for a costly pay of fixing their bodies on the lines the fullest attention of the issues that much to, to that climate change is a symptom of a system that's breaking down. when every other week fails, die with action was to be left open for democratic societies. or wants to allow for there to be no politician in this country as i was shut down and honest people have generation changed on out to 00 sector states in israel, and another push for states 5 in gaza. he says a deal is achievable to full z, a 7 month full for these ready prime minister has a game bound to invade rafa. so how will benjamin nothing, you know whose comments affects mediation efforts? this is inside story, the

kind of they're welcome to the program on the clock. so the time is now and to the blinking, striking, an urgent tone is attempts to get a ceasefire and gaza. america's top diplomat says, a strong proposal is on the table as he makes his 7th visit to the middle east and see if i can be got an october boxes in direct negotiations for seas far between israel and i last carry on in egypt with questions of being raised about the chances of an agreement being reached, also because randy prime minister reiterated his plan to invade rafa. ken benjamin netanyahu stretched disrupt tools to end the war. this killed more than 34500 published engines, will explore this and other issues without guessing just a moment. the 1st this reports by katia lopez a renewed push to reach a ceasefire. deal in gauze. you a secretary of state anthony, blinking met with his really prime minister benjamin netanyahu calling for an agreement between israel and hum us. it's a message he emphasized earlier while

a meeting with his really president isaac here. as long as we're trying to get as far the brings the hostages all together now. and the only reason that that wouldn't be changed just because of the most. critics say it's not that simple. israel has become launching airstrikes on rafa. and that's and yahoo was threatening to launch a full scale operation in the southern city with or without a ceasefire deal. i don't want, you can just leave a 5th wheel and to rest up because we have no other choice will destroy the how much battalions that we will complete all the objectives of the books, including the repatriation of old deputies going allies like the us, germany and france have war, nothing yahoo against the move, but he's under greater pressure from within his own government. support from farm right? ministers gave nothing yahoo! another term and they've warrenton, they can also,

and it was the last time i believe the prime minister has promised that israel is going into rough and he promised that we're not ending. this for an neglectful deal will not be made. i congratulate those words and i think the prime minister understands implications. if this does not take place more than 34000 palestinians have been killed since october 7th. almost leaders have accused nothing. yeah. who of intentionally extending the hor to stay in power for these real families of captives or staging, protest demanding a deal to get their loved ones who fly whatever pressure is necessary almost. but not the only dilemma. also today is really a problem and is the reply. whatever pressure is necessary. and in roswell, about 1500000 palestinians wait with nowhere else to go. the u. n. chief on sonya with terraces, an assault on this city would lead to an unbearable escalation. but devastating

consequences in gaza and the wider region. katia, look this with the yen, which is 0 for insights store so plenty to take on. let's bring in all gas. joining us from london is done, you'll levy, he's president of the us middle east project. and a form is ready negotiate to nora day. it's a political unless she joins us by skype from amman. i'm joining us by skype from washington. dc is william lawrence. he's a professor at american university in a form of us diplomats, a warm welcome to each of you. so as that goes to asians continue, i'm wondering what the motivation is for benjamin netanyahu. daniel levy to say that he will invade rafa sees fall or no seas 5. does he mean it? how can that be a c spa and a whole set of attack on rough or done related to you?

the simple so nick, is those 2 things cannot go together to the extent to which there was some sense. maybe this preload impasse in the media coats court be found to weigh out all precisely because for the 1st time there was a sense the may be the us was leading to the idea of a pub in a drama and a temporary cease fire. and that would allow how much to move for the negotiations for from that side to the extent to which it was possible. prime minister not send you off who just took a school to that. he just shot that off at the knees. because by insisting that a rough or operation would go to get would continue. nobody was nothing yahoo was conscious of what he was doing. and he was yet again, trying to undermine the talks. but what's important to acknowledge it is he was doing so because he felt confident hutto ready heard the american side say, it's

a generous salsa how moss over to you. if this doesn't happen, there's only one party to play. so not a yahoo was essentially middle the book yet again by an american president, the american secretary of state and american administration to allow this more to continue who provided the weapons for nothing. y'all, was it no holly to him, a little more for rental who is politically beneficial? and i do think once you take these ready prime minister seriously, i do see the preparations that they may drop off. i do not think there was an idea consensus, but if not said, yahoo has his way and he has not stopped. then the over one medium palestinians in rough are all going to face. what is going to be one couldn't imagine yet a now the when does violation of international know devastation killing? i know you know that that is going to happen. if something else doesn't intervene

