a tragedy and yes of violet, but it doesn't matter where you are. you'll have to be able to relate to the human condition. the i've been covering all of latin america for most of my career, but no country is a like, and it's my job defense life on how and why. the thoughts of haiti are under a state of emergency after an escalation involves games of taking control of most of the capital if they want prime minister ariel on race house. so what's behind this unrest? what would it take to restore long lasting stability to the country? this is inside story, the

color and welcome to the program. i'm joe. know how hate is capitalism war? that's the warning from the countries director of national police for the prompts has been overrun by gangs. the state of emergency has been declared off. the gang members attacked to prisons freeing several 1000 prisoners. the security situation west and off the president of juvenile moyes was assassinated 3 years ago. 4 months protest as have been calling for prime minister ariel on re to step down. they're angry about delayed elections. the rising cost of living and in security, the united nation says the violence for $300000.00 people to leave their homes this year. while the foreign minister has like of the situation in haiti to a, was a to help restore order, the un has proposed sending a multinational force. so what's led to this crisis and these international intervention, the way to resolve it, we'll discuss. so one of that without guests in a few minutes, but 1st this from let me close to the chevy as a country in

chaos. heavily um gang. swipe seize control of haiti's main at fort on monday. exchanging files with police intelligence. the attack is the latest and then explosion of vitamins that's included the escape of several 1000 inlets from the countries to biggest presence, leaving some co, few in emergency measures on place with the funding is escalating. it's forcing businesses and schools to close and hundreds of people to flee for safety. since the day i left my house, i've lived like an animal because in the space for sleep, even animals don't sleep. there were crammed together. the gang sled by jimmy chevy to a former police officer known as barbecue of trying to over to the government, prime minister of your andre traveled overseas, trying to get support for the un back security force. but the address was sent in

his absence. the situation is getting worse, the national police can do nothing. it gets found guns only a military force can help us in this situation. in 2019 and increase and few prizes left to protest and escalated into a long drawn out crisis involving job losses. vases and the cost of living and food shortages for more than half of the countries, $11000000.00 citizens living under for over 2 line will affected 2 years later the assassination of preston jovan enemies, the 2 low listeners, that's continue to listen. nearly 5000 people have been killed in the balance in one year, and i'm groups now controlled about 80 percent of the captain according to the united nations. and it's calling for funding to tackle the situation and for elections to be held in haiti. the secretary jo reiterates the need for urgent action, particularly in providing financial support for the non,

for the multi multi national security support mission to address the pressing security requirements of the haitian people and prevent the country from plunging further into chaos. the rest in haiti is warming neighboring states. the dominican republic has refused to open for few to cabs. for people seen k, t, the u. s. has also american citizens to leave quickly. but for those left in the country, there's no escape from the reality of what the un describes as catastrophic levels of hunger and silence that are only getting but let me consume shareef. i'll just see the inside story the well before we go to a panel of experts that's here from about subaru of the republic of haiti to the states of cutoff francois deal,

who joins us from the very good to have you with us, ambassador, you'll countries is in the group of anarchy of gang led rule, one of its worst crises, certainly in the modern era. did you ever imagine things could get this bad as well? thank you, mr. hong festival. 42 petitions. well, i got my english and i'll also nice to 1st and foremost is that might be based on the lenses and the families are falling rain with his waiver in security for children. i'm the father of encourages all these offices that go on every day because the lines try to present the same thing by myself, all the hallways. we can't forget that we have someone who's officer is not going to be receiving evaluation. you know, i should be like, does it show on the assignment? you can say that what is happening right now is not all the shot. the reason being

is one of the better part of the last 20 years government and the national sports have been renting the international community on the risk. i'm say we unfortunately have a police force that has not part of the process. the faces clark way of getting walks, you know, i mean, done having a technical capacity in terms of numbers, we are out number and we are one. unfortunately, what's happening today is not all that surprising. it's actually when you have games that are coordinating your efforts, we're seeing all the capacity of the police force that's part of we've been and take advantage of some we watch. these are all cry meetings. fire. however, there is a solution. the national police force solutions to be able to come to a resolution of this and security. and before i send has been and has been for the

past 2 years in terms of what we've been. our credit for the government at least was the establishment of a collaboration between the national police force in a mall by national support where that was. and so you believe that an international security force is the onset or part of the answer. it is definitely part of the answer and it's funny part of the games. there are many, there are many other fives, all these security problem funds that we have young men and women about our funding rates and getting active. it is because out, and that's now been left to know all the alternatives in that route. so in, in, apparently with security matters. 18 how the scene in an area where it has to be invested in each state is we need to invest more demanding and twitching

