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hello there and welcome to the program. i'm nora, kyle palestinians, displaced by as well as will ongoing. so have crowded into rafa in the south of the strip is where the ministry had previously described the city as a safe sign, but daily strikes are intensifying and a ground offensive is planned. putting 1500000 people squarely in the line of fire . there also reports of a possible space 5 day oh, between as well and how much. however, prime minister benjamin netanyahu says, as well as a salt on ruffled, we'll go ahead no mass of water. is there any hope for palestinians traps in the city with no way to go until everything stopped as well as ground operation? will control panel and just a moment, fast friends, and want to have this report. israel's bombing of gauze, as for some more than one and a half 1000000 palestinians to take refuge in rough up their living conditions are

dire. there is no water or sad taishan. food and basic necessities are in short, supply and diseases are spreading through the makeshift caps, the value for the women. my son has contracted hepatitis virus because of the unhealthy and unclean conditions we are living and we are living in attend, that cannot protect us from cold or rain. in addition, the entire surroundings are dirty. the whole area is searching and polluted. hunger . colds and disease are devouring our children, but soon things make it even worse. israel is determined to launch a ground assault on the city. well, there's been talk of a potential ceasefire prime minister benjamin netanyahu says it would only delay the military offensive, which he says is essential to defeating a moss. and ensuring is rarely security. we cannot leave a quarter of a mazda is terrace battalions intact. no one would do that in the case of the fighting isis. you wouldn't leave a quarter of isis intact in

a defined territory. you wouldn't even think about that and you didn't. america finish the job with its allies. we will finish the job here with our brave soldiers . the united nations and agencies of ward ground incursion into rafa with lead to civilian deaths is made even israel's biggest allies. the united states, as i said now, is not the time for an assault that no attacks on rafa should, should take place, given current circumstances, and we will keep pressing that. we know we've heard what israel has said. they have not gone in to attack rafa. and we will keep engaging and urging and pushing in that direction to ensure that that does not happen. a seatbar will get palestinians and reprieve after months of environment and deprivation. but evan is really ground offensive, does come. there may be no way for them to get out of harm's way. fits and monahan

ultra 0 for inside story. the well to unpack the significance of an attack on raffle. we've got a panel of gas with a range of political, humanitarian and ministry expertise for you here in the castle, capital the hall, we have a question. he documented he's a senior diplomatic correspondent of post. he's covered us policy on garza since the obama administration in colorado, not so shala is the country relations manager with the agency oaks fund. she was a resident of gauze and involved in the u. k. patrick barry is a senior electra and security of the university of buff, specializing, and wolf and counter terrorism. he's also served in the position army in afghanistan, and i will welcome to all of you our quote of thoughts with you. why is it, do you think the nation, yahoo government is determined despite the outcry from the corners of the world to

press the head with a ground offensive and rush by. and it's try to, laura it's, it's a reality that reflects the failure of israel's us thought. defensive involves a sofa, right? we're approaching 6 months of the floor. and israel has not been able to meet the kind of test blow to him us. but they promised they wouldn't that a lot of these really public wants them to. so that's why you see pregnant. so netanyahu's thing, regardless of whether it as a sci fi, regardless of what it as a cruise, he will eventually go into rough. uh, and that's because he's arguing that's where that some of the leadership, that's where there is. uh there are remaining hostages and that's a, that's a huge strategic value to israel. right. israel is saying they want to control god in a way that they never have before the especially ones who control jobs of southern border with egypt. all of that puts israel at odds with the us as, as a report mentioned. because the us, the thing, look you can see what

a loss you cannot go into a place that you called a safe. so that will just what's in these, this perception of ethnic cleansing, of genocide as a nice case continues. but what does that mean? yahoo administration, i think that's a clear impetus to the 5 of us on this and that. so as i said, this is a being declared, the so called safe zone. the full, most of the goals and population of crowded into the city that was designed to sustain 300000 people. we now have a 1500000 people living that mostly in tents. can you describe for us the humanitarian situation that in rafa. yeah, i mean it's very obvious that we are now talking about uh just i know the extreme doesn't the station and. busy has been already with missing dots. we have been already running off of this devastation under human suffering at the casualties, but also the human suffering that it's, that this uh, this crisis has been uh,

