civilians have you seen the photo, so i didn't. the prosecutor ulton did traditional investigation for disappearance, torture and crimes against humanity in the final part of the series, which is 0 follows the fight for justice through the courts. fairly straightforward in terms of establishing command responsibility as families and a lawyer space, a terrible deal in the search for the truth. the lost souls of syria. well now just sierra, the tenuous is the decades old piece deal between egypt and israel. the latest exchange of fire on the border exposes a franchise political relationship in 2 countries, insist piece is best for teacher choice. but for how long as the warren guides of regents, this is inside store the

hello and welcome to the program and serve any a officially egypt and israel are at peace. but beneath the surface, a diplomatic dispute has been brewing for weeks. israel pushed ahead with its a salt on the roof of the area southern gaza bordering egypt. ignoring cairo's many objections and exchange of fire that killed at least one objection soldier this week has only worse and already tense relations. both say the incidents will not impact the peace deal signed more than 4 decades ago, but that's a growing is really insist, it's, we're on gas, it will last as long as it takes until a mazda is completely defeated, while egypt rejects any outcome that will be at the expense of other countries will bring in our guest and a moment after this reports by x assignment which hold error scary. the cascades of an addiction board, a guard killed during an exchange of fire between his rarely and egyptian forces throughout the border. crossing. both sides have confirmed the incident and say, investigations are under way the directions have

a great deal of concerns about these developments right at the, at the border of assign i these to get the security implications are, you know, extremely important for exemption national security concerns in recent years, incidence like these have been aware of egypt and israel sherell long and complex history shaped by territorial disputes. tell us thing is best for state code and regional power dynamics. since israel was established in 9048, multiple conflicts have strained their relations. during the arab, israeli, or of 9067, israel captured this sign i peninsula leading to a prolonged the military occupation. in 1978, the camp david accords marked a turning point, resulting in a peace treaty the following here, and the establishment of a buffer zone between egypt and gaza, known as the philadelphia cory door. initially,

israel had sold management of the corey door, controlling the movement of goods and people until its withdrawal from casa in 2005 . since then, egyptian forces have taken over patrolling duties. but israel still expects all deliveries into the territory essentially slipping high since israel's warrant. gaza began on october, the 7th egypt, often a mediator in the israel palestine conflict has struggled to find success this time . earlier this month is really military to control of the palestinian side of the roof of crossing. the situation further deteriorated when egypt announced it would join the south africa's case at the international court of justice, accusing israel of genocide against palestinians and gaza. as these really army persists with air and crown, the salts and rough and international pressure mounts and israel to stop killing palestinian civilians relations between the neighbors are frank dinner. by to day

axels, i much al jazeera for inside story. the as bringing our guests to unpack these issues in london, h a healthier is a non resident scholar of the middle east program of the carnegie endowment for international peace and television, or a drawing me as a journalist. you were a spokesman for these really governments during the administrations of it's like a bean and shimon peres that was during the also peace process. and in cairo ambassador who st. hardy is a veteran. egyptian diplomat was involved in the process that led to the egypt. israel piece agreement in 1979. welcome to everybody. but 1st question to you and baset are when you see an egyptian border guard killed in an incident that involved is really troops. what's your level of concern? right. it's not only concern sure about much more than sadness and

dismay. that after all these years after signing the pc team back in 1979. israel has been kind of that, that many people could ations with such a scale on our borders. and the country with who assigned this b. c has violates the spirit of the peace street. by okay, buying the punish senior inside of the crossing by deploying troops on the borders of egypt was the governor sip. and on back to anything this war for take months in garza, with the pretext of destroying completely how much not the only descriptions. but almost all across the world,

that is the consensus that this objective, this use of objective of destroying from us is a pain of a. so when we here is it, i usually put additions and the is that i use any of it. i, you are for salts saying that they are bought to continue this war until they destroy thomas. then i'm afraid to say that the question is not thomas the question and that this will for the present government, the israel wants to stay in the state before was the palestinians directly. okay. and, and directly with other countries, including egypt today in egypt, or was it, can you pause for a 2nd? why a sorry, excuse i,

