a good enough question. why have limits like this? let denise, this is your mind. it's area of relief foundation the i carry johnston. tell you how the top story is on the i'll just hear guitar, e, egyptian, on us leaders have quotes because a cx 5 talks to assume on august 15th, and the joint statement. they propose to host them and either the or car and said it's, it's time to conclude a ceasefire agreement. there's where the government has band, i'll just hear from reporting in israel, so i'm definitely reports now on the is really reaction from jordan's capital m a is really prime minister benjamin netanyahu, his office releasing his statement, confirming that in his really delegation will be dispatched to meet with mediators

in either cairo or doha, on august 15th and what's now being widely considered as a last ditch effort to secure a ceasefire deal. now family members of is really cap dues have spoken out upon receiving the news of this statement that was signed by the 3 heads of stay from the united states. but that's an egypt saying that the time for a ceasefire deal is now that benjamin netanyahu should be able to offer up concessions during these meetings in order to bring the some $110.00 is really captives back from gaza. is ready for us as a buttons to schools sheltering the space palestinians, east of goza city. at least 16 people have been killed. a number of people are missing and believe to be buried under their level highest. and an official say is very forces of hits more than $170.00 shelters. since then we'll be gone for the dates has been set for the 1st presidential election debate between cala send that donald trump. the 2 candidates have agreed to attend advised face off in september,

and trump has proposed 2 more debates before election day. but the news conference in florida, trump blame terrace for the migration across the same policies would be dangerous. she's not doing any news conference, you know why she's not doing it because she can't do a news conference. she doesn't know how to do a news conference. she's not smart enough to do a news conference, and i'm sorry we need smart people to leave this country because our country's never been in this danger before, both economically and from an outside. from an outside perspective, russia doesn't respect us any more shy that doesn't respect us any more. north korea kim jungling liked me. a lot of details are like this group we, we are in great danger with great change of being in world war 3. that could happen and while calling on harris has been competing in the state of michigan speaking to union members, that true measure of the strength of a leader is not based on who you beat down. it's based on who your list

and you know, this version that happened in our commentary in the last several years. where there is a suggestion that somehow strength is about making people feel small, making people feel alone. what is that? the very opposite of what we know, unions now to be strength. it's about the collective. it's about understanding no one should ever be made to fight alone. protest as a 4th with police and 10 years capital. during the demonstrations quoting on the president's winning route to resign. the police side tear gas and arrested several demonstrations during the rest beginning to against the finance. that res, texas street protests had continued in spite of multiple concessions by moved over

the past and not protest is also demanding justice for more than 60 people killed during finance, police crackdown residence. so if it rushes across the region have been leaving the homes, offer an incursion, volume training troops. russian state tv shows, footage of people packing their belongings. the reports that russians civilians came on the phone while driving on the roads in the region. most coast, as hundreds of ukrainian forces pushed into russian territory on tuesday. fixing low on the order is top priority for bangladesh as new interim leader. but how many units has been sworn enough to weeks of audit crackdowns on student for testers? nobel laureate, takes charge off to a long time permanence to shake, has seen that resigned and set to india as all the headlines. and these continues of to head to head the

it is a little flight until we destroy from us as military capabilities. and it's rolled in gaza and bring all our hostages all since how mazda is attack on october, the 7th. as well as being a waste of the gaza strip. tens of thousands killed at least where the government now to use the committing genocide. we looked at the history of the conflict. tell us about how we thought here. my guess tonight is the famous. the provocative is really historian. benny morris is well documented. many of the crime is committed by as well in 1948, but his critics say he now justifies those crimes. i made the hudson and i'm here in london's legendary free speech society conway hole, to go head to head with benny morris. i'll challenge him on

a support for the war m garza and i'll ask you more, he thinks accusations of genocide or absurd. tonight i'll be joined by a panel of experts down the leaving a full ma is really peace negotiator and president of the us mid least project deanna booth to the products to be a lawyer and former advisor to the yellow and the manual and of on. and is really electra of diplomatic studies at tel aviv university. the funny morris thank you for joining me on a head to head. you are a supporter, a defender of israel's current, warren garza, which began and its current form off to the atrocities on october. the 7th, which is since killed, more than 38000 palestinians, including 15000 children,

displaced more than a 1000000 people made cause uninhabitable to the un and is being investigated as a possible genocide at the international court of justice. a lot of people around the world think it's a genocide. i happen to think it's a genocide, but you have cool that accusation upset why to? well, i once investigated a real genocide by muslim trucks against the christian communities of turkey around a year, 1900. some 2000000 christians were killed at the time by muslim turks. and that's what the genocide actually looks like. what's happening in gauze is a war to war in which there are a lot of collateral in this a, among a gardens. the worst started, of course, by the come us from guys up in a jobs the massacre in on october 7th. and the only way to respond to that than any country would have responded to that more or less than the same fashion. i think

for us to try and go after the saw some us, but the, some us was embedded in the population as you know, to use the schools, the, the schools of the hospitals as bases as places where they stock their munition, their guns themselves hid in tunnels underneath the schools in apartment buildings, and this all involves collateral damage, which of course, the from us knew it was going to ignite by killing it. $1200.00 is really is on the 7th of october. i myself have problems with the war as it's being waged, but the genocide is definitely p as in the am here is not to kill as many palestinians. i saw the definition of genocide. you wrote a book on genocide, the definition of traits, one of the definition it's not find kills not based on number of different. it's also based on intent and on yes or just based on the intent. yes, there's no story to kill in whole or in part there's no intent to your stuff as far as i understand. i'm not i'm, i just want to just say, i'm not, i'm not, i'm not

a government spokesman. you seem to be, i'm not sending me is a government. how do i know they're presenting the you and i asked a few of you and what i didn't say anything will come to them. i'm just asking about your view right now. the definition of genocide you wrote a book on it is nothing to do with how many people you can. so it's not a numbers game. it's also a numbers game. the i see, see, chief prosecutors off for arrest warrants, not just for hamas leaders, but for these really prime minister and the defense minister for war crimes and crimes against humanity. and he says, you have mountains of evidence. we've all seen with our own eyes. these raised in gaza, committed war crimes on camera kill on people who are carrying white flags. flo up apartment buildings dropped to 1000 pound bombs on crowded refugee comes time. we at least agree, man, even if we're going to disagree on genocide, the israel is committed. numerous of all crimes, since dom oswell crowns on october. the 7th. i'm fairly sure that'd been well. crimes the toward itself is not a war crime as the some us attack on israel, on the 7th october was it was a little crime from beginning to end. the aim was to kill as many civilians as possible,

which they did in accordance with the how much charter which is to kill basically every jew you can get hold of in palestine. but i didn't ask about the game. i asked about the facts that are being committed. as i said, probably they have been as an oil wars war crimes. you may have to be more correct . yes. so you would support an arrest warrant for benjamin that know that just to say that why, especially if it hasn't been in the rest bar and that there's been a requirement from the prosecutor so far they haven't issued i don't know if you can hold the prime minister responsible with a sergeant that kills several unarmed people intentionally. you don't think these ready f was bombing apartment buildings refugee come small says is cemeteries hospital earful if someone of us these library. honestly, it hasn't bombed, as far as i know, hospitals are they have it's packed you know, there are no expert agrees with you on that. that's not, that's not true. what you're saying is not true. the only hospital which i remember being on was by a rock, it's final night, is make jihad, oh my mistake. oh my god,

i remember. so the draw has read is almost because let me, let me, let me, let me told israel has read his hospitals with infantry. let me ask you to come us a people in there. how must headquarters inside hall rentals? i