on the way instead in the meantime, cagle's testimony is only added to the 5 pauses on calls for her to go with detailed coverage. people have said that they feel emmanuel macro is doing everything very tiny in order not to a point next to any prime minister from around the world to this particular comes at a more than 220 $6000.00, making the total to more than $1200000.00, soothing this refugees in charge alone extravagance, but controversial. a scene in the opening ceremony of the parents olympics has angered many for appearing some mock religious symbols. others say it was a display of in facility. what was the host country france trying to convey a message? and if so, what was it? this is inside story, the

hello and welcome to the program. i'm how much in june the meaning disgusting and disrespectful. those are some of the words used to describe a controversial scene during the opening ceremony of the olympic games in paris. organizers have apologized for the performance against the backdrop of the river send. the many saw as a spoof of leonardo da vinci is the last supper painting comprised of drag queens, a transgender model, and a sing are made up, is the greek god of wine. it provoke outrage among some catholics, other christian groups and muslims around the world. france has a strong catholic heritage but also a long tradition of secularism. last from me is legal and considered by many to be in a central pillar of freedom of speech. supporters of the opening ceremony praised it's message of inclusivity and tolerance. so was this scene simply an example of freedom of expression, or could france have been trying to advance a secular agend? we'll discuss all this with our guests in a few moments. but 1st, this report from victoria gate and b. a performance during the powers and intakes

opening ceremony outraged many catholics, christians muslims, around the world will just say, or it doesn't have access to the pictures. but critics say the scene mocked jesus through what many swords. a parody of lino davinci is painting the last supper, including drag queens, appearing to portray the apostles. the french bishops conference released a statement saying, we are thinking of all christians on every continent. he's been hurt by the outrages provocation of certain scenes. we want them to understand that the olympics celebration goes far beyond the ideological biases of a few artists. organizes apologize to anyone who was offended, saying the last software was not the inspiration for the scene. and clearly there was never an intention to, to show disrespect to any or which the group if people have taken any offense, we are of course, really, really sorry. friends have strict secular lo,

separating church and state drug. queen hugo about dan performed in the opening ceremony and says it was a celebration of inclusivity tolerance and free speech values. the french represents was the best and most and personally, i think they shouldn't have apologize because an apology means recognizing a mistake. recognizing that you deliberately did something to hong, which was not the case. we're here to celebrate from st. its diversity in the city of here, hold on for the destitute. some catholics attending church in paris said the controversy was always a blind about this personal that i say, god is the one who judges. it's not all place to judge. i am mostly disappointed and the people are choosing this time of unification to separate that. so there are people with different opinions were battling each, each other, and in conflict with each other and feel like they have to win in this category and not area support. the limbic chart to expresses the values of the games of

excellence, friendship and respect. yet many of questioning whether the parish opening ceremony struck the right tone and whether it included respect for religious beliefs and freedom of speech. victoria gave some b, l, g 0 for inside story. all right, let's go ahead and bring in our guest. joining us from paris is simon cooper, a journalist, and a column this for the financial times. he's also the author of impossible city paris in the 21st century. in bristol, is david gold lab, a sports journalist, and author of the games, a global history of the olympics. and in room, gerardo connell is a vatican course upon it for american magazine. and the author of the election of pope francis an inside account of the conclave to change history. a warm welcome to you all, and thanks so much for joining us today on inside story, simon. the olympic organizing committee a pair says that this was not meant as

a take on the last supper that the tablo that was presented was actually intended to interpret dion, isis, and raise awareness of quote, the absurdity of violence between human beings. you've lived in paris for quite a while. now. what are you hearing from friends and neighbors and colleagues, and what is your take on all of this? a little pole by her and shows it actually 6. besides the french people were happy with the opening ceremony. it was not a party of demetrius law, supper. it was based on the stocks painting, as you say, a 100 years often of injury which depicts the great gods with their niece. this is represented at the olympics in the ceremony by a naked mind, with fight with paints over his body. and that is the inspiration. it's showing the great colors in revelry and celebration, it's appropriate because they were painted or what they were supposedly posing on man's olympus. and athletes completed it in the ancient olympics, naked and so it didn't really have anything to do with the benches, los up except the pain. so like many painters of the day,

or was inspired by the kind of shaping body dementia of how you can represent people as a meal. but he's depicting a pagan for 17, very nice as a great got the picture. there's also the father of the goddess of the sand river, san rivers. when certainly takes place. so i'm afraid that the catholic traction is process just misunderstood. what was being depicted. i'm drawing, let me ask you about what time and just that he says that the catholic church misinterpreted. you know what this was all about. i mean from your perspective, why has there been so much outrage and a fence that was taken? well, the reaction has been mixed in reality. the, the 1st statement came from the french patients. one would have imagined that they have some better insight into what is being depicted in the country than people outside the country. then there was a strong reaction in the american some reaction initially,

