i think that's about what is the return of the lord jesus christ, the apocalypse. witness those into the us is event jellicoe christie and exploring its influence of democracy in foreign policy on this and try to if you have just read a book in the process. praying for pharma goodness episode to the secretary of state is on his 2nd visit to the middle east and his real stuff is worn down and that was and to the blink. and got to offer this kind of washington pressure israel's government to change direction. this is the inside story, the don't welcome to the program on the clock. the secretary of state is in balance on

another diplomatic tour of the mid least, it stops inside of your regular egypt. and telling me is all part of a push receipts, far agreement between israel and a mass. washington is on the increasing pressure. his warnings grew of a catastrophic finding. dogs on the ground invasion and rough and the towards that happening as us adults. it strongest language towards israel, yet submitting a draft resolution to you and that recognizes a need for an immediate cease 5 tied to the release of captives held by a mouse. so what makes this visit any different from the previous 5 will explode these issues with all panel of guests in a moment. the fast this report by alexandra by. it's becoming a familiar site. us secretary of state antony blinking, touching down in israel on a diplomatic push for a ceasefire in gaza. this attempt is his 6th, but he says he remains optimistic. and tim austin, israel are closer to,

to reaching an agreement. there's still real challenges we've, we've, we've closed the gaps, but there are still gaps. so i can't, i can't put a timeline on it. blinking has met prime minister benjamin netanyahu and members of the, as bailey war cabinet. it's happening as washington march, the queer shifting tone towards its allies. it submitted a un resolution this week, acknowledging the need for an immediate and sustained cease fire in its strongest language. yet, after months of avoiding the term and vetoing similar resolutions, lincoln is bringing information from talks. he's just had with a saudi crown prince and jetta, and aero, before and ministers in cairo. they discuss possible plans for gauze after the war, including on how it could be governed and kept secure. there's a clear consensus around a number of shared priorities. first, the need for an immediate sustained cease fire with a release of hostages. that would create space to search more humanitarian

assistance, to relieve the suffering of many people and to build something more and right to the admin hardware. inside that the bus is also in agreement on the importance of avoiding any military escalation in the area of rough. um, the complete rejection of the displacement of the post indians from outside of that land of you to nothing yahoo has so far, brushed off any opposition to a plan to ground and visions of rafa. and as the diplomats talk is really, bonds are continuing to reduce garza to rubble. a new wave of attacks on friday, killed and injured dozens of palestinians across the strip. and the death toll from israel's war is nearing 32000 palestinian men, women and children. alexander buyers, alda 0 for inside story. ok,

so a very important discussion for our panel today. we have in washington dc, i'm positive, most of what by whose president ameritas of the art gulf states institute in washington and a former state department official in badging today. but usually based in the okay, we have professor roxanne farm and family and who is a specialist in more than the middle east politics and in ramallah north today is a pilot, the new political i list on a former student across one up here. and i'll just or english, welcome to show everybody at okay on bus or i'd like to start with the festival. lot of things happening in town. and right now we have the you and factory state. so i'll be discussing. and our lead is talking about the future of palestinian state. we have since far resolutions before the un security council. and then of course, and the data stations for sees for right here and so ha. meanwhile the shelling the killing goes on. how do you assess where we are now and all we any closer to the

guns over dogs, the being silenced as well as you mentioned in the piece, just the 1st of all, thank you for inviting me and i look forward to our discussion this morning as mentioned the piece that we just saw, this is the 6 a trip for secretary blank come to the reach. and obviously it's been a very difficult challenge for him because you have a secretary of state that's going out to the region. on the one hand, with a clear mission and object of to bring of support to applying post garza and then at the same time also talk to the israelis about avoiding a major military action in or off where you have such density of civilians are all clustered in roughly as they move from to north into the south. so it's very, it's been a difficult challenge because he doesn't have all the necessary tools. the president has not given this the secretary of the let's say the low rich that he

could use to, especially on the is really side i think in terms of his discussions with the are leaders for the post war and gonna there's probably been a lot more progress on the front with the hope that it's in a post garza and also in a post and that's in yahoo, the environment. the plan of the arabs are not discussing with the united states would be with the appeal to the is really body politic enough to at least start the 1st very, very early stuff on the ceasefire. i think um, you know, obviously the, the main talks are happening with the intelligence, the sector. we have circuits and we have a blessed, a director and bill bronson. most sides intelligence chief and also the egyptian intelligence chief meeting with the countries today. and i think that's where you're really going to see hopefully some action on a ceasefire and then okay,

