it seems, but the main concern is how these people are able to feel that live with detailed coverage hall teeth tooth has been on the heavy ariel from above and for months. now the residential building here is just been here from around the world, which we'll see here is a catch of mussels of the fisherman used to be able to get these just by going about 20 minutes from here. now we have to go out at least 4 hours norway, ireland, and spain announced that they will recognize an independent palestinian state. we live in europe and nations follow suit. and what does this mean to palestine efforts to become a full member of the united nations? this is inside story, the hello and welcome to the program. i'm several of any until now. most western

countries have maintained that they will formerly recognize palestinian statehood only at the end of a peace process with israel. but after nearly 7 months of israel's devastating war on gaza that has killed more than $35000.00 palestinians, norway, ireland, and spain say they won't wait any longer. the irish prime minister drew parallels with his own country's declaration of independence from british rule. but the european union is divided on the issue and larger powers like france, say, it's not the right time to recognize a palestinian state. and the u. s. veto still holds back palace times bid to gain full membership at the united nations. so what does this increasing recognition of palestinian statehood mean? we'll put that to a guest in a moment 1st. so this report from image and camera. how this going to be recognized as an independent state from the 28th of may. but at least 3 more european countries of today. arden's, norway and spain are

a 9 saying that we recognize the space of pa, this thing, each of us when i undertake whatever national steps are necessary to give effect to the decision that the old, the grand israel has stepped up. it's been bumped into across garza, a will that has killed more than 35000 palestinians and reduced to much of the strip to rumble on my sensor. all the steam risk notion of palestine is in support of motor forces that are on a retreating front and a protracted southern crew conflict. this is an investment in the only solution that can bring lasting pace in the middle east. a 2 state solution video. adding that the 2 state solution is best for both palestinians and israelis. and this is the only way to ensure peace in the region. and the demarcation line should be from the almost disagreement of 1949 with your recently as the shed capital. it's

the other european countries joined suit including slovenia and molto israel has responded with anger, immediately recruited some buses from new away and island. israel would not remain silent in the face of those undermining its sovereignty and endangering its security. today's decision sends a message to the palestinians and the world. terrorism pays these countries chose to reward from us any run by recognizing a palestinian state. will palestinian officials have welcome the decision in this one? it is a very important in determining that i understand people in our people to that's the substitution. and also it's a, it's a lot most only a, most of the, the fact that it has to be is, it seems that that means busy now and on saturday. that's fine. is fine. today's to

patient to prosecute to the international criminal. cool is requesting arrest warrants for these ready to administer and defense minister for the war on garza. he's mostly seeking warrants for the rest of the top mass leaders for the october 7th attack on his ro, our reactions among western leaders have been split on this with the us and u. k. speaking, act against me for the european union says the icpc must be respected. wednesday's decision by the european nations to recognize palestine could create a split among western allies within major international organizations. bought gifts policy showing another victory and its long journey to achieve full state code. imaging came out to 0. the inside story. the so let's bring in or a guess intel of eve. you'll see berlin. a former is really cabinet minister who initiated the also piece process in 1992 in barcelona. julian barnes basically

directs the middle east and north africa program at the european council on foreign relations. and in the getaway in the u. k. con ross, a former british diplomat assigned to the united nations who resigned and founded the non profit advisory group independent diplomat. a warm welcome to all of you. you'll see i want to start with u. v is really government sees this as a deeply hostile i'm as a for recognizing palestinian statehood somehow diminished israel. does it? nope. in no way. i mean, hey, do asked me, i will do the is this is dated to i believe that there is no other and there is no better solution for both people. then to have to state the solution. in my view, it should be under an umbrella alpha configuration of 2 independent in southern states, a but the 2 thirds of motion is the basis for any solution. and between the 2