unfolding. unfortunately is between now about these pages where things are extremely critical at all levels and humanitarian workers have not been able to operate by maybe 3rd of the capacity, according to you m records in terms of the stuff and the teams and alterations out until this moment so you would imagine after central creation how, how this would be impacted a lot of i in deals and, and the non non, because i mentioned organizations that age where, cuz i've been re establishing something kind of structures and, and um, stations 2 or 2 or 3 days from now all of this wouldn't be compromise and again the, the flow of the, of, of people to. busy any place, i mean, 1st of all of us started by saying this is the safest one we,

we understand. and it now is right in terms of what the things on mean. it has always been uh, violated and far from being safe as civilians have been a tough but those have been in it. agency is have been directed to the head we know about to a piece diety owns office as best as of friday. the hits and convoys have been had, so you had already talking about it as, as a very and already have a french on and, and by native situation. so trying to imagine now 75 percent of the population of because to enough what, what, what could be any, any, do you really needs all these panelists to tell you what to imagine if israel has an incursion, what, what's the integration? i think it's fairly clear that we are going to see more uh, more stuff. think of more people especially bundled. uh huh. at people in what se, but the in gaza strip according to all kinds of studies and all of the work that

we've been doing at tennessee and that they are in need of. okay, sure let's, let's bring that and that's what that's bringing patrick at this stage. because he's got direct experience of, of, and wolf. i'm probably not even talking about of and wolf. i in the usual sense here. all we were talking about a 10 said city could you give us an idea of militarily, what's a ground invasion into a rafa would look like a ton, i mean, you know the planet and so this will be probably base rent 2 options either have a conventional approach which is why is rather mainly use so far about is about the . busy 3rd about before i got the city and that in about 10 units, which is fire, power heavy and reliance on taking territory. and obviously pretends are buying and destroying a mass combined bonkers and positions. and also, as we know, you know, the hospitals accept or which is res views collateral damage and a huge amount of civilian casualties as

a result of that. so that's the bottom of the 2nd one and understanding the a much more intelligence lead, more targeted approach, which we've actually seen a few, a few uh, elements all start to develop. and the 2nd phase of the war and con, units when they started to, here's how much leaders individually in different places is to get into a model more targeted intentions based special forces. and even in terms of counter insurgency approach, which is less forceful and much more targeted, use rate is actually pioneer this after the bought it in 2006 unhealthy. ringback or an even earlier unhealthy us pioneered against the kind in a rack you know, and around that time to something know have to do is uh, but the question is the political imperative and these are the goals, it's like coming back to what yeah, 9. he says, he says that there's $25.00 conventional battalions or something, a corner of the tibetan. you mentioned at the time in flat and so they are ranking, it needs to be got all the support. i have to be a time internally that's just keep rolling. i mean i,

i find that i understand the fear from use varies of course, but from a, from the western energy perspective, the inability to protect civilians at such a scale of which these marries have demonstrated is really beyond comprehension. to me as a former military officer, and we've seen this not to mention the daily bombing of calls that despite it being a safe so in just on monday night we had 8 civilians killed in a house near the q 8 hospital. that was talking fi and as strike, do you think the pulse of the reason for these strikes could be that they are clear in the way full of ground invasion? i it's well you would. that's hard to say. you know? absolutely. but i didn't tell it and they will all of us. we have some sort of intelligence and expensive, a targeting style, they'll do their collateral damage assessment. and when the. ready treatment says city of the target and balance versus the collateral damage staying the west. for

example, when we were in afghanistan, we wouldn't be able to use this sort of weapon system if there was any hope that it has to be, might be killed, that israel inside what we're going through this process. bullets are actually weighing off how many civilians is uh acceptable for. they submit it to targeted different. so that's what's going on. my, what you would expect to see a bit altering offensive is expected. i would say some more on barman. some special forces raised some attempts to really clear on an outbreak then uh the uh, the remaining cavity around probably into sections and probably see quinn's should he go into them bad? potentially. i called the us very clearly saying it's will not support a rough invasion until it sees a clear evacuation plan. no one has been present, announced is really bull cabinets. we don't know the details of that, but can we imagine who is the us? i'm asking, what's the evacuation of one point? 5000000 civilians would look like to. it's unimaginable. it's unprecedented.

