the torture, full types of georgia, it was unbelievable that they would visit us with the bucks of their guns on our heads. 5 soldiers speeding pure revenge, occupied and imprisoned. how does their will is rather availability of the you and the top court scenes. national court of justice has ordered israel to prevent access of genocide and it says it has a month to report on it to find. what does this really mean to kind of send you into a truck and on the inside the header there and welcome to the program i'm install is here to the united nations top court has ordered israel to take measures to prevent genocide and gaza and to

allow in humanitarian aid themes, national goals of justice issued to the ruling on friday. and the case that was filed by some of africa, judges of ocean overwhelmingly in favor of 6 emergency measures that included asking israel to punish those inciting genocide. so how will this really impact as well as war on garza and how much other countries pressure israel to comply? let's continue to discuss about guess, but fast this report from michael apple takes a closer look at the i. c. j's reading. said that in a historic ruling, the world cortez the 10 days, plausible evidence of genocide and folding in garza, a judgment welcomed in palestine. it means that the cries and suffering or fall of people in gaza have been to the great hold of justice. do you ins, top quotes, also known as the international court of justice, says israel must take 6 provisional measures to ensure the palestinian people are

protected and submit to reports within a month detailing it's compliance. so that africa brought the case to the i, c j. choosing as well as violating international lawyers on the side in the territory and it sees the ruling is victory for human rights. the whole purpose was really that this is vital to highlight the plot of the innocent in palestine and to also alert the international community to the great home that is being done to the people of post. i'm these really prime minister's response was one of defiance, condemning the ruling and calling it a disgrace. israel's commitment to international law is on wavering. equally unwavering is our sacred commitment to continue to defend our country and defend our people. a like every country. israel has an inherent right to defend itself.

the vile attempt to deny is real. this fundamental right is blazing discrimination against the jewess state. but still for palestinians, this is a water shade moment. and they struggle from the peroration for me is really occupation and its wall. yeah. and menu and all watching to see how south africa will use this ruling to increase its diplomatic efforts in calling for an in israel is go inside the gaza strip. mike level for inside story. the whole that's not bringing, i'll guess in london we have numerous old, tawny. i read it in public law at so as to be an investor of london. he's also the edison and chief of the palestine yearbook of international and melvin australia. we have jeffrey robinson and human rights virus and also the founder of darcy street chambers, one of the largest human rights legal practices in europe. also joining us today

from london is chris got us, a homeless folks pass and so the u. n. agency for posting and refugees, and also the founder of the me on law accountability projects. i would welcome to you. well, thank you jen, hold on for joining us today on inside story. now the i c j hasn't just said that there's the positive possibility of genocide taking place. it's also implemented these 6 emergency measures. and i know there's been plenty of concerns about the i c, j here not courting for ceasefire, but by my understanding the i c. j only has jurisdiction, but of the states, right? so here it has jurisdiction, or the israel, it doesn't have jurisdiction or the mouse and will be the case. he's probably would actually take 2 parties in order to comply. we've had the from the lady, bundle the south african foreign minister saying, but that these 6 measures effectively amount to the factors these 5, chris, you worked on the ground that what do you make of that is this effectively is he's fine without necessarily cooling it one well, 1st of all, let me say that the i,

c j routing is still the historical historic milestone in the long run to the palestinians, towards dignity and justice and states who and yes, i agree. i hope that it's on the grounds and it is the, it's ready. all me does. well, it's now legally binding. they've been told by legally binding adjustment by the school to, to stop killing. you know, that's the 1st possible ski 2 of the conventions cease actions which hom, both mentally and physically promoting conditions. apply that done see babies being killed. if the idea actually does that, then as a south african subset, it has a day fact to cease like how can you to live a few minutes harry aiden list as a ceasefire? so i think the, some of the quote was very, very clever because ultimately, well they all schooled was american foreign policy tools as well. they said okay, deceased by may be typical, but essentially plain couldn't keep saying in the absence about let's as house a humans to international law. and by the way, the other important thing that was said is it,

it's inclusive. my name is big convention on the prevention and punishment of genocide. i just don't know who made it very clear that 3 people in particular have prime minister netanyahu a defense minister of color. and i'm the president. it's i can't so they are guilty of inciting genocide. and the convention is very clear. they have to be punished and israel has to be pulled back within 30 days on the steps it's doing to implement that. so i think what i say this is a historic ball, so it moves the whole debate about palestine. yes, those books are patient, old mattress humanitarian law. all that much as we can now talk about the law of genocide, the crime of crimes and news organizations and commentate to such as those on a program can logistically lead schools about as well as responsibility to stop and prevent genocide and the state policies. the convention america, britain, they have to bring meaningful pressure on israel. i'm thinking of america's

