to the thoughts we knew all results and big results like this, there are always successes. success has been a deplorable but that of justifiable because this is a struggle for independence. a struggle for freedom. we criminalize, we say these people who are known, who are fathers and mothers, we say the criminals and state of them present a name and you kind of done you that being deported. 17000 kilometers away. this is outrageous. it's a way of criminalizing the connect people, and the representatives itself is all vietnam is and during its worst trial, to nearly a decade, which could increase coffee prices around the world. it's the world's 2nd largest coffee producing country. the lack of rain is hot output and reduce the quality of beans. farmers say the erotic climate is making it harder to predict what the hobbies will look like. and the the drought dried up this whole area and the surrounding areas. and the water shortage is so severe that compared to last year, the harvest of coffee cherries is very low. we lost

a lot of the output. it's very small, very low. this is not americans thing. i summarize a taylor swift has performed a 3rd sold out, showed wembley stadium on sunday. she'll never find another likely london is hosting more swift performances and any other city in the world going really 700000 feet in 3 days before the village this week says the biggest as concepts reduce the cities economy by around $318000000.00 and she's returning for another 5 sold out shows in august. but david hurley, he's a professor at northeastern university. he says the air was to is already the highest grossing in history. a taylor's economic impact this part of a much larger room packet. it may be transitory and that it won't be a long last thing, but it's absolutely a rio and you have 700000 people swimming into uh, uh, to a market. uh they have to stay some place at the same place as a ticket prices as a combinations and travel. and it is very, very real. well,

i think that tailor is really singular, it's a matter of supply and demand. i think there's really only one taylor swift. i'm. she's a bigger central team on the planet. and i think right now, especially after the parent, how many people are really thursday for a live communal experience is also very, very talented. she's a great songwriter and she writes songs that actually drive people to tiers. and that's an incredible phenomenon and people are willing to pay real money for that emotional experience. all right, well that's it for me, diamond jordan, for now. you kind of course find much more information on our website out 0 dot com use continue to see or not 0 off the bottom line. that's it spectrum that's, i'm watching the mm hm. i think the global system is built. the

system does not solve itself. we're going to have to find new ways we do not need fossil fuel, the 2nd exp to knowing what to do, the saving consciously to the right things that will help us solve this problem. not by knowing everybody else, and that's enough to one. so there's a false expectation, particularly among rich people that they can survive every day. even rich people are going to be affected by the impacts of climate change and they're going to have to satisfy each behavior is what got us into this problem. and surface behavior will not get us out of this problem. hi, i'm steve clements and i have a question. what if there is no day after in israel's war on gaza? let's get to the bottom line. the last in the health

scape israel has created in gas, it is one simple fact. even if there is a ceasefire, there is no way for life to go back to normal for the 2000000 plus palestinians who live there. the world bank now estimates that it would take almost $20000000000.00 to rebuild guys that to what it was before the war, which was wilfully insufficient anyway. but of course, it's not about the money. we're talking about an entire population with no access to housing, jobs, health, education. we're getting basic food, water and electricity depends on the ups and downs of is really government coalition partners. and forget about personal safety and security. we're talking about a place that's been forced to become totally dependent on outside aid for decades become. so is this the new normal regatta? today we're talking with political science as nathan brown, professor of international affairs at george washington university, and currently a fellow at the hamburg instead to it for advanced study in germany. doctor brown, thank you so much for joining us. let me just start out with questions about the

day after in gaza and you written pretty compellingly. then maybe the plan all along was not to think about the day after and gaza, at least for me is really perspective. tell us what you meant for. sure. i mean, i think from the beginning israel has been fighting in different war than the americans have thought they have been fighting. the israelis went in with some very, very ambitious, but pretty vague. war aims about destroying how bass is military and governing capability. but if it's clear what that meant, what something a little bit more ambitious and ongoing than what the americans had in mind. the americans would look at this and say, how we've seen this before. this is what we did, new rock, this is what we didn't have cameras that when we went in with a plan for fighting and winning the war, but not thinking about what happened afterwards. and that assumed that there was going to be a clear into the military phase and then a beginning of a civilian reconstruction phase. and i don't think these really ever thought that

