indiscriminately displaced, certainly forces are systematically targeting health care infrastructure. hospitals have one of the only safe options to seek refuge and to lead became targets from wages war from hospital. i've never seen a soldier inside the hospital. alger 0 world investigates where the east ran is violating international. no, but targeting supposedly a new crisis. dr. silver on hospitals on tuesday, around the pages top security summit test, the gun in single pole pro lies on the us and china. us tensions rise over the future of taiwan. so how is that relationship affecting stability in the region and the rest of the wells? this is inside story, the hello. welcome to the program. on the hill rahman,

defend streets from the round asia pacific call in single to discuss security challenges facing the region. the 3 day summit known as the shangri la dialogue of trunks, high level ministers, military heads, and security analysts. the focus will be on foreign policy with sensitive diplomatic talks, taking place behind plants, tools. but relations are already false. the between the wells to suit the power of china and to the us. beijing has wound washington against interfering, and it's a fast after the defense ministers meant to discuss taiwan. but while that relationship sees no sign of bullying, oh, those are trying to find common ground. so which alliances might be strengthened and could new ones be established? and how is all of this affecting the balance of power around the globe? we'll be talking to all guess in a minute. the 1st image and kinda begins on coverage. perhaps one of the most important meetings, but the age of defense summit and sample is one that is happening on the sidelines

. this is the 1st face to face discussion between chinese defense minister. i've moved on june and his american counterpart, lloyd austin since 2022. and it comes as already high tensions in the south china sea escalating that's been triggered by the election of lodging tay as president until one. so food orland territory, the china records has its own and to be re taken by force if necessary. during the mason minutes, the don't joined. express. china is phone position on the tie. one question. recently us government expressed congratulations on has no gratian incentive delegation to the integration ceremony regarding this minister don't. john said the tie. one question is purely an internal affair of china and external forces have no right to interfere on this joint. it says any declaration of independence by taiwan would be a declaration of rules. that scene is

a response to it's nearly no great and presidents, previous comments when the autonomy join now has recently carried a moment at 3 exercise. just need to, i want part of an overlay increase in military activity, including around the coast, philippines. something manila is described as worse than the us condemns these military moves, but it's carrying a joint exercises with the philippines and continues to provide ministry support to tie one on a strip of like countries along the coast of china. in the asia pacific join, it says it's us minute to activity that is further staking regional tensions a strategy. a bridge in malaysia, new zealand and single pool, the so called 5 power defense arrangements. also say they'll be stepping up minute tree exercises in asia. there's, there is a broadening of the exercises that we are doing in, in the conventional spice though we are increasing the assets that we're bringing to be an exercise of set the time. a lame

a lie to this year for the 1st time as tried. it will be contributed, contributing if $35.00 joint strike products added to that vision as well. so recently hosted our leaders is there relations with the united states, become increasingly strange of israel's foreign garza and the fight and the ministrations decision to allow us weapons to be used by ukraine inside russia. so the rush itself facilities would most go to china. seas as a good neighbor with both countries enjoying what they cool. no limits. relationship. awesome, great. yeah. somebody say tensions and i so high that open communication and maintaining trade the most that can be helpful between the world's 2 biggest superpowers image and kinda how to 0, the inside story. the. so let's bring it all gas in beijing on the bulk is a senior research fellow at the same time center full china in globalization.

somebody who reads a visiting electra and will studies at king's college in london, and also all the soon to be published book west listeners. the great label re balancing. he joins us from london. i'm from maryland in the united states. david ross chase a professor at the south asia center for security studies. gentlemen. good. have you with us so much to get through on demo. can i begin with you because you know the claims over the south china sea garza ukraine, me and ma knowles, korea, the list goes on in this very short program. so because we just start with the south china sea plains, by china, over the years to large parts of it, china is investments and it's navy, according to official frequencies around $1.00 trillion allocated between 202420. 28. china was putting its money where it's now phase. well, certainly in this case where its claim is absolutely, well, i think if we look at the problems facing the world today, whether that's ukraine,

whether that's the tragedy in gaza, that some of a genocide and the rising tensions in the south china sea, that none of these conflicts that are broken out would be possible without the involvement and the explicit support of the united states. and i think this is but fear in the south china sea that will the philippines be in the pacific equivalent of the ukraine, where the us wants to find russian down to the last few premium. is it attempting to find china down to the last filipino and i think china, it has been resolute and clear in saying that it believes on the concept of indivisible security where every state has the right to security, but not at the expense of other states that all countries in the region need to have their interest in concerns taken into account. and i think this is the real

