these we follow the story of the british age workers as he flees from it live with his family after being arrested by a powerful village shop. one of the toughest times when they tortured me. state list in syria on now to 0. sean, by the west most coast guardians, east president vladimir putin, was in no sweat and vietnam this week. strengthening old alliances as a rule in ukraine, drags on both sides down to game was the us thing. this is inside story. the other the and welcome to the program. i'm nora. kyle ross's president, died of may appear to him, has wraps up the 2 nation asia tool on a high. it was the 1st time in 24 years. he had set foot in north korea and he left

feeling young with a new defense packs to show for it is a 2 day visit to vietnam, also yielded several new trade agreements with the manufacturing hub, which is latest state visit seemed to be an attempt to boast of suppose an increasing isolation of his war and ukraine. but what do these countries stand to gain from the place of ties with most go? and how is washington reacting to it all before we get to a panel of gas to get some on says the support from michael apple. korea gave one of his closest allies. a heroes was letting me and food and was treated to all the pomp and pageantry pyongyang could its been 24 years since his last visit. strong good ties between north korea, which is almost entirely isolated and russia increasingly. so since it invaded ukraine, meaning the to lead is all committed to a lot more share. a new defense package includes

a close that see one come to the a to the other in the events of an attack. and crucially with this is you actually get to 0 to use richard rusher does not roll out the development of military technical cooperation with north korea in accordance with the documents signed today. it was this comment that caused concern in the us to senate. it's unveiling a boat that if passed this picture says it all would see russia declared a state sponsor of terrorism. i don't even need to go into the classified briefings that we've received to tell you how frightening. so the idea is that russia would be lending its nuclear expertise to north korea. next, stop for putting was vietnam, a country he last visited in 2017. the 2 nations have struck nearly a dozen deals,

increasing cooperation in industries from nuclear energy to education. vietnam's trade with rochester, 3500000000 dollars 2 years ago. a fraction of the $120.00 plus 1000000000 it does with the us annually. the one analyst says it's so cold. bamboo diplomacy, which is strong yet, flexible shows. washington, the world is no longer uni poa. countries are going to have multiple relationships . they're not going to be only on the us side or only on the russian side. and that requires a shift, an adjustment in the way in which the united states deals with many of these allies . and many of these partners who general tends to moscow having strength and old ties and bowls to trade relations important steps. and his efforts in russia's growing international isolation, mikes level l, g 0 for inside store the

let's bring in all guests now and from so we're going to buy andre line calls a professor. it could mean university and director of ink can use that as an online use. tools focused on north korea. benjamin young is in richmond, virginia. he's an assistant professor of the but virginia commonwealth university of the over the guns gorillas. i'm the great lead north korea and the fed, well, and, and camera is call out say, a professor amerisys of the university of new south wales camera and a full. i'm a senior staff member of the asia pacific sense of security studies up the us pacific combined of i welcome to all of you, andre. this person's 1st visit to north korea in 20 full years. why is he making it now? because he wanted to exist aspirations the united states. is there a few diesels, but that makes you smash sixty's something like you for the americans to

active and to persistent the supporting ukraine rush reveal it revenge by supporting some countries. americans strongly dislike and countries as each of the sincerity danger. this was an american interest and definitely no study of gums feel deceased. so it was just a sort of defiant and see if you like and also able to show that traffic is not exactly did that well, this is going to uh, find some pretty dangerous elyse is it was a major message. it says also way, depression. ok, so the cells good idea to wait shows it so it was getty is view not so you and you shall to ukraine because cells getting is on those of holes. elijah spread yourself, munitions, and it's vital for the russian military efforts to book you. great. and for them getting access to the social security of trust. okay, um,

but let's bring here with at this point because is that the message that the us heard from the pretends visits to appear on young in the us government is extremely concerned about this rejuvenation of russian ties with north korea in many respects. this is revitalization of the 1961 treaty between the soviet union and north korea, which assured both sides both sides that they would come to each other's defense. in the case of the armed aggression, there is quite a bit of ambiguity. and this re new defense pat between russia and north korea. and i think that in general, the us is quite limited when it comes to getting in the way of this relationship due to the geo political environment that the us has now situated to call us bring to you. and because you are focused on vietnam, this is not

a part of the states, but it was in the same trips that putin made to north korea. was it happy to be lovington with such a prime nation? no. in fact, we now know from retired diplomats, who are well informed that noise, that the yes i tried to to the length of 2. and i think when we look at the joint statement, we can say, well, they have the they had to grin and bear a foot and was going to go to north korea. and that would have repercussions for vietnam, but the craft of joint statement, but tried to distance yourself from the bellicose rhetoric that came out of the young on what impact did it have on put in standing though, if it, if the whole trip was designed to show the west, that putin is not isolated, to what extent did the high noise visit supports his legitimacy to one you have to understand historically the soviet union recognize yet knob and 1950. so it's