$4000000000.00 worth of military age and all the diplomatic and political protection in the 6 you as a council, they have to use all of that to see the convention in preventive. we've moved to a new phase and that's why yes, today was truly historic and the mass here. and you're noting that let me bring you in here. no schedule, reflect on the magnitude of this. really. it'd be that agree with chris. this is when you meant the decision by the it doesn't cause of justice. on the one hand was south africa submitted its application to these. it does a couple of justice. it already change the conversation, it change the west and that at the bottom of the war on guys out on the policy and people and know that as a court of justice, the highest court in the international legal system have basic as basically except that the south african, the date is that is of genocide here that this is beyond the simply

violation of international laws of war. and that's this risk of genocide against a substantial part of the best. and people require action, indigent action, 1st of going from the court, but also from all the states. but these are a need to be the discharge their obligation to prevent a genocide. i don't obviously, as i said, the but these are the measures, such as the requirements for me is to allow effective and immediate humanitarian assistance. require scathing down drastically is mandatory at all patients if not a complete a ceasefire because the quote or society. do you want to look at the general who said that you might do it in systems is not possible with the continuation of the a model manager, and these are the minutes of a down incursions. so in order for is that to comply with these provision of the

measures, it has to allow a skating down of the meditation. in addition to addition, as chris said, the political repercussions of this legal routing, far reaching on the one hand, it includes a special on his right of both, internally, externally. we so internally, that is a lot of this confidence. now it, because the war hasn't attributed sam's degree of names by the say, government, the families of the hostages are now increasingly that protesting that is a beginning of progress against the war and some anxiety, cities. and there's a few sessions in the media that the hosts go long in the war for his political survivor. and now, externally, this rooting will embarrass all of the rest of them back as of, as i'm because now they have been possibly supporting

a genocide. and now any action they will be taking would be just a visa, the, their obligation to prevent genocide mean i want to get into this think realty of, of all those federal consequences and just a moment. but i want to pick up on something that, that chris mentioned earlier, your use the phrase legally binding. we know this ruling is legally binding, but crucially, the court, the i, c, j does not have an enforcement mechanism. we've had already from prime minister benjamin s. and yahoo, he says that he's rejected the ruling outright so it doesn't look like as well as likely to comply with what the court is asking for here. jeffrey, let me bring you into this discussion. what legal recourse is there. if israel says no, we're just not going to do it. and there is no legal re cause the court. the same court almost 2 years ago will generate an order against russia, were cut and most recently disrupted the order and broke from the law or against

aggression by invading an innocent country, namely, quinton and ukraine went to the cold and the cold, immediately and unanimously. old russia to pull seats. um the clothes need didn't pollutants who is massive or crude oil. many people refused. and so winkleman was not both. yeah. but i do see that the importance of the ruling goes be on the age of mean for should been woochie because this is not russia. everyone has to do the right thing because each car whip is israel as a nuclear weapons. but it depends on the support of western

powers, particularly the united states. but also you will see in countries and if there's one horse fly that is being used by western countries in the home and t on the go, as it will ease. we might use room must be international rule and these rooms at best it so is bounded cells indeed support it to into an actual now the quote by 1st of all except be the case for the school to do is fix. that was the main issue, and that's the issue. the easy way of loss. so is it cool? big say is it? so it's complicated to google who is and does give a few will. first of all, the cool use that mess should release

unconditionally little hostages. this uses to obscene, to be taken from east with the 2nd order and perhaps it moves to quote because it is uh, enforced by permission from these rooms backers is that you should leave the restroom style, wage and about to medicare and convoy. you see. and then there are other or do search it easily and with no doubt say it is complying with and what i well let me jump in the frame because i. ready was like you mentioned a very important point in which was minutes, the civilian, so sorry to sorry to interrupt you jeffrey. i just want to pick up on something that you were saying that about allowing access for aid. and one of the interesting things that i noticed was that i'm in this case. so in this particular case,

by south africa and israel also appoint judges to sit on the quote. so instead of the regular 50 and there were, there was 17 and the, the is really judge voted for 2 of these messages in favor of them to punish incitement to genocide and also an aid access. and, and primarily because israel, by my understanding is it's saying that aid is ready on handed. chris and someone who used to work for other um, let me ask when you make of that a session. well, i think he's absolutely right. so i think it is right as an he's really a highly respected is really does. he was actually in charge of these really supreme court when i was a spokesman for and i went to the supreme court. i was amazed and delighted by how he was trying to professionalize. so you, so pretty cool, so he's highly respected, but yes, i think like a lot of people in israel, he's also be disgusted by the fact that the politicians that have made it so easy for the south africans to make their argument about the intentionality. behind the