danger that we brought here that the us made. it's the data. another open conflict in this part of the world. yeah, i know david, josh responded, i'll come to you today with david. i'm sure you've got sweet to say about that, but let me get to somebody. put me in london. i mean somebody a i liked yourself have attended the shangri la dialogue. i've reported all day and i commented on it in the past when i've attended the situation is the shangri la di logan single pull that real chance full the thing, cuz the move is the shape of certainly the military sphere. so you might say sort themselves out, have a really defined and very clear chapter about what the agenda is and what the red lines are. well, thanks very much for having me on those spots of the shining real dollar organizing, seen by sustainable for 3 years, or i'm not positive at the moment. but from my perspective, the shot of a lot going on is a, is an extremely useful opportunity for the us and a chinese defense ministers respectively,

to be in the same room at the same time. and whether they decide to meet. and so one on one is, is really down see to them, but they don't tend to end up in the same room at the same spot very often. so it really has a lot of utility bass. but having said all of that last year, lieschen food that then chinese defense witness to refuse to meet me at austin about this year. his success a dollar has agreed to meet lloyd austin. so there is a bit more optimism that alongside be separate, resumption all of us joining another tree dialogue around the re resulting bab industry to not treat hotline to diffuse any pets. actual tensions of mike arrives around the philippines around. so i was treatment of treatment needed specifically i think that's a little bit more expensive than there was 12 months ago. and that kind of thing. so i was really what the driver logged on the dialogue allowance is. it gives you an annual stop take as to why the policy is relationships. and of course, allows the defense ministers and best offer up you were attempting to meet that

contemporaries from other countries where the, where the allies were right. and i think it's always good to know who's in the same room and take them out and do you think they'll take an agreement with you that david click, i'm a to you and washington dc could help you with us. hopefully a chance to reset the button and i think that some, it touched on the fact that the americans of the chinese have spoken not primarily because nancy pelosi visited taiwan and the chinese didn't like it 3 years ago. so they really haven't sat in a room together until today, and this is a very frank conversation by all the towns. but yes, you know, they're going to be talking also about the relationships with vietnam. the philippine south cravings, you're kind of mean they're all full thing. unfolding should i say close to ties with the us with seeing more military operations. and the news is between those countries. and beijing does think this is regional interference from washington dc . how do you count to that conversation? i'd love to be a fly in the room right now in single pool or listening to that. yeah. well 1st off, let me address some of the, a historical examples. yeah,

but we started off jumping off the top rope into the ring. look, 30 years ago the united states had its 2nd largest naval base in the philippines that went away. we had our largest air force base, clark killed in the philippines that went away. our presence in the china c unit issue is a fraction of what it was 30 years ago. in 2014, we went through all our armored vehicles from europe. and what we saw almost immediately was the invasion of a crimea donuts getting the past. so contrary to what andy has said, with a little intervention of gaza for emotional appeal, the case is not that the united states is wrapping up confrontation rather that it tends to withdraw and tries to manage things on a commercial basis. what we're seeing though, is not the united states driving us, but rather the sovereign nation. so in asia and you, you listed them all off wish to remain sovereign and are seeing

a research in china, which wishes to establish a sphere of influence in which it is. uh, basically the facto imperial could show me what the sovereign states vietnam philippines have seen is a chinese headaches section of their software in territory in the south china sea. and their attempts to visit their sovereign terrain. met with force. the united states is the country that they look to, to try to address this impending chinese to germany. but the problem is, the united states really doesn't have the military capability to that it at 2030 years ago. because we are sure china and to an era of commercial prosperity, and we hope that with that would come political reform. now we're facing a reset, but we are not building up the way the chinese are. so basically what you have is a democracy which had a very large footprint now has a smaller footprint and has on easy allies facing

a country that seems to be determined to establish military head, germany over what it regards as its sphere of influence. um, let me, let me make on the, let me bring on the ball kind of in here because uh david, let me bring on the boat because he's also, i think, you know, slightly smiling and nothing. i know that he wants to come in on that. so on the i'm sure you've got something to say hit to david, i'm sure, well david, i think certainly is stating one point of view and i think is a version of history or reality certainly reflects the of the washington consensus, but certainly there is a grain of truth in what he's saying and that certainly the us military has gotten smaller, there have been some of withdrawals, not entirely of its own choice. i may add them, but i have to point out here that i'm calling china is it actions in the south china sea military? the gemini, i think, is quite a distortion out of the statement. the fact of the matter is there are many