well maybe which just didn't answer. we'll get into that in a 2nd. i just want to jump in there for so i can address it. i want to bring in a know from ramallah and as you observe this new or from where you are, the continued callaghan, gaza, the diplomacy, the negotiations and talk of the day off to how do you assess where we're at? because a long time expansion in what's going on and as a product. and you thank you nick, uh for having me, i think as a, as a palestinian. this is a painful uh um you know, cycle of henri pete of american failed policy in the region. the bite and administration of talking to everybody under the sun accept the palestinians. and when it does talk to the palace, the news that talks at them, it tells them what needs to be done. and it does not take into account what they want done. and what the palestinian public wants done, and it's a bit,

i don't know what the right board would say, but a bits gets a frantic, a bit divorced from reality to be talking about the day after the war. when the onslaught is happening. window ship a hospital is again under siege for the 5th day in a row when hundreds of people are being killed and injured every day. and when the prospect even of the day after for gaza, is about promise. nothing concrete. there's a verbal shift in the american narrative, but there isn't really a policy shift. there's a bit of an opportunistic if you will change in narrative because of domestic american considerations. but there isn't anything real or concrete in that change. and as the ambassador was saying, bite and hasn't given blinking much leverage to use to personally, as rarely as will have been intransigence. what been uncooperative lift continued to star palestinians as

a matter of policy to declare they are not willing to play ball. they don't want to talk about a political horizon. they don't even want to talk about the day after the war because there, there is no interest in ending this war. um, so it's not really clear to me what lincoln will will bring to the table, except a lot of photo ops and the, you know, hope that his sweet talk, this time will play well, boot play out with both for the audience and for the constituents of the democratic party back home, right in rocks and they're in beijing. it everything the rest is everybody said on the talks to the guy on just a few kilometers from where i sit here and de la, those these funny guys to asians. but as we've just heard from nor, and from the in boss, it isn't the reality that is as far as the last thing that benjamin netanyahu, once it could split his coalition that could split his base. and he would then have some serious legal music to face his is just the ain't gonna buy it as they say

a well, he's made clear he's not going to buy edge edge. i find that as a result. what has to look at linkage tour rather as a play for the american public? it's quite a diversion. narrow tactic. i think there's really only one thing that uh, so far he has offered that has any concrete talk to it. and that is, he has gone to the salaries you've spoken to find that at your foreign minister 5, all of their hunch. and i think they are trying to make a swap if you will, of the saudis accepting normalization in return for them really pushing for a palestinian. 8 or a 2 state solution. the difficulty i think is that because the uh is rarely have uh no interest in that stuff as far as i understand from speaking to the people that i

have, they have actually no plans in place so. so one of the ministry actually working on this, there's no office in the, is really government that is actually looking at strategies for 2 state solutions. it is not really anything more real than what lincoln is talking about on these trips. so i think that it is a disappointing venture that he seems to be on, certainly for him. but also for the, the cloud, the united states might be considered to be able to bring it, for example, they were willing to reduce the amount of our sales to as well, after all, 68 percent of the ours that these relatives are using are there. and that to me, seems to be a much stronger way to approach this. and it's one of the things that those in the me least looking at other states that are not part of this conversation. but that play a role of iran and a number of the access to a resistance that it controls the of the question is, isn't there really a,

a 2 step game going on here and the americans are really not playing fair. right? unprecedented said, is it, you will view that the see saw deal these negotiations that going on here and de la will fail that they will not agree a hostage of captive deal. and the seas 5 will not go ahead. well, well it's so hard to tell what will happen in these. i mean you've got really a collection of a very senior folk sitting at the table in the hot today. so we may see a break through, but it's not a short thing. and the only reason i agree with my colleague, the only reason i don't know may accept a temporary and he will call a that's regardless of, of what everyone else calls or that it would be. a pause is always so you can get some of those very hostages up that would help him domestically. there is

a lot of pressure on it now on israel for the us just. but it's not in his interest to have a long a ceasefire, and the sides would have to be a very, a very short one. but the main problem here is that you have the government really in a very tight and balancing act. you know, you're on one hand, you're trying to push as well as to allow more humanitarian a and a cease fire that's released to some of the hostages and also gives you some breathing space and may be able to negotiate more. and the same time you're trying to keep the domestic political environment in the us during an election year from a really hurting the presidents a chance of winning this. so it's very important to election for americans. so it's a balancing act that by them is tracing and as i said earlier, he has a lot of power blinking really to use all american leverage for the domestic

political reasons and rooks on that if hostage towards fail. if these captive thoughts fell in the seas far, it doesn't happen then by the, the, by the ministration is a real di limit. isn't it? whether to continue to insist on linking the release of the concept with a ceasefire in the face of it, a clear and present warning from you and panel of experts. it says that we're on the brink of a devastating farm. and that's going to kill tons of thousands. yes, it is a dilemma. and i think a new hole in the west actually makes it even more difficult because it looks like in the poll, that's a great number of people in the united states, particularly the older ones are supportive of what 5 is doing. they see that as the approach that is the is rarely as have taken towards the palestinians is correct. so the, the numbers are definitely showing in the united states to fight and has to watch