unimaginable that is a lot of capacity in the us government. much larger than these where the government, i'm military within the us aid and machinery that isn't the capacity to imagine it's about creation. so it's, it's really tough to imagine these readings have a realistic plan for this. and i think that's why you see us officials saying very openly and we really haven't, the rhetoric has suddenly shifted. right. ultimately, the, another thing is route and you cannot do this. you've seen them say this in washington, but also importantly in new york at the united nations. right. whether us is not talking about a ton pricey 5 for the 1st time ever. i think that's because of the strategic implications that are off or offensive. the humanitarian tool would be undoubtedly huge, right. but let's think about a region that's already on the nightstand. let's think about the fact that run the bond is now less than 2 weeks away. tensions are really high, extremely high in the occupied westbank as well, extremely high and through the slim on the us. as looking at that picture and thinking is rough uh,

becomes different blood bots that it's all set in to become whenever they go in a when that happens. what, how do, how does the region react, right, how to iran and it's proxy react the us have a feeling strategy to wonder who it is and getting. right. the us is concerned about his beloved on how does everyone react to this right now israel and the us to will have on. so it's about, i think what's critical does is just when will the us decide to use it's leverage and terms of actual military unintelligible support. we know that providing for this campaign when will not be called into question rather than just having a rhetorical shift. absolutely, because that's what point is, is real going to listen to? well, the opinion anyway, i mean that has the ability, we've seen to stomach extraordinary collateral damage and it does just seem to be forging ahead with the most extreme right wing views in the nation. you all who government, who clearly do want to go into rafa who wants to go in. right. and who,

who, who has a narrative that we've seen very, very openly from this government saying not only do we want to, you know, punish palestinians wholesale, right? for the actions or from us, but we want to take full control of casa, right. you've seen them use the phrase from the river to the see which are honestly israel support and sort one is real critics using. but the other thing that so that means they have to kind of have this huge advance, i think what's, what's critical to remember those, the us and israel will be paying the price for this for months and years and decades to come. right? so while it's real can stomach or the criticism today and finish its opperation so you know what went done? what does this mean for israel's ability to survive in the region for the next 5101520 s. i think that's the really scary question. well, let's just put that to patrick means said to us, pull the plug on its weapons, didn't every today, how much stronger could it continue? actually general, what i want to pick up on is, is the last person contributors point for us,

which is now he's exactly right. i think israel is starting to lose sight of the strategic situation here in favor of the operational. yeah. and it's alienating the bowl in the west. it is happening that it needs. yeah, it's a uniting as i'm in the us. and if it goes into rafa, i don't think they really understand it. i know where they're coming from. say they're, they think this is a 5 neighborhood. we have to show that we are told we have to deal with this head on someone else would have to deal with it again. and we'll just take casualties again. so i understand where they're coming from. i understand what people haven't got on support. i understand up to this point to a degree, although i think the collateral damage problem is terrible. i. but here's my fear here. for example, if they go into this in the longer room, that's it. and that if i was working in his writing security i the vehicle to the defense, it's okay, but just to let nasa pick up on us and bring them,

bring it back into the discussion. do you think that as well as any and they taking the west fast enough because it doesn't seem to be paying any attention? exactly. it's not paying any attention. i think um, the west doesn't see the uh, can i please the united states is not making any and any pressures about not worth reading stuff. i mean again, is just saying gap. make it lighter with the with just don't can too many people. i think this language and, and so far the behavior don't like supplying a military assistance like like things are totally supported and, and i'm totally and norman and tell us that unfortunately the us will not be getting a good thing, but enough pressure is about to we are hoping for and is there a really doesn't, can look at what's happening after the i c j. i think we have seen how the age flow has decreased significantly after the i c j a good thing. i think everything that

is true is uh is doing simply contradicts. busy i mean, i mean, all these pressures over the international humanitarian law or any of that. so i wonder if we are now saying this level of pressure talking about talking about that as if yes, they are frustrating them and stopping them. and no, i think things will unfortunately be uh, continue to be really bad and we are losing people vitamin as people are suffering . no, going to the weird when people go i have a friends and relatives that they, they literally ask the question, where are we going? do we go up north where there is old destruction, where there is no fluids, where people are literally dying out actually dying from hunger. we are seeing reports on depths of children to hunger. we don't that 15 percent are at