contested areas in that part of the world, not just between china and it's all opinions, but in any other countries as well. and china is official position, which it has reiterated many, many times. is that these issues should be settled through discussion of respect for mutual sovereignty without the interference of the house. so i pardons and i agree that this is a big question. i know that us does see and solve as a pacific power with interest in that part of the world. but i think other countries, including the philippines, they've had a very odd trouble, even painful history with the united states. and there's tremendous ambivalence and we see that changing uh, with the presidential administrations as well. we only have to go back to turkey's administrative and to see what the official so what kind of, you know,

filipino position was with united states and it's not unexpected. that with different leaders aren't how, where there are different stances, but i think you wouldn't be not able to say that the us is not exhorting some powerful influence of maybe even the arm twisting behind here. okay, let's, let's bring in some a priority in london again, i mean, you've touched is really all on the, on the next savvy, which is the philippines itself as a nation. and i think that's and the see touched on really what my question was, is that, you know, the philippines, political and foreign policy flip flops, depending on what president is actually sitting in manila. you know, we had detach. i think it was a little bit more vocal perhaps, and a bit more wilma towards beijing. now we've got uh, fetching and bulk of julia bumble moccasins. he's known he's a little bit more. you might say funny tool to us as a problem for the philippines stuck where they all are geographically, isn't it? yes, i think the micros juniors delivering the teen or the summit is doing it for us. so

in advance it rewards the talking a little bit closer to the americans in contrast to the top to is the same. but i think with the so that brings as a few different angles. so why don't you brought in such a position as a sierra mantra, shit, rusting, ship, right? which that's of the reason of line. that's and then use point often that, that by its opposite and harassed with both accounts and things like this. but also in the event of any escalation facilities and so i want the lease on strike is really the most proximate little track from which to deliver the military assistance. but also he met his hair and assistance if it came to that. and if you're thinking very practically about what the turns around, so i want actually and titles, you have to talk to the, to the things in just one last quick comment stuff. how think of sort of feels like like like median to proceed to come to the other guests. yeah, that's the way we like. but that's, and i don't think, you know, having spent history for years and single. yeah, the world really is changing, burn, burn rapidly, and i think most of the, of the or us will china,

it's not really the frame. the countries are for the things of thinking. they all thinking about a much more freaked language in which to the west of all the philippines being a key country in that and in south east asia. not have a little more options too many, but they are still in general in southeast asia, all the things that china for that purpose please, you know, make partnerships. and so the us, the security partnerships that absence is, is a fairly common one across the region. indeed, let's, let's move on now to another, not related, but related subject in china as defense chief told us that they are not providing weapons to either side in the ukraine conflict, china holes, and i quote, an impartial position. and i quote again, we have on the document and not to provide weapons on either side of the conflict in accordance with laws and regulations. we've implemented strict controls on exports of military items. this is another point of contention to certainly with vladimir putin recent visit to beijing. and so i went to a demo,

let's just come in here about the us being very skeptical of china as role in supporting russia. how much of a difficult position? is it full basing at the moment to shake the hand of most go and yet say i want to be a partner in peace across asia pacific at the stronger law dialogue? well, i don't think it's awkward at all, and i know this is how it's often framed in western narratives. but in my view, china has demonstrated that it is neutral. it is pragmatic, and it is non ideological. and because of that, it is able to act as a bridge between roger and it's antagonist in the west, not just the united states, but of course awesome countries in europe are very worried about what could happen in the main and what that might have him sign up for their boss, security concerns. and so i think that china raising new role as

a honest broker here, and certainly has done some of the other parts of the world. iran, saudi arabia is another recent example. so i, i don't see it at all that it's an awkward position, but in fact at home. so i'm, i think quite power. busy full cards that it can use to promote a more peaceful, stable and prosperous world, whatever region of the world we're talking about the that you are going to be that the middle east be that on south pacific. okay, well let me flip that then to submit poorly, because if you look at the chinese influence in the region, we look at me in ma, it has had historically been supporting the been that you shouldn't put into that for quite some time. and now we're seeing a resurgence all independent of the groups, both fighting miller treatment join. it's now impacting on china soil in the knolls that don't happy about it. so it's actually coming back to bite them. yeah, i would strongly contest a full try and the china is an oldest burg diseases national interest like like any