what he's doing. but meanwhile, there's this real booming of famine. manmade famine, and this is something that has, is already a road, a us reputation in the, in the region, and then the world that it's allowing this to happen. and it's something that clearly this particular trip by blinking has been put forward to try well versed and i don't think that it's going to easily meet you to sufficient a reaching the raw ha and the rest of the policy in the and as opposed to as in gaza in time and then is the reply. defensive is really friends of on rough it which will come to in a 2nd. but know before that, just wondering what would you say that the majority of palestinians want here clearly a ceasefire? no doubt about that, but what's, what's the ball going that they're prepared to accept all the hostages. all the cap just held him down to let's think i don't think that there is

a palestinian who would oppose an agreement whereby all the captives are released in one goal. but there is an understanding amongst all tell us to the end of that the cost for that would be extremely high in terms of what the, what, how much on the other groups are going to ask. there is, i think, a growing understanding among palestinians, but the expectation or the hope that old palestinian palestinians and prisons by israel would be released is not going to happen. especially if we take into account the pin number a fellow citizens and his really prisons has more than doubled since october. the 7th. and a lot of the people who are released in the 1st east fire have been detained once more. and there's a lot of room for flexibility here, but i think the priority right now besides like you said, the cease fire is making sure aid enters the side of palestinian

children. dying of starvation is unbearable and it will bring things to another breaking point. not just here, but i think in the region as a whole. and then there's the issue of the return of palestinians displaced up to the south of gaza. this is a very critical point and this is a point that has been raised time. and again, in the negotiations in the how and in cairo palestinians have to be able to return to northern gaza. israel is treating this as a leverage point. it doesn't want to talk about it now. it doesn't want to deal with it now. and that is very problematic because the idea, it's all days of overpower city is that once the dispossessed, oh, is dispossess. nobody wants to go through that and have us certainly can't afford to pay the political price for not. you know, securing the return of hundreds of thousands of palestinians displaced from ga, the city, and northern garza and many of them because one of the,

all of many of them are in rafa in the south of gaza. so roxanne, at these randy prime minister seems determined to go into rafa, whatever, despite pretty while every nation in the world, including the united states, tell him not to do that because the casualties could be horrifying. but if not, you know, who ignores that in piles in with the potentially dreadful consequences. what could the implications of that be? not so much on the ground, but politically and diplomatically for israel, and particularly for the united states. well, i think we're all in a position where we can't believe that it's gone on this long that we've, there been this many people killed so many of them women in shopping so many of them shopping over 40 percent and yet nothing has happened. outrages being expressed, of course, it has gone to the uh, the international court of justice. there have been a number of efforts by human rights organizations. but in fact, there,

there is, of course, in my view, a gradual and increasingly rapid deterioration and reputation. and in stature that the uh, with the united states has encountering, brought broadly. and that i think it has significant effects in terms of diplomacy and our international institutions that they cannot stop this. but encore, currently, i think it just forces us all to be witnesses to ethics and exceedingly. and, and a terrible situation is getting consistently rapidly worse about what was your view on that question. and also i wanted to ask you, should the united states decline to supply weapons that would be used in an invasion of rafa? well, i personally would certainly hope so. and i think if we see of israel is um,

going ahead with a major military operation and drop it to be really a breaking point with the us. i think this is when reality is going to push the administration either to a quiet place. right. and maybe they have started already making it very clear that it's, if let me all proceeds with his plan for a major military operation and all that that would be very serious consequences. and i would just fly into the shore, comments assignments or show or summons. and as a present, and by that was very obvious, support for senator schumer as comments. those are all messages to those rallies that were very serious about not moving into our office and were willing to go around that in your home and appeal to the israeli public. now is not enough leverage those rallies have gotten away with a lot of the last 50 years. it's not just the vitamin ministration. unfortunately,

the american government has a terrible track record when it comes to is rarely policy new issues. we have back slide it on. so many issues that are, we're seeing the fruits of them today, and we're getting a huge hit on american credit ability, american standing in the world and the by them, the session happens to be in place towards the solve this for america. i was like me and others, it's very difficult because by that ministration has come in after a public and administration that many of us felt was really on a very bad track record for american standing both domestically and globally. and so now it's a, it's a, it's a big issue for americans domestically. how do you support this present in this administration, and at the same time support what's going on in terms of their policy on israel and palestine? or another big issue is what happens next, nor ends, according to the

a secretary of state that has been some consensus found between him and our foreign ministers. on the future. do you think sci fi would, would open the way to, to state talk? so what's your sense of it is a right to sound as publish? as he did about that? i looked, i think the um, the bite and administrations one eyed perspective on israel and palestine is very consistent. even talking about palestinian statehood is meant to achieve a big win for israel. it is not out of a sudden change of heart that actually sees palestinians as human beings. otherwise the u. s. policy wouldn't have allowed and enable that empowered israel to go on committing this genocide for the past 6 months to shield it from accountability of the international stage and to oppose. ah, you know, what is happening at the international court of justice. a court that is now trying israel for genocide and also considering the whole legal status of this occupation