this risk of sounding and i mean what, what else is it to? is it the word or the u. s. a waiting for? i don't know what to put on with that. it's obvious. i think i think the whole international no, and the world a system had still to they say, and i think this is not so this would be, this would have its implications on any upcoming uh, any upcoming situation. like this one toner, they think 30000 people can that more than 60000 insurance, they are unable to find treatments you are talking about. at best case has 200 trucks entering wired in the past 3 weeks. we have seen up to 40 or 50 trucks or the non of n y. we know that that also serves needs at least 500 in the, in the, in the best se, a scenarios before this, why it's under located for 17 years. i mean the but i can pull it up because i just want to pick up on that question of where people will go. we come back to it time

and time again. garza has been decimated. there is no way to go inside, especially new west safe and the u. n. has that is not going to be policy to any movement of people, force displacement at cool that i want to ask you what you think of satellite pictures that we're seeing on the board with egypt, where we see them preparing a buffer zone by we see them preparing a rolled come car, i was denied. but and the thing is happening the but does nothing yahoo perhaps does the us even see a route out full palestinians by the rough of crossing into this line. i put it so in egypt, cairo has denied it unimportant. the lower that they don't want us talking about it . they have actually gone off to journalists who have been reviewing the creation of this one. that's the only way then egypt. so that's important thing to remember, but it's undeniable that is happening. um, it would be a disaster for egypt which important, remember the egypt is also a key us out. all right, biggest hard country to very close. the american military. the us has said, we will not let this happen, but again,

we haven't seen the us use that leaves us to prevent any broad scale pushing the site. i still think it's unlikely it's just because egypt vs seen the opposed to it . um and i think many palestinians would be very opposed, right. that's important. tremendous something like 80 percent of coffins are themselves descendants of refugees, of, of displaced people. they do not want to feel the are being pushed out of that land yet again into another foreign space with no guarantee or when they could return. and i do just want to pick up on the point about northern prospects. i think that's a really important point as well, in terms of the us olivas to alleviate this, they feed zoom out a little bit for us, one for us to be talking about trucks, right? 40 trucks, 200 truck $500.00 trucks would eat at splits and, and even some people then government of thing is that is just a to range to measure. we cannot be taking in those tons, let's thinking a big a sense of whether off all gets assigned in northern casa. and there are many entrances to israel that could be used to bring in humanitarian need,

is the us. and israel chose to do that right now, the not choosing to do that. so i think as what the looking at rough, um least, and we think o can they do this? and so i'm kind of assuming we that would take care of the civilians but allowed them to meet the military objectives. the record is very clear, right. and, and the actual us leverage in terms of taking care of, as palestinian civilians has not been use and be on seeing any statement from the us or any open it from the authority side to, to laptop shape the, the operation and rasa. patrick. we know that the, the is where the all me is in the nose in the, in central god, i mean is across the whole of the strip. it is still trying to hold on. the still slicing baffles in the north end of a pumps have gone to a con units. how give us an idea of how difficult it is to hold onto an area on one front, was launching another offensive on another, does as well have the results is to cover the whole of the strep. in a word?

yes, i think it does, i, it's bank strategic worry was a lot of tax on that or we saw offices on finding, but it never really got to the explanation level of, of, of around activating a proxy and a major strategic way. which is that is about fighting on 2 funds such as the worst case. ready scenario it has enough to do that, it's that it said something that the reserve is home, but it does have the military power as it were a to change and whole brand in, in, in the time you and this guy, the city, and then and wrap up the difference is, of course it's going to be somebody will visit the pockets of resistance that are left or finding like an insurgency. you know, they can hi, it's making blended with civilians that are kind of just styles and fine. i've been in the, in the already phases and so they're going to take cost with you. there's going to be intermittent bottles as a whole tunnel network that that's now finding through. so, but this isn't that the scale that we saw in the, in the, in the initial finds, of course, you know, if you look at actually the way the casualties have gone, it's gone. it was very fast to 15 days and 35 to 20. and then started to slow down,

