side to a funeral service has been held for the remain to 14 scrubber needs of victims. at least a 1000 people are still missing while the un passed the resolution designating july, the 11th this rubber need so genocide, remember and stay. and 1995 bosnian serb forces kills more than 8000 mainly mostly men and boys. about 20000 civilians were forced to fleece rubber needs so the remains of many victims were found in mass graves and so far around 7000 bodies had been buried at the memorial center and put the car, read the remains of a 1000. people are still missing. this is the only incident during the bosnian war that international courts have defined as genocide. joan, how has this update from scrubber need? so but we've witnessed some of the un moving scenes over the last few hours here in the memorial symmetry. the impulse of char, just down the road from shrubbery to on the day of july. the 11th now officially

designated by the u. n. as a day of remembrance for forever. and it says, genocide improves thousands of people visiting the cemetery and they've been services of burial for the latest victims whose remains have finally been found and identified by a painstaking process of forensic archaeology that has gone on in these parts. for years, 14 new victims added to the numbers in this cemetery. the youngest was just 17. when he died berries me more, it she was better just over there. besides, his brother has seen his father on the bringing a new total of 6765 victims in the cemetery just across the road. incidentally from the un headquarters to house the peacekeepers, the dutch battalion a task with looking after the safety of boston muslims in a few and protected safe zone of shrubbery needs. so they looked on unable or

unwilling to help as mass atrocities, including acts of genocide, were committed by both names and forces against them both, both in most lives there and 29 is on time is not being a great healer, not least because of the divisions that still exist in this country, government is divided along as they can religious lines. the very genocide itself is viewed along similar lines in the course more than a 1000 people who were killed at that time in july, in 1995 have yet to be found. have yet to be identified. the remains still scott, it's through the hills and forest of this corner of east and boston during the whole. i'll just do a photo charlie, nice remedies. thanks for watching al jazeera, we'll have more news at the top of the hour, but that's coming off right after the bottom line. thanks for watching by israel's war on gossip be coming a forever across the united states. why are the student protests for palestine

being met with military style track down? why does binding insist on 0 consequences for it is real and it's war on gaza? the quizzical look at us politics, the bottom line. hi eric steve clements. i have a question. the us wants to keep the war and ukraine going until russia's will is broken, and ukraine is secure and soften. but is that strategy working? let's get to the bottom line. the nato comes to washington this week to figure out in part, the future of the ukraine war, which has now been going on for almost 2 and a half years with no end in sight. and an epic battle of wills rush and the west are testing which side will back down 1st the us. and if you're a, p and allies are providing ukraine with money with weapons, military training and intelligence support. on the other side, russia is insisting on a buffer zone along eastern ukraine. and once kids to

a band and aspirations have membership in the nato alliance. so what does all this mean for ukraine and his future? and how many more months or years of fighting before both sides will sit down at a negotiating table. today we're talking with n bremar president of the global political risk firm, your racial group and editor at large at time magazine. and thank you so much for joining us. listen, just about one year ago. right? about now got the aspen security for him. i heard then british foreign secretary, james cleverly say russia has already lost this war with ukraine in all categories . russia has lost. i remember writing about it and being astonished by the declaration, i'd love to get your sense of things right now as nato is coming to washington. where does the russia ukraine conflict? stan? yeah, i don't think there was any point uh at which, uh that that declaration should have been made um so far. uh, and i think that the russians certainly there occupying

a lot of ukrainian territory illegally. they have no right to occupy it. uh, but uh the ukrainians don't have the capacity to remove them. so if you're just looking at ukraine itself, you would say that the russians are quote, unquote, winning, or certainly the ukrainians are losing more. if you look at the world, and you look at the fact that put in just made his trip to north korea because kim john on and the iranian supreme leader are the only countries in the world that are willing to provide direct military assistance to the russians. and you see the hundreds of billions of russian assets that have been frozen the now increasingly functionally seized. uh, and you see the impact of a stronger expanded nato. you would certainly say the russians are losing globally . i mean, they, they are in a much worse position as a country, as a military,

