things through here, sensing that the last horrible mine, but it's a journey voices from different corners of survival. it's survivable survivor runs for reparations. and justice stories from all the angles. life is actually music of the way people talk, the way we walk programs that open your eyes to an alternative view of the world today. on now to sierra the hello i made or instead of it, and this is counting the cost on i was just seeing where you are. we can look at the business of a couple things. this spring theorist says domination of the global economy said, decades, but the world is friendship by geopolitical tensions and globalization as pricing of backlash. is the economic or the change, or is it the u. s. versus china?

the trade war between the 2 nations are seen to help the competition between washington and aging could accelerate the collapse of the old system. so what's the alternatives? developing nations are formed, economic alliances like brooks to count up the dominance of the west. but when it book, the economic integration and globalization of freeflow trade with the us for held, that's the economic go to the world is known for decades today though, this integration of the rules based world order is evident for all to see countries of becoming more inward looking regulates re fences, have been the rector of the world trade organization is in limbo, nations or racing to build the industries of the future. and trade restrictions are increasingly being imposed by the system that govern the global economy. since the 2nd world war is at a tipping point now, both and ever so is

a new world order emerging. we'll discuss back with, i'll guess shortly. but 1st, let's listen to what some leaders have to say about the old one of the poor countries have bein and being a pest and title lies by the rich countries. naturally, the poor i'll be to an angry and have lost faith in justice and on global political economy, government created more than 6 decades have not kept pace. the changing realities of 2 were punching on sale really. metrics remains the one dynamic element in the global economy. and as such, they will account for a significant share of trade changing should. how would you also find an on going out to find the development of the emerging market and developing countries is not intended to move the cheese, but to make the pie of the global economy. because we should push forward the

establishment of governing models and rules which will balance and inclusive, we should push forward the reform of the global economic governance system to reflect the current structure and realities. the want to keep the whole spike each night. i asked myself, why should every country have to be tied to the dollar for trade? why can't we trade in our own currency if you don't know where they move and why don't we have that commitment to intervene? report discovery with an uber with the union. we are against any kind of a gemini or exclusivity propagated by some countries and the new policy of ongoing colonialism near colonialism based upon this assumption. know if we have to reform global economics, financial and political, as well as the most to little trading system. so that we can create a couldn't just safe environment for federal let's introduce you to

a panel of experts and get a quick reaction from them from single pool which one by denny clauses, dean and location, professor at economic at the national university of single pul, from johannesburg, which was my rena bureau son, who's a senior research at the institute for global dialogue, at a specialist on the ricks block. and finally, at london, felipe la ground, who was a political economist and full of a special adviser to the director general of the world. trade organization di is the will older, the old world order, close the collapse. i don't think it's so much as close to collapse by itself. it's certainly being question from all sides. the clips that you showed the clips that we heard a few minutes ago with ones that were from what sometimes we think of as the global self. and they were critical of the international economic board. and one of the interesting turnarounds is that today the advanced economy is to reach economies

out, also critical of the international economic order. and how this comes out is going to be really interesting going forward. i don't think that we're gonna have to be thinking about how we, we think categories it might no longer be brakes on global south, west versus east. but more groups of countries that have an adherence to economic performance that dynamic and forward looking too keen to emphasize trade. key to think about building out economic fundamentals in to continue to work with a level playing field. and on the other side, a group of no nations that might have historically had the up ahead. but for whole now growth is in need. and so that it seems to me is the increasing confrontation that will be a challenge to the international economic order. re that would you agree with that?

if the overall order is, is not collapsing right now, the economic central gravity is shifting, isn't it? absolutely, and i mean, part of the fixture, strategic contention is to use that partnership to create windows where they can also change the world and where the search everyone should not be the focus because countries, pragmatic for the forces themselves. but if we look at the institutions specifically from the post world war to order that we characterize the world or the bi multilateralism is and has been under attack. and if you look at the brooks and the values and the statements, but they advocate for rules based order, govern by international law and celebration of multi let's tourism may take for granted that this may be interpreted for one's fine value systems. and so the criticism is that the world is in a constant state of stable and key in the institutions like your

w t. r should be instilling these relevant boundaries to metal acadia and strategic interests. and it's improved really the racist a smaller countries. but magic and middle powers that need to uphold institutional values to build this kind of critical mass that is needed to create a culture of accountability, the people that, that we want to see. so they've, what's going wrong with the institutions that were designed to safeguard the, the old well order of a now defunct. and i think what's changed is the all to the, which is the one that provided. since the who in the early ninety's was based on focus for parents are now crumpled out. the 1st is western economic dominance and assigning a sense um the west is defined as the rest have risen at the 2nd was exceptional period of us a g of physical cabin a. and we now live in an increasingly multi part of weld which is characterized by