i just caught the end of that word. the whole of egypt is isn't morning for i think you were about to say uh for the death of that border. god. yeah. i did that. yeah . yes. yes. the japan soldier that was killed. yes. yes. for name by as of a he but it's and i so that's is that he but it's was better today in his hometown castle zip. the people invested. it's not something i do want to bring in or redraw me on this uh, re your, as we said, former is really government spokes person. you've been through your share of crises . what's your level of concern when you see this gyptian board of card killed in an incident that involved is really soldiers this, that's all i want to expose my uh grids, but then also to i. and also by the way, there are lots of lots of people in guys who. ready were not involved with the commercial real sensors, but uh,

that's not forget what brought about all this and that is a news a deck on the savings of i'm us on the page to the is really. busy dollars and a and comple team a so it's not just as rarely. oh, is there any woke up in the morning and the start of the war? it's it's, it's something that was forced on us to do because you prompt to accept the fact that next door to you there is this. ready ready ready bottom of the rather garbage down, which by the way is, is by the egyptians themselves because it's the extension of the is the. ready muslim brotherhood and by the way, i don't think many and with all due respect to a, a muscle. ready sorry is the words, i'm not sure a present the c c o they did tell me that you wouldn't be so sorry to see

come by say it is not destroy. ready please, critically we can because it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a dangerous to egypt as well. so i would say that this, this was forced on the on as well. and by the way, many and as well now the, the cultural, the end is for the exchange of, of the hostages is really most of the use in the, in the hands of from us. so i think we should come to a, to foxridge a conclusions about the government situation. okay. or a couple of things here. so you said multiple times that the war was forced on israel. that's something we hear from is really officials and, and retired is really officials as well. there are, you know, palestinians would dispute that and there are many, many in the international community who would dispute that as well. just as

a reminder, door of yours is realized on trial to genocide, the chief prosecutor of the international criminal court is seeking arrest warrants, not just against some of the leaders, but also is rarely leaders for very serious violations of international humanitarian law. and, but that is that, that's not the conversation we're having today. the conversation we're having today is one about egypt and israel, there's been 45 years of peace. and this is a pretty remarkable achievement because israel does not have great relations with its other neighbors. jordan notwithstanding. so my question to you, if i can come back to that is when you see that an egyptian border guard has been killed, what is your level of concern for the israel egypt relationship? i'm not concerned in the long run because. ready as they were talking about tactical incident, which is rick full, eh, rateable in the budget. but this, so the, on the associate level,

israel and egypt have strong, uh you and you know, self interest. and add to this the fact that both lean heavily on the us israel for a you know, into the both and a mandatory, a simple to and the full. ready ready economic support, which in the in the car i'm dire situation and he is very critical. and this is why off the talk of the president by the end and the bizarre c. c. uh egypt agreed to resume the. ready the info or 5 ale file you might have that room a so i think i'm not worried in the long run for the relationship between these within the egypt because. busy of not because of a mutual love the silver lake, but because of the interest. okay,

let me bring in the ha, how you're on this ha. the when we at the inside story team saw the news cross that an addiction board guard had been killed. you know, we sort of collectively our eyebrows were raised because we thought this, this peace between israel and egypt as last. and since 1979, this is one of the few things that can be relied upon in the region. and if there's something at the end, a border, what happens at the border between egypt and gaza is at the center of this piece. so if something, if there's a serious incident, such as the killing of egypt and border guard, who knows what happens next. so i wanted your take on that. oh, thank you very much for having me. um, so i think it's important just the frame. there's probably the egyptians were on their side of the border um, in an area where of course they're allowed to deploy and sarah territory, this really is they were involved in this incident, are part of the occupying power in unoccupied 3rd street. i. e garza and

so the incident needs to be put into the frame where. ready talking about and then sit in between members of an occupying force. and by the way, i'm not using these words in an inflammatory fashion, trying to get a rise out of anybody. this is the situation international law is a situation according to the united nations security account. so, and has been referred to such many, many times. so, you know, it's quite concerning to see how that can be a sort of mist against the backdrop of all of this. this is an occupation and quite a brutal military campaign. and also when we think about the last 8 months, it's been a 1st of very an effective campaign, but putting about to one side, it's being a very reckless one. and the law of unintended consequences comes into play. and this is something that many ser interior analysts up in the morning about