as an economy today, than they were on february 22nd. you know, before they started this massive invasion of ukraine. so i mean, it's a complicated question, but thus far you know, it's the ukrainians who, who have of course, the most challenging position in the war. given the steps that we were taking by way of sanctions and whatnot. before given the isolation, we thought we were creating for russia. hasn't it really outperformed most of our western pessimistic prescriptions or, or analysis of russian decline? not really. i'm look, i, i take your point, steve, i think you're right. that, um, in the west uh, people want to see russia fail and therefore they portray russia as failing. and of course, it should be almost definitional. but if your analysis neatly lines up with what

you want to see happening, you should throw your analysis in the been because it's propaganda. right? i mean that's, that's never the case. life is always more complicated. now, it is the real issue of the russian at russia right now is a war economy and they've lost, you know, roughly a 1000000 the able bodied man scared of the draft who have been traveling to countries like b, m, or it's and armenia and georgia in any where they can go, which of course, really hurts the russian economy. long term. this is, if you look under the hood of the russian economy, this, this is a country that is not doing well, but, but the willingness of the united states and europe to take economic pain to hurt the russians is minimal. it's minimal. so i mean, you've got sanctions,

but those sanctions are not stopping the russians from exporting oil and gas to most of the world a and a discount. because the west knows that if they were to try to stop the russians from exporting to india and china and, and certainly the americans and europeans have the capacity to put the secondary sanctions on to make that happen. but it would lead to a global recession, which the u. s. and the europeans don't want. if you cut off the uranium, then know who's going to fuel the nuclear reactors in the west. the americans are still buying uranium from russia. if you cut off the food in the fertilizer, then you're going to see a lot more starvation in the global south, which the americans and the europeans don't want. so the reality is, the willingness of the americans and you pins to punish the russians economically, is surprisingly limited. given the rhetoric, it's understandable, but it's limited. and in that context, the russians of course have

a much longer release on being able to continue to prosecute this war against a much smaller, much weaker ukraine. i mean, the surprise has been the ukrainians have been able to get a bunch of their land back and fight the russians to a standstill. some of that is ukrainian, you know, sort of a willingness morale, because they're fighting for their land. and the russians aren't. i mean, the russians are essentially fighting as mercenaries, right. and part of it has been the willingness of the west to continue to provide a surprising amount of money, aid and military support directly for ukraine. and that, of course, we've seen the, the, a greater willingness over time of nato to do things that they would have considered red lines even months ago. is there a wall between us right now, both inside europe and also in the united states. frankly, that makes the sustainability of this position. so something that might plan to put

in his hands as generally speaking the far, the you are from russia, the less you care. right. i think that that's not surprising. and the longer the war goes on, the more other things like the us selection, like the war in the middle east. go to the headlines and certainly if you talk to the, by the ministration they've been spending more time in the last 8 months on the middle east, the senior most officials across the board, then they have on russia, ukraine. so i mean that, that, that, of course, also plays a role. now the europeans, it may surprise you, steve. the europeans overall are providing more money. they're spending more on ukraine then the americans are. and again, you know, that stands to reason. they have much more to lose. uh, but it is true that it took some 6 months for the americans to get that. $61000000000.00 package through it did have very strong bipartisan support from the

americans on the democratic and republican side, but no guarantees that would continue. certainly not under a trump administration of potentially not even under a, by the ministration. it's also getting a lot harder for the ukrainians to continue to raise young man to be able and willing to bite and to train them to be on the front lines you credit is a much smaller population than rush. it's also a democracy. rush isn't authoritarian regime, it's much easier for russia to engage in forced human trafficking and to take ethnic minorities from the middle vulgar siberia and force them to fight much easier for them to take people from prison, forced them to fight ukrainians, have a hard time doing that and it's a much smaller country. so for many reasons, if you look over 2025, you would say probably the ukrainians are going to have a harder time maintaining the present the front lines. then the russians are going to have the russians are going to have an easier time taking more land. i think