way. they thought in terms of, you know, what, you, they, that there's a term forever which is used in a negative way, but these really stopped. they weren't for her war that this was not something that would ever be finally resolved. they weren't looking, say, as united states did in iraq to say, let's fix this and go home and it's, we're here for life. this is just the hand we've been dealt with. and this population in gaza is unmanageable. and the idea that we could go in and permanently fixed it and then leave and forget about it is just not in the car so. so this is going to be an ongoing military conflict that will have different phases and different degrees. but it's not as if it's going to have a clear and what you're saying is so important and it actually didn't hit me until i read your article. most of us have been talking about a linear process, a linear, you know, october 7th happen is real, responded. we thought that would be an action moment and then an after action moment and then the world would come back and rebuild with the good guys in, in,

in palestine essentially, you know, and kind of resolve all of this that linear already has been overwhelmingly part of the, i would call the international discourse on this, would you say something very different? and if you writes that he is released from the very beginning, knew that this would include massive dislocation of gases population for an undefined period, significant destruction of infrastructure. and the elimination of those you in bodies that is providing education, other social services, regardless, all of the things that you laid out that said israel was very aware it would be doing, are being defined potentially as ingredients of genocide increasing as a war crimes readings of ethnic cleansing by the rest of the world. am i getting this right? oh, absolutely. i mean, i think that it was clear from the beginning that what is real had in mind with a sort of uh with with was this a steel of military action that would have horrified people if they knew what was

involved on october 8th. and in fact, you even had some early statements from is really saying we have essentially an international blank check for now. that's going to run out at some point when people realize the scale of what is going on. so do you think that is real? has any n game in mind now? or do you believe that this blur of what looks like atrocities from others is the end game will, is really, is a complicated place and different as railways have different games in mind. i think for the far right, which is influential. now i'm talking about people like got been beards. motors, these are people who are in the cabinet up under really the extreme right. the end of the game is a wednesday between the jordan river and the mediterranean sea. which is a jewish state, and any palestinian who wants to live there as a guest is welcome to do so. but they'll never be in full citizen. that's an extreme position,

but they make clear wouldn't be so bad of palestinians and guy that just took up and left and and, and as i say, that's an extreme position, but it, they are part of the government. i think for somebody like netanyahu, you'll use the expression, we're going to get rid of the bad guys and put in the good guys. there are no good guys for him. and so it's not as if he's talking about mass expulsions like that. like like it's hard, right. blinky is but he's thinking we're just, we've got to be there. and again, they were fairly clear statements from the beginning that there will have to be, you know, is real, the way they would put in these riddles responsible for his own security and gaza. meaning we're there forever. that doesn't necessarily mean whole re occupation like the west bank, but it means we go and we do whatever we will perhaps be we have to do whenever we feel we have to do it. and that's essentially an ongoing and, and in depth. and it is really military presence and gaza. we've seen recently an interesting kind of tension inside israel. and i'd be loved your comments in that

one, you know, benny and stepping out of the work cabinet. we've actually seen these really military pride to enact and say they're going to enact humanitarian pauses so that aiden relief can get in to people. i need to remind audience those people. many of these people are innocent. people and innocent victims caught in the vice here in this moment. ok, and you see is really cabinet officials coming out in the slamming the is really military for humanitarian gestures. and this is all happening in broad daylight, broad visibility overtly. and i'm just sitting years. why, oh, i mean, who needs a court, international court of justice when it's actually happening? but your thoughts on some of the internal is really tensions that seem to be bubbling to the surface as well. you know, the yeah, there's just a british idea of collective cabinet responsibility, which has never really sunk in very deeply among israeli cabinets. it's there they, they, they go after each other and public criticizing each other in public to criticize

a decision that the cabinet voted on the day before if they, if they vote against the league like crazy and so, and as a result, we have a pretty good idea of the arguments that are going on, i, i mean we have for the board to the extreme, right? which says this is a jewish state and a jewish state, only guess a welcome as long as they're peaceful and, and then if they can yahoo, basically what i would say is what a center write down is really terms which basically says there will be no palestinian state will deal with palestinians in terms of local communities and so on, but, but not as a national entity. and they're welcome to run their own schools and pick up their own trash and write drawing parking tickets. but for serious issues, it's going to be the israeli state and control. and then there's also what i would call kind of the, the basic is really security establishment. and they are looking at this probably a little bit closer to the american position. they're not necessarily went into