including yourself over the past 8 months that if you escalates and you do so in such a reckless fashion, then lots of other things going to happen that you didn't. busy find for you did not account for it because you comic con for it's like throwing such as wild down the hill at a mentioning and imagining that you're going to be able to account for all of the factors that will happen to it along the way. and of course, this particular incident is one such example of these unintended consequences. and we can't be sign going about this. we could see many such incidents in the future and they could spill over and they could develop into much grades or crises. and i think that's important for people to recognize and keep in mind this is so ambassador hardy, you heard what h i said to there about unintended consequences. and it is really the center of this discussion and why we wanted to have it because you have what could look like an isolated incident that you don't know exactly where it's going to go. and i, i hear the message by, or you who was telling us earlier, look,

there is that there, there are common interests between israel and egypt to keep the peace, to preserve this peace deal. i do understand that. but we are sort of attuned to this idea of unintended consequences. what, what's your view on that? do you see a potential for things spinning out of control between israel and egypt? uh yeah, i have this uh, this will continue is uh, in guys uh uh there is a possibility of course that things would get out of control and not finally between egypt and israel, but between visit and or the neighboring get conflicts. and this is a possibility that we should, they should take seriously into info account at the live that are the 1st thing. and there's a lot of that zip chance and all of the arabs woods a edu live was eh,

and the war that never ends. that to has this, it made it more than 100000. between that and, and, and the 2 days ago. if i may use between brackets the expression by the order i guess from london at unintended consequences, a consequence that is gonna be shipped has targeted or have target that the palestinians buy this thing and civilians innocent both students. and again, the where it's a share of the shots or get shelter town where they shelter because of the is the e ministry as of them to move to this gap. so and then, and, and this, and this attack not less than $45.00, a bunch of cdns died. and the is a,

he is a very, the prime minister said that it was in something that it's, that it's isaac mistake and that's, that's it. so as long as this war continues the way that we, we have with this uh, of course, that is a possibility that things could get out of comfortable. that is another find that i would like to discuss briefly. your guess from just had said that part i choose egypt, that egypt is not to where it does not to pause. what is their end is doing? i gave this time us and in does that because it has differences. was how much i went on to patricia, what, what he said was that egypt wouldn't mind seeing how much defeated when he and

defeated the defeated here. defeated here means if we take the announcements up is the the senior officials. if they tell you, you're busy, made hundreds of thousands of palestinians in order in order to claim that you have destroyed the $35000.00 on elements or fighters of thomas. but this is not the point my, the fund that i want to meet. if we have problems was from us and we have of course differences was how much, if we have problems and differences, how much we are, we are capable of working them out. but we never will never believe or will never support data still running directly implicit the, or a, or explicitly any data at that on the part of seeing is that, that, that,

that claims that she talks to destroy how much. and how much is mazda part of seen young people? how much is not that? but as the young people decide to have found that they want to make? now personally speaking, i guess we, the, we, now we should, we, we understand that the reason given by the is i the government and visit i, the observers that come on faith there's, for this war and that the october 7th at bax. but i believe i'm afraid that we are beyond that point. now we are beyond that point. now. we don't to, we don't because and one more than 100000 people because of the attacks that have, that does not mean that we support these effects. but speaking about the tax, we should not be doing this. i fax it back to as long as these video keep patient in in, in the west bank and because of

a disease of the gun tested it would remain in place. i guess i dont throughout similar fx in the future and i hope i hope that clear minded is that i use who do you want to live in visa, security when it was with that of neighbors who are out of and muslims go, i have no problems with globe's, this things would use or is it a helix. but on one condition, that is a very i lies that security for it isn't a shot and never come at the expense of insecurity at 4 evictions for but as the ins and other countries and other people. i hope this, i hope that this message will get through to me. it is a public opinion we hold in the meantime, we hold that the discussions that we presume today or tomorrow in order that the lead cease fire a agreement in guys

a way to buy from us. so it really easily is a hostage. it's okay and best of the retreat. but what for the prisoners, and it's a nice but a senior president edit that he is at that point. and he, uh, we would, we would see it would be implemented or though, or no the is that a, the prime minister and yesterday made that made, made a declination declared that the conditions of how much unacceptable. in other words, in other words, that he is not ready for the ceasefire garza so as on this or continues, i don't think that we are in a position to speak about peace between egypt and is it a yes. okay, the respectfully i have to jump in because i need to make sure this remains a dialogue. and so i need to bring a or a back into this conversation where we, i want to bring it back to is real egypt relation is, what is israel's calculus? i assume one strategic objective for is really is to keep egypt on board. the