3 by 2 political conflicts between still don't us and the rising china assembly as time it was a 150. before that was a belief in our market switch. trump pretty much every say. now, increasingly that is used by national security concerns added the industrial policy policies, not just in the west also and showing there indeed has always been the case. i'm not, but not least of us putting those 2. suppose international rules enter by far the most of the time. i'm not succession for hegemonic power. i'm not, not, that is no longer the case is little because of the united states. it's not the case. i can show it to 900. they were willing to accept, i significant a constraint on very phenomena policy badging. and the actual reason the all the, for the quarter of the big question policy, microsoft was, is it going to make this rich?

and now the key priority is, is it kind of makes is most secure. okay, before we go, any further trade and investment flows, assessing into a new pass is built around the top 2 economies, the us and china, who racing to shape the norms and rules of the world. so you cannot make, i'm political to washington is raising that. he's on badging with investment cubs and trade restrictions. china is redirecting large parts of its economy away from the west toward the developing world coffee, a lopez for the young reports. the world is changing fast and so is the global economic order. trade wars between the us and china are fueling much of the shift foraging new alliances and fracturing old ones. us president joe biden recently issued a new round of tariffs on the gene, affecting about $18000000000.00 worth of chinese products, including electric vehicles, batteries, and semiconductors. bottom line,

i want for our competition with china, not conflict, and we're in a stronger position to win that economic competition. the 21st century is china. that anyone else? china has repeatedly accusing us of bullying and of market protectionism. the drawing board, if the united states persists, china will take resolute and forceful measures to firmly defend itself identity, security, and development to enter the domain slash. and when the rising tensions between the us and china are not new, they 1st escalated, during terms of presidency and have continued since much of the focus now turns to the european union. and who will choose to do business with in the long term. try miss industrial policy, may seem remote as we sit here in this room. but if we do not respond strategically and in the united way, the viability of businesses in both or countries and around the world could be at

risk. china is capitalizing on divisions and a recent visit to serbia president teaching thing established stronger ties with the eastern european country, which has been waiting for e u. membership for over a decade. inches, i strongly finally going home and shop with a joint efforts of both countries, the china for be a free trade agreement, formerly begins in july. sleigh gene is also building stronger ties with around a long time arrival of western governments. the warrant ukraine is another factor, this disruptive energy supplies across europe. and it's also we can ties between russia and the west. spot, strengthen them elsewhere, including parts of africa is open for business and the world comes and

will come. this means partnerships and abilities. it's a battle between 2 super powers with the us and china looking to dominate one economic order, while the race for artificial intelligence, digital technologies, and geo political influence plays out on the world stage. katia lopez again, elda 0 for counting the cost. a new alliance as a pos of the changing world countries with some of the agendas and priorities of clusters into clubs, among them, the bricks nation. so let's take a closer look at the plot. the lead us up for sale, russia, india, and china found at the group in 2009 south africa joined a year later. bricks is designed to be a new global voice. supposing what it sees as a unit latrell approach to g of politics. ricks nations want to change the in balance by creating an alternative to us lead financial institutions. in 2015,

they found that the new development bank, the counter organization, such as the world bank and the international monetary fund. they also aimed to reduce their reliance on the us dollar. bricks represent nearly a 3rd of the global economy and really health of its population. the total g, d, p, and purchasing power parity terms is actually bigger than that of the g 7. the block is growing to the u. a wrong, and if you appear at each, it's joint this year. saudi arabia was invited to join. it's membership is pending, but it's additional only amplify the brooks ambition to become the champion of the global south of rita. to what extent of the bricks, nations, countries like india and brazil to are trading the ways of prosperity right now. reliance upon the old world, all the remaining in tax or is it holding them back? so what's interesting about these 2 countries is that in prison and you're able to

lift bridge, the relationship with the old, old old. and they've also proven to be more flexible and adaptable powers in the international system. so with perks coming into play, the success of bricks is really dependent on the strength of, by my true relationships, as well as the country as an individual power course. but as we've seen brooks towards something like $200.00 meetings a. yeah. and so you have an accelerated growth and political and economic cooperation is constant meeting, which is definitely contributing to their success dining with, with the more nations, a joining clubs coming together to, to, to make the most of the economic cloud. what's the future for the us dollar to say when it remains the dominant currency, the future of the world, reserve currency. the us to all in this case is going to depend on whole range of factors, but likely a higher on that list is set to men and confidence. and often that does not run