some other countries. but i myself watched the opening ceremony with the group of people, some pre, some other people who happened to be coming for dinner. and i, i actually hadn't tweak door, hadn't noticed old friends in that original presentation for a start. i mean davinci his last supper. you have heard the 12 apostles here. you had, i think up to about 17 people in that scene that is a controversial team. but as certainly, you know, we're living in a polarized society and there's also for right as ation, pretty much in friends as we have seen in the recent elections, but also in the church and friends. we say bought a reservation the same in the united states. and in other countries, and so the reaction has come not just from religious leaders,

but also political leaders. and as you said in your introduction, also i see the, the muslim council of elders led by the grande ma'am of how this hour has come out strongly on this question. i think there's various the readings of it and as a, i think simon, at the beginning said that it's a, there's interpretation says, what was actually the scene. me was it the she was a laser artist davinci was 1494. was that the later chapters to a was taking some inspiration from davinci. it was for during something else, i don't know and i'm not in a position to, to judge what this was. but i do know that the reaction that among the french bishops was fairly the sort as a mockery and as

a duration of christianity. as some bishops in the united states, some very well known bishops took the same stands in 1st thing that pope has not spoken on this. and i will come to this later when, if you wish david from your perspective, what was your initial reaction to this controversy that interrupted around the opening ceremony. and do you feel that ultimately this overshadows the athleticism that is supposed to really take center stage and beyond display? i don't think i ever says anything. i just think it's concocted rage for the most part from people who were looking for a fight and have actively and deliberately misinterpreted what is in front of them . i mean, there is no doubt that the, you know, the sol, so the idea kinds of the produces, they set themselves from the doctor pain saying, and if people go to problem with green, golds being to pick say they know,

then pick sermon a, whatever the full amount 40, they're going to have a problem with the olympics as a whole. the engine olympics were pagan festival, i mean, as well as being a celebration of time politic, culture and civilization. they were primarily a religious festival in celebration of the gold 6. and you know, when to cooper time can call it his own version of molten olympus. i'm the absolutely knowledge and absolved those pagan roots full. the multi 1000000 picture to have a spiritual dimension, but absolutely not a christian one. i'm sorry to say just to be entirely appropriate, but you have a bunch of great goals. um, you know, celebration it doesn't seem to me that it's anything to do with davinci all the law sapa. and i just think, you know, the 1st, the sermon he is a whole was a piece of lovely french wins and i part so do so like partly your vision song

contest. um, i think it is an entirely inappropriate, uncontrolled said form of rage to be complaining about it. i mean, let me cite as a jew, have i decided to recreate the pulsing of the red sea on the site and i filled it with the equivalent of power as pride. i would not have had a problem. in fact, i would have been laughing my head off assignment to david's point that this is a lot of concocted rage. there are commentators that it said that this controversy is just one more example of the culture wars that play out on the 21st century. they get amplified by social media platforms by the 24 hour news cycle. and then what do you think is this ultimately just all overblown? i think there's a lot of cultural entrepreneurs immediately jump in. so in problems on the far right, my little more shallow been an example of course they immediately have to come in because there's an opportunity for publicity. interestingly,

the leaders of the far right policy, i was talking about national and my the band and has like a part that they stay quiet knowing that it was quite a popular germany among french people. so you have that cultural entrepreneur as the old trump included who immediately you have their views. i think that the french basics were genuinely offended by a misunderstanding. it reminds me of, i think was the contracts complaining about multi person's life. for brian, it's quite hard to be taken fully seriously, if you complain with a misunderstanding about something form about the if you haven't fully grosse which was like with multiple hyphen as well. so yeah, i think that's what use do you make of an opening ceremony? some people say is funds almost as beautiful some people's as boring, but the store you have to make off to which to compel attention is that was a control to say that was a fight. and so this is what's happened is also really startling, that kind of misunderstanding that continues to persist about davinci. i know just even annual subtitles. it was saying that it was based on the entries last summer.