people as long as you want the solution. if you don't want to have a solution, then no solution is acceptable by you. but to say that it is healthy and use why? i don't see how. why do you mentioned this idea of, if you don't want the solution, do it? are you implying are these really government doesn't want the solution? there is no question to the nothing in the us government, not all of them with goals that the reasonable for the fix, which is the only thing or the others a by doing x and the they, they close out against any solution with the police, dns and then they developed a law or any development cod ross. as a former diplomat, you once worked, we set it at the un, what you actually did at the time. and you've explained this on your sub stack was to try and increase palestine status at the united nations. that was part of your, your diplomatic efforts there. so. so based on that experience,

you woke up today and saw this news of recognition of palestinian statehood and you thought what? i thought it was a positive step, but i think it diminishes the diplomatic space for israel. it shows very clearly the israel, the actions in gaza. have reduced its diplomatic credit, but to have made it more isolates and then in the world, all of that is very positive. and i think it moves as towards a conversation about what kind of solution long term that might be for the israel palestine situation. i don't, i'm the lines in my own mind. but the only thing that will work to move is around the tools that kind of solution is in special pressure and serious international pressure, much, much smaller than we have seen up until now. to julian, i want to ask you whether this recognition is going to build momentum for more recognition, but allow me a little bit of a preamble some, some facts for our viewers here because it's not the 1st time far from it. but the countries have made this kind of move, in fact,

143 of the 193 member states of the united nations already recognized palestine, norway, spain, an island added to that group. that will be a $146.00. palestine is a member also of many international organizations, including unesco, the international criminal court and inter paul. and this month, the un general assembly overwhelmingly voted to back, palestine is bid for a full membership, but the us has consistently blocked it at the security council. so at the moment, palestine remains a non member, un observers state, that's it status. so back to that question does, does this recognition of statehood by 3 european countries at the same time? does that build momentum for more recognition really reflects the direction of travel as you, you said in the lead on that as being a, a whole series of concepts taken to the different levels of recognition. this is 3, a quite important european countries coming out now on top of the 90 you member states

and did already recognize as a sign. i think it's very important and you've got countries like frost and even the u. k. putting this on the table now, i think there are others like belgium and sylvania in the you're also thinking of this. the decisions are clearly, there is a lot of thinking about the recognition that something needs to change the parties on the ground or stop the situation and kind of blew, blew to the interested in conflict. and under the need to, to try to establish a new equation. i think the real question is, as well, comes along side that show we have more european states moving this direction. we see a lot stronger the global south last to be pushing for this but, but is there a strategy to, to really take for the front of me is ready to under more pressure to recognize the need for, for a political tractor to say solution can be used in a more meaningful way to, to kind of leverage political change of reform and the palestinian system,

which is also a necessary component of moving forward. so so, so this is a symbolic step in many respects, but it's a fast and what was that from, from the perspective of some 2 european states. and it could well kind of be the beginning process of more in europe and maybe even more you're more important in europe and tell me alongside this, your senior views on that. is this the beginning of something? and if so, what is it? the beginning of i'm not sure, but this is the beginning of some big guy. i can tell you something about what happened in 99. we had to in the negotiations for it towards development and degree meant by making the full 1999 a. according to the also the stages now nothing happened in on that date and the fragment is still on, on these are these side will some of the by the name of the bean and teneo. and they a, and the police being a leader. so say if by debt to date a,

there is no developmental, nothing really happened. we really recognize what we would declare you and you literally it, but it's being in state and they will, you won't be in country. so assault that today they should follow. and that the idea and that there was a building conference, a, i think february 99. you can reach a deal was to, to declare that if you know is in, in fuel mass, there is no development. that would be a decision of that. you to stop to stop both of those, the eco and it was being in the state. i went to, yes, there are real side. and i talked to the, to me about about that it was a then in the position. and i asked him, or what does it think about? and he said the following, so you'll see, you have to know what is important for me when the war simple, the police getting calls back. what i'm worried about is that it is not enough.

