the the . ringback the president, but all of them is that on skis, hoping a piece some it will return the world's attention to ukraine's will. with russia for roches. nothing vices and some major will of late is on coming on the chance of success. does it have? this is the inside story. the hello welcome to the show. i'm sammy's a than a pay summit launched by ukraine looks in trouble even before has begun, present, and below the visit landscape has off global lead us to attend the talks in

switzerland in june, but without much success. so far you see the us present, joe biden is planning to skip the gathering brochure hasn't even been invited. the leaders of china, india and brazil may not turn off, and that's left a minister scrambling to find the solution. with his rouse wall raging and garza and russian and ukrainian troops locks in what looks like in this style night cave is desperate to keep world attention on the conflict home. what kind of hope to achieve if moscow isn't there? why hold a somebody says, some of the world's most influential players on board? well, bringing all guests in a moment off of this report by imaging came to a peace conference on the war. and ukraine is set to be held in switzerland in june. but along with some high pre phone lines, russia weren't be the as president build amazing lensky once global data is to

buckets 10 points times the piece that includes measures on you can have safety feed, security, elected russian war crimes, on a withdrawal of russian troops. some of you crying to us as it will be represented, but possibly not. but president joe biden zalinski says his absence would benefit russian president vladimir putin yahveh, shy, strippers done by them. i think the p summit needs president biden and other people who are looking at the response of the united states of america, nathan via, if he's not present, it will be just like applauding pollutants. you personally applauding and doing so, standing the landscape also appealed to johnny's president, changing ping to attend the beijing says would support a conference that includes russia. well, they're in mesa and junior officials in durham, brazil say they might do the same. you were being commission president, us live on the line. german shots that are left schultz and all the european leaders are expected to join more than half of the 90 countries likely to attend

a european. zalinski is also been granted at least $3000000000.00 worth of financial support, along with 30 f, 16 fighter jets from belgium, in spain and sweden. but he says, this country needs more. russia is continuing to push deeper into khaki and don't ask, stretching me crazy. you know me. so lensky says the reason why she was most invited to the tools is because most go doesn't one piece. russia says it's open to tools, but it's also criticized the summit. st presidential elections and ukraine or that you can use. now of course we realize that the digital and see the himself, the incumbent head of ukrainian state has expired. i think that one of the aims of the forthcoming conference in switzerland is such as the wisdom community. the sponsors of the key for g mail is, could confirm that to tennessee of the acting head of state, or rather already known acting confusions. switzerland says the tooks only the beginning of a peace process. but some people are questioning whether that can start without the

involvement of the main adversaries and major world leaders. imaging kimber, alter 0 for inside story. well that spring, and i guess to on pack all of these issues, we have joining us in moscow. andre federal. he's a former deputy foreign minister of russia, and now the chairman of the fund for political research and consulting in london dome into the most o is a senior electra in conflict and security at kings college london. she's currently working on a book on the complex russian ukrainian relationship since 1991. and in case of faith is on my of the executive director of the ration democracy initiative and the political commentator. welcome to the show, if i could start with pizza. so this is really a peace conference when russia isn't even invited one the same time rush, i had sent to all sorts of signals that people did not want to be invited and it

did not plan to participate from the get go. so that's just something that we have to understand. you know, also i think we all repeat expectations. so then, you know, 70 countries agreed so hard to participate and the printer goes away as he is not communicating that after his efforts to draw supports for this event, the figure i'm pulling in is now closer to 90. i don't think that we should to, with too many expectations on the, of this highly symbolic, very important event. but once again, symbolic events, nothing will be decided. there probably aren't these. the last overarching goal is to send a signal that it's not just western countries or banking frames about a sizable chunk of the so called global style with the arts and mines in which this vicious battle now with the you printing is less than the allies on the one hand and rush out, the china and some other countries badly for that you know,

a hearts and minds of the global south. so i think that would be, we do get a sizable portion of the latin american countries, african agent countries, that would be a victory of sorts. will you agree? okay, interesting that use the word symbolic that. let me take this question to andre and moscow. what is the symbolism that is likely to be seen in moscow? would it be seen as an attempt to riley the world against russia? uh, 1st of all, i saw the symbolic event. it's important, the van from many points of view, and of course, a lot. so it will depends how many contracts will be present and what's level for the best. i don't fix it that the present by them can jump from easily to switzerland for a couple of hours speak of this confidence of continuous solo signs of this. so as the most important thing for russia, and why is this confidence as the 7 russian is because zillow landscape is trying