. so i, i don't really see any change for the bite and administration. they want to see and he's really solve the deal. now that i was thinking and happen to be and, and all young details. so they want to kind of push it under the rug, tell the palestinians will work something out. there will be a prospect of something, a prospect of a palestinian state. that's much of the same and i would say after everything that has happened and given the fact that it's still happening, that is nowhere near enough to convince the palestinian child that the american policy is actually serious about their liberation, about 3 months, the patient from this occupation about telling is around that it has to make a choice between being a colonizer forever of the palestinians, or to be a country that is accepted as a normal law abiding country in the region and beyond. then it's a moment of truth, not just for the americans, but i think for the whole system,

this international system that has allowed this to happen. it has allowed it to persist and it always treated the palestinians as the detailed up can be sorted out later. it's easy to figure in the mouth. we'll talk about money, we'll talk about support. we'll talk maybe the possibly even about some reform. nothing really serious because at the end of the day, all of the chips are in the hands of these, where least they are given veto power over ending the occupation over palestinian sovereignty and independence over the palestinian rights in general. that hasn't changed. and so i think all of this is really a waste of time. thanks for that. no, we're just going towards the end of the program and i just want to for a couple more questions before we wrap up in, in a couple of minutes. uh, an impass of the festival. how do you read into into b, blinking bullets remarks about the future because he knows it as well, but by into 2 states and a new will say, no, well, for me, go on past the door and experience about, you know, what said behind the scenes may not be said to the wider public and i think

this whole focus now by the administration on, you know, the, the only long term solution is the 2 state solution. there is, i think, i think this whole october 7th attack my house and this debilitating war that we're watching now. and guns are, has brought and your realization to many in the united states. and this just can go on. but at the same time, i think anyone who has, who knows the region and knows the power assign and she knows that this narrative is you're talking about a 1015 year uh into the future. you're talking about a, just a solution that has been destroyed and it's all the ground by all of the things that is really something done in terms of supplements, etc, etc. so when we talk about a, just a solution right now, i really look at it as more of a p r exercise as a, as a way to hopefully give some hope to palestinians. the americans care enough to even

talk about this, which is new. um, but at the same time it's, it's not realistic. it's not frank magic to go down that path. when you have such a right wing government and is room and not just the government, you have a right way population in israel now in terms of their support of $4.00. the news. okay. it's, you know, about what you're just, uh, sorry to interrupt, but i just wanted for a question quickly. at roxanne, we just time to ask a question about normalization before the war. it was on the agenda, but then it disappeared, of course with everything that's happened. but now it's back on 3. saudi, it seems. what do you expect the i think that's quite tricky too. i agree with the about what his comments. i think that a lot of this is just a pod air in that it's the only thing the rest and see at the moment to offer. but i think the saudis have become closer to the iranian so successful. the more to,

to the surprise of many, and i think that would put them into a very tricky position, which i'm not sure they're willing to do at this point. the united states is not seen as, as credible as it was before. and i think the neighborhood is now becoming much more of a focus for all of the gulf states. and so i think that's a very tenuous area for, for blinking to be lucky. so, so cheerful about and i think one of the things that's all summer disconcerting is that and uh, speaking about a 2 state solution. i agree with north, there is no real discussion with the palestinians themselves. that if we think about what has happened to them, the level of trauma that they are suffering from. uh, not to mention the fact that they're in the cities are in, have been leveled. and i can't picture what it, what their position would be and they are obviously necessary, critical to any kind of reconstruction thereafter. all right, then,

so it goes on so much more to discuss, but we'll have to leave it that we've run out of time. thank you so much. that's what i guess most of what but roxanne, to find that and find me. and nora, jay, thank you and thanks for watching, you can watch the full program again. any time by visiting our website out, is there a dot com and for further discussion, just go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash, hey j inside story. and you can also join the conversation on x or hi, blaze at a inside story. for me, the clock and the whole team here is good bye for now the a human appeal. we know just how precious every moment of rema time is. every 2nd of these beautiful months brings you the opportunity to embrace the spirit and blessings of mercy. your 13 knights is a human appeal platform,

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