people are worried about that. and you also see with these, the most recent so called peace meeting in switzerland that, you know, there were fewer countries that attended and the global south a number of cor, countries like india, for example, like china didn't sign on or didn't show up. um, to the eventual memorandum of agreement as the war per says, you know, ukrainians were getting more skittish about fighting it, and the rest of the world is moving more towards we need a ceasefire. so of course, if you're putting you, you understand the playing the long game is an advantage for you, which, which means that the desire of the west to make ukraine appears stronger and a bit enabled to damage russia. but at some point, move towards negotiations. i think is, is in their interest,

nato secretary general against oldenburg recently said these efforts, these recent efforts do not make nato a party to the conflict, but they will enhance our support to ukraine, to uphold his right to self defense. so there seems to be a lot of theater around whether nato is part of the conflict, not part of the conflict, even though many e u. member states that are members of nato are providing this weapons and support . and even though ukraine is going to be a very hot topic right at the center of the nato summit here in washington, i'm just interested, particularly as we've seen new armaments going into ukraine that can be used for long term hits inside russia. how long that fiction is going to last? um, you know, it is true that there are no boots on the ground. that, you know, nato is not firing these weapons directly, but they're providing the weapons, they're allowing the ukrainians to use them on russia directly in response to russian invasion of ukraine. so, i mean, i think it's clear that it's becoming

a proxy war. and it's also clear that nato is heavily and directly invested in ukraine, being able to defend themselves and take their land back. so is it a fiction that nato is not involved? yeah, that's a fiction. having said that is a legitimate war for russia. no, i mean, when russia says how dear you attack crimea, and we're going to blame you united states for providing the attack homes that, that, you know, allow the ukrainians to hit crimea. crimea is ukrainian territory. it was, it was annex the legally by the russians. so, i mean, you know, the fact that the russians are making, you know, the for administer survey love, rob is making that argument, you know, just shows how much in breach of international law the, the russians continue to be. i mean, the fact is that the north koreans and the ronnie ends are 2 of the only countries in the world, but actually support rushes position in the war of ukraine. china does not try to

trades with russia. china is one of russia's best friends. and yet, the chinese have consistently said that they fully respect ukrainian territorial integrity. the foreign minister has said that includes crimea. so, i mean, the fact is that the russians are fighting and illegitimate illegal war. and the fact that ukraine is not a member of nato and has no way to get into nato in the near term, makes them weaker, but, but nato is providing direct support for ukraine in much the way that the americans under bush senior, were providing report to quade when saddam hussein's iraq illegally invaded them, the big difference of course, is that saddam hussein's iraq wasn't a nuclear power. and it was a hell of a lot militarily, week or so. it was easy to push them out and overrun them. that is not the case with poor is russia? is there any equation that you're aware of that would allow nato members to,

to bring in a ukraine without defined borders or without either internationally accept borders in what is still kind of potentially a high conflicts down? well my, my point here steve, is that i believe that ukraine will be partitioned. i don't think the ukrainians will, will agree to that. i don't think that, you know, the international community is going to suddenly respect russian sovereignty over ukrainian land. but the reality is they're not going to get their land back. there's no way to do it. there isn't the will. and i, that, that's sad is me. i think it's wrong, but it's reality it's analysis, right? so if you crane is going to be partitioned, how do you do the ukrainians of future, that is both stable and productive for their people for their country. and you need to give them the money to rebuild. number one, after the destruction that has occurred in the fact that russian assets that have

been frozen, that are being sees will be used for that reconstruction is wholly appropriate in my mind. you need to integrate ukraine fully into the european union, which will help them become more of a democracy which will help them become a stronger economy. which rules rule of law that and, and less corruption, that the rest of the world can do business with. and you need some form of a hard guarantees for guarantees the in the part of ukraine that russia has not occupied, that, that the west will defend the ukrainians as an hour off. and i don't know exactly what sort of ukranian territory that will be, will that be the whole 80 percent that russia doesn't occupy right now, will it be some diminished piece? but there has to be some ability that ukrainians know that going forward. the americans and the allies really have their back in