to create a rather wide police co platform for the support of his a piece formula? i unfortunately have to say very openly, that's a restaurant piece formula formulated by president pollutants cannot gather more than 5 confidence behind. so of course, is it ask you will play later on on. this fact is that a rather broad spectrum of countries are supportive. she's point of view and of course it's not the end it just the some way in the middle. this process because at this stage, both a ukraine's approach and most close approach thought that a 100 percent difference and there is no bridge between them. and unfortunately, at this moment, no one can build ops is breach. okay, interesting. dumler taylor ultimately then, is this really not a peace conference,

but rather a conference to riley countries around ukraine's negotiating position. so that when at some point hopefully peace talks, thoughts that ukraine feels it's daunting with much stronger global backing? is that really the point of this conference? yes, i think that's one element of the space called friends besides sort of sharing with as many countries as possible that you create a young position that you bring in front of you. so trying to run even beyond the fine lines of agreement, so that more agreement is found among humphreys on the points that have been put forward by the skis formula. the stronger the position is off a new brand new eventually, you know, more sort of direct a process of negotiations with russia. so on the one hand is to show that the broad support that to be kind of you, great, and these initiatives can have and that's where it's noticed that it is not limited only to the countries that directly not supporting the edge of crane globally,

but also that it includes countries in the global south, potentially china, india, brazil who even they are not going to send their top leaders. they might send representatives on the way and show their support to many of the points in these initiatives. so i think the variety of them and they are, and i, i don't think it should be seen the only as a symbolic uh, symbolic event. i think it also has a very strong sort of political message that could be sent. interesting. i want to go back to, to andre and moscow and ask this question because you mentioned that this is not symbolic. this is an important event. but if we don't see a lot of k will leave this showing up. might that send the opposite message about how interested the world is in supporting ukraine? how important is it? do you think that the number of well leaders a no no it's it's so it's very important 1st of all because

there will be no any kind of final document which you, besides by will leave is etc, etc. so 1st of all conference which will discuss the different sides of the account covers the conflict between the russian, ukraine as it doesn't matter by the way, if china will be on the level of foreign minister deputy foreign minister. because the most important for you credit and for many other countries, how many flags, we will see how many flags we will see. and uh, the most important, of course, is the understanding. and i think that this conference will try to make a kind of funds a stand it if in the 3 a piece stokes up possible or not. this is the most important thing. because as i mentioned earlier at this stage, positions of thought to the difference. and no one can seats on the table. unfortunately, both kiff and moscow, i reject things idea to stop in

a good faces from blank page. and this is, by the way, i deal with chinese, that's the best solution, is for 5 negotiations from blank page to remove a few days existing. the bonds from everett sides then surprise the finds some colon low, some corporate language, some points off agreements and to see what is thought to this agreements remains. all right, let me go to peter peter, what does then do you think represent success for this conference? do you agree with andre? that is, is it the number of flags is the number of leaders? is it a commitment of support? what would you look at and this company to say yeah, it took the box or it didn't? yeah, i think that the figure is very important. you know, the more the merrier is the say, uh yes, uh, bindings and non show which we don't have a confirmation of. uh will be said. uh it,

we cannot rule it out in the presence of this. yes. kind of reacted quite emotional already. he said gladly, we would be holding it. why he didn't show up. i'm not sure if we should go that far, but i understand the motion of our president, the wanting to shatter this event or it's important. so when i say symbolic a does not, i don't mean to diminish it's important. you know, in that symbolism is a 1st class such kind and then don't forget that it would lead, hopefully in the spring, in the fall to a meeting and saudi arabia where russia dos plan to attend. so this could be a stepping stone. so yes, i think overall, i think it was very important. and when we talked about the other alternative plans, the planet is now proposing, we have to be very, very wary of what's at stake. and the western leaders understand that is likely go to meeting with us uh, with a snake who knows nothing but to bite you. we have precedents off a level when russia was bombarding a level and behind of its on behalf of its trying to buy sure. i saw and there was

supposed to be negotiation going off. same thing in 2015, you know, as putting the claims that he was ready to negotiate. he was bombarding series ended on boss a thing. now, he's talking about a piece plan and started by piece dogs at the same time, directing direct shoes on a civilian infrastructure in the car to place essentially trying to follow the, you know, the example to set and the level of trying to destroy that cd or failing that, make the or, you know, residents of this 1000000 a strong cd evacuated. that is exactly what's happening. we have to be very wary of these a piece proposals by latin. please. let me jump in the pizza analysis question. the, the line from russia we've had at times, is that they've also had strikes launched from ukraine onto russian tote tree on to non minute tree installations, at least in, in one case an apartment block being hit with civilians dine that