ties or frame publicly we've seen that headlines, egypt has joined south africa's court case against israel, that the international court of justice, the is really newspaper hearts reported that egypt was considering downgrading its relations with israel of suspending the peace treaty. even this was only this was just earlier this year over israel's planned operation in the, in rough uh what is israel's calculus when it comes to egypt? a i think a israel. ready a and, and obviously i'm not to any official position now and, and candidly i can say that i don't the. ready subscribe to the party suit my government right now. the however, i think the, the,

the uh, um, the really, uh these are the government now uh is holding to is. ready i can do whatever they can in the, in the gods uh without going too far with it. ready licensed agent, so i, it is, it is no secret that on the, on the operational level between the all me, commodities and the security service, it is a strong incorporation open channels and, and. ready ready people try on both sides all the time to make sure that things don't go too far, even, even in the end. this time it's more and the n a and again, icons on the estimated day boulders of the american, the goal, which comes up with that. all those. ready grades have ideas about how to move on to how to perhaps look at the transition. beer is what's the voice over the so

i would say that god could it was a dual questions as to is go forwards the window or as long as a and it's possible. and as long as the international environments allows and the. ready pressure from israel itself allows but at the same time keep the channels open with the making sure. we don't go while government doesn't go too far and jeopardize them really. ready one of the most important and crucial, so the assets that israel and i think egypt as well have and that is. ready ready gibson, uh, easily be strategic by the way, a a bustle. how are you? it was uh eh, i bought it today not get 7 to 9, a egypt. israel

a piece 32 i was involved in. ready and 1993 a piece agreement with that, but a scene is in the status of gravity and many destroyers would like to see is a living side by side uh with a independent but a senior stay. however, uh what really its so peters uh the slow. okay. it says uh i'm going to have the mattress bag gentleman. i mean, the only thing understood. thank you very much already for that. ha, what is egypt passed here? why? because egypt has voiced this discontent. we, we talked about citing with south africa, the international court of justice. what else kind of do so there are different options that are available to cairo, but of course you'd have to bring an egyptian government spokesperson to elaborate

on what they will choose to do. um, but of course, leverage and disregard is very difficult. um you see that the way in which israel has wage this war over the past 8 months on the people of guys has been met with a quite fierce resistance in terms of public opinion, not in egypt, not in the, our broad, but internationally and worldwide. and the i c j case has taken place or is taking place right now. and you've seen a lot of expressions of opposition and so on. none of that has stopped israel. none of that has caused it to engage and to cease fire. and there's really no question that they will continue. um, not in order, frankly, just to get their hostages, because they've already said very clearly that error respective of that they, it's still in tend to pursue this,

this war and gaza. but because there is an environment of impunity, and that environment of impunity is underwritten by washington's refusal to actually use the leverage that it has on these re, the government leverage that. it has leverage that it could use that it could utilize. and that could actually change the calculus of this really the government quite fundamentally because of course, washington provides it with a continuous political cover of the un, but also provision of military arm. so we leverage here that we're talking about is an cairo's. it's washington d. c. and it's there, but i think we need to be asking the question about what can we do in order to it that force is real to change behavior as, as you know, the i c, j, and dance and asked me to seem to want very much all right, that's the time we have for today gentlemen. i want to thank our guests for joining

us in this conversation. ha, how we are over. you drove me and about that or who sent hardy and thank you to for watching. you can see the program again. any time by visiting our website now says 0 dot com for further discussion. as always go to facebook at facebook dot com forward slash ha inside story. and you can go on x r handle at a j and side store from me, throw them in a whole team here and don't like on 2 seconds. next it goes head to the polls to elect a new president with 2 leading female candidates. the country is points to make history. what can the new leader tackle escalating violence color to mexico presidential election on al jazeera, the,

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a new president. with 2 leading female candidates, the country is points to make history. what can the new leader tackle escalating violence color to mexico presidential election on al jazeera, the 70 bucks into all the top stories i'll just say are, is there any strikes have hit another posting in camp in southern gaza, at least 21 people have been killed and then there's a re, the strike could accompany milwaukee. it happened less than 48 hours after another strike killed. 45 people in russell on sunday. both the tanks occurred and what israel had declared a safe zones is their id. tanks and soldiers are now operating in the center of rough up around a 1000000 palestinians have fled the violence and gauze of south israel is attacking rafa, despite an order by the us top court to stop this. so you in security council has

house emergency meeting to discuss the situation in reference, kristen, selena.