today, for as long as of life and does funds legion, journalism, i'm just asking awesome. every interview, just like the war sharing personal stories with a deliver or do you want to create a world where women come and feel naturally released that trauma and creates explorer and abundance of world class programming on which is the era rafa in southern goals. so the last refuge but $1500000.00 palestinians sheltering in fear of it is really ground invasion for us and european allies of all opposed to willis ro push ahead regardless what will be the consequences. this is inside store the

hello again on james bay's riley. is that unity among israel's opponents and allies, but that's the case regarding opposition to prime minister benjamin netanyahu has plans to invite the city of ruffled in casa, often more than 6 months, a brutal 1500000 people are living in dog conditions at the southern end of the strip, most of being force that by is really a tax which continue on what's meant to be a place of refuge despite world wide opposition from israel's allies, its opponents on the united nations. nothing. yahoo says the bible times for a major ground defensive and rough, i have been drawing up with a date already set. so will he go ahead? what will be the political implications of israel going against the advice of the us? it's main baccha and supplier of weapons and for palestinians. could this be the worst scenario? yes. looming catastrophe. after a catalogue of hara, we'll discuss a little this with a panel of guests in a moment. but 1st, this report from sentiment to most of causes population is crammed. is the southern

city over off they live under constant is really bombardment. the latest ways of attacks of killed dozens of people. but as these really army prepares for a major ground defensive, many fear things are about to get a lot worse. hold onto the model we are definitely terrified to a for say he isn't afraid is like, so is nowhere for us to go type in the i need to, we are scared. if an invasion takes place and dropped off, where can we go? we are more than 20 people. i really dream about going back to my home. i wish i can go back to my apartment even if it is rubble. now. he's really prime minister benjamin netanyahu says, an attack on or off is essential to achieve his war, aim of destroying, come off. he says nothing will prevent it from going ahead. and we will complete the illumination of the mass battalions, including in rough up there is no force in the well, that will stop us. but the 1500000 displace palestinians are taking refuge there.

they have nowhere else to go and you and his warning to the ground a sold would result in major civilian casualties. a grounds the intervention in gaza. the in the rough uh with the, the categories sticks that's we all know would be a humanitarian catastrophe. and so i believe this is time to make sure that's what we have been saying. since the beginning you many thaddeus ceasefire takes place even the us israel. staunchest ally has urgent not to go ahead with the offensive. in the 1st instance, it's imperative that people are able to get out of the way of a venue conflict. and doing that, getting people out of harm's way, is a monumental task for which we get to see a plan and not only getting them out of harm's way, making sure that they can be supported with matters transit systems. these really government finalized his plans in march,

but still hasn't ordered the attack. in the meantime, the bombing continues and all the people of rasa can do is wait and hope to survive . fence and bought an owl to 0 for inside story. the, well now let's discuss this with, i guess today, clued to a fil, isn't that a ball out in central garza, she's an economic justice officer at hong spam who specializes in supporting women that businesses and youth entrepreneurship. in durham in the u. k. robot guys to pin fold. electra and peace and security at durham universities research focuses on his riley form and security policy on his should my honda is actually in the city of rafa. he's the spokesman in gaza for the international committee of the red cross. glad to have you all with us. so let me start with you issue. i'm you of the in rafa and your organization is the guardians of the rules of all the the, the geneva convention. so tell me, what does international humanitarian law say about the possibility of

a large scale military offensive in a place that so packed with people. hello, james, and thank you for having me. there was a, for a big, clear civilian lives and infrastructure must be protective. no matter what happens from what we have been witnessing and rough off with the large waves of displacement that have been ongoing for months. and many families have been on the move and been displaced for an average of 5 times for families. now, they faced the evidence of the reality of i'm going to have a patient or a rough idea to see or see the international medium, the risk process, once it's in the community and part of the confidence that any possible scenario, a mess of military or ration and blah, blah, given the situation of the densely populated areas here to be nothing but carnage.