russia blamed on ukraine. not is it not a case of both sides trying to undermine the others, minute treat position so that they go into peace talks with the up behind the gate. yeah, yeah. i'll just say that, you know, that if we know is the claim that you created was behind this uh, you know, uh, ices, so ordered attack on it, prophesied enrolled in moscow a couple of a couple of months ago. so he does not really prevent russian propaganda. he's one of the notions of decency, did not prevent them from eventing while conspiracy the same thing with the requisition that the plane is targeting stability infrastructure there, you know, they're just in beta inventing alternative information or reality. you bring to never recognize that, you know, and it's this high probability that russia itself instigated for could stated that attack on the apartment block in bel, andre, i'm going to come back to give you

a chance to weigh in on that and also ask the question if you're gonna address it of the likelihood that this leads into a meaningful, sort of next round of talks inside the radio or anywhere else. as such, the fall is such as is not clear. what does this mean? confidence in saudi arabia? because for rational side, the comment is that we didn't hear about this proposals with the overall. what is this? uh, the place is not. so we bought them the well, the problem is that content, as i said a, today's stage positions for the difference. and the question is what, what we're searching for always searching for piece 3 p a which will fix the borders between you, by the rough. uh oh ukraine. all we're searching for uh these agreements

uh, which will not fix the boat is about flu. she will be a kind of temporary solution. for example, like it's a bit to the address in japan. we don't have the full is the case. we don't have peace treaty, but we have a says i agreements, etc. so this is the main question. and the question is from rational side is west not to cram. if west will be ready to recognize you rush motors. this is the key issue without rick at least from the west of new right from motors bloomfield will not go to any conference. let me put a critical question to you to as well. andre fine may from the crime in perspective, the question is very simple. russia should expect the international board as an international law. uh, okay. uh, its stereotypically, yes, that's what i shall not recognize the existing but it's so few gray and rough

seasons. these things that you crave and. busy the west to recognize current realities, maybe future free entities. which means that one of the main goal of this special mr. potential of costs to have come from all over the whole equipment that are 3 of the whole country. dumler taylor is that, realistically speaking, much incentive for either side to really engage in serious discussions before both sides really reach a point where they convince militarily on the ground. that this is a style night which cannot be changed or anything we haven't, which these fine, which was usually not hurt instead of made. i think that from the russian point of view, there is a perception, but now they're in a stronger position. military really advanced on separately from the surface. we know to then also try to keep also neighbors around bedroom boss,

that putting pressure around are the area separate easier. so i think the russian is probably the now is a moment where they can observe more pressure on i've gone side of the on potentially, if they entered negotiations get substantial concession. right. they, you probably never going to have a very difficult time, as we know. they haven't received the necessary equipment on the mission. they have not been able to. he effectively sign a russian directory that goes off several strange that are imposed by some of the countries that are providing aid to ukraine, particularly united states, but also germany. so they have face up to set price on the front lines and they're in a very delicate position. they're not waiting to get a edition that immediate result from the west. and that also includes the stainless ex sixties, which are now grand to back to control space sunshine is some of the russian sort of air error ration. but,

but it's difficult to see how this is going to come out. so you bring as have more to be, they way i had a couple of months, they receive the substantial amount of western the equipment. so there is a big of a window of opportunity with rush my price. let me go. she ation, it knows that it's going to get all the concessions i get wants and these include not only issues around the, the extract us, all the new, so coin voters by the old. so that, for example, you create, we make neutral, the result of the drive ation. such a brand new start and, you know, ready to accept. and i have a sense that ukrainian is defined by john 100, a student ready to continue fighting. and there is hope probably that if the west provide for additional, my too much area allows it to hit inside russia, especially on the neighboring areas. that then uh, you know, it's going to be um,

you know, a better position to engage in naples. i should keep pulling down into that, let me take it to 2 kids and ask peter with the indications coming from the west that we, we have been hearing recently about the talk about maybe releasing some of the restrictions on how you cry may use its hardware with the, the end of that pause we soul of supplying ukraine with weapons some, some of the major backhoes does that. all of that really create more of an incentive for ukraine to wait and try harder on the ground before really engages in a diplomatic or political process. all right, well, you know, no one is it under any illusion that you agree. so will be able to stage a another kind of expensive at this point. i think at this point the goal is to make a part of the balances on the part of the russian army into you're going to, tory, to possibly do honors for what we need to kind of complete their continuation at any. yes. uh, you know, uh you pays that bill, it teacher hits deacons,