a longstanding relationship. they have a little hiccups after the soviet union collapse, but in 2012, russian federation became a comprehensive, strategic partner, the highest level of jeff tom's foreign policy hierarchy. along with china and india, there are tens of thousands of you have to be subsided and receive education in that country. the, the whole military complex in vietnam is based on russian weapon read technology and equipment. and without it, it wouldn't be a modern force on that scalar class. oven range guided missile forgets. the population has a great deal of affection because the soviet union helped vietnam air defenses during the american war, as they call it. so they have a completely different perception of, of russia than we in the west. okay, andre, that's a look at this mutual defense, tracy that was signed between showing yang and russia. it's

a commitment to come to wait until there's a in the event of attack. but to witness a few details in it, to what extent does it involve, perhaps military assistance in the event of an attack? it's explicit is admitted to the, to the system is likely to be involved. and what does that mean? any city viable? he'd say the level of the clothes which existed in the 3 g signed in 1961 and a voice removed from the 3 d e in 1996 and now pulled back a so it's a don't as inspiration which existed during the cold war. and so, does that mean the andre, that's north korea is providing russia with weapons as many report save as it is. but of course it's and russia itself deny to i say it's a very useful doubt. it does provide these weapons,

but it's cuz the best thing to do is to treat it because forms and those get in point of view, it's a normal can there for like a tv. yes, it's a band by the un security council, a dissolution. but most katie, a 2nd, right? so tons is a load going to respect and full not, and full of this is andrew from a. so it's a kind of traditional cache you, you sent you both in this case you had mentioned dice is i to do the shells and you get to your cache. so it's sort of like related to $83.00 g. so from most goody, it's a kind of simple patricia, the doing, the healing it the russian nuclear umbrella because they have their own new cam. berella is pushing himself recently said adam goose gives it to a tech so scared of you because not impossible in the long kind of in zillow moran of, well, uh, i doing seems that rush of you necessarily except for them. because there are many

ways to get around, especially if it was some conflict this that did you and that you know that already . okay. more kind of symbolism and way. depression, americans? yeah. okay. that central figure, benjamin if, if i'm feeling young, he's not looking to most go for a support militarily, especially when it comes to a new to on brothers. as andre mentioned, how am i to be seeking all the expertise and technologies from russia, for example? is it likely to be getting nuclear technology until the technological expertise from bhaskar? quite a few of the reports that have come out on the public domain indicate that russia, that in russia has sense of food aid. and there is also some doubts amongst experts, whether nor russia has sent technical experts to how north korea with their space technology program, which has dual use capability for its military as well. uh and if you would

actually also actually read this treaty that was just sign between russia and the dpr. k. it's not just about the defense. there's also quite a bit of provisions within it. i'll call truck strange about sending russian students to the, the peer k for language and vice versa, sending north korean students to rush up for language training. this is really a deep social and cultural and political and military agreement between the 2. this has been a deepening of ties and in many respects this is also a more career trying to reduce is near total, political and economic dependence on being north korea spits tend to something 80 to 9 percent of its external trade with china. that is huge and north korea has all tied in, it's all, i'm being self reliance, self sufficient, and to being so dependent on one country is not something that the officials and

the policy makers in the north creating leadership want to do. and so in many respects, the more ukraine has opened up a new pathway for north korea to return it to this more non unwind diplomacy, where it is firmly on its own pathway. it's not the chinese top of state or chinese lackey, that it really does have agency and autonomy to how it conducts as foreign policy. and that way it can maintain equity distance between moscow and beijing called to what extent is that also to the full vietnam? and let me look good. china's reaction. so this trip by purse into these 2 asian nations is based on concerns. but most ago is, is getting in bold has tried to go on its patch. well, jet nonsense. the late eighty's has a policy diversified and multilateral lising. it's x journal relations. i've

mentioned before that has a 3 tier of hierarchy in china. and russia and india were the 1st of the comprehensive strategic pop partners in the us, japan, australia, and south korea for added in the last 2 years. there is an intermediate strategic part partner level as a comprehensive at the bottom. that's 30 countries. so if we see it as a galaxy, vietnam sees itself in the center, it doesn't want to be pushed into anyone's orbit. um and the set, russia is extraordinarily important because it's a member of the un security council. it's a powerful military state. the supports you have to meet military as a counterweight to china and get down, but at the same time, well, this is the only country in the world within one year is receive cmt doesn't live and, and that, that miracle. yeah, this is the famous bottom thing, just diplomacy of us. so we had about in michael's report to the findings where the old beholden to. none, but how long can it keep that out before it starts up setting its biggest trading