a 2 state solution. in fact, they're skeptical of it. but they say, look, we've got a working relationship with a palestinian authority. we may not like them the of the authorities in ramallah. but with that security coordination with them, we've got a very close security relationship with united states. we don't want to mess that up. so there tend to be a little bit more, i would say, conscious and was bondsville in the game as, as, as the americans would see them. and that's a real context. and of course there's a left wing in israel that says, palestinians are national community. we've got to come to terms with them as a nation and they are basically marginalized right now. they're there, but they don't pull well, they don't have anybody in the cabinet. they don't have that many voices in his. ringback public life that left weight, which it goes, things that are similar to what the bike and ministration is saying is at this point pretty weak. or do you think that this notion that you just share that maybe uh, just really prime minister netanyahu and others have that there will never be

a palestinian state. that they'll figure out some structure. you wrote about this in your article, they'll subcontract to some palestinians to take care of those daily life needs. i'm just wondering, is that realistic in any sense? how would that work? am i missing something here? or is that is the equation design? never to be solved. i think, and again maybe it's done isn't, is not my equation, but i'll try to present it sympathetically from i think a new really point of view that's, that's a hand they've been, don't know. it's not going to be solved. it can be managed, but it can be solved. so how do you manage it? well, it looks a little bit like what's going on in the west bank right now where you have this week palestinian authority, you have pallets and the security forces coordinate with the with, with these real. and the palestinian authority doesn't like it, the pallets and the security forces don't really like it. base they're, they're, they're, they're really low by considerable portion for the population is you're just sub

contracting for these really occupation. but it's the only way to keep the, the, the little islands a palestinian autonomy alive. so i think that might be the model for them. one which the israelis have security control. again they go where they want to do what they want whenever they want. but they have workable arrangements with local leaders and you know, as the pallets and the authority, the westbank collapses. that might mean, look, a war lord, it might mean a local, locally prominent individual who says, you know, i'll be the interlocutor between people in this village and, and, and, and these really occupation. and maybe you could do something like that and gaza, which as some of the population is, is, is, is private lives in a lot of tribes. so we go to the private leaders. sometimes there'll be like refugee camps that have their own kind of spontaneously. ringback organize committees will deal with the cam commit a will deal with whoever is in charge where he's got guns and whoever can enforce order. and we'll just make deals with, with,

with them to basically give them privileges. give them benefits that they can funnel to bite off part of their population. i mean, what you're really talking about is a kind of manage the chaos in this you talk about word lords, i mean, this 1st conversation i've had along this line, but you know, it's resonating with me. we had michael hannah, the international crisis group on recently. and michael basically said that the united states and the rest of the world continues to talk about the 2 state solution and an aspiration for that out of desperation. because it can't figure out how to formulate any other potential governance dimension there. and it doesn't want to talk about a somalia on the border of, of israel. what are your personal thoughts on? and i think that's exactly right. if i can give an analogy which might sound a little bit too light hearted american policy. and i would say kind of the general thrust of international diplomacy is a little bit like a cartoon character that is run off

a cliff and is afraid to live below for fear that it will fall. that's the 2 state solution. it is one that in public bind in this way, she keeps talking about european leaders keep talking about it in public, in private. everybody knows that that to date solution is not in the car, is it not in the cards in terms of the real debate? is, is it dead forever or is it just in long term hibernation for decades? but, but the idea that you've been a viable tuesday diplomacy right now, i don't think any, anybody really believes. but once you accept that, then what are you for, from the implications of that? are i think just to distasteful them from a policy point of view. but the trump administration, when it was an office, it actually basically came close to embrace it. say hey, that's great. we'll let palestinians have little islands. they can call it a state if they want, but it's not is going to be under is really control. but especially. ready for the

democrats, it's really, really tough to say that because the next step would be, well, wait a 2nd. if tuesday's our company, then what is this thing? this is beginning to look a little bit like a par tight. i think that a word is one that divides the democratic party, a device generations within the democratic party divides the left from kind. ringback more disinterest wings drive, it divides the more establishment from from, from, from, you know, single sanders wings. and so, and so it is in policy terms and in domestic political terms, just very, very uncomfortable territory to think about what you are right now in germany and your, you know, home base is george washington university down the street were from where i'm filming this, and and on college campuses throughout this country, but also with george washington university. you had in camp minutes, you had young people basically protesting america and the binding ministrations approach to v as real gaza crisis. and also, i should say counter protests

a to them, it's been very diverse if i'm interested in what this is doing to united states and in the middle of a presidential contest. and one of the, you know, possibilities in november because we don't have a stack deck here in the united states, is that president trump could come back, could be president bite. and this could be a contributing factor, a to that. and is that something you think is really pi mister netanyahu is, is, is hoping for counting on trying to design. and if i were to happen, i just be interested in your reflections as an american. what is that going to do? given the divide, we already see in the united states. oh, gotcha. yeah. so you talked about managed chaos and now you describe the almost unmanaged chaos. um, so you've let me turn 1st, you know, to, to, to the campus protest. yes. a very divisive in the united states. you know, when i, when i, when i talk to the sort of students that i have a g, w, this is seen not through the lens at people of, of my generation. and i'll let you know i'm old enough to remember the 1967 what?