and it's blinking. just blew the jobs. right. can somebody else intervene? william lauren said, what do you think i know who les off the hook, and if so, what are the implications for any sci fi deal as well? i agree, gross of murder with what daniel saying, i, i don't think he's entirely off the hook. i still think that the us pressures quite intense. i think this uh, there's many flaws and then negotiations here, both the public and the private part. one is this idea of a permanent ceasefire. that's called a peace treaty or an armistice about disney tonight and really off the table. and now that cyber seeing phrases like sustainable. com and you're no longer so stationed that facilities for a year at formulas within which could be pressured. and you can parse that and you know, statements that fits squarely february, you know, when this was 1st proposed in the rough uh, operation was 1st delayed. he leaves wiggle room. he'll say things like, well, i won't be forced into something. i don't agree to. but then he applies if he

agreed to something, then you know, he could be given another way out, which as the americans made me do it, there's also a problem here that's israel is operating i did. how much is in a very weak position, which they don't believe they're in a mess of the leads the us and the started this really side is in a very weak position because of the protest. united states and other things and operating, negotiating on that basis isn't really going to get us to an outcome. i think the latest principles are promising and not impossible. the, this, this sort of the dance that's going on where from us goes to cairo needs. mr. is go to kyra needs, this is not good. i was hoping we can all be in one place and maybe bill burns would show up. i heard that technical negotiations will shift to do hot tomorrow, but this isn't over yet. one way that we know one, the commentator here and us grace it is that danielle who has a choice between alaska and re on and all of the meetings and re add and all of that effort to sort of offer that then. yeah,

a big normalization. not only would saturday rate there, but much of the rest of the muslim majority countries which would follow. it's not off the table yet. that package is still being discussed around with the day after proposals that are going more. sure. no. do you think come us would agree to this uh, circled prolonged period of clock given what benjamin netanyahu is saying about invading rafa, whatever happens. and i think some of the signs it sounds in a difficult position because the mediation, whether it's egypt or other, have flipped all their weight behind these latest efforts to reach a ceasefire situation on the ground. as untenable, you have the whole population on the brink of time and you have any possible situation where more than a, you know, a 1000000 people nearly a 1000000 and a half people are, you know, supposed are expected to be crown in an area with absolutely no services or

infrastructure to offer, which is cool, i'm off, it doesn't fit them, they cannot accommodate that. and everybody knows what are about the invasion would mean. but on the other hand of i think it's important to also know that how much also has to speak to all constituents. it cannot be seen as a rendering. it cannot be seen as something, anything that that is on the table is specially in light of what occurred in the whole world turn from nothing. yeah. promises of continuous, more of all and this more and see to the destination of the energy. we're almost, you know, in a, in a, in an exchange that be lost somewhere in medieval times where you have one power that goes against, you know, a war and they won't complete an absolute surrender. i think the adults at the table should understand by now that that's not going to happen. but i find that one of the things that perhaps is keeping negotiations back is the fact that the

americans haven't completely let go. the idea that they can deliver to nothing. yeah. one to is really a big tree through these talk through normalization of what so you're right. yeah. why don't the same time promising a political horizon for palestinian. so in a way, counseling out a major player might play me, this would ultimately be positive for the palestinians. i think that is one of the reasons why you have a stop and go dynamic at this point even though you have this be care normalization with. so the hanging in the distance. yeah, stopping goes the phrase isn't it? don't know that it says there's no such a difficult position for a mass. but if i just, let's just say how much do agree at where it does that then leave benjamin netanyahu because because then go into rockford county or does he just wait? no,

i think prime minister not send you off. who knows that he can create conditions web by the can be no, almost secrete. how much? lots go into a ceasefire. if prime minister, nothing yahoo is promising. but after a few days of calm, we are going to make the hell scape, even worse, and the americans focuses of his route. blaming, come off, say, well, we don't do, you should do rough it quite that way, unless there is another equivocal. american willingness to say this is miss williams at a sustainable com. whatever line would you want to say? there will be no rough uh, full stop. we all the down tools. if that is not said, then i do not sick. there is the prospect open according a prime minister, not on ya. who knows that that is why he's positioned himself in the way he has thought, prime minister, not to know who doesn't want to take the blame. there's

a pole in these ray media today which says that these really public support by 47 to 30 to the rest of the items. um, a deal that involved the release of the hostages, a pub med and to lease for and to release thousands of palestinians like tyrus palestinians held in his rate prison. he knows that there was not a consensus around rafa. he knows that within these military they were reserved as to have said, they will not show up because of the out. he knows the $400.00 families of soldiers in regular t, t of written to gas and isaac cook, in the war cabinet to say, if you go into roster, it's the end of the hostages. please withdrawal from the government if that's a proposal. so it isn't total pressure. do you need to weigh out from that to total pressure? the way out from that internal pressure is to blame. how much enrolled is that making this hall? this a not a yahoo! it does seem that the secretary of state and the president of just given nothing.