namely, we already had done that, i remember the number 123 countries, which a recognize the police being est since november, 1988 when day about his being as kingsdale mind about it 2 state solution. now, what i'm worried about is once the war recognizes the police thing and state or the what would be such as 5 do it, what do you do deep and we're not go ahead with that. it is not enough for me. what i need is be 3 q. i need the 2 state solution, but the reason why. so i'm not sure that because that, that is exactly what i wrote, that told me then, i mean, it is not the same situation. so to use a m o mo, but it seems today then, and of course we cannot compare it, but live with this one should remember something like that. meaning that even i say

i, i think it is today. so our father did not want to say to be an empty shell, go that i'm telling you what it's doing is between not big enough. and it might be a substitute for real stages like pushing for piece for re a piece. pushing the 2 sides towards piece to julian icon. i see you nodding this this at the so sorry, go ahead. look at the, come on for us just because the nodding was strongest there. well, well i, i don't. well, you'll see by then. so it was, was very interesting and very true. i mean, i thought a lot about this and i can't help. but i think the, the diplomatic approach to building up the resolutions demanding an end to the occupation and indeed the strategy of pursuing recognition. so tell us time and one way this has been effect. yeah. for the past and use because those things have not gone to the posting in one single square inch territory ever. it is the

direct process between these readings and the palestinians that have agreed that but also actions by the palestinians such as the intifada on the ground that triggered israel to actually engage in those processes. and i think that should give us some quotes for reflection. it's very, very clear to me, but the only thing that they've got to drive is towards the 2 state solution to any political solution that guarantees the rights of the palestinians as well as the israelis. at the end of it is pressure on israel. you can have been taught general assembly recognized pablo started, you can give us time for membership of the us. it will not give so control of the whole westbank control of casa for an international system of administration of jerusalem. julia to yeah, i was, i mean, i'm very much in agreement with all of that. and i think my, my son, susan, my question is on the beginning of some kind of european strategy. oh no. and i

think what is being said, but, but by the truly get to the vaccine to, to the right point by and then on cell recognition will do right now. and the question is whether there is an underlying strategy. they can increase the pressure on the route to take the necessary steps to move toward the track, whether the europeans are prepared to roll out the slaves and engage a more honestly and, and will prepare and some of the steps that are needed to, to leverage palestinian political reform, i mean, these are the key dimensions that would create the space or not for a process. i agree with john into the con, this question or international pressure. an ice summation is critical, not the way the government, but i think most of these really public in terms of showing that there is no viable alternative if they want to be a exec data and as a stakeholder moving forward, but the same of the palestinian so they need to recognize that there was a, by that alternative to offer assistance. but that also in the sense that takes them

now taking the steps to change it to, to, to home their internal make up, which has always been a huge handicap. and often the rails in a sense and the easy part way for way from political tools to so don't. okay, so i've asked all of you about statehood and you've pretty much all answered by framing it in the wider context of negotiations. piece of the push and how do you get to a long term solution. so in that case, you'll see, let me go back to you and ask you this because you were an initiator in the also piece process 30 years ago. and it failed. it didn't work, but it remains the most significant, most comprehensive push for peace in the history of this conflict. what lessons did you learn about that and about it's failure that you think could potentially be applied today? what i believe that they, the most important thing is that you can be if both you can make bases both sides

a of ego to make peace, a little to adult. the soul about it may have it may a suggest ideas a, i don't think that they have so bulky is going to impose the need to on the bodies pinions not on the diesel and he's a beast. and they, and does he like in my view of the most important thing is that they use rarely government. we change. i mean you, if you have other people and you have to day and the p a is way on the bodies being a side. and we are the difficulties between our mazda and the p. o, a l 5, a, and the, the, or the age of the, of the, the president. i think that the a president, the mazda in the hold of us is ready for use is, is a big support as a result, the simple don't get those dates illusion. i am not i waiting for his replacement a or no, no, no,

