trump, they want her to abide, and i find it hard to imagine that they would hand such a major diplomatic victory to present by them in 2024. perhaps if president biden wins reelection and they have to deal with them in 2025, it will happen that i would uh, october 7th, no october. so what i would not have expected adept breakthrough in the coming year and, but the saudis want it for their own purposes. the whole region has to be, demilitarized has to be normalized. and so long as there's animosity toward israel, this will never be a normal region of the world and the economic prospects, the saudis. imagine the starting leadership imagines they envision the economic

development social normalization within an authoritarian political context. well, it's hard to do that. it's hard to maintain the authoritarian politics and the normal economy at a time of intense competition with, with the, with, with your neighbors in order to just make that formula work and it's a tough formula. you need peace. how would donald trump have manage this differently? you believe and then joe biden, joe biden is suffering in the polls, in part because of antipathy among young democrats about how he's dealing with israel palestine right now. and what they see is being joe biden, just being more pro, is real than they are comfortable with. would it be ironic that that joe biden loses the election because of that loss of support to donald trump over this crisis? donald, i don't believe that really will happen, and i think that when you look more closely, those poles you see by and also confronts people to is right. they've democrats to his right. who say he has not done enough. and the people who are most angry at

biting about is a body support for israel are those where the least likely to vote. you know, one of the questions that they ask these young people is, did you vote in 2020. and among those who said no, they did not vote in 2020. they are much more likely to be on the pro palestinian side right among those who did. so if you're a professional politician, if you don't vote i'm, i'm interested in your opinion as a fellow citizen, but you don't matter. you don't matter. the people vote, they met up how it donald trump handle this. it's unpredictable. i mean, you know, from response to very personal economic incentives and the saudis have enriched his family and have since he left office, they've enriched his family even more. so i think his 1st call would be to that he is very interested in some of the most reactionary elements in his rarely society. he would have listened to them, but because that no one should ever feel secure of any possible response. it is very possible that donald trump would have done something radically and think of

and with, with bite. and i've spoken to diplomats from the region and they have said they missed trump. because with trump, if you paid the right people, you could have a highway to the very inner most circle and then the president could, you could prevail on him. if you've got them in the right mood, he might wish with abiding people. there's always, all this process, there's this bureaucracy and they're very concerned with being consistent. it's very difficult to work with them. but you know what predictability is good and, and bite, and it has that binding is biden, is the most predictable politician probably not in states that not the world. well, let me ask you about that. one of the things is beginning to boost is some states and maybe this is a, you know, cop out with some of the hard core necessities you're talking about the day after and gaza. some states are talking about recognizing a palestinian statehood. you've got obama officials beginning to write new york times op ed saying, hey, we need to recognize palestine as

a state. does that help get us anywhere? oh, let's just see. just a bit. i mean, to pick up yourself living on a street and does that. you've lost whatever the home you had, and there's, there's no possible water, you're drinking water that may be going to make your kids sick. and, you know, there's the, there's electricity on evenly fluctuating. you're terrorized by these governments with their bombs going off. and the idea that somebody, you've never met gibson drive to view it and a big car with a flag on the hood. how you need water, you need drinking water and you need it right now. you need the power to be on. you need the bombs to stop going off, you need the government to be sent away. and then you need to have some hope that the working age man and your family can earn some kind of living and get some kind of money to put a roof back over your head. are there a room and nations that iran may have a breakout year? next year that it may, in fact, became

a fully fledged tense major nuclear power in the world violating nonproliferation arguments, etc. but it will be there, it will be out there as you look back at that. and, you know, part of the issue here is to what degree are we looking at a proxy conflict between different parts of the middle east, the, the iranians versus us in the saudis and, and maybe it is a mistake to look at in that way. but it does talk about what comes next in the region and how it could getting much, much worse and more complex, particularly for us interest. when president obama negotiated the agreement around . i criticized that because i said, the benefits doran are at the front of the deal, and the burden store ran on the back of the deal. who negotiated this with president trump instead? i want to cancel the deal. so you can't cancel the deal because the benefits to rent are already paid. but the problem with the deal is the thing that also makes it dangerous to kind of cancel the benefits are front loaded, the obligations are back loaded. so once the deal has been unfortunately signed,