and just to be clear, as far as what is the noise that we're hearing above you, i'm assuming that's a drone. that is, commission says the people in the different areas across the guns this term here, most of the day clued. tell us more about the, the life of ordinary people in rafa and elsewhere in gaza. you represent aux them. but i know you are a mother of a young child yourself. how difficult is things right now uh, thank you for hosting me today um for this program and thank you for all giving attention to go, because i should always be on cause of the situation is really easy for us to think . the human story and situation is so very difficult. no not entered garza despise the international and cold from the organizations and human trailer getting station. just kill

a bit just regardless. tell the situation is very to best teaching. everyone here is a free all of any expected minutes repression and dropbox because this for sure with the, the, his mentor and situation in a more difficult situation. dropbox is very crowded up to the dns. real point is right in crowd. they don't tend so mix shifts counts where people are trying to find safe, schultz or there. so any military offensive on the part where it really makes things more difficult. we don't expect to, to have, and we'll, uh, actually buy tuition of the video from uh, from blah blah, blah. we really expect that to the human stories. situation will get more difficult because we expect the closure of border and we only have one line of it which is causing border. and despite this, the ave that intern go as well is not, you know,

it's not at all to respond to the needs of those internally displaced people in there. since you didn't go strip a for sure as a mom of the, my person that lives in it's really hard when you're going to be your default. any aspect of minutes where you operations in any area. and that's one of the, the why, but also a mental area or in the area and the gillhouse rep it's oh is put us in a situation where we cannot really find any to see anywhere. roberts, is it a case of if there is a rough uh, offensive or when there was a rough or offensive? because prime minister netanyahu still talking about total victory. he says the dates already being set, although he hasn't told us what it is, of course. well, this is the question on everyone's minds and that's and you all himself has been talking about draft for offensive for a very, very long time now. and nothing is materialized. have you asked me this a week and a half or 2 weeks ago? i would have said to you that this is

a basically upload that netanyahu was trying to use this as tool as leverage in the tools as in concepts to try and basically reach an agreement with a mouse that will see the return of hostages and some kind of a temporary or last in the seas for now and the exchange between israel and the run . and it to play subsequently is a game changer and leaves. the said i would question why? well, because nothing yahoos retaliation israel's retaliation against iranian attack and was relative the light to basically one of the craft and defense system was destroyed from what we can tell same fall. and that was basically and it didn't reach a threshold to isolate israel from his international partners he'd be arguing against the escalation. the problem that's in yahoo, that has is an internal one having a piece he's in josh, no partners. he is annoyed the far right. members of his coalition on whom he is relied for his device, you have national security minister, it's them all bank vill tweeting on x very fast enough. the type one would lose the

translates to we called a static in hebrew. so nothing yahoo is now under pressure to demonstrate is focused credentials into a peas, his coalition allies. so i think the danger of the rasa offensive is now more substantial. then we have had spent very long time in the previous weeks. hey, show me your organization, the i, c r c. we mentioned how it governs the laws of war, but it's also a humanitarian organization. what would it mean if an offensive was carried out in rafa given this is i believe a normally about $270000.00 people. and now they're all about one point. $5000000.00 and the price is completely swelled. tell us a bit about the humanitarian situation. on the ground is if i can add a 2nd part to my question, rafa is very limited aid coming into gaza, but he's one of the entry point say that makes it even worse, isn't that the?

yes, absolutely. now considering that there is approximately $1300000.00 people living on 20 percent only of the total spaces, the gaza strip, totally disconnected from the, the basic services. and for example, $900.00 people have only access to one that's been an average person, a drop a has access to only 3 liters of water per day. 2 of them are not suitable for human consumption. this is a basic examples of how people suffer under in human conditions as a result of the ongoing complex. now, there are some of the challenges that are facing human italian work is included and actually can reduce the risk process, which is the lack of our absence of security guarantees that are crucial, unnecessary poor achieving a meaningful human kind of response from the ground. despite all that, we are trying to maximize that. we're going to tell you that response. however, this will not change the reality on the ground as long as there are still it is in the ground and the and the are not these. uh, anytime soon, visitation works is by the clock, by the 4th, by, by, by the hour. and, uh,

there is already unlimited space for him and a time workers to work. now, if things escalate for the drop off crossing this space will spring or making any possible human incentive response. definitely meaningless on the ground . we are trying to as hard as possible, but this is not an environment. a document attorney is kind of word, keep that up. i, i'm going to move on actually, and also include a follow up question now. um, if that was a rough or offensive, where would the people go? is actually nowhere on the says the big, the question that we hear every day from any male living, it goes on like of during this, any offensive operations manager, reparation the any area i'm together strep. where to go? i'm actually people have no place to go. i each one of those golfing people,

actually it's a case has to be displaced for a new one or 2 times and through the sports. and so this moment we don't have like 5th shoulders to hold those. i to be in the governance structure during the 80 and expect to defensive mandatory operation involves people will by nowhere to go. and this is just like colored, well, is there a possibility? is there a possibility, collude with childhood? some say that people might be forced out of the gaza strip is that's a possibility. we have been hearing about this since the beginning of the war, but what i think is the people in gauze i will not actually find this solution is really good for them. to leave the people here, how to lift their houses in the gather in garza until this moment. they wait every day in order to listen about any news or to earn about any updates and then