yeah, he's, he's get out of this talk, which way he musicals i get out of jail free talk because he is off to still the prime minister in court. who for his political survival needs the continuation of the war. right now the international community, of course, has made its position clear. president biden's head, the invasion of reference, a red line. not easy to see how the is really offensive on graph. it could be comply with international law, so it says the u. k. deputy for a minister under mitchell frances waiting to do. and secondly general has said at all. so it is in the soul to unwrap it would be unbearable escalation opinion for all those who have influenced abs realtor do everything in that. how to prevent it so that that's a general view. internationally. we lawrence, 1st up what is a present by me when he says it's a red line? can you bring any more pressure to bad? what if he then? yeah, i did go into a wrapper we didn't do anything as well as the one the senior guitar. you negotiator told me i asked the americans put in 20 percent more pressure in israel

. this thing would have already been over. but let's talk about outside for a minute. the americans keeps saying no but, and the black means protection of the 1500000 civilians in does around the roof. and the way to sort of see where that's going is the 40000 tents 440-0000 people which began to be built north of alpha and then doesn't seem to have gone any further. these railways are telling the americans nothing would happen until after passover, and it would be $2.00 to $4.00 weeks to move everyone out. before the ground evasion the americans were saying it should take more like 3 to 4 months to move everybody. and then this gets to another thing that i could sorry, english here. toby said this is basically about hostages prisoners a troop movements. and when he says troop movements, he means which, where to the israelis pulled back to. and the latest offer was sweetened with a pulling off the nets or in corridor which divides north and south guys and the opening of those to roll. ready was rows of the main roads that go north,

south and guys, and also big moving into population back towards the north, which would presumably need to be supported by the new $230000000.00 peer being built. largely because the strategies won't let in a despite all of the arm twisting americans says it's doing on the aid. and so all of that suggests to me that things aren't as imminent on rock, but as they keep saying um, blinking did say again the day before yesterday there's no plan. we've seen austin testified the same thing yesterday. so the americans are not signing off on about 5 and would want a massive protection of civilians we haven't seen yet. so in essence the americans kind of box and that yahoo in without anyone really recognizing it or giving them credit for it. they're basically saying ceasefire. or rafa operation in a way you've never done any of this operation and that's something that the knows have in a hard time swallowing. and that's one of the reasons we're also at this impasse at no, i'm going to throw it to you now for any coming off the back of that. but i just want

to say this is una chief mountain griffith said that the simplest truth is that the ground operation in rafa will be nothing short of a tragedy. beyond woods. no. yeah, absolutely. i think it would be apple looked at, i mean, we've seen the scenes of the aftermath of ground invasions inside of newness in unless i think of the city in the last year. and they are caesar our destination, who are 6 months where you have an entire population that is now nutrition. that is the t as law, you know, loved ones that knows there's no way out. there is no, no hospitals to go to events. and then you've got yourself a combination that no amount of aids can possibly a medium 8 or, or make, let alone the fact that a would be very difficult to come in and so on. but i think what's really interesting right now about all these statements for hearing from lincoln or from

washington is just how elastic those american red lines are proven to be. and we see nothing the whole push the boundaries time. but again, since october we've seen and kept the bi ministrations willingness to use the stick instead of the carrot and every time he's come on top. even when it comes to the application of us law regarding you know, the allies, that's fine, like human rights regarding the legal, regarding a settler task regarding of the tax on humanitarian aid workers and saw. so i think in many ways mentioned y'all do that no matter how much he, it kind of turned his back to the administration, given the fact that this is election season, given the fact that by his so i have logically married. so the idea that there can be no daylight between israel in the united states, but basically not from,

you know, getting away with whatever he wants. he's now focused on keeping his coalition. and as daniel say, i want to stay in power of staying out of jail. so if it takes up, taking the was by surprise is going to the i think he will do it. and that's, i think we're all lead tonic, the justifying panic on the ground. in the lines, the knowledge that nothing you can get away with it and that people have to figure out where they will go, which you know, over which role they will try to pretend it's not done. you'll have to you with this question. benjamin netanyahu says it's all about finishing off a mass 1st. what do you think that's possible because many degrees permanent lead is including the r, as in what a believe to be still alive. and the believe to be that. but nobody knows, for sure way, if they all and secondly, how disabled is a mass from your perspective? it's a, it's a, it's

a nice narrative. so nothing yahoo to have a, as i said, i don't think is any, any hard to do, right. i think he has a problem because if you don't go into rafa, he called tell that story anymore. he called say, well, now when we do rasa, we'll actually, i've been rodney kay too. thomas, this has been 6 months where it's not all that well on the back and field for as well. so a mazda is quite effectively used. it's a symmetric capacities, of course, it's been devastating for the palestinians inside also, but the military themselves do not have a consensus around bravo because they also no longer have a story to tell mr. these rating and disabilities shot to the side of the 7th. the only can still say, well, if we'd be allowed to do rough, uh, then we really could have finished this job. but pressure men couldn't go into rough or, and you weren't going to have. this is what some of the nutri come and take them to some of the leaks they've told us that they're not looking forward to that. they