a way that in 2014 and in 2022. they certainly did not. nato membership is the best way to eventually affect that in my view. but that can probably only occur when we have a ceasefire between russia and ukraine. that is not contingent, but nonetheless is a reality. so that that's what i'm talking about, steve. it can't just be, you know, like the budapest memorandum when the americans and the brits and the, the russians all setup you give up your nuclear weapons. we'll, we'll make sure we defend you, but that there's no guarantees there they gave up their nukes. and then the russians invaded and the west was like, oh wow. oh, well, right, i mean, that really undermines what a commitment from the united states means. i mean, not russia, because no one takes their commitments seriously. but in principle, in american commitments should mean something. and, and so to ukraine, over the last couple decades, it has not. it is donald trump. when's the presidential election united states in

november? what does that mean for ukraine in this equation? well, donald trump wants to end the war in ukraine, and that means he will tell the landscape you've got to accept the present territorial line or i'm not going to give you any more support. so the ceasefire. start negotiations. no more fighting. and in the russians he will say the same thing. you've got to accept the ceasefire, no movement of the territory or, or there's going to be much tougher sanctions against you, real sanctions on the central bank or take them out of swift, up for financial transactions. the oil export we talked about before, robert o'brien, who was of course, trump national security adviser, has been recently opining on that publicly. but trump and n team have been saying this privately for months now. now the difference is that the ukrainians are going to be deeply uncomfortable with that reality as well. many

europeans, while putting is much more likely to say great, yeah, i can, i am willing to have that conversation. so it does essentially gives me the, the, where the russians have gotten into more legitimacy than any other american president, democrat or republican would accept, you know, roughly, i mean, i don't want to misstate you, but you know, actually what you just define, trump is doing. seems to approximate what you think will happen in the end anyway. i mean, it's sort of in my, getting that wrong, that you're getting it wrong because i think what trump will do will not be coordinated with america's allies. a trump is a unilateral list, he doesn't like a strong europe. he certainly doesn't want to work closely with the you. he liked rex it. he, when he speaks with my chronics, like when are you going to do a for exit, right? so 5 and his approach has been very much

a multi lateral approach that makes nato stronger because it coordinates with all nato allies. nato allies are not convinced that trump wants nato to exist, and he would make those decisions on ukraine by himself. without the alignment, in fact, with opposition from the poles, from the bulbs and the rest. so i worry. but even if the outcome visa these ukraine looks similar, the reality is that the ukraine war isn't just about ukraine. if it was, we wouldn't spend any time on it. it's much more about the west, the transatlantic relationship, nato and russia. and in this regard, a, trump is much more of a threat to the persistence of that relationship of that reality. then a 2nd bite and terms. let me ask you quickly about russia's froze in central bank assets. the majority of which i understand are in belgium. there's been discussion over there of, you know, taking the growth in gains as opposed to the principal of those. and using them to

support ukraine, others want to take wholesale, rush and assets and deploy them are to create and there's a big split in the kind of global financial sector. i would say, you know, we have some former secretaries of treasury and us like larry summers were willing to basically take those russian assets. you have others like his former boss, secondary, bob, reuben, who thinks that opens up a pandora's box and really creat another depot destabilization. and essentially the commons of the global financial architecture. i'd love to get your take on that. well it's, it's already happened. we saw the g 7 meet thing in the past weeks. there is an agreement um to basically collateral allies, the russian assets and give a loan of some $50000000000.00 to ukraine that will be paid off with the interest of those assets that will be guaranteed not paid back to the russians. the principal, for at least 30 years, when you're,

when you're freezing the principle of someone's assets for 30 years, and you're using the interest, you're seizing the assets. so there isn't actually, i mean, this is a, it's a nice, you know, sort of a hand waving kind of legal fix onto the disagreement that you spoke of. the reality is that there is greater concern slash urgency from the europeans and the americans. that what happens if you don't have long term support for ukraine? this is one way to get around that. but even if trump says, i'm not going to provide more support, you're going to see long term support that is paid out on the back of the russian assets that have been frozen, slash sees. and yes, that is a precedent. it's a precedent that could weaken the euro overtime. it's a precedent that could lead the russians to seize european assets and other assets in russia that here to for, they have not taken those steps. and it also could lead other countries around the world to say, well, if you just sees rushes assets in contravention to international law,

