the the . ringback the kenya shaken by mass demonstrations against proposed tax hikes, protests that use the president assailants, and about to has election promises. so the government says the finance that is needed to pay off the debt, all the on risk be contained, with an escalation even said, this is inside story, the hello and welcome to the program. i'm elizabeth put on them. it will started with peaceful protests against a finance bill tabled and can use paul them and that includes tax increases to

raise extra funds. the government says it needs to pay off public debt. the protests intensified, crowd spill in the parliament compound, and the military was deployed. security forces use live rounds coming and injuring many of the find the president william root hope the demonstrations treasonous. and promised to take a tough stance on what he called. and i key. we will discuss what options the canyon government has this public and because the 1st is proposed by up to some denford protesters calling on president william route to to resign from inside can use parliament. the storm, the compound and peace pass to controversial, fine and spill that includes tax increases, local media, se m p. 's birth vacuum waited through an underground tunnel. moments later, one of the buildings visibly demonstrations had begun peacefully, organized on social media and led by young people. the phillips do jesus,

no one has let them leave. it doesn't have a way to own. the data in this country is going to be one to us and we're going to be going to lift the lid. that's happened. police responded with tear gas war to cannon, and eliza munitions. the military was deployed and the president described some of the protesters as treason petitioning, and public authorities by a section of law abiding citizens for 30 public opinion was infiltrated and hijacked by a group of organized criminals. the governments, as the finance bill will bring in much needed funds to pay off public debt. currently at 70 percent of gross domestic product. it hopes to raise $2700000000.00 . the critics, a ordinary people, are paying the price for the heavy spending by state officials and the raising

taxes on property. few and small businesses will only worse than the cost of living crisis. as one is sending out, you know, because this time the port type, the 400 people are unemployed and you keep pushing the punitive taxes. no one is posted in here you can much closer this much. the more mass action is planned and protest or say they won't settle for anything less than the bill being scrapped once and for all we're doing this. i'm getting food, i'll just 0 inside story that spring. and i guess it's joining us from nairobi is, has been kind of in j, director of the whole international institute for strategic studies, research and policy think tax based in the canyon capital in johannesburg as weston sheila, who is an international relations scholar, the university of the which, which is friend of the book political pallet and tribalism in kenya. and also in

the canyon capital is, let's see, i know num, why, of the east africa director as human rights watch. very well. welcome to all of you . how soon i'll start with you in nairobi, president william rudo was elected 2 years ago on a promise of helping the poor has he met them down i think is, let's see. let's see. i'm on a process. the problem is, is a good the field, i think part of it is informed by the increasing that cost of living. ringback state of businesses and silence of increasing employment. now some of these factors may not exactly be rude towards making some of these has to do anything about gallery. so we can actually kind of makes asked what are the conditions that are being constrained by the pup? does you know outside one. okay. yes. control. oh eva, i think these increasing competition is somebody's out of increasing comic difficulties. social despondency. i know just to be the in the country, but i pretty only thing to reach him. i don't want to talk about exactly why kenya

is at this point that it's at now beyond, you know, the legs has finance bill west and how much of it is because kenya has to pay back international lenders, china of the international monetary fund. and how much of it is it because of his, of corruption and mismanagement that the people on the street say they shouldn't have to be punished for thank you. so these are the 2 controversial as the t's is the big that's the to the okay, now is that a part of the street is across the country echo tasting that goodness. big piece of ground corruption contains minus the politically leads of impunity and this speak. i said in this state of affairs, the dates we didn't we just presidents such as the for the last 16. 0 yes.

basically. did you nation or the independent leads. have related to the status i side side for positive communication, passionate every time. i never mind, you know, nice or do you know? so canyons have been good by the last bill because of the to the nations. it's going to publish them another good reprise all but and these don't jobs. these guys are going to jump there, finish college, completing the texas. i'm making the basically get nothing out of the evidence. so it is the conditional subjects we just found. expiration the nose view, which is the government, especially the president, insists on pushing down the can cross,

despite against having expressed opposition identities be okay, i'll see. i know what do you make of how the government, the president has handled the protest so far. when he did address the nation, he said that the protests have been hijacked by infield traces and criminals. is there any evidence that you know what he calls criminals, or even people that have interest, other than protesting against the taxes, have in any way taken over the protests will have a significant presence to thank you. let's remember that yesterday's thought is i'll kind of be national from the test that i've been going on since last week. so the same process went down enough to go past it. the protest dot com stays there to continue those practice due yesterday and then tomorrow. and tomorrow was basically the last payment will go all the way to scott house to.