a solutions that are being done in concert. i need to turn on every words in order to hear about the possibility to return to their houses, leaving golf course. it is not easy for those people actually. and if we talk about being on the edge of the causal strip and this is the southern point of the, the gaza strip, roberts, it's on the edge of egyptian territory. what i know because egypt remains a country with a peace treaty with this route, what do you think egypt is making of the prospect to this offensive? well, egypt is very much, he gains this offensive taking place. and this is exactly why as a bite and ministration is not accepting so much pressure because they getting pressure from the partners in the, our world, countries like egypt and saudi arabia. and those is effect to pressure is route to reach us these by as soon as possible, the egypt, as you say, there is a border,

an issue here as well as egypt explicitly has rolled out the reset thing of palestinians. refugees within the sun, i've been anxious to add. instead there's been all sorts of talk about israel, for example, trying to reset with them elsewhere. but this is a key point to friction between the, by the end of this ration and these rarely, goldman, israel maintains, from what we've heard from leaks the recycling or the 1.5 and give or take siblings within wrap up. we'll take them around 4 weeks. the us disagrees vehemently and things this will take around 4 months and actually doing something like what is real? proposes this mass, a very rapid receptive and to avoid humanitarian crisis, but actually only make a few minutes airing process more lightly. and significantly worse because you will be moving people with that infrastructure without planning at you will be moving them at a very, very, very own planned way. and as some of my colleagues here were mentioned, these are people who've been rooted on multiple occasions. so all of that was race,

the fireman and disease would actually be exacerbated by a rock bed on the front of the occupation. so pickup on that point, if you kind of hisham and legally on the international humanitarian law, is there a way israel could do this? or does it amount to force displacement, which is in itself international illegal on the international. i totally understand stability parts to the account to ensure the protection of the videos and they have absolutely access to everything necessary for survival, including health care in terms of displacement. beeping must be sure that they can be moved safe people in one area to another that families, one company cannot or does not get separated from their loved ones. and it has to

be timely bound, that'd be, cannot be misplaced. so it's no more important than ever that international community must be filled with more responsibilities to exert more pressure to put this lecture to an end. and uh, there's no way that people in jobs i can continue living like this. it has been almost 200 days now and they have been through a lot clued. we've got lots of comments from members of the international community who are telling israel notes to carry out the rafa operation. the un secretary general set an operation in rafa would compound the humanitarian catastrophe. the us secretary of state tony blinking said that would be terrible consequences for civilians. how seriously do people that in gaza take these comments from these international figures when the war now is coming out to a 7th month and yeah, so you've got the us warning of this. but at the same time, the us giving $26000000000.00 in the last few days to israel. the

people peopling does actually. so the listening to the other to, to the ext are the rules declarations say and comment his phone, social media. i don't see any except administrative phrase. it is because well, do the really so far, is that a t v p and the to the painting, human story and situation and for the talk sure is thomas, how says both things. it's donna, are thomas no access to clean water or to try know, access to the most afford to be used new access to enough sewage. the hub system is really cool. so people are living in tents. no. we aren't in sama so people are, are, are be for the actually, it's time those to. so people are only thinking of how the key about what they are suffering from the try to,

to hear something used between of times and the other another. but the actually fuse they actually see. or i mean that's booked administrative gratian. because as you have mentioned, they don't have a place to go. they have no work. there is no safe shelters in garza, can you find them or even any place no place in golf? that you see because people have really experiences with be displaced from one place to another place. the robots, we, we've heard tough woods from the bite and administration before towards the ness and yahoo government and nothing. yahoo really hasn't listened on many occasions, but it is west noting there was another development in the last few hours. it looks like the us that could just state and t blinking is going to sanction under what's known as the lease. he knows one particular unit of the is riley miller tray. do you think that will get israel is attention is not related to the to the

possibility of offensive and wrap up, but do you think it could become linked? so yeah, just to give some context, the view is what we're talking about here is the next time you heard of autonomy. and now this was a pioneering autonomy and set so far the idea of leadership because it's specifically 6 to integrate and strictly both adults ultra orthodox is released into the army, many of whom wouldn't normally serve in the military. so it's a strictly religious unit. now the problem here is that this unit has been subject to a significant i'm building obligations of human rights abuses long before the current military campaign, including the death of a 1778 year old, outstanding american in 2022 who was basically an adult. and by the group i'm left to die at so these right government will say, look, there's no truth these obligations. but we do know that that battalion was moved out of the west bank. add on to the quite to get around heights border at whether