the stick about investment. my paycheck is one of those countries, one of those plans that have the most of itself, oh is the company you kind of make the buying house. so i'm back to the prime minister ariel henri is out of the country. he went to kenya to try and resolve the block in getting the security forces into haiti. where is the prime minister at this moment? and when is he planning to make his route to this information hasn't been destroyed yet in terms of what you see definitely that came out, i believe, and she went up to the prime minister. she wouldn't mean 18 days ago. the current situation in 18 probably has presented logistical issues for her not being able to be there. however, i do not have her latest information. what was worry about. but that does not this part of the fact that he believes that his role and he's,

he's pretty strong in park branch. i know i'm positive, francois gale on monday. thanks for your time. and for joining us. well, let's bring in a panel of experts now from bordeaux in france, when the cherokee is with the defense intelligence company. james, he was with the un peacekeeping force in haiti in 2014, in new york. round up fell by brown, his director of the initiative on non state actors for the brookings institution. and finally, we have ralph emmanuel, francois haitian social entrepreneur and activist. we're not revealing his location for security reasons. welcome to all of you ralph. let me ask you, 1st of all, what is it like for ordinary haitians now, living in the grip of gang led anarchy? all economic catastrophe jump listeners, hung the sexual exploitation,

the atrocities committed on the streets. this is a very satisfied situation for our country now. and it is hard to imagine and the level of the motions that we have. we now fear and sadness, pessimistic man it's, it's really hard to imagine if uncertainty is, you know, you're not able to put jet fuel life and to say that, okay, in 24 hours, i will be at this location 24 hours. i'll be there, i'll be there. and you know, every to every day that you have a family member coming back from the streets and slides a party. um it's, it's really difficult, you know, project life in such a chaos. people the stuff in security and uncertainty. very upset. yeah. really.

yeah, it is very hard in them. i believe the, the, some communities all held hostage and, you know, and you're seeing what happens in terms of response from the government out they, they can curse you measures and everything. but they have not been able, you know, communicate appropriate b, n. and times the price is the lease that we see at the lease that we should expect from our valuable leaders used to hide. you know, from the window is not in the taking responsibility. at least we have been waiting for a communication like face to face, where i would find meetings or should be, you know, and place in front of the tv and telling people what they are. planes are,

you know, for the next 24 hours for the next 7 to 2 hours. mm hm. how they gonna deal with this situation? okay. well, the nfl but right. a, a picture of political failure, social dysfunction and of course rule by games the, with your special speciality in non state actors. in other words, on groups like gangs and with, with a specific focus i know on haitian gangs tell us how did they become so powerful, essentially defeating the mechanisms of state as well for decades. i hate to have time to rule that study exclusionary but it's a so 3rd on of bringing economy. again, political benefits to a very narrow class of people while the director of the population has been essentially left to fend for himself and for decades. also, businessman and politicians and paid the alternate, the highest level had been using gas for the economy service is to intimidate and

course the arrivals. overtime, however, the gangs have slipped 30 ish and they have become far more powerful, far more organized and apply more ambitious. actually this stems from the access to heavier weapons, but boston, this is the socialization, the learning they have some decades interacting with the point of the people system that has been using them for their purposes. and this as now they do place on a context where he has not had the legitimate government for, for 3 years, but it has been a moisture was assassinated. and since then, oh oh, i missed the audit i read has this in the office of the prime minister. he was never on like state that it was all along significant political opposition to his rules. he promised that by february 2024, he would hold the elections that it was not done for many reasons, including

a visual sector in this situation. and so we don't know the context of a government. that is, we went to a police forces, they decides them collapse, but in gangs of long use their power to interact in colors, the political system. and now i'm more than what i'm vicious. and the conditions for organizations are absolutely college, essentially collusion with politics and politicians produced amongst the monster escaped the cage ones at the terrace, the you, you have experience of african forces, the makeup of expertise. you also have experience on the ground and hate to with the list of the un peacekeeping force in 2014, i want to ask you, is it appropriate to be drawing a security force from african countries to be brought to 80? shouldn't it be people closer to hand with a better knowledge of the situation in the country, perhaps latham countries or the kind of being or the united states even. and so the african countries are being involved in the new style. they've provided some police