know that some very unpleasant, let's say fighting weights, these rating ministry in rafa. so know how much will not be eradicated, how nothing yahoo will not have his total victory when it was the 6 month anniversary meant. if he's ready, military commentators were saying this looks more like total defeat up in total victory. he needs to pump this up, but i don't think there is a belief that this can be done. i think the americans have tried to say, can we give you more goodies? can we sweep the part with a deal with saudi arabia and i think nothing. yahoo has looked at this and said it's not react or awful. i will both please mister president. and if it's not, you can just be both someone else will give me both. just as i go out codes and abu dhabi, i didn't have to choose between the 2 of them. i could maintain all of the occupation and get normalization elsewhere. and that's what i expect to you. and so not a yahoo! i don't want to suggest that he, he feels,

every leasing is in his corner. he has felt so precious. but unfortunately, every time the americans cut to the level, the matches, most of which is the continued homeboy of weapons. to continue this war. they chose not to do, i don't see any change, and i know we're coming towards the end of the prager on to the shift type, just very slightly. what about agent? what's the agent's role in all of this? how worried would egypt be about? a potential is really invasion of rough or the agent should be, as i think, very worried about this is a threat to its national security. egypt is the, the country bordering got, it cannot be seen as shooting at the study in seeking refuge and safety in a federal era country. but at the same time, it does not want to go down in history. is the country who allowed or to say located the expulsion of the yeah yeah, from their home then. so egypt i think,

will do whatever you can to push things towards an agreement, even if it were, you know, how good agreement, whatever kind of agreement that can be reached momentarily hoping that that could kind of snowball into something more significant, free just this is a spread right and its stores, and it has to do something in order to at least justify where it stops to expose that your students, people, and not not look like a cell, a williams big protest going on in the united states as is where we've been covering all sorts of prices happening as universities, as it is right now. so if that was an invasion, a rafa, what would the implications of that be on the numbers turning out that those protests and the potential for that getting more out of hand. if it's ready troops to go in and the implications, of course, as daniel's reference in this election year with president biden,

going to the polls in november. and i think it'd be quite a massive. i think we're getting close to 10 percent of all americans, 4 year colleges having major protests and the numbers are just growing with each necessary police action. and similar to police actually been able to check, but most of them are just applications of state violence or no good reason and it will continue to grow. i think there's been a mistake in analysis that this is going to force the by and any help of the way. i think it's actually happening. it's now that it's a progressive orders and having most of meters are saying they would never, ever, ever vote for fighting that's pushing by then back to the center that he builders and all that. and i don't think the purchase will massively aspect of buying this decision making, but the general position of americans now that the democratic party is this needs to end immediately. if i could just add one thing that to norris answer addictions

to threaten to um, suspend this peace treaty, which would be pretty important. and the way that the order snatched there was a terrible article and foreign policy saying that you didn't meet your taking the refugees, which just started give them the history of $48.67. and they've got that population . but i really do believe if i can just add one more point that there's a proof of concept here that american pressure can work. it works just worse than 94. let's try that and then $24.00, c 5. it forced east, really response to ran to be less it for c, its right, at least at one point to quadruple the a going. and although it's more fully insufficient, and it delayed the rough operation by 3 months now. so there's, there's america pressure can work and americans just have to push just hard enough . that's the good, sorry. said to force in that then yeah, whole into this each bar and it, it can be done like it's done in the right way. daniel, con american pressure. what, here's the question for you spend for 3 months where the rec and will be then i

think we will be probably a wave is re troops in the process of doing that was and you know, where in the summer sheet is a factor of the family in spite of disease, humanitarian crisis is not going to go away. i think it will be waiting with some really interest as to what the democrat convention in chicago is going to look like . i hope that's not where we all, i do not see. the americans have pushed off roughly, i think nothing. yahoo has been in no hurry. i think he's made it treat was not ready for. ready and i also would not discount the nothing yahoo still has all the makings options. when is the lar and the north and the file on the escalation with the land is not yet close spots russian. i would say israel

would be able to advise to continue to test its military only pulse in the region because it is, i would argue the story, not so very, very serious future problems for itself at home in the region and internationally. those don't play out according to an american elect tool calendar of a few months. that's all right, we run out of time left and leave with the lady nor a day, and william laurence. thank you very much for joining us here on out is here on inside story and thank you to for watching. you can find this program and hold on more on a website. i'll do there a dot com is the address and for further discussion, just go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash a inside story. or you can also have joined the conversation on x or hindball is at a j inside story for main o'clock in the whole team. here the,

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