not expecting it to happen. bill. and he's above me is about the full full i believe. even full guns, if you remember, the guns is a defense mean is still a invited him to his a home and use way, and the was a big fuss about the, how can you invite a couple mazda to go home. but the beauty, i believe that in europe there on the east, the experienced and did they no legs which may help us and not a to a get to date it to the, to state the solution. and regretfully, europe was not involved in the last years in the past, it was in the ball who involved in, in the 80, with the various declaration. you can remember in other things a, in the last year if it did not happen. so you're saying the major stumbling block here is these really leadership, the current government that is in place and what would need to happen for things to change in any kind of significant way would be for the as really political

landscape really to the change but joy i'm the, the, the, the leaders, whether isn't it? yeah. who, his coalition partners, they have 0 incentive to call new elections. so, and we've been at this in this sort of spaces for several months, right? because they, they could potentially lose seats and lose power if they called new election. so do we also just cross our arms and wait for the clock to run out on this government, which will won't be for several years? in the, in his reading of his writing politics, i think it's clear that netanyahu feels the port of the government because of the kind of pos, no cost of the, not just in terms of him being both for power potentially having to, to, to face new trial so he's pretty desperate to stay in power, but i think there was also a big question for the moment of how much outside the alternative would radio for a new cost way to peace. but you'll see it suggested that the gas is in a better place that i think for most people and you want to, um, but nothing yahoo,

i get coverage and what would it be for us? yeah. but uh, from, from the outside of outside of israel, there is a strong sense that actually there is a degree of alignment amongst the main parties in the months of why the population . the now is not the time to peace with palestinians. and there isn't desire. there isn't a willingness to move towards a 2 state solution that actually by beating the drums of war and the kind of ranking rhetoric you strengthen your political position. so i think, you know, the new government, i think from the outside of israel, that the, the concern and skepticism there are enhanced the sense that actually, i'm not going to ask you about increased international pressure. here's around 2 minutes to convince both the lead and the why the population of the, the way florida in terms of their own stations in the world. and there are relations of when the west and the global south will be dependent on,

on making the kind of a willingness to moving towards a good to track that others are all the us to try not to sound normalization deals are better than that in their own way, but i think everyone everyone is very much leading into the idea now that you have to pressure these ratings. and you have to show them the cost until the right to lation and non deal making with the states. if there is to be a shift to a kind of side bring state hood back into this conversation. there has been just a few days ago, 2 days ago and a very concrete, measurable impact of the recognition of palestinian statehood. and in a way it is when the chief prosecutor of the international criminal court sought arrest warrants against i'm us leaders. yes. but also is really leaders, namely the prime minister and the defense minister that could not have happened and he could not be seeking those arrest warrants. if palestine had not been recognized as a member state of the court, so this is one direct, clear,

impactful way in which state hood does move the needle. that's totally right. you know, without state to, we wouldn't have the i c, c, a cold for prosecution. um, but this kind of increments list approach of the seeking great to international recognition membership with us both of these international bodies that kind of thing. he's all very well, you know, it's good. it's a good strategy to bless you. but i will not give palestine an actual site. what gives you a state? he's your, the country from which you want to become a state secede from. if you like, the california is not succeeding from it. i'm just using a figure of speech not succeeding from isabel asked to accept that you will become a state, is where it holds the key here. this is why there is as judy inside is growing international consensus that needs to be pressure on israel to make this happen. my

question is, will that be such a pressure? the europeans have totally failed to put pressure on israel impala decades to be the occupied territories, as they had been required to do for a very long time. and the us, when folks have happened, have taken the side of these ladies, and there is no sign that the u. s. has prepared to put any meaningful pressure on israel to do the right thing, whether the pardon the ministration or future trumpet ministration. okay, so there's a, there's really a $10000.00 foot question in here somewhere and you'll see this will go to you. you mentioned earlier that piece happens if both sides wanted israel strategy right now is to occupy part of palestine be occupied, westbank, east jerusalem. and to blockade the other part, garza, this is, i'm not sure that many people in israel today would say apart from the extreme right. okay. because their policy is, annexation settled,