you know, and one way thanks a lot of that. it's all too much, you know, still, i wouldn't say just coming back to the other contributor by the west. you know, there it is growing you how the us air force person the memo they themselves, the day. it's not. view is radio this. yesterday you had to bbc leading with stories, guys, and 5. these are the 3 brothers over the, you know, over and on their website today and yesterday, and you had the judge reviews, you know, by law the court ordered them to stop supplying is reading the parts for the ex 35 jet. so there is me moving, you can say, yeah, it's not good enough. the governmental level, you have the car and in spain table motion and i train deals and i'm surprised it is around to so there's things happen. but maybe, obviously not enough, not to your goals or a residence because that's an yahoo saying from day one. but he will not stop until he has total victory and to him total victory is the elimination of how much. so i think that has been a, a stepping back in that rhetoric over the few months and the acceptance that you

simply cannot eliminate how much in golf so, so what do you think total victory would look like financing? yahoo? i mean that's a good time. i'm not sure if i have a intelligent answer, but as i've had a student and he hasn't gone and i think it is the same thing. am wants to control the box because the strict and wants to control as much as possible from the past. and you've done that doesn't really care about any in the agreements in the past or the, or the function you in the front of the you know, trying to look for the change. but that's, that's my personal it as a palestinian and unfortunately i'm, but i'm telling what it does to i would never be able to go back and, and, and the same for me. those who are now in gaza or i'm just going to see good refuge . i think that's, that's already somebody shopping. now there is 1948 and kind of us and now your

knowledge about the sense sense that they are we rush or not, or there's to me in october 15th. uh huh. well, how much is the us considering the day off to the wall in gauze? what is the plan for the governance of the strip for the rebuilding of the strip? is it focused enough on this the us plan? i thought spoke news of this in january. the us plan is it very much focused on an israel us saudi arabia deal that would allow saudi funding to come in. maybe some of the arab states to come in and help reconstruct gaza and a published city and a 40 that does not include from us dots. that's what they want. and that doesn't mean they can get the right. i mean, you've seen this week of summary shuffling on the policy and political side, but me ins towards a new policy and government for the west bank and gaza. but all of that to see these are both floor plans and right now we still don't have

a plan to end the war until question from that in yahoo! total victory. i think that's just not a victory. right? that, that is real complaint. but i think that's, that's sort of the, the issue here right now is, is really, is the side, the sole fractured netanyahu. himself is so alienated. i agree, right? and desperate to cling on to follow that. i don't know when we can get israel turning around and saying, ok, well done. so what posts will conversations are happening. i think you could get some sort of the near of stability. you fill in the seeds of huge and stability to come and, and just goal of eradicating him off as you mention, even the, as the radius of kind of drawn back from that right now, the thing, what i'll eradicating much of degrading right and, okay. and then what you do, right? so the 3 us on line when, when the research and they've already been researching, i mean the woman there is where the forces in godsa, i have jane st. plannings happening yet in washington or tele fees. okay. it's been a really interesting discussion today. thank you very much,

everyone for joining us. act boss i had ok with. and that's the show. and patrick barry, i'm thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website that's out, is there a dot com for further discussion to go to a facebook page that's facebook dot com, forward slash a inside story. it wasn't during the conversation on x or handle as, as a inside story from me laura kyle and the whole team here is 5 and the a unique perspective. that's the place himself does. told the palestinians to go to on heard voices, to humor. i try to highlight the absurdities inconsistency, but upon proceeding the landscape, connect with our community and tap into conversations you will find elsewhere to

take every day. this is going to unspeakable, hard to really alone about what's happening because of the death and media attention. the stream on out to 0, we know what's happening in our region. we know have to get to places that others can all, i want the are god by the parties on purpose, to have the time and it to go live on the go live. another story that may not be mainstream the, the way that you tell the story is what can make a difference. the latest news as it breaks. and i think it's very blue case. the used to be able to face up to 37 kilometers out to the scene, but don't anymore from the hall. so the story, this is how this experience, this is randy ministry, occupation, paula, to tax the legal supplements. and then grab with detailed coverage. the 1st

situation in the global group is worsening. at least half of the population already starving. the . ready a panic and chaos in northern gaza as is really soldiers fire on palestinians collecting food from a distribution center the i'm how much i'm room this is algebra live from don't also coming up a does air drops into gaza as the you in wars that is real is systematically preventing a trucks from reaching those in the we support a ceasefire and.