so i do think that there is a lot of kind of unimpressive response going on here. gerard, you mentioned a couple of moments ago that you wanted to talk about the pope not having spoken about this yet. so i'm gonna let you go ahead and make the point you wanted to. yes, on sunday, in other words, the day after the opening ceremony, many had expected the pope to say something. in actual fact he spoke, but he didn't refer to this. he said the, the scandal is that we have a lot of simon in the world. we have a lot of investment in arms. we have, which are fueling wars and conflicts around the world. and he said, that is the scandal today. and i think it's interesting, he spoke earlier about the olympic games traditionally being a moment for truce or a fighting stopped. and so i think it's interesting that even to

this day he has not made any comment tended, nor has that is the vatican media office, nor nice really serious senior official in nevada can come into that i, i myself, when i watched as i, i thought it was a, 1st of all, a very original presentation, seeing what was it? 35 boats moving down the type of the day. they said, sorry. and i told the some people who criticize the fact of money into a net having over by heads under the arm, the singer, some people say, well, you know, this is encouraging the, or giving some support to the idea of the death penalty other. so in this metal horse, right, going down the same, an image of the woman on the horse, an image of joan of arc, and the lots of people also things out of it. i think what i found that significant

that the pope said nothing. a david i want to talk to you about see what different, right, right david, i want to look at another dimension of all this and i want to talk you about something which i believe you wrote about something else related to the olympics that caused outrage. um, this one pertaining to the french millions thing or i and i can more uh, she performed during the opening ceremony. she's the most listen to french female singer in the world. but when it was 1st announced that she would be part of the lineup, she became the target of racist abuse. and there were even polls conducted in france in which the majority of respondents said that she was not a suitable standard bearer of the french language. and culture, what does that say about where france is right now at a time when it is on the world stage, hosting the ceremony? what it says, there's quite a lot of noisy races to native i 7 fronts, but i don't know the majority. i'm one of the fabulous things about not commerce performance. was that it was in front of the academy phone site. the organization

that police are, is you know, the grammar of the vocabulary of the french language. i'm not come or has been relentlessly criticized by the fall right in front for not speaking french for introducing slang. africa was an arabic woods, into the language, and i thought it was just fantastic that she was showcased in front of the academy for on site. and that seems to be a message that says pharmacies changing. i'm from says i put into it's internal, cultural and linguistic diversity. i'm celebrating it. what a great thing. all right, another controversy of the olympics invo involves basketball player and then by she says her dreams were shattered. when the french basketball federation announced the ban on players competing in religious clothing. now she's launched the basketball for all that's a movement that aims to confront perceive religious discrimination in france and provide a safe space for muslim women athletes. this is her story. the single ones you

can see now you don't see what questions in the moment you can most time. it's hard to fly in the boxes and tell me why this was lesson in it. most cruises to the funds, extra proof of cost, and i thought it seems you thought you for long. so don't usual. good use. use quickbooks to figure out which will to impress really care. leticia discuss the make sure that's the only 100 concourse 111 questionnaire fan. of the pictures were for ships boxes. here is the price to sort of boeing as much as on the product that's on nothing too much. the pro need a try for somebody,

please. a few years to me to on top of this region would be fantastic on to the soon as i'm can be club because of the owners was to those who are really z. the maxine to connect you to the best get fulfilled. kinda concluded this taking this road on let's get the concept clear. you've given me your funds to you, but you told me to you sure if it was supposed to stops ship on the phone for the shuttle come in the holes and the tv solutions. and i'm going to buy $106.00, so it's on the index. this one's value functions, ramsey. and so, so this is q specified on best kid can also do

some kind of holes for them because something else comes in. if i have brought something up comfortable stick fluff, he's just got home. come on, can you call? sally says here this is david. despite months of campaigning by sporting organizations, france did not reverse its decision to ban french athletes where the job from participating in the olympics. human rights organizations have said that this contradicts francis pledge to deliver the 1st gender equal games, and that this is a breach of human rights treaties. if these olympic games are supposed to be about inclusive anti and quality, what kind of message has a sent? well, it well depends who you're sending a message to doesn't. i mean, on the one hand, if you want to send a message to the file right in front,

and then they're probably going to be pretty pleased about ad semesters that they're really pleased to hear of. i used to defend very, very strictly the secular religious divide in french, the saw, i'd say, a probably pretty pleased with it for you. so you have a much more open, an inclusive sense of what constitutes human rights will be very disappointed and receiving a different message on myself. um, you know, go back to the point chair of my earlier on with the plate on this is, you know, the real scandal is that, you know, people are dying and goals. are you crying? and, you know, the assignment in like really this is the key over you want to die on, i think is really unfortunate myself. so i understand that, you know, i know french and this is very much an, an issue in front assignment. well, let me get your take on this, cuz you're there in paris. amnesty international says that his job bands infringe sports undermine efforts to make supports more inclusive, and they mean that most of them players and actually to where his job and france