genocide of threats, which with very, very clearly put by the south africans. i think also this question a few minutes here in a, it's absolute be the case, but it has together that is a collect to publish modes to, you know, more than houses because the strip of children and even more home women. so, you know, it's, it's, it's something which is a little somebody has to step up to see about a turn obligation. but if i may look at the officer free, if i get this off to have something really quickly when jeffrey talks about the lack of enforceability of the job and what about state policies, what about the other 150 volts? signatories took inventions. surely as we're seeing in america, we're in the federal cause in california, biden and clinton. and all students are being accused both of a complicity in genocide and failing to prevent genocide when it comes to enforcing what we heard yesterday. strongly. but judgment of a cold gave us chris to the middle of those people in choose fictions who are

trying to hold the state all tunes to account for failing to implement the genocide convention body of thoughts. i'm not jeffrey my thoughts. so that's a very clear because i think the court was scrupulous in not finding the but israel had committed genocide. you just simply said, each ease of your and they, she, she pointed out the kind of statements that so the president and the defense minister had been say about how does the news be animals should be put to issues books, the kind of genocide to intact with shoes but in fact there is another mentor traditional and this really is not committing genocide because easy is seeking to wipe out

a mass for cheese of code with me to organize ation. and so you choose the eighty's in the face committing a list of side if you like that, but not tennis because he's acting out of attacking the same thing. so these are all the land down the line is rose, right? this, let me jump in to jeffrey because a lot of these discussions going to happen as we look at that. the broad a case, the genocide case which could take is as, as we've seen. i want to bring in the may here because i could see your in your met shaking your head as chris was speaking. and i also have a subsequent come to a subsequent question within your conversation gentlemen. which was around this question of intense and we have had a lot of the statements from very senior government officials. and one of the

requirements of the ruling from the i c j was to punish the incitement to genocide . and what am i talking about? and politicians who perhaps have have some level of immunity. i'm curious about how that's supposed to take place as well. no, let me bring you in. so yeah, that kind of might not of a disagreement with chris was the respect to the description of the hot on buck. so i, and of course, the only gets cold. others have a key since 2007 being the right thing about the ways in which i don't. but i need you to memorize the occupation of that pit. and we call him to, to a diplomat judge because his liberal and rhetoric, his human rights in the image of the active as the judge image actually was used by is right. and including that and so on into this, i'm for to whitewash is right across and under his leadership of the supreme court. and this will be a part of high system that has it consolidated. and the occupation became much more

brutal when he was appointed to the as an, as a judge. and there's a cause of justice. there's an immediate set. okay. now this is the time to examine what hold on. buck has been sending them a thing them for decades that just show does it show review expansion insight as well. we protect is right and as many soldiers from persecution on the world stage, and that the high court would be a sheet and forward as well. on the international level, and indeed in his uh, the elect, separate support for the investigative justice. he checks the genocide deposition. here to jack's the, to the genocide the just hasn't been done. and he said, is that he agreed with these 2 measures because he thinks or his right was already complying with these. i didn't need his impulse shut up the was question because in november he gave a statement to the globe and mail the canadian newspaper in which he said that he

thinks is idle, has been compliant with international humanitarian law. so he is a biased judge. that was appointed by his own, specifically for a symbolic value. unable to provide the counter another. now with respect to your question, the eh, negation, this right? is that to be, have to punish for these statements of incitement to a genocide of the obviously the problem is that the, this statement had been sort permanent. so the domain on for 3 months inside this wire, that it's mainly can be separated from actual state policy because why that is and for 3 months not do anything about these statements. even though they were daily on the v by senior officials by members, they said by army generals, etc. and now they stand up hughes. that's eh, by say, by fanning this, does it or big issues on the original. it just has convention because it did not

prevent these statements. they did not punch the statement and the only attempt to do anything about these statements was after south africa submitted an application . indeed, this shows the importance of the south africa and application again. and it's an, as christmas pointing out, so it has changed the narrative. and this rooting certainly has changed the narrative within the context of this new narrative that we're talking about. i want to ask you, jeffrey, i'll go too fast about the trade treaty because i was looking at the phrasing and it prohibits parties from um, transfers, if they have knowledge of the time of authorization to be on, well items. would it be used in the commission of genocide, crimes against humanity, great breaches of the geneva conventions attacks directed against civilian objects or civilians protected as such or other war crimes? so what is now at stake here when we, when we using the phrase genocide and the genocide convention, what's at stake here for country is like canada, the u. k. and,

and crucially the united states. and i'm glad you picked up on that because that jesus, because one of the great question and there are already protest south side main factor e. so should prime as for trends commission to issue and then for use it may be in non genocide or context, for example, providing the file hybrids and, and meetings of a peacefully. ready numberless forcefully stopping protest. there's always been a question about that. but if you can identify a shipment of all sleep, cuz to, uh, the on the yes, it's a different for, for us as well. so the quest of all making