partners, which isn't russia, it's the us and the you as well as the united states, the assistant secretary of daniel clinton becker just showed up in a honda all right, but just prior on the 13th of june, before fulton came, the new president of vietnam, the former minister of public security met mark nap or the american of bass or, and said, we want to, we're encouraging defense and security cooperation with you. a huge american i. t delegation was there, the comprehensive strategic partnership with the us is all about innovation, science, technology, computer chips, electric vehicles, and then working on climate change, green energy, and the resources, the vietnam house. the us motivations really to get china and help get them on the, on the south china sea. but uh, with everybody that aside, yet down has a policy of $4.00. now military alliance has no form basis, no getting up from the 3rd country and no 1st use of force. to what extent benjamin

does us have to pivot, since it's ideas about the world or the next steps that it is not simply a black and white situation where the world is idle countries. why the, for it or against it on the any sense, given circumstances that it is in these multi polar in the us. it is finding itself right now are in a difficult geopolitical situation with a strengthening of this, almost some call to access between tear on tongue young beijing and moscow. and rochester, warren ukraine, has really enhanced this access in a way. and so the us is in a difficult situation, and in many respects, vietnam stands got the cornerstone of trying to wean strategic partners off of dependence. economic dependents on china and vietnam also spans as

a really important economic partner both for the us when it comes to near shoring and reducing our supply networks into china. but also vietnam is important for defense and security purposes with the situation to solve china seats. so the us, uh, you know, foreign policy has never been a big deal in domestic politics. but obviously there's 2 major prices happening in the world right now. russians will warn you, crane and the israel palestine conflict. and this is definitely waiting on the minds of the vine and is ministration coming into november with the election. and a trump has definitely been a different kind of us present when it comes to foreign policy. she had in 2017 fire, infuriated comes on on. and then the following year, she met kim's on a 2 separate occasions. and so one would have to believe that the, if he doesn't win in november, that there would be a very uh, unique

u. s. foreign policy going forward in regards to russia and north korea. and it has some interesting points, isn't it? and to what extent does the need to be a new approach tools, especially north korea. the us is, was that, that it go be but knowledge for the large number of years. now the sanctions are clearly not working. they need a ton for example, to the 6 policy talks of over a decade ago. yes, it was more than well over 10 years ago, but as a question is actually on the trump american sprite to negotiate some kind of agreement of the rollover need, though not from who it was that he will be able to vitiate no scary us to set and does a new play of weapons, which is clearly not going to happen. and it's very difficult for them. medical decision makers, studio allies, is that no study is going to remain

a nuclear powerful is if i see of, of the future. and nothing could be done about as even as the decision to make you guys understand that it's next to impossible, to explain it to that congress to the media, to the common fabric matter a lot in the america, which is a democracy. so america's americans decision make us a very careful they don't go into the government. i smell scary, isn't nuclear power and stop talking about nuclear arms control, which is basically that would be a video, rational decision about they cannot do anything about its nuclear program. and they things that kind of, we can see, once again, this is the most grated, that sanctions that russia is not very disappointed. not going to on a sand shows that he, you lation sense on, but frankly, even resolve these russian hutto sanctions. we are not going to walk because we

have seen it worst case scenario. essentially it's gonna kill some poor pharmacy and any more prizes, sometimes because they undermine the economy apps. but the, so very need, if any impact on a nuclear program under, when the person was in the north gray rails, against the heads of many and the imperialism of the west. i mean, that's quite apt language when you're in showing. yeah, it was the many playing to his origins, which you think he really is seeking a new world order. and then the time he creates a new world order at this stage, or maybe if he can see c, c, this is kim self as it goes on. who is, you know, opening and you are in civil case that he quite probably definitely a new earrings are from see city for sure. and he wants to position himself and uh, were russia led by him as a kind of the leader of what is usually called now is the global sales forces to

beach. i'm not happy about investment in nation. it's a very different ideas, very different agents, but they are united by they does like all of that kind of old system and brush. and we would like to position itself as, you know, kind of lead all of this movement, the voice and everything related sexes. village sexy but i'm also sure, because most of this companies don't see russia as a part of the global cells, but it's even the what we can wants and such reps that it works very well in town. yeah. even so it will basically those good indeed assembled about changing symbol is a quite indifferent to what is happening in the world. they just want to keep their country under their control and to make it powerful. and if possible, prospectors call the same person visiting saudi arabia the u a last year because they have a relations with ron other countries as well. do you think he has gathered enough

international support to defy west and sanctions? i'm for long the will on ukraine. no, i don't think he can accomplish that. there's too many countries that are opposed by the sanctions are never gonna work. a 100 percent. there's ways of evaluating them. and with the a bomb, they talked about rubles, dom, the victim these currency exchanges to get out of the swift system that has the sanction rush out for, for currency transfer because of but just now i'm almost castigated by the us for receiving button because they were receiving a person under the international criminal courts of warrants as well, for example. but those are limited group. if we look at those who have saying that the general assembly is it. so, you know, just under a quarter of, of nations are trying not to, that doesn't mean they're citing with russia, but they don't want to get involved in the polarization that's occurring. if we look, the brakes are slowly being expanded with this membership and get them sent to