it's not like people from my generation side, but it's really seen almost as a social justice causes global social justice caught, you know, a kid is sort of the cousin of the black lives matter, a movement at an international level. and that's just not how many people in the older generation see that. so it's a split democratic party is a fascinating split within the american jewish community between the older and establish generations for which is realist, absolutely. central to american jewish identity. and the younger generation is as, wait, we didn't sign up for this. what are they doing? and i get in these, these are gross generalizations. are certainly plenty of young, jewish or very supportive of israel but, but, but this is what you see, what you see playing out of and then germany, i would say you're where, where i am right now you've got similar kinds of debates. also late on top of that is a feeling among german politicians that, that for historical reasons which everybody understand. they don't want any

daylight between them and israel, they don't want to be seen as a band guard of, of, of, of criticism for israel. and one other thing that i do want to mention is college campus demonstrations that have one other interesting effect which didn't get a lot of publicity in the united states. and that is they were, they got tremendous international attention. you know, i have is really friends who say, i don't want to go to united states right now. and if i did, i certainly wouldn't feel safe on the campus. and, and they have this image that, that american campuses are just the zones of arguing, indistinguishable from barriers university and the, and the palestinian university on the west bank for palestinians, though they suddenly see, wait a 2nd. the one was ignoring us and all of a sudden, you know, in wash dc, los angeles, people are demonstrating force. it's really, really hardening for colors that the different emotional reactions that depending on, on where you, where you come in. but, but again,

american college campuses are the center of attention in large parts of the world. now you asked about trunk and i don't know, and i'm not sure he knows what, what he would do. some of the people who are very much affiliated with sort of that, that trump plan or that the deal of a century, jared cushion or might not go back into a i, i prompted ministration. david friedman who was in bassett, or to israel, was somebody who was really overly embracing the settler movement and openly advocating for annexation. it's really annexation of the westbank, really a one state solution with that one state being israel has made clear he wants to go back in, but it's not clear to me what so or is it a trumpet? ministration is a little bit of the wild card. there is no hiding with that. you're planning people in on the as wally. right, to say buying back this on october 7th, but since and there's been some problems we wouldn't mind trying our luck with a trumpet administration. but again, nobody knows what truck. ready actually do in the office. you were as i understand

it, president of the middle east studies association and and for audience movie studies association is really a collection of academics, intellectuals that are thinking about moving studies often organized, i assume to the american political science. so seizure, other groups like that is the quality of discourse. what it used to be is the honesty, the ability to communicate, to be open and honest. cuz i, we have been talking a little bit about, you know, the challenges of censorship over some of these discussions that it's also playing out in american society and around the world. i love your reflections on whether we still have health in something like in the middle east studies association as well . my short answer would be um, debates are pretty trailing public all over the world. and within the middle east studies association, i would say, you know, the real debate is not is israel guilty of war crimes, but it is real guilty of genocidal waterfront or just other kinds of waterfront is

the the bulk of the membership of the middle east studies association is it would be harshly critical. i mean i shouldn't say that. busy but there are plenty of people who has a more interest city and in medieval poetry or modern numerous mastic rather than israel and palestine by those who are. and i would say that would be extremely critical. and that of, of, of is related to the question is just on what terms. but there's another point that i think gibson missed. i mean, i sometimes joke down glen, i'm in germany for the year because i don't speak german and therefore i can't understand what people say to each other. and in a, at a public level that screw that just just the, the, the rigidity and the shrillness of the discourse. really is it something that is disheartening to somebody who has been following this for a while in private? i think things are very different when i go into classroom given, i guess what's your budget and, and as an a golf car,