that process territory to hit military guidance. that would be a significant fool. but once again, let's not expect any kind of a home. there won't be any kind of a miracle weapon or miracle solution. if that happens, the russian has been actually able to neutralize a lot of the american made a munition. it was behind me or as long it's an attack inside and it's skylar. so by jamming essentially, so we constantly have to be update even finding new solutions. a new plan is already doing it on its own. some of the roles now can reach as the best to a 1000 kilometers into rushes territory. so that may be a part of the solution. but once again, there's no single silver bullet in all of this. it has to be some started out for the west, has to stop be so concerned about atlantic with these red lines. when we cross over red lines, we decided to go like this international world war and the west should stop worrying about the uh, let me put these, you know, stressful concerns. let me take

a point to andre and moscow and say, also looking at what's happening on the battlefield in the ground with russia recently having made advances. does russia have more of an incentive to keep going and see how far it can go before it will commit itself in a serious sort of place negotiation or political process? it's a quite a resorted question. because since the beginning of the year, the russian army took under its control only $660.00 square killed limits, which is not a lot. because for example, that the territory of height of gulf is that the city is the city not to without, without sub ups. is 350 square kilometers. the question is, uh, you don't think andre, that maybe a special commodity came on makes. i can go further of

this thing is of course uh that they need to go further. but uh, how to go has quite the c. there's defense slide needs his bought us because uh, there was no defense line or you claim defense lie. we have the russian border as the main question is about a possible use of u. s. u k, for of, besides on top of the direction that are 30 deep into russian territory as it was not by charles fulton. yes. as i mentioned that some countries should think about the current situation as expert. so they may ask us to, they come into love here, she meant the long but as a possible strike back. so we are standing on the dangerous edge of the situation and it's not kind of golf. it's not done because we are entering the situation when a strikes a strategic strikes from both sides good to and this. busy more in to europe in.

busy or even more or even more to dump a tele there was a reference to the global south in this discussion. all we about to see other countries in the global south pipes launch their own initiatives. it's been some talk about china and brazil putting together their own events or initiatives or conferences when we now have the chinese i've been uh, promoting, uh turn i did for the proposals and so far they haven't really produce much results . i think what we need to bear in mind is that there are countries such as china, in particular that could really potentially exert pressure on russia to compromise . and that would be a really, very important, but i really don't see at the stage any other countries from their so called global to solve being effective in promoting of tactful negotiations. i think the only country that so ha,

had succeeded in reaching or in brokering agreements around the grain idea of what stuckey and that eventually didn't really succeed because it was, it was interrupted by russia and last year. the problem to a certain extent was resolved because the brands were able to dislodge the name and presence of russia in that area to virginia exporting to the black sea to be areas, but they are still controlling. so i think that it's, it's, it's very difficult to see the i propose and that comes from the south. i really haven't really thought, i think what is right about the frequency. the solve is the fact that these countries put online, i suppose, many of the points in the last 2 decent remained on the right. and so i can tell you what i like. i'll let you finish the sol very, very briefly. yes, i just would like to say that there are a few elements in the piece. i remember i forget the support,

our leasing to the issues around the question or for security around your safety around somebody do an issue. and also a very important point is the question now of the mission of the engine nationally recognize. all right, so this is the point where we could see support from the global style. all right, i think we've got about a minute let's, i'm going to try and give 30 seconds each of those 10 andre p to a final thoughts. and to what extent, what happens next depends not on the position of china is done with the has done until it was explaining, but also obviously the 19 states and the relationship between the 2 very briefly. well, very briefly, once again, i think it's, uh, it's really up to the west to decide whether you know, that it's really, it's own more. it's not just don't want to rush right against the crane or in defense of these cranes borders, etc. no, it's a civilizational fine. uh, and it's up to the west to step in or not, right. the west failure ukraine will have

a significant rep regardless for the diet. well, all right, and andre, i'll give you a final thoughts in 30 seconds. despite all that piece of false, we are standing in front of the new stage of confrontation and you stage of moving towards the wall beyond the borders afresh. any great, a, okay, of a learning sort, let's hope set to that piece of 1000. and why is the thinking prevails on all sides . thank you very much to, i guess andre feather of the, to the side of the most. so and pieces on my of, i'm thank you to for watching. you can see the show again any time by visiting our website out to 0. don't com for further discussion head over to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash a day inside story. can also join the conversation on x. our handle varies as a j inside story. from me, sam is a that and the whole team here. so now is provide the

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the, [000:00:00;00] the, someone's there of any age here to have you with us. this is the news. our life from the coming up in the program today is real, kills dozens of palestinians across gaza, as is really ground forces whiting their results on the rock, claiming full operational control of the border area with egypt. al julia proposes a un security council resolution ordering israel to stop it's military offensive in