there's a connection that is very much an open question, but it is now 5 to the in the goals and strengthens paul's, the military operations at the moment. will this effect as well as military behavior is campaign. now we're talking about 1000 people here. this is not a significant assign should, but israel leaders are indeed incense by this. they all just been end of a wedge and who knows what is opens up and it is indeed a new pressure. and so on the one hand you have the volume is basically trying to use carrot and sticky. on the one hand, you have that $26000000000.00 a package at that was used to support these for on the show us support for as well . on the other hand, you have new precedence like this sanctioning amendments of the all idea. so is this or not can itself, that will be a game changing? nobody's at the start of increased us public pressure against israel. i don't, yes. history, i'm let me take you back to where you are. where are we talking about that over crowded city of rafa. now one of the things we've seen in over 6 months is the

collapse of the medical system across the gaza strip. and we saw that hospitals were, are deliberately targeted by israel. i'll shift in garza city, not so hospital and con eunice the most well known, but so many hospitals targeted. how worried all you about the hospitals where you are in rafa. if they work just to, to, to face this, the same thing because they seem to be among the many functioning medical facilities. and the whole goal is to strict, now you pronounced the committee. if the red cross have warrant says be star in the early stage of this conflict about impacting the health care system in gaza, which has been heavily impacted by 16 years long restrictions on the move with the people and the after hospitals have come to rubbish. following the military operations, conducting insight investigations around them, it leaves only not that the entire health care system and gases now is the last.

and there's only one thing that is capable of providing advanced health care service. and that is be gone. so you repeat, and you've got the eunice where a surgical team i see are see doctors, nurses, surgeons work since last november, and deliver your plan on average of once the urgency needed surgeries and databases, the oxy or c, it's that it's most top priority to keep providing support what this left from a healthcare specific goals district. but there is no health entity can, can absorb the influx of patients either in rough or 10 units. and if the scenario of the military operations conducted hospitals have been reading on. but those have been working non stop for 6 months in town and health care system, gals, or whatever is left of it is on the seas. doctors themselves and medical staff have either been killed, detained, or lost, a dear friend or, or something that is

a valuable to in their lives. yet they continue to work. however, they cannot continue working like this for ever. i mean, collude like me show all of you as somebody with i think demonstrates this. these are pictures of a young baby in the rafa. the baby was saved from the womb of her mother who was dying from head injuries and an emergency since air inspection was performed in a rough uh uh, the woman died that says did her husband as did that 3 year old other daughter um it just shows the a pulling situation facing women and children and gaza. does it no said, shocking statistic. i saw some unicef every 10 minutes. one child is killed or injured in casa a we have a, we have actually many of the old folks to try. she just told us and we get on the trip. i'm always and like, and like any call fixed around the rules, live in the children, always be the highest of price. and doing this for

a very big number of women and children were killed actually with no, uh, actually with no lemme to a change for a recipe thing for children all the time. they are expressed to the on the danger they are the are the are the child's whenever they hear any pumping or showing around them for my son, for example, all the time i'm trying to keep him calm, trying to convince him that there is nothing risk around us, but the reality is that our children didn't actually grow up in an environment like this. children needs to grow up in the pro attractive environment, safety environment. and the story of the uh, baby, actually in and drop off is one of many of his, till we have had him together strep to chewing this escalation. and it's, it's,

it's well, 3, any charge a, d, c, and that's how long it's poured out. of there, and it's really difficult to see and to think of how, how will the future of this k p will be without his mother or his father. so claims and with this really trying to. so we staying with you conclude not as a official from aux from, but as a mother, what would be your message to leaders around the world who have power here? what would be your message to the, to the is really leaders at this moment as they contemplate a full on offensive into rafa. mine that my message is rainy uh, of having any military operation in the hall with will actually put civilians integrated debilitating situation. the civilians should be proactive. that's

why i coal i own my own personal lives as mom i called for immediate permanency file because we manage the ink as we use windows people, we use our blocked ones. we lose or comedy the 1st we lose, or bro clinics and everyone we know income so. so an immediate permanency is for you for sure with this because this actually should and this fee or this little child p as in call. huh. no. okay, thank you very much to all 3 guess today. hello. do a fill, rob, guys, 10 fold hitch in the honda. you'll find comprehensive coverage of the war on cause or from our teams base that are included in rafa itself. and there's more context analysis on mobile app and on our website, which is 0 dot com. if you have comments on today's discussion, go to our facebook page. let's facebook dot com forward slash 8 inside story or find this on x. we are at asia inside story for me, james,

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