contingents. they speak french and there you just some cultural connection with the 8 haitian people. so involvement of african forces would likely have some positive elements. the problem, as you mentioned, is that they do not have experience on the ground, the type of operations that would be, need to conduct info to process with mostly the urban operations for which uh, for example, the kenya police as no major experience. a flashing american countries were significantly involved in the new status of a lot of experiencing h e. they know the lay of the land. they would definitely be a better option probably on the account of their experience. the problem is that not many of them are eager to join to dates among the countries that have committing themselves to the possibility of joining the force. i remember of caribbean countries including jamaica got ya know, behind us believes actually jamaica has

a lot of experiencing the urban operations in the kind of setting that uh uh, that could be both a price parking. uh, guys in uh, kingston and uh with probably, uh, the very well suited to operations and the, the, the problem is uh, the comp to meet large number of personnel. okay. well, ford way, with all of that in mind, i mean, do you think you'll country would welcome an international security force now, particularly given the legacy of mental stuff that ended in 2017, that was sexual exploitation. allegations made against those un peacekeepers. a cholera epidemic that killed 10000 people that came out of the account. um, obviously we need the use of force. we need to use a force. but i believe i strongly believe we thought the political strategy, the use stuff ours will not be effective. and it showed that in the past,

for example, in to talk with dated for the epi center of the complex situation in terms of gang violence, wireless diesel legs, this way is a slum on the almost cord. outsource of photo plants of to year, 100000 people at this time. and we had around $10000.00 soldiers there. and actually we are in 2024. we used later and we don't the only one, every center of the finance. we're now. yeah. more happy centers. so it also the situation is much more complex for many reasons. one of the reasons is in 2004, the games was, were more or less for thomas. now they have mostly total punch full of our maritime, you know, start conference them to come see maritime. so this is much more complex and deal

localized in some parts of what we mean, which, which means that of course, that will be both on the ground. but we need a full legal strategies because we should anticipate civil casualties. so most people go, you know, is a paper also wrapped in you material response. roughly it's, let me bring the car. let me bring vanda in on that. i mean, is there a risk that's ending 5000 troops from africa into a t under the circumstances? is that the best a very, very temporary solution without a wider plan as well? absolutely. is this a temporary solution that i think that everyone understands that the emphasis is managed to provide a secular, at the end of our minds to bo, enabled the political process to move forward. certainly at least one election so that there is some legitimate elected body in haiti, but also to enable the reconstruction of the haitian police force,

which nominal is somewhere around $9000.00 men in practice. it's 3000, not a patient or any day. that's a pet, that's probably a high number of non the less that are many challenges for uh, the emphasis of some of which has to do with the number of personal eligibles already mentioned. it's not inevitable that the actually has 5000 forces. what kind of rules of engagement is they will have, will they take an offensive finds toward the gangs? will they be in a static position? simply perhaps of protecting the domain that always between the board and the porch terminal to a central type of for the past. very many questions, a massive amount of, i'm certainty in what it is, no doubt going to be a very complex mission lasting for a very long time. what a minimum, it will last very long time to some of you, the gang to a level of security. and it doesn't simply, it was the moment the to leave and,

and not have been not even mission. i mean, we're talking about the violence mission, essentially. uh, why don't i want to bring you in on this? i mean, in africa, you'll be perfectly well aware abundantly. so i'm sure the activities of groups like wagner and i wonder whether in the absence of the, the willingness or ability of countries to actually properly police the situation in haiti. whether you can see, or for, see the possibility that the russians get involved here on a different basis on a different level. uh uh, i don't see, the russian says deploying wagner or any kind of direct uh, uh, presence in haiti, it would be quite complex. uh, and it would not necessarily advance their uh, themes significantly. however, using the internet media can thing this information contains that they've done so

up to you nafrica over the past couple years, they could definitely so further dissension, creating a and even more significant to do many tarion crises on the doorstep of the united states. and as distracting the attention of the united states in terms of its security commitments and potentially military commitments away from a europe away from china, away from the, from guys bundle. i want to ask you, you talk about a political framework and, and, and so, and i mean, if we assume that the gangs of so infiltrated into haitian societies, is that there is such a degree of collusion between the gangs and politics. do we have to assume that the political future of haiti, at least the foreseeable one, will have to on some basis include those gangs? possibly the political leadership will come from the gangs. and i want to,

for instance, who was jimmy barbecue service. yeah. you see a man who could be negotiated with is he a man who could rise to political leadership? and so they are a normal contract versus a in haiti about the questions are asking very large number of people have suffered terribly and they hated the idea of any kind of negotiations with the guess of indemnity this. of course, hey, dee has a big cage locked tradition of such negotiations, taking place that has a simply resulted in empowering the games. so want to negotiate in ways that, that, that reduce the damage or arguments the damage. i mean, certainly the nature of the negotiation develop very much depends on how powerful the emphasis is and what kind of security effect managers to generate on the ground . if the, if the national force is very weak, accomplishes perhaps only holding solve the inflow structures and the gangs