why wouldn't you seize mind going forward? maybe i'm not a safe is i had been in your country or countries. now, the fact, but china is an authoritarian system that doesn't have a convertible currency and that russia rates international law all the time. doesn't necessarily make you feel more comfortable. that's suddenly putting your assets in those countries, but certainly, you know, this is the kind of thing that could make you think the crypto could see a spike. uh, you know, things like a single floor in currency, other smaller safe havens. but there just isn't a large alternative to the dog or in the euro in are in a rule of law and democratic space. just ask you finally about the nato summit in washington in. and i'm interested in how you see this playing out politically. inside the united states. there's nato become a greater politically divisive item in american politics, orders the white house, somehow wind by having the summit in washington during

a presidential election race. i think the fact that the americans got the money in the arms to ukraine, the front lines are pretty stable, makes this a little bit less urgent than the middle east. war is right now. i think that that's not in yahoo. the is really prime ministers trip to the united states to speak to congress on july 24th. we'll have more impact on the race than the nato summit. i think they know some of this more important long term instructionally, but you are asking me specifically about the elections. also keep in mind, nato is not only larger now with 2 new countries in the nordics that have joined, but also nato countries are spending a lot more in defense. a big piece of that is because of the russian invasion. but some of that is because of american pressure and of trump becomes president. you know, one of the things he can say is, yeah, nato was stronger now because of me, he can take credit. so it's not clear to me that a 2nd trump term will be saying nato is no good. they're not spending any money. a trump wants to take credit for some of nato's successes. he can't,

i will end up there. thank you so much founder and president the razor group in bremmer. really appreciate you. joining us today. i was gonna see see, so what's the bottom line? the warren ukraine is about much more than a russian invasion or ukraine's interest in tying itself into europe and nato. ukraine is now the battle ground of a classic proxy conflict between the united states and russia. yes, other allies are involved with this is fundamentally about the spheres of influence of the us and russia. and we've seen this play out over and over again in the past . sure. the soviet union, last massive territory and global prestige when it's empire finally collapsed in exhaustion after decades of competition with the west. but the end game is rarely a clear victory for one side or the other. everybody says they want peace, but nobody wants to surrender. so they keep going, neither side is likely to get all at once. this conflict ends with negotiation, with both sides,

keeping something and both sides losing something. that's what neither side will admit. yes. and that's the bottom line. the of the latest news, as it breaks the functioning hospitals across the street are in the bring up a lot with detail coverage. elizabeth facilities are for hundreds of 1000. more people are at risk of contracting, painful and dangerous infection from the hearts of the story goes, is it come to me, is in ruins. israel hospital gifted and destroyed industries that employed tens of thousands of people, the unique perspectives. one picture is not going to tell the entire wants of the genocide. however, it is bringing attention to advise that this has not been rough and looks like we're off. it looks like so on heard voices. we've been seeing the exacerbation of

the militarization and the police over the past 10 years. connect with our community and tap into conversations you will find elsewhere. folks in the region, government and other companies are stealing indigenous land. the stream on out to 0, a $150.00 is a gyptian history seen through an extraordinary photographic archive. telling the story of egypt through this. from the earliest for quoted photos of the royal family in 1836 to the country's fest presidents. showing how those in power have always gone to great lengths to control the public image. egypt through the lens liters on al jazeera, the

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safe. them even come in as an international insight, corruption excellence award nominator here on now the, the israel's prime minister says how most of the demands for blocking a gaza ceasefire. z o as negotiations take place in caspar while there's really forces withdraw from guys. has shoes, are you a neighborhood destroying homes and infrastructure the you're watching ultra 0. my for my headquarters and don't mind getting navigates. are also coming up the power of protest. a huge shake. comp, antonio's government officer, weeks of turmoil, and rewind.