one to release him across the golf who had been convicted of murder and 2021 for killing a former chechen rebels in berlin. at the end of the day did getting this all done, machines make a deal and you, you lose and encourage bad behavior by making the deal. and yet, the fundamentally, the decision to a free embassy at the consulting process. so that man deserve to be in jail. i am sure about that, but unfortunately driven your way when you're out of the western practice, they will not cooperate with the rush, something they, they will not cooperating to solve the main key. so obviously in the decision to make the date of the speed was the only way that just wouldn't be the, i'm sorry, you know, i mean 373 the steven i saw you be kind of reacting to one of the points that glen was making earlier when he was talking about perhaps unintended consequences of these types of deals. i wanted to, to drill down on that point. would you?

because the critics of vitamin fruit and say that he arrest foreigners and russia for minor offenses or for concocted charges in order to later be uh, and the realist in russia said that, no, this is something that we really tried to call the well as steve and i saw your reaction somewhat dimitry was saying, did you want to add to the point he was making? well, i don't think this is dawn of a great relationship, but i do think it has been very clear since russia invaded ukraine in a big way. a couple years ago now that in russia, it has turned its back on relations with the west. now, dimitri argues it was done the other way around. this is a russian narrative. i'm not gonna argue with it. but the fact of the matter is, i think both sides understand that there's going to be

a period of chill and russia has, has defended the war crane as a defensive war against western expansions. and it has created new relationships with china and iran. and it seems very fun, interested, frankly, in better relations with the west. and this will be true, i think so long as lot of our remains the chief of all the rushes he's, he's the voters, he's the boss. and as long as he's the volume just i don't think relations are going to improve very much. glenn, what do you say on this issue? uh, american officials of course have insisted that the swap in no way hands that any did talents between washington and moscow. what's your take on all this? i think that's true, but i think i might be slightly more optimistic the or not leave the then

or to be treaty or for us, even steven on this point. the meaning that i don't see it, we are in a cold for a week. it's a, have been for, for years then the cancel, this will not improve relations. however, i do this as the more likely than not a or a signal from the moscow. there have been to the just nascent indications of from, from dr. you're approved in the that he's no longer taking the ultra position on the ukraine, which would mean it's destruction of the the death suit of the nazi jewish leaders and all the other forces as his the possibilities become more limited there in still making sure that i'm more likely, right, and you'd have started to see a piece of proposal coming from las golf for the 1st time. and this will not this,

the prisoner exchange will not lead to a moment to for happiness and are on time between the 2 sides. but the, i take it is the beginnings of an indication that sometime in the future there is a must go, would accept some kind of, uh, negotiated solution. but just the very, very beginning. i don't think this would have happened had a must go not desired to change the or the current or they're just bored and dynamic in glenn. i also just want to talk for a couple of minutes with you about the, the complicated logistics of all of this. i mean, how difficult was this to pull off? i mean, what sets it apart from other prisoners swaps in the past and how much had to go right in order for this to happen a while, you and, and tell in an intelligence operation if the secret city is penetrated, the,

then the operation often will have to be softer, won't go off the rails in the instance of a prisoner exchange. that is not necessarily as true because the making of public making negotiations public does not necessarily have to do the work towards a certain objective. but however, it's always better in any negotiation to keep standings are discrete because the individuals like my 2 colleagues, i'm talking to the interview here. we'll write stories about it and, and then complicates the work of the all parties involved. and then it goes usually because they're always conflicting objectives. yeah. and interest groups within the government, outside the government, across governments and so on. and so keeping it secret up until the point of resolution is, is always better from a government officials perspective. and to,

since you have multiple parties involved in this, the, the risk of something actually leaking or our explanation, we are the but it's, it's always better to be discrete until you can reach an agreement with the partner you're negotiating with a saving. we only have about a minute left um, from your perspective did the both of us and rush to get what they wanted most out of the swap, or is there the perception that one side walked away with more of what they saw? no i, i think this was an well negotiated deal. i mean, i don't think the germans got what they might have wanted with novel need, but i think it's for the 2 big powers this this worked out well. and i'm also hopeful, but glenn is right. i mean, i think the ukraine war seems to be heading toward a form of stalemate, and there will be negotiations only i believe when a lot of improvement decides has gotten as much as you train as he's capable of,

of getting. so this may signal a new interest in the talks. i hope that's true and i hope we can bring that killing to an end. all right, well we have run out of time, so we're going to have to leave the conversation there. thanks so much to all of our guest, dimitri babbage, when carl and steven or lender, and thank you for watching, you can see the program again any time by visiting our website. and i'll just share a. com and prefer the discussion go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash age and side story. you can also during the conversation on x r handle is at a j and type story for me. i'm how much i'm drilling a whole team here. bye for now. the what's most important to me is talking to people, understanding what they're going through here. it just here to we believe everyone

has a story. we're hearing a japanese american veteran. mistaken. so the enemy, traumatized by the vietnam war, were united with a friend who rescued his life from his fellow soldiers, fifties on the prices. perhaps you don't realize that until experience an epic tale of friendship. sacrifice has entered covers with nice the volunteer on out to 0. hard hitting interviews is israel that know political piece? i think that to move in the f one, his government with these says 5 digit, you say getting russell, a thought provoking odd since the e you made weapons being used in gaza. no guns should be used in an offensive way. that's our facing realities. you're running mean, what does he bring to the table? hard from being presidential? could we go to some we cannot take effect of you to sign the president as not that

important factor. he had the story on talk to how does era, we are a few kilometers from the border with as well. and one of the oldest markets in the middle east. this corner in southern lebanon hasn't been directly targeted for the sound of his rarely war planes, as well as rocket launches by hezbollah has become part of the day, the nice. the instability is affecting livelihoods. my home has been destroyed. i live to my village, we lost every 2 weeks ago. we were here shopping. and the exchange of bias started . people ran away. there's little optimism in a conflict that's linked to an end to as well as war on casa, or possibly not even holding the powerful to account. as we examined the us as role in the was on o g 0 or the

wrong release as details of its investigation into the assassination of how much leader it's night. honey, you're accusing washington of this thing is real in the killing the you're watching l g 0 life and the headquarters in delphi and jerry, navigate is also coming up ongoing fighting and they occupied westbank following and is really strikes that killed a local commander of the office for games, a suicide bomb attack on a popular beach and the somali capital kills at least 32 people as about claims responsibility. the.