will continue to be discriminated against. i mean, how much does this impact and potentially more these olympic get i do find quite shocking effects, particularly religious muslim women. because of course, it's only expected of mine to of a headscarf. and there's a ban on wearing religious symbols in if you're working for the states and public function. and before the olympics, i interpret this to mean that if you're playing for problems with the olympics, you're representing the states in a public function. so that rule applies, but of course they don't look good. i think you might be wearing a crucifix. there's never been a fuss about people wearing joyous young because in public offers. it's very much being enforced against muslims. and yes, of course, and in this cartridges, most of the women from wanting to work in the sites offers where they come, whether they oh, from now one things place for to being able to place both from so yeah, it's a message of exclusivity. it's saying if your religious muslim,

there are places of why you're not welcome. gerard, i could be wrong. look to me like you were reacting to what simon was saying, that maybe you want to jump in if so please go ahead. no, i, i think the games the olympic games are meant to foster fraternity or brotherhood or sisterhood and among and piece of harmony among nations. but if you look back in history is that there's always been moments when there's been a controversy, a one thing or another. i think the question of prohibiting people from wearing bales i, i disagree with i, i think get to the, i think. and as, for example, i, i've seen that they've come out strongly against discrimination. most religious leaders come out strongly against religious discrimination in whatever form it may take. and i think it said the to, and i agree with the,

so i meant that as i said, it's that this is the situation and friends of the country which prides itself on the quality of fraternity and liberty. still not really giving concrete expression full expression to what this means. and i, i think the, the, the, the whole essence of religion is speaking about, you know, that we're all children of god, a quote. and we should be able to express ourselves in different ways without coming in under the hammer of the states in a given country. and there's a lot of persecution we know around the world in terms of religion in terms of discrimination, in terms of braces and. and i think the games should be the end to adults to that. and it should really foster a different spirit. we're seeing productivity and there is respect for

diversity and respect for different expressions of that diversity. david, i just wanna zoom out for a minute here and, and talk more about the spectacle of the opening ceremony. you've written that for most of the 20th century, opening ceremonies were very formal, but that in 1984, the opening ceremony in los angeles that, that was very different. that was sort of a break with tradition that it took on the look of kind of an open air, broadway musical. and that since that opening, by and large, most of the ceremonies have been much more celebratory. they've included, you know, music and pop stars and elements of concerts is what you saw in paris. is that very much in keeping in line with this tradition. yeah, totally. over the last, you know, 3040 years, the host types, the opportunity to tell a story about itself, sometimes comprehensible, sometimes as in the case of athens, 2004,

pretty much in corporate head start to everybody. and they also have um, recognized that it's a form of entertainment. it's a show. i mean, that's what happened in los angeles in 1984 is that you put people from hollywood in charge. and indeed the cost of an opening ceremony is pretty close. i would say to a mid range, hollywood blockbuster, the arrival of line richie playing at the closing ceremony of the la guides in 1984 was the 1st time you have a nice old on pope saw as part of the olympics, i suspect to cooper times probably turning in his grave every time he sees it. but now it's now absolutely essential elements. and it's why impala they say they are named sarah. many is the thing that gets the biggest television audience. so i think from the powers 2024 is very much in the tradition that's been developed to um the last 40 years. it was the last pompous maybe unless

grandiose than size. so she 2014, which was primarily an exercise in russian imperial history and ambition. it was much more easy going occasionally humorous adults would be to i can see serious like, you know, maybe a month. so i would say from long to 2012. so i think sarah may side. yeah, it's very much as one would expect, obviously on the river node in society and there's something new. but yeah, it's very much in the grooves that everyone else has been pursuing for the last few decades. this summer we only have about a minute and a half left. i just want to ask you, what is your response to those who say that the opening ceremony was just pushing the envelope of what it means to be french and to those who say that this was about the secular france trying to an advance an agenda. i don't see it as circular from saddam sing and agenda so much as french people who design this are me talking to

other friends people you know what we are diverse nation. so the message that i think french people say wasn't so much about religion, it was about, i think our advice and see you have a survey that starts with too many of our origin soon that needs be done. and the comedian jermel to boost it ends with 2 black french athletes lighting the olympic flame. and in the middle of it, do you have, i am dr. move to the black french sing or molly and origin 9. i think it's, you know, what will these, these products will, ex, traditions me and all this has, but it's a diverse funds and so the control to see about religion and i think it comes with it or not so much of that. no. all right, well we have run out of time, so we're going to have to leave the conversation there. thanks so much to all of our guest sign in to for david, go black and gerard o'connor, and thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website. i'll just hear a. com and prefer the discussion go to our facebook page, that's facebook dot com,

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