state on sunday during the fights, it's not much more results and well thought of seeing the well to see this national interest that veneta before and several centuries since a century few nation. so just with regards to me on my eyes is with the the i need china because they're brushing is a big uh, arms provide to me on the hunter as well as the boss. so the number of issues around the well, yeah, mall and ukraine. china and russia find themselves so more on the same cylinder or the bonds that exist with regards to me on more may not be the key that happened. then in february 2021 to another, treat to power. i mean, the amount of the constant rack states has many overlapping set for an air is complete as a nationalist for it has the crew. it has a, there's resistance groups pushing back against another tree. that is a very, very tricky situation for the chinese rather chinese, it's like waterfront magic role and launch that, that commercial interest that for the security as you know, that,

that playing that role, which would be on the line. so that's like a sort of a parent or role of the town about enough dentist on, but i role, i think there is it not judgement of regimes. the not being democracies opposed to i think the chinese will look if they can do business. they can secure that their interest and now be very happy to proceed. i tend to think china is besieged as it almost broke up. i think what china will be perceived as it is. it says any up to 8 in diplomacy years down the line, the china can be a guarantor for russia just as the us and the even you came to be a guarantor of the frank. apple piece process is the featured, talking just to have a guarantor, a front of the channel, someone who will maintain each organization. ok. joiner is more of a last lot of if in the frank conflicts equations my think as an oldest bracket for everybody. david, so i just got a brief response to you on that before i get to my notes, credit question. well, the main issue. try isn't a difficult position with russia, ukraine, because of and as, as anti noted, there's a lot of european concerned about this. and i would,

i would argue that the europeans are actually driving the train here and out the united states. and we're interested, but this is about vital matter. we haven't seen the evidence of direct provision of military uh, seems like shells and missiles. but the concern is over dual use technology. most notably, machine tools used in russian weapons, factories, vehicles, and communications that are used on the battlefield. and i think the concern for china, which is a great country because of its commercial trade, is that the europeans are at the point of saying, look, this commercial trade is threatening our security. and so we may have to reevaluate our commercial relations with china. that's a, that's a problem for china, particularly as the economy is slowing down, is the real estate bubble burst. so this is one of those rare issues that is only marginally american chinese. yeah. well, if the calls one with but will be discussed, let's talk about north korea now. i move comes 2nd long. it constantly surprises

the international community. that is when we saw a rocket launch after another, a no one really seems to have a handle on who knows grey was talking to all who knows, quit wants to talk to listen to david just very quickly. i mean, how do you handle most creat diplomatically? and certainly that must be a conversation to having in simple yeah, good question. so the 1st thing is look, the north korean conjunction regime, which is a diagnostic repressive regime. that is, it's hard for rational people to comprehend. it only is able to exist because of chinese support. now i understand that, you know, they have interest in not having a completely failed state on the border. but um, you know, do your own research. everything you see is crazy. um that being said, uh we have tried to talk with the attorneys. donald trump tried a little bit too hard or i'm sorry with the north koreans tried to hard. um, i think china can play a useful role there. just because they're the only people the north koreans want to

talk to. but the reason why they do that is because they're the vital enabler of the machine. and this is going to be an irritant. so as long as you've got crazy going on in north korea, somebody can i bring you in, is this a conversation that would be sat behind closed goals and single pole where the americans would voice that concerns to the chinese. even north korea, are you the countries with voice concerns about those created for region for the past? and for last, just remember the trajectories and of course the south koreans included a but i think there is a way to regional picture with regards to east asia, north korean. and i think with that definitely feature in any dialogue of security in the region. and that is simply, this little career remains unpredictable. idiosyncratic is it as the 2nd sign, but it's also in line with russia and in line with china. and the possibility of that. so that eastern symbols that's, that's the, that's what pacific and,