a whole bunch of indiscriminate bombing, which can be visited by killing civilians, killed all most ha, uh children under the age of 18. and this is one of the red line cities route has reached lee killing children. and then eat can be i think the decision can be crazy dna for injunctions showed by the pro palestinian groups of both these groups in version and canada. but again, there are limits because these judgment does not say and it's very careful not to convince is way over all the genocide it should be says

there is a the minutes to be made. and so it may take you. ready to that, to come up the evaluate as a matter of it and say, mean gathered to the next. i want to ask about a little more about enforcement because one possible route that's been suggested is the united nations security council. the meeting again on wednesday to discuss garza obviously, up until now the us has vetoed multiple resolutions trying to stop the pricing of the security council. now that we have this ruling, if there is a resolution that that's proposed at the security council, as there is seemingly likely to be in line with the measures that have been described by the i c j and it's ruling doesn't then put a huge amount of pressure on washington, not to re to because essentially and then let me put this, this question to you. chris, essentially a veto would be a vote against what the u. s. has always been a proponent of a rules based international. yeah, absolutely. i think that's will,

is one of the things that so clever about what the court has done because it's judgements a cool, it's almost a 100 percent with american policy tools. israel, it's not to mom did a 65. i'll do that. it's a de facto see spot and the cool to say it's well have to abide by and then the judge laid out a whole series of stipulations which ends we play, can come himself entirely agrees with. so i think it's going to be very, very difficult for the american southern pines will come and it's huge pressure it to make sure that original a visa and the other. why the question i think is us so much of the other conflagrations in the middle east. for example, the who these are folding off the is really let's genocide against garza. and as the cools, especially, i think that the americans will also be aware that if it does veto this, then the and that's fueling, that's why the conflagration in the middle east will become the protocol. does very

quickly say that the point i was making about the rock is that within the israel itself, cheese revision and the fact that she has basically pray. and he's probably behind publishing nets and yahoo makes it very, very difficult. i think politically, it's a real problem. so that's the i was expecting from adams. i know very well will tell the students thing to pick. and i totally agree. i want to pick up on, on where we started this discussion, which was how long you mental this, this ruling really is. new met the global south for a long time has felt very marginalized when it comes to international institutions . and the way that the cases, particularly africa, for instance, have been treated. so let me ask you, does the ruling that we've seen this week? does it, does it change things for south africa? does it doesn't restore some face, perhaps in international institutions spend, nor any filled africa and for palestine, but also the product level. so what 1st time i'm supposed to with the suggestion that the physical justice routing accords with american foreign policy,

i think the it as a couple of just as routing is in fact what's the shame on where some countries include in the us, who basically went treating the parts of the states and that all of his like as well as above the intent as an older and older claims as a off rulers based older. since the beginning of the symptoms, the police had been exposed as hypocritical, selective as basically non existent when the victims are not. why to to be ends or north american. so this, hey, police missed also do a question which is the 1st time in this case. um, this is a situation of genocide and guess is the most test for the international law. it shows how international law fails to protect it. what is it basically considered as expensive of the population's combat?

how difficult it can not a quote compared to how the home wisdom was treated ukrainians, and ukrainian civilians and victims of the indeed how the about double standards. yeah. with how posting intent being treated to south africa, making this claim is challenging the international legal system. this done by this, it has to for the international legal system. indeed, i'm afraid we'll leave the discussion now for now. it's a, it's obviously a conversation we'll be having again, and we'll be following this case very closely as it continues on its way through the quotes for now there. thank you to or about guess new muscle, tiny jeffrey robinson and chris got us and thank you to for watching. remember, you can watch this again any time by visiting our website on to 0. don't com for further discussion and do go through all facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash a inside story. remember, you can also join the conversation on x. a handle is at

a inside story for me to start as you pay and the whole team here, the what constitutes exempt. so we can talk your see, i want you to start with just the facts rather as to what happened as independent. we won't be, we want the education. my wants to be the we don't have lead them in the policy of it's going to get 50 percent representation and accountability and benefits. know what that was and services, this placement and you're saying you don't have your reports for that. i should just trust the community. austin is 5 times the crew that used to produce outstanding gentleness and elders. the integrity in the pursuit of

the the alarm serial. the news good to have you with us. this is the news our life from doing coming up in the program this hour is really forces setup check points in hon . eunice for what palestinians say is a campaign of arrests and humiliation. displaced by war, cold and hungry. heavy rain makes life even more difficult for palestinians in overcrowded camp since 7 got a number of israel.