a high level official of and they're looking at membership along with other countries. and there's a group in africa and all obviously in the middle east. so i was just trying as best to break out of them, but all the analysis that i'm reading about the economic sanctions or they're hurting, but they're never there. they're not going to. it's not like a wrestling match, we're fine. maybe a thought of russia is going to say uncle wouldn't give up. right. okay, benjamin, is there a nice thing that the west can do about these trying, putting alliances? well, one of the tactics that us senators have put forth is putting russia honestly, sponsor terrorism less. that's important largely for symbolic purposes, but also it has an economic implications as well. so the state sponsors of terrorism last in the us now currently has 4 countries, syria, iran worth print to bar of those 4 countries. keep in my opinion,

you really should not be on the list. but north korea, in my opinion, really should be on the less and russia should as well. this would send a message that if you strengthen this access and you coordinate at economic and military relations with iran and north korea, which are both threats, the international liberal order, then you will get placed on this list. and this has ramifications for a ride. the russian economy, which is already under heavy sanctions, but this would basically deny any sort of interaction with us financial institutions more over it would send a message to other regimes in the broader deal, little the landscape, strengthening and trying to be part of this access with your on russia, in north korea will make you an enterprise. it will make you into a so called rober gene. and in our very globalized,

interconnected economic world. you do not want to be placed on those list because it has severe economic implications for your tourism industry, for your weapons, industry, and for your broader economic future. andre, what are your thoughts on that? do you agree that russia should be placed on the state sponsors of terrorism list a wrinkling op? and i believe that there is something strange we suppose is seduced because, well, sometimes you can find countries of beach have not done anything. this terrorism for many a slight and australia. it's a. busy unpleasant, very brutalization, highly depressive. ohio keeps is population under control. beach fisk property. nobody else will bite the very if you bought it's a loss. engagement is february, 6th tbd to place for 2 years ago. did for me the 8 and leave me like and they just

nothing seems that there are many countries to be sure and what was this activity, but because they have good relations was invited, stays them on the bottom of that list. so for me, it sounds like a kind of using some bold sounding votes to many people, wait to basically put nice labels just to describe guns needs to be trick, have bad relations is united states. and for me, i have always been skeptically about the least, including that presence of most guardians. this is once again, i have no illusions about no scary it, it's a contact with a few people vote warranty like, duties. nonetheless, nonetheless, it's not a thought of terrorism. and last actions which can be described as territories new, or it is some of those getting and then waldman said bent, well, it was nearly cold for century table. okay. and that way i'm gonna leave it today, but he, thanks indeed for. well, i'll guess for joining us andre lancaster,

benjamin young, and call fan and thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website that's out. is there a dot com for further discussion too? good. well facebook page that's facebook dot com forward slash ha inside story. it wasn't during the conversation on x or homeless at a inside story from me laura kyle and the whole team had bye for now the a pod. his aim interviews is israel and obstacles piece. i think that the new thing, the f one of these governments with these says 5 digit, you say getting russell, a thought provoking odd since the e you made weapons are being used in gaza, no doubt. it should be used in an offensive way. that's our facing realities you're running. mean what does he bring to the table? hard from being presidential,

could we go to some we cannot take the fact that he was signing up, present as not that important affected he had the story on talk to. how does era the what does a i really mean for the future of humanity. what sort of future society do we want? it creates all of this technology roommates. do we still have power of choice? a g i 's beach actually autonomy and operating and doing the best as the apple kind of technician. oh, is it already too late? so if corporations, there's more power and light in the bill in an entire country,

the future is going to be good for the eyes would be nice if to before she needs, as well as human on al jazeera. for my life is the senegalese fisherman to elected m p in the madrid assembly fighting racism into thing. giving voice to those he left behind a michael and turned politician reveals how european over fishing an applicant forces has become a driving force. but a regular migration take your 3 buses, be a witness documentary on the i'll just say around or israel's war on gossip be coming forever across the united states. why are the student protests for palestine being met with military style track down? why despite insist on 0 consequences for israel in its war on gaza, the quizzical look of us politics, the bottom line, the,

[000:00:00;00] the color there on the sounds you're paying this isn't use our line from the coming up in the next 16. deadly day in gaza at least 55 tell us things are killed by is there any attacks across the street the up health fight to provide and god so we look at one man struggled to find fruit for his family and it was the people of the world cannot afford 11 on the to become not the gods wanting from the new and the chief is phase,