that's the office on the agenda. if you remember left me, the process are very, very peaceful from starts to the end. and yesterday, the product as well, very peaceful until a few things started happening. one of the police started a fine job uh in today i worked as close and then the 2nd thing, i think the government had organized code to purchase based on the people of the support team to finance be defiant. and that means definitely can take, you can do it on monday of the book test tasks to allowed us what supporting to be towards that protest. i know that i think about to 70 stuck because when something happens there, it's always going to be a conflict. and so the twenty's, the police are, will continue fighting to have that something that i'm starting to use. nice. i mean, you still don't get us, we're pissed off. and then the counter practice,

which deliberately meant destruction was about noon. something has happened then mamma, color and defiantly when the head of boss to be despised people reaching out to their mother, cutting the knots to santa itself. it sounds like you are saying pretty much what you're saying is the government is responsible for the violence by shooting on protest, as by organizing counter protests and bypassing a bill. that's so many people are against hassan. who, what do you make of who is out on the streets of it doesn't seem to be from what we can tell a political, a religious, tribal ethnic regional dimension to these protests and protest is how much of a challenge does that pause? that is indeed the case. how much of a challenge is it for the government? these are the common people, protesting or the bread and budget issues. and it's always easy to do

with an ident bible in any way the control structure. now when you're dealing with that group is very spontaneous and extreme to white spray. organize it back without a definable structure to be able to deal with it becomes increasingly difficult. and i think that is why the security sciences being about, well, it costs because you're having for this across more than 30 countries going on so much and you spend the same time. but also it is the kind of process that cuts across ethnic. hopefully it's going to be just fine, and that becomes also very had to be able to do that. now, one thing that has happened is that the process goes up monday to ship the east coast as well as the narrative. now i think government eh, is reacting add to a situation where the, the position right now has to, can be, and you said you're on the bus from the chest is made up mostly of young people.

but most of the non us generation z, you know, at least in pain. and so it is extremely difficult for the government to have to respond to these. now outside of fairly uh, that is messaging that he's going to speak to us compromise at like the commission coming, you know out, you need immediate right now use the visa move towards about sort of visiting the thing that's be the itself. it's going to be increasingly difficult to me and to be able to pacify these protests that especially during that kind of the tensions and the kind of sentiment that raising the extent that extended white breakfast, the country. and that's something else. but absolutely, that's a very interesting point about the compromise west and several of the most contentious taxes including levies on bread, women's menstrual power likes, children's nappies had only been dropped before the bill was passed. so the government did compromise on some things. and yet the and the not only remained but

intensified. so what are the taxes that remain and why people still so angry? i think the people still don't really because they don't trust the government. they been an acquaintance already. the government has really said several of those physicians in the field because they're different, but to the back porch. and then what, gosh, you know, i'm 6 present. don't pull out those provisions to try a lot, pete thinking and i think i said no, they would not be weeks. beautiful on things, i love it. you mentioned that basically the bikes really everything, whether it's either cut, whether it's track, whether it's the people's incomes, basic or the goodness. i say they're trapped to their bodies, be in desert, talk to them to the ball and yet they come sound rising bad. no jobs for young

people find themselves, no even comes for their efforts. so that leaves it's because when the, when key was when this kind of competing company just missed a fix it. but yeah, that's doing the problems and the challenges be different ingredients and it was a very specific in the sponge based on the bottom vistas where i'd be doing specific and they went to listen to goodness, i took notes. so they're wondering how to use that see, ease of responding to the things that you read all i've successfully saw the voice of products, click on products. oh the re visited you, which was about the definitely 3. he was the deputy president for 10 years general and we have some, a fascinating breaking news coming into us that i'm just being told about in my yeah, which is that president william rudo has said he will not sign this bill and to

know upon them and approved it, it has to be signed by the president. i would just hearing with him router saying that he will not sign this bill. let's see, i know how much of a is this a victory full protest is. will they trust this? will it be the end of protests? one of the things i've been saying is that the finance be to is just a pick up us. and the, the reason why they go to where they, because to be a lot so used to be is that people have been on the number of things that they've been seeing in the southern district, which is high in borrowing a lot of them, which people cannot see what is doing at the club and asking in the government, the bottom about to see what they're doing. this was the apartment, but they don't see why their money is good. the 2nd is the cause. why people have mentioned the fees progresses and there's a higher level option. they could be the ports of corruption and money just to be