actually i talked to some of the palestinian demonstrators here in, in the city of homburg, a couple weeks ago people understand that this is a political moment, it is a horrible moment, and there are forces at work which they don't completely understand. so when you get in private and when people are so posing in order to be pro with this or pro, that i think you find an awful lot more new words. and i'm actually some as gratified by the kinds of discussions you could have in private. so i'm interested in this tension between how we talk about the day after and rebuilding when the task is so gargantuan of what would be needed versus the destination. uh, that's happened in people's lives. and i'm, i love is, is, are you know, final thought here. your thoughts on how we can navigate that conversation better than we are? oh gosh, well, yeah, so the task again material terms is going to be enormous. but to me the task cannot even be get in till you have the political ground work laid. right. so you have

rounds of devastation, much less severe than the current one. but give guys east avenue international airport. destroyed. that was a port destroyed and a so the idea of rebuilding and the situation in which there is ongoing violence or the possibility that recurring just doesn't make any sense anymore. so for me, it's a question of laying a political ground round work for a true reconstruction that allows people to rebuild their lives. and even then, as you say, you've got a deeply traumatized society in, in gaza, the best majority of gods and have been made homeless and many more than once in the course of the fighting since since since october. and you've got a west bank society that is not subject to that level of violence, but is watching other palestinians and have this happen to them. and they are traumatized you ineffectual as well. there's just a level of despair in palestinian society. there was even before october 7th,

i think it was that that made i'm asked think october's 7th windham domestic support, that level of despair. and now i think is going to be just bottomless. so we're in for a period not simply of, of physical reconstruction, but political reconstruction and even motional and mental health reconstruction. that is a task of deal on the order of magnitude that we haven't seen in this conflict ever before. we'll have to leave it there. george washington university political science as nathan brown. thank you so much for joining us from germany today. thank you. thanks for having me. so what's the bottom line? are we deluding ourselves to think that x number of billions of dollars over x number of years is going to fix and restored gaza? yes, we are. that's just how the international community likes to frame things. every global leader knows you can't replace the schools and the hospitals in the homes and the agriculture of a region that has grown organically for centuries and even millennia. but we don't

know how to talk about 20000 orphans or thousands of amputees or how to restore millions of lives. so we talk about what's comfortable and that's concrete and dollars, rather than mothers and sisters, and dads and brothers who were innocent and now are dead, or are maimed or homeless and where male nourished. look at the recent 8 conference that was held in jordan, 3 and a half $1000000000.00 was pledged over 3 years. that's not a marshall plan. that's rebuild white. feel good promises that actually achieve nothing. with full us support. israel is now created a global bleeding ulcer that's going to challenge superpowers and nations for decades become. and that's the bottom line. the on board china is past fishing. evidence of human rights abuses is widespread trafficking wage the code on the black people starving death on land. it's

a legs we goes a forced to work in c food processing units, obligations. china denied one. 0, one east investigating some china slaves fiction. oh no. just there is no channel that covers world news like we do as a roman correspondence. i am constantly on the goals, covering topics from politics, to conflict, to environmental issues, scalable like nothing. what we want to know is how do these things affect people? we revisit places day even when there are no international headlines. i'll just say we're really invested in that. not the privilege as a journalist ever seen in the gaza strip as is the last continues. there's a deliberate mission of posting and humanity in western media, and it needs to be question, sustains coverage that actively humanize as, as readings and actively humanizes palestinians. this is not the time for doing

this kind of way. tracking those stories examining the journalism and the effect that news coverage can have on democracies everywhere. here at the listening post, these called church solutions that gives us know for a future that we have to find creative solutions, not just turn our backs on the. don't think that has a number, think about it as a person and yourself and that person's shoes. so as you can see for this is my us, my life. in my life, those dishes we want, we want the education, we want to break because the women and my country, they're not sweet to come up to on we are not the night all or 2. we are human beings on this earth to be trees and the holy we are making in their thoughts sense our ancestors whatever has been done before can be done

as long as a human being is doing it. you just have to keep pushing because no one else can see, the vision is keywords you to the at least 19 people are trapped inside of that tree. manufacturing plant that's on file in south korea. the alarm tyran, jordan, this is obviously around live nto ha, also coming multiple attacks across russia. as doug as don region with targets including churches and synagogues, at least 15 security officials account. israel's prime minister says intensified to get a gauze as nearly as evidence if it doesn't mean what is about to end and abused on

too many ages. we hear from the palestinian mind strapped to in his writing with the truth vehicle in new york by the west bank.