continue to arrest or depressed that any kind of negotiations with the weekend. the gang wouldn't bell i asked for a political power of barbecued commissioners. yeah. is a former police officer, he certainly isn't, but he pointed to quit acting east, perhaps the most politically openly, politically active of the game because he, there's other game getting this sort of politicians be faxed from their political alliances jersey as himself, personally politically ambitious. and the latest several days, the wireless we have had shared his yes, saying that he's again trying to bring down the government will find is that already? uh, ralph was checking, he said that an outcome to that. okay. go on ro. i'd like to put a word there. yeah. go and barbecue is the use of cleaning, you know, is a clean, you know, i know is, is very intelligent and he's been pushing for, you know,

communication and to present himself to have like a, a poster as a leader. but he's a criminal. and the biggest, the biggest mistake that we should avoid is to validate the gang members as negotiation factors, the criminals. and that's the reason i'm saying that, of course, we need to use a horse, but we thought, well, we to go strategy. we are precise intelligent political strategy that addresses 1st by the essentials of these 2nd met galion planning to address a 5 over of on 5 moving people for food and security. and last, a clear path to election. credible action ok to speak is actually very important because most of this moment, no, i'm going to those issue members,

not legal issues. you're probably going to bounce back to you in a 2nd. i'm going to bounce back to you in a 2nd for the final sort ralph on this, but i just want to bring vendor. and what about prime minister? real only he's about to make a reappearance. we think in haiti any day now, how will he be received? he will be it presumably great risk and does he have anything politically to think to offer, given that he's essentially discredited in mistrusted so far? uh, prime minister um it is no been billings and stuff down a lot of the political efforts in hate to have some 3rd on the negotiations with him of such as through the opposition groups around what used to be the one time i will call action. all of civil society and that is part of the good part is other political part is he still remains a very important act that even in the simplest of being down of course it was. but just to step down right now, that is a significant challenge of who will emerge as the either be down elections,

which kind of beheld on the kind of the circumstances. so i feel he left for k. yeah. continued saying he would stay in office and the elections would be held in about a year this time. yet it's as relevant saying earlier, i mean, there is a sense of increasing by the day, by the hour as a result of the latest violence that even his own authority has radically glossed. safe. go away, ralph. i want to bring you in for a final thoughts here and, and, and, and, and bring us back down to a community level in how you see in hate to the people of haiti. you spoke about the way they live in such fearful and uncertain conditions. at brutality, also the creeping into society with the rule of the gangs and in, in the way that people relate to one another within communities and within society . how long this will you will country and its communities and its people, serv,

i survive and recover from all of this as they will. and we will be a very up to mistake. and if you look at our history, we've had so many hurdles. and so many times, of course you have that many people that i've lost, the family members do use a complex situations. but as long as they believe that we could get back when we say, hey, these are useful county, i'm almost out of the population is under 18 years old. so whenever you haven't youngsters, you have hold. and uh, i understand also those uh generational conflicts. and i understand that some come easy as far hills hostage, but we must come back and we should come back. but i of the also, i would like to underline without a political strategy, the use of force will be very effective. and i wouldn't ask the

government, i would ask prime in primaries at all. yeah. allow you to leave. make it easy for us to do not take your responsibility. it shows that you'll be here for almost 3 years. yeah. the 1st document, nothing building for 2nd estimates, nothing daily virg leaves step back. come together. okay, well that sounds good in the presence of a resignation and participate in the political process that you've helped to touching on the font. unimportant appeal that many thanks to ralph and thanks to all of i guess initially, ambassador francois gave them, of course, and the cherokee vanda fell back brown and ralph emanuel francois and thank you to for watching. you can see the program any time by visiting our website, delta 0, the call button for further discussion. go to our facebook page,

that's facebook dot com, forward slash a j inside story. or you can also join the conversation on x. r handle is at a j inside story. for me during the whole, the whole team here. it's good bye for now. the on march, the 7th us president, joe 5 and we'll deliver his state of the union address with issues like immigration, economic recovery, add america's response to global conflicts on his agenda. environment re uptown his leadership credentials in this personal election year. special coverage from washington news from alger 0 on the go and meet tonight out is there is only mobile apps. is that the, this is where we just fix allies from out is there is a mobile app available in your favorites apps to just set for it and typed on

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