getting most undefined not to be self funded by that itself. cuz i look at the money to areas that i'm not necessarily, i also be provisions to a to set up people for you to consider adding products. and the balance on is that the people in government, southern to show where to possibly make this money coming from. and i say this is the money that can be done by just using that money to allow them to focus on them . so it's a much, much bigger discussion. if you listen to what can you say, then just if i not do this by not to be part of something just to, to, to be locked. the other similar approaches about the site not to be which dependent folks for the boss, i'm going to get to talk to people, i'm can look into other solutions. we start getting people. some of these have pay slips on. people can also now pay up to 45 percent of the the government, us taxes. absolutely. we have seen a number of new taxes. we have seen an increase in taxes since president rudo came

to power 2 years ago. how soon, what do you make of this news that, you know, william router was saying he's not going to sign this bill? and what to what sienna was saying, you know, talking about the much bigger problems over the decades in colorado, in can you of corruption of mismanagement. couldn't this be the beginning of a government of the government to looking at those much deeper problems? the president's promise not to assign these b o, he's actually just completing a conference of those of offsets to the engage the project so, so you know, my to say from lots of stakeholders kind of a prompt to ensure that the young people i listen to now but it is on a time between ib escalation but also i think, opportunity to have a more comprehensive i think the approach to watch some of the issues of how big the country goes. corruption as well. i'm trying to see all of these,

this about governance. you know how, but they can political east coast. i'm a big city, even the visually economy to what really crow that have contributed or conspire to put they to do. they kind of by environment we see right now to being laid by the young people. oh no, these for person to be affected by the economy of considering that a to some of them are going to school or the out of school, but they happen to jump and they have no hook. and that so they, they just kind of environment to repeat the. ready question, well, how do you see this playing out? i mean, what can, what options does the canyon government has? does it have, if it's not going to pass this bill? what does it have to say to the international monetary fund in china as it gets around the debt? but it does have well, especially in some is getting the developing story. it's, it's the fortunate leaves that you've got to come to these that the last set to be

lost to the gate and media or what $25.00. we don't know. they didn't speak of. yeah. people, well, extrajudicial to show today it used to do. it did not have to come to this because getting outside expressed that is content that goodness to be so that kind of so uh, uh, and things that really students engage in kind of the time. so he's no good, just send to the bill, spend to look for structured data for these young people. it's an important because to me, yet mostly you to miss the present because he appreciates the concise of the kenyan citizen having been assistant for the addition for the level 30. yes . less on housing guarantee on it says formation. agend. he has to be trained to get gun electronic and people so,

but he's not signing. but west of he's not signing the bill. so has he betrayed the canyon people? has he lost the thing is, is he, is he not going to re gain some of that legitimacy? is this not an indication that he has listened to the people i don't really cited you didn't have to come to this these because of the 6. that's the point for the cost, the trends, the destruction of property, but maybe more people and the extra judicial executions. the security, the see progress. but the other nice watch is presidents. the policing go to good in the execution on somebody executions will have guessed later, abductions for young people. so i think going full, i bet you keep money just to you know, run through these 1st time government solutions. he would have really an upgraded task when he comes to the election because of my choice. okay. you know,

so as we speak now, they may though we'll do it, which will probably make solutions. but i don't think there will be keep what for you said election. i don't think you said a well, that is a long way away. and of course they say that a week is a long time in politics. the next election is 3 years away. let's see, i know how bad exactly did things get to know west and this talking about what he's quoting extrajudicial killings. we've heard of journalists being injured. we've heard of a doctor who was helping to protest is dying from a gunshot wound. so just how bad things get, how worried when president william root, so it'd be about how things look not just to kenya, but with the united nations commenting on what's happening and kenya's image. it went from there to quote. so you're getting, it's, it's social completely looks. we have not confirmed a lot of things, but what we're having some of the killings that's happened and that will be on the

front of in, around 5 pm on the other kids at the top end of the kind of in, around 3 pm. the cause of people who, who died, i think around 3 pm to about a 5 pm. nobody knows bucks could be about that. and, but those, those numbers are going to be going from the can use that on the dry at night by dominion studies under the reports of kings in other parts of the country that some haven't confirmed. i think within the contamination of people trying to get to confirm what has to be happened during these products. i think it could also uh, i know that they mention to the products. uh secondly, the deployment of the military. um, like boss yesterday i think it was uh, the 1st time getting themselves seen uh the government employees made busta gave me the best estimate possible of quite a number of the cubans, including of the police office austin. so this will actually be done by it is night