a land drive out the palestinians. they have said as much, we know what they think apart from the extreme, right. i'm not sure there's that many is really is who would say this is working for us and didn't do. is there a momentum? is there a critical mass of israelis who think we need to try something different because occupation and blockading has resulted in this? you know, of course, no question. i'm in use eating the numbers. i mean the l a. so they say i go to co surveys and the thought is on. so these, but a, you see that in that then you all himself is very unpopular. i, i think that he was never so i'm functionality and he's a long for me to call a career. he's faulty. it became much is small now in day in the pose. people do not want to and next that westbank for sure. no god. so a, i've seen that a, a different the government the use right in a,

we'd be more much more relatives on the full day. a for most of the of these riley said, and i can tell you about the icbc in dallas to see this decision a and i was one of those will want that he is ready to join the icbc in december of 2000 a. but they regretfully did not, they happened, but a, and as you may know, it was, is riley's and just from a broad hole where the biggest bushes fall for the establishment of the icpc. but the i, that is, is the problem is that they did decision, they all said that the prosecute the a to at least threatens things. it least the foot fully. why and the time, you know, because people even use the not the, the as an admirers of nathan jo. well, not like a to see the, a bread minister inside the situation. and mainly because it was

actually they connected to the accusations against come us even if it was not the quinn and they, they how much the divisions, i'll a moral they, a most serious student defect that both sides a see if it was balanced a well, if use a main menus. riley's will donuts bold, say nathan, you know, it's a simple team. so i, i don't see these things changing that idea. what can change the situation, for example, a president quickly binding a has a plan, a which is a strategic allow you to seek is it really is of all for the hostages. it is a lie, a sweet this o d r a b i n, a negotiations on the basis of it, but his being in a state but the deep all his people lifting a day in the times and the washington post some months ago. he never actually

studied a publicly and i believe that at least for him now to stand up and say this is an american or phil to both sides. that might have a much bigger impact on they is really a public opinion then. okay. and then sanction. so all things like that, i'm not saying that sounds do not, they haven't even book, but i sometimes down having to come to the counter in buck. and i think that thinking about body spins a is, is the wrong way. the right way is to put an option and to see whole supported and to create even is where it says re a debate to day. it is difficult to have at the bank because the officer of, of president, the, i guess, oh,

but i have seen the future will do opinions is not on the agenda. i to all right gentlemen, we have to run. that's all the time we have it today. but i really value your time . thank you very much for your perspectives and your analysis today. and you'll see bill in julian going, stacy and con ross. thank you for joining us and thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website, delta 0 dot com for further discussion. good or facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash a inside story. you can also join the conversation on x, our handle at asia inside stored from me several venue in the entire team here in don't buy from the on the news. yes. again, these palestinian families in rough rep what little they have following forward is from the east really military evacuation or risk that they went told russel where

to provide safety. the closure of the rough crossing has prevented the departure of thousands of wounded people and patients who were waiting to travel among them is a 2 year old lumber of a holy. she and her cousin, sustained injuries, and isabel s try it costs money off to 7 months to the path for more than one point . 5000000 palestinians remain some such and as does this apply to humanitarian aid into this trip with the warnings they could be further depleted? was this place from i'll shoot you a on the sierra 10 to daniel bella, dental rafa. and this will be the 5th displacement, 8 groups holding for israel to de escalate now and say there is no plan be for the people in rough, brutal motors to take 9 to the country and k o l g 0. well, goes to gaming with political schools in the 1980s, with settled by assessing that was a big back. so coming a battle in which south humans, president was part of

a deadly game. i refused to give them my head, will give up power the killing of south pm and the politicians during a routine cabinet. take a 1986, a not to me, of an assassination. on al jazeera, the, [000:00:00;00] the, you're watching the news, our life from a headquarters in delphi, daddy, you know. okay, so here's what's coming up. in the next 60 minutes, garza few remaining hospitals under pressure. doctors and patients are being forced to leave and i will go after is really troop storm. the medical facilities know refuge in garza is really forces bomb