parallel with a hand in hand with new fact from the ground who's got the greatest coalition. so that is definitely a space to watch. but i would also be a, maybe a little bit averse to suggesting that the whole world wants to dive into an old tentative will order headed by it on the rich nations, all whichever of the nation. 80 percent of the will list in countries that are not a great power. and for many of us outside of that circle, what do we want to see? principles that going to thinking about how well order can be constructed rather than simply who is where in that coalition on this front, i think that we should be not so oh,

anxious to so quickly a ditch the old will order of globalization and capitalism that would grant ideas there that arguably the most successful of the bricks, nations, china, leverage and leverage successfully. the grand ideas included the notion of how you wanted to organize things, an economically efficient way. you needed to leverage competitive advantage. and countries like china and smaller nations, embrace these ideas powerfully in the process of lifting hundreds of millions of the citizens out of poverty. i don't think that the will need so quickly rushing to an alternative well order until we've really thought through how we can see the current rules based one. i suspect that many of the bricks, nations, when they come down to think about it, i'm not averse to actually holding onto this old will order. but there are many,

was a whole lot trying to pull away from it for the fall, come to just another. but the reason i say, you know that absolutely, i mean the brick, stephanie, do not want to throw everything out the window or, but in terms of pushing for war, especially in terms of trade, you see the, the big conflict between you and our, the nurse show that the world finds itself and, and when you look at the w t r a going with this moment, you have moments of promise, especially and how countries went to work together for the rest of the causes. and how more main some sometimes for broder reform, seen just to fizzle out. but countries are still trying to understand how to understand global supply chains from has major as a major role in this and how it's going to be reconfigured and how the future level comments as well. so guard just special, especially in the context of environmental concerns and a sporadic jump elliptical changes and challenges and the old well being faced with

the failure full of development amongst united the w t or discussions. and the system is katie, not working for everyone, especially because the system suffers from this trust if this, that we've been talking about. but this really drives harm, the desire to global reform, while trying to freely hang on to institutions that may to gauge existing formats and existing forms for life. who brings about this best global reform that and i mean a how, how will it be done? do you see the future of being delta increasingly by, by clubs, like, like, bricks like minded or geographic, the group nations instead of, instead of this global rules based order. i wanted to ask you about about the i m f with an alternative credit is like india and china available right now. what does the m s have a future? once he gets a phone to make a distinction between a desire for

a farrah drive in water, which is what many events visit his thoughts of this program express and indeed are a promise of us are expressed. and one of us likely to happen as a result of the breakdown with the existing order. and i'm only pfeifer of a price of fast. i'm skeptical that the moves currently in play to will ship it to conflict between the us. try adjusting china and the breakdown if it's a national institutions by the top tier is going to lead to the firewall. um yeah, the brakes running but started off as a goldman sachs marketing starting. it was that adopted by the latest with as country. it's not place for me, they haven't had a lot to come in. i was india and i'm showing that richard fiscal arrivals. so maximize the export hasn't sounded tremendously influences some, as a reader said, i have tried to tries to the west as well as twice to china. authors are clearly in

a n t west and i can't because let me see the choice between them. all. that's significant, and in any case they're only um, you know, a small number of countries in a very large world. so i skipped smoothly with the brakes itself. okay. um in terms of a full with the international institutions. um we, i think the sure um is probably the was the most successful institution, all feel well daughter, it was crisis on our way for much actual different position. there was a huge success of printing china in, in 2001. and since the, basically it's ground uh to a stand still, it's increasingly ignored by the us and showing that they've got their own way. the dispute has went back into some of which results to national disease is largely in a best. and i think that's a tragedy. i don't think that's losing to refer well, i think you know, the, the w chevreuse,

which will not fit but which was applied nicely and partially guaranteed equal voice. just more players like guaranteed spanners for pretty much everybody and going to a world or might, might some extra large and small clubs isn't going to make things better than sleep a brief on. so if you can please, how likely is a full blown economic pool, as you say, that with a w t o being toothless right now about how likely is a full blown economic pool between the u. s. and all the west in china? i was supposed to go to see the phone, but um i saw more if uh it depends on the city in taiwan. um to generate i think we are moving to a different world older its, uh, a 2nd comfortable i say a 2nd co cool because this one in which geo products ext trumps economics. and the actual while across, if you'll see the pool, you want a well,