you don't want to blow it out because that then you blow up your help with getting your part of the deal, which is all in the backend. but they did blow it up and then with help here we are . i, i, i, i think that the right. but if you're raining and take these actions, not understanding the potential for violence and 2024 that you're having, you have an israel that has lost many inhibitions because of the october 7th attack . you have american resources that have been redirected to the region because of the october 7th attack. you have a new solidarity between the united states and israel for all the talk you see in the papers about criticism. my memory stretches back to 73, and even as a boy to the 6, they were never, never as the nighted states, given israel as much security permission as it's given. now this war is soon going to be in at the 3 month mark of intense military action, intense violence that didn't have 1982. when israel,

when it's 11 out after the deal out, they did not get 3 months of permission. and 1973, israel did not get 3 months of permission is all has 3 months of permission and not only from the united states, from great britain and the european union as well. israel has never been allowed this much scope to act. and if i were the radiance i would take that scope extremely seriously. just finally david, i'm, i'm interested in, you know, where this all goes and i, and i want to respect the fact that you're a, you know, post the solution is i'm and, and grand plans. but what you've laid out for the palestinian authority, the responsibilities and the burdens it's going to have to govern in really a horrible post modern situation with millions of people. um, is there a way to think about this again to get the palestinians to be supportive of what you're suggesting that this may 1 day lead to an end to the occupation. and i look for hope to the irish model. so the white piece arrived in northern ireland was it, there was this intense conflicted with all kinds of cultural and historical

royalties. and the good friday accords created a dynamic whereby if you're a protestant, british citizen living in northern ireland, you could have a british passport. and if you're a catholic, a british citizen living in north america, you have an irish passport. if you wanted to think of yourself as british, you could, if you want to think of yourself as irish and quote and then the border between northern and southern ireland as long as went away as long as britain remained of the european union. and you had this moment where the identity you carry in your head and on your papers could be blurred into the identity that existed in legal reality. so i, i looked at that mean why imagine what could the middle east look like? mean it that i would love to world in which the jews were citizens of israel and they might live next door to somebody who was a citizen of palestine. and maybe they voted for different mayors and different lists. but there was one economic unit that traded freely with other elements in the region. but the way the solution to this problem is to make the borders matter

less and to make individual identities and individual loyalties less connected to legal and software and structures. i'm putting national boundaries into the middle east has not brought peace since the end of the ottoman empire. so obviously the ottomans aren't coming back, but that kind of borderless space that existed while the old ottomans were there. that is what the middle east is going to have to be if it's going to live in any categories. will writer and commentator david from i really appreciate you joining us today. thank you so much. thank you, steve. always a pleasure to talk. so what's the bottom line? the outrage created by the war on guys is going to last for generations in the middle east and all around the world. at the same time the gaza strip is going to have to be rebuilt sooner or later. after all this death and destruction rock by israel has it invalidated itself from governing, gaza and the palestinians. us officials say the policy needing authority as quote, the only show in town as impotent as it may appear now. so anyone really suddenly

helped create a reborn, cleaned up palestinian authority with greater resources, power and support from all parties, particularly the u. s, but also is real and the error of neighborhood. and as any one bothered to ask the palestinian people what they liked to have, it still looks like there are 0 alternatives out there. and that's exactly why the international community needs to focus on what can be done rather than what can. and that's the bottom line. the knows garza evacuated the sun. eunice can use the dislocation without animals. 3 weeks time. people are going to die. home, destroyed in brooklyn, city, an area that is supposed to be safe. longstanding is really policy. just shoot anything that moves. there aren't any sit varies in garza. my supposed to sleep on

the street with my children. there's no protection, there's no safe space. this printer is going to be in a huge problem. about a stimulus of living on the desktop. people crowded in very small areas with a lot of diseases from the north to the south, nowhere and district, the se. * unique perspective, tradition, voice for peace is the way for me to take action voices you don't often hear problem. nations do stand with palestine, it's the same service. shared connect with our community and talking to conversations you will find elsewhere. brand new episodes is a stream on the gray christmas is quite literally coming early this year. its decision to move away from both adults calendar to one of their lines with much of the rest of the world meant christmas day itself being brought forward to december. the 25th for the 1st time the children have been lining up to meet said

nicholas in person. be original. santa claus says the most common christmas wishy his is for peace. christmas shows the combined festive themes with a big serving of traditional ukrainian culture. offer an escape, if only briefly from the realities of 2 years of full scale will, as with last year, that will be no large scale events. so fast jamal christmas because of the war, most ukrainian will be celebrating the holiday on a different day to most russians. it's beginning to look a lot like a western style christmas. the, the, [000:00:00;00]

the, [000:00:00;00] the, i'm sammy's i them, this has been use our live from dell coming up in the next 60 minutes. well, food program was it's in