passed and that's happening now. so i'm getting ready. wow. by and immediately from hopkins and the number of people there was documents, i don't 5, it could be tied to it more than 20 people. and then the killings. 10 pm. okay. when on, on the 5 nobody knows the number. ok, certainly very wiring reports that we will no doubt have confirmation of the coming days. how soon? what does president william rudo and the government do now? is there a way for him, for them to please the people out on the streets, you know, 30 percent of whom are living in poverty? who absolutely say they cannot afford an increase in the cost of living. and the international lenses up task is going to take

the start of the communication that communicates they use that waiting list has gone down to some of the issues and to, to come down to the ground day to me. they protest, i think, be something that we can see that the presidency is trying to do the decimal grid and press conference i, you know, speaking that are going to to, that they will be different from the time that i think the country had to use today . that, you know, race, ethnic concerns with regard to the governments willingness to compromise. but number 2, as to a seriously perhaps a be to so be sure the task was to look into the kind of on science of grievances, but as well as come up with the practice types of dealing with issues, i guess corruption and mismanagement over the economy you know, the something that goes way back, it seems stuff. we've been kind of discretion, you know, as well as the general attitude that to the doesn't but additions have what senior citizens, especially they, they jane see generation which they did not, you know,

quality, some don't seem to really understand very much, but fundamentally is going to be about a carl and t v 's, a possibility that they're going to be policies that number one up to in the interests of the country ask one of the citizens, but also the directional about that providing for the economy to be able to provide help and you know, employment as well as doable communities for the young people. then you can go a long way, you know, manual rating, the kinds of challenges they got, maybe specing, but also in starting the kind of they get too much in a government needs to be able to function. because outside on the absence of suspicion that gets messy. it is very, very, had to be able to manage and control the country and we'll finish and west and i know that the government has lost a lot of legitimacy and how it's handled these protests. but can, does it have a fiscal repair pat plan? does it have the external support to manage this crisis kind of gets it together and you'll view where they give you that exercise

political with big countries because you last what we may do the most do the suppose to raise money, expand the painting rich. yeah. but the good, yes, i see, you know, the money. that's because the government has bought it's ended up in people's bookings. no signature, corruption is waiting to run through the government based on a lot of west each. the government's asking us to leave within the limits. but the government officials are leaving much spinning out of my me more like getting some trouble. but at the same time, asking goodness to exercise those standard dimensions, present to maps. know that these are comfortable to the people who can, you know, they are comfortable, good standing minutes is when i come to class today and the what about and i think you most didn't do this most institutions and tell them piece, beginning of the people and not take it, they don't have to find

a way out. you're okay. you was talking about it tests. i don't think we need to address these trust is suppose to think of a man to manage from side to basically to so know the issue, support option or forward. you mean what it is to you show 60, which has to be a good fit to young people. yeah. asking for these things to do for the criminal justice system that is responsible to their needs and they go to the wash and it gives them the job and the concussion, the system that was where they get to what it did you purchase it, haven't got a system that assessment, that is certainly what the people out on the streets have been asking for the warranty. got about one minute left in the program and i would like to hear from, let's see, i know we're given everything that's, that's at stake. what people are asking for this, you know, president router is saying he's not going to sign this bill. are you hopeful for

this moment in kenya for the country and for the, for the people is less. so that's not signing to be these the beginning because one of the problems that i think i've seen the purpose of complaining about is the feeling that they're not being caught. the purpose of suggesting presenting most of the tendons this the default to go to a court. i think people have descended and then what items there was probably cap public participation process. well, but 90 percent of opinions ultimately to get them to be invest, i'll say if you pass this be we some lead can but the bottom and the president, the way the had the past to be the other parts of people being, but i couldn't find them enough to up to a smart that's to me that seems empty. so i say, but being given communities deposit be these issues along the side, the compromising of all the institutions of government such as punishment is being displayed,

okay. dislike all the issues that need to be something because people are concerned that the government is no longer functioning us government doesn't become a one month. so i talked to the end of this is because i know to walk. we have run out of time, but thank you to all of our guests on this fast moving and developing story. as we were quoting, that is how some kind in jail in nairobi, western she now her in johannesburg and austin and num, why in nairobi and to thank you to for watching, you can see the program again any time by visiting our website on to 0 dot com and for further discussion to go to a facebook page that's facebook dot com, forward slash a inside story. you can also join the conversation on x. a handle is at a inside story from me, elizabeth put on him and the whole team here. bye for now, the

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