and the cds around japan become an area in which latrine, russian, enjoying these monitors, jointly drilled to that is, is a very probable medium. so feature that spartanburg consigning something minus age disease. let's see. on creating peninsula that's been in reality in east asia. we're decades pump deck, as long as the 4 of us live. honestly, it shows up see the signs of waning as, as a, as an acute problem. despite the facts, philippines, and fun, i want another issue, something you guys off on the agenda and catch your attention to that little 3 is a perennial issue and, and the continual concern. yeah, i think the agreement had, i spoke another 2 big important subjects i want to talk about. so we really called have this dialogue and this conversation between us without mentioning the asian elephant in the room and not his garza and the recent membership of palestine as voted in by the un general assembly nations. that was mike decided with the us like single poll like australia who were the shangri la dialogue voted to allow

palestine to become a member of such in the un general assembly. this will look the united states, i'm sure, because i like to be able to talk to the allies in the asia pacific region. very clearly on the bulk, what sort of conversations using blinking or even the they, the defense secretary will have, i mean, load often actual will be talking at length about this context goals. sure. well, i'd like to briefly go back to the north korea, but very briefly, i'm sure nobody at the time that i've seen this as a blind spot, that the u. s. has describing the g p r. case crazy. i think they're extremely rational and played their cards very well. and i think this is also related to the uh, gaza conflict as well that the us is in a sense, losing control of the narrative here. that the propaganda you were you kind of believe me, you're in your own eyes when you look at the 10s of thousands of innocent palestinian women and children that have been murdered,

that this really has created i think, a major turning point in the south western countries and there's no turning back and i think for us is on it's actually it's going to be in a very marvel position here, whether these are the department of defense officials, state department, or even the heads of state. it's like present invited are increasingly unit on a difficult position, a david rush, i mean, in terms of comments, you know, we have this whole re evaluation of the american administration. so being thrown up in the yeah, in the last 24 hours by the conviction to full, the president from who's now still running for the presidency in terms of the asia pacific countries. how would they go to formulate? you might say that for a policy where they really don't know what's going to happen in the united states in november, i mean, this really is sort of a catch them on the picture. this isn't, it's as well. yeah. it is. i suppose it leads to some on certainly,

but if you actually look at the policies, what's remark will be used in foreign policy. the amount of continuity between trump invite and, and in many ways apartments more trump like then trump. so, you know, when biden was out of government, c, d cried the trump chair, ups on chinese goods. but then he just, you know, a few months ago in post similar tariff, citing exactly the same logic is trump. similarly, trump, you know, wanted to withdraw from afghanistan was talked out of it by his, uh, uh, security advisors who said, what's going to happen is pretty much what we saw happen, biden seem roll them and did it. so i, i think you know, it, that the personalities are interesting and certainly, you know, the personal, they've told trump, i mean, my god, there's no shortage of caricature there. but when you look at the policy, there's actually, um, a lot more continuity than people suspect. then i think that the um, issues of the issue pacific, where we have nervous allies who perceive

a threat that's, that's so pretty much your bi lateral concern. okay. bind part of that. rather indeed that suddenly we will have to leave it. we wanted to hit all the bases, i think we have certainly given food for thought 2 of us across the world in terms of the shangri la dollar controller be looking at to find out what is being said, the tool of all guess on the multi, somebody pooley and david ross, thank you so much for joining me here on this edition of inside story. and thank you as well for watching. you can see the program again any time and by visiting our website that i would just say a dot com. the further discussion go to our facebook page, that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha, inside store. you can also join the conversational max on the handle leverage as a great inside story from me. so robin on the whole inside story, it seems like it's pretty much the news follows us by the in full strokes in the battle prize fight is charge out from the hidden positions.

for the moment, however, their enemy is imagined and their rifles on real venue recruits to the people's defense rules put through the paces in the baking heats. these are skills which will keep them alive. and before they can break for food, the pledge of allegiance. since the new conscription laws came into the force of thousands of young men and women, come down into the jungles to join the pro democracy forces and raw. the fight against the military tend to join the ranks based forces, constriction makes resistance, force stronger. now what accepts that road? so youth, so now joining the people's defense forms instead of being conscripted by the military. these volunteers, tang and sweat, then hardship to that belief in a democratic future. i believe for which they say they're prepared to lay down their lives. is real hor on gossip be coming forever across the united states?

why are the student protests for palestine being met with military style track down wide is by to insist on 0 consequences for israel in its war on gaza. the quizzical look of us politics, the bottom line, the, [000:00:00;00] the, the money in sight. this is the news i live from doha, coming up in the next 60 minutes off to 8 months of conflict. the united states announces a new space, 5 proposals, and israel's will. and gaza roadmap and during cease fire. release of all hosted injured and alert and we'll have