based on open markets from which single pull cars, frustrated and closer to reflect that because you want a fair economic system for which i asked you to benefit. but if the large powers increasing the sides, well actually, uh, industrial policies on national security concerns come 1st. you need a sort of power to accommodate yourself. how to those positions, and some which is one to. so i'm gonna choose another. and so i'm gonna try to struggle $5.50 not be forced to choose done it. i'll wait in a new code. what are we in an era of nationalization weiss, relation to some d globalization isn't? well i, i hear that language a lot. and obviously, you know, philip has made a very compelling case for this. i happen to disagree, i think, said we need to pull back from the language that says this is a cold war. and maybe focus on the idea that really the,

the part of contention here if you can nomic and that we conflate the issue is when we talk about coal, we're even indeed when we talk about security and during the regional coal, americans would genuinely worried there's a sylvia to building a political and economic system that would come to mind the american way of life, destroyed the american. we have government now today, however much one looks at the bullying behavior of the chinese aggressive exporting actions of the south china sea military build it up. i don't think anyone in their right minds would accuse china of trying to build an economic system. that is a plug in replacement for westman style liberals. democracy truth, the truth be told, i don't think she didn't thing really care said oh, what kind of political system the west wants to run. what he wants to do is to bring about economic prosperity in a way that hughes as much as he can to the original rules based order. and right

now the nations that um, most pulling away from that system are not the emerging countries are not the ones that felt previously challenged by the international economic system. the, the washington consensus type of economic system. but instead, the risk countries and you know the language about it's being no secure, the competition. unfortunately, rings a lot of the only era, lot of competition with the soviet union for which the competition was not we can all make. but of us competition with japan. a lot of the language about, you know, depend, uh, economic superiority, threatening undermining us. security is a quote today and the peculiar thing and all of that is that japan and all of that time was probably a liberal democracy, dependent. all of that time was strong partner of america in america's uh,

strategic alliance in the pacific. so my own sense is that, you know, when we get in to talk about security, talk about the cold war, we might be taking our eye off of the real competition. okay. which isn't economic one, which is that, you know, some countries in the world, the feeling that china is um, undermining dismantling the in industrial structure, stealing the jobs, engaging in and the program that will lead to the taking control of technology. so the future, any comics the right way to deal with that is not to shotwell. and then we have to say bill security, but to pick one stuff up, raise your own productivity, train your people, get to a point where you can compete. i'm sorry, it's up to just to cut you off, but the time is, is against us. i want to have one last time from arena. are you optimistic about

the future arena? can the huge reductions and pull this he brought about by globalization and imperfect though it was the, the old world or the continue without says, i think it's always possible to be up to mistake about the future. um, especially it's, it depends who's viewing this kind of future. if we look at the coal for alternative anything, alternative, finance sources, alternate to payment systems, there is a demand for an economy, but presents all advocates for different menus. and if we were just to, to look at, at a chinese learning, there's an example or in those lines as an example of it's, it's, it's interesting to note that in the long run, maybe they're not as cheap as i'm a single bank. but they're attractive because i mean, especially with the chinese, like they come with grace period 5 to say yes,

big countries can start repaying them politically. this is where it's high. the practical for a sitting government. i says, repayment doesn't begin until the end of the 10, possibly, and store your, the desire to have something different to have an alternative to and leverage that in terms of, of who is finding who i think that is that is an interesting time. we find ourselves and, and it is more about the smaller powers finding a way to leverage this moment to pull themselves to find their agency in that the, we must leave it. we're out of time. many sites in the dining cloth arena, bureau, son and phillip le girl dots our show for this week. if you'd like to comment on anything you've heard in our discussion, i'm at a friend again on x. use the hash tag h a c t c. if you remember, or you can drop us a line causing the cost of how to 0, don't let us on e mail address, as always, there's plenty more few online, but i'll just do

a dot com slash c t. c. that takes you straight to the page, that you'll find individual reports, links at a time episodes to catch up. but that's it for this edition of cash and the cost on a tree instead of going from the team here and go have thanksgiving with us. the news on al jazeera, this next of african stories from african perspectives to say, i am a creative at heart 3 short documentary spy african filmmakers from nigeria, south africa, and zambia. i like my children, i like the middle school in lead business to a sion of slaves and we are all the same as the forest women of i've seen from the cape and a dream worth chasing. a new series of africa direct on algebra. a sense of belonging, we always look for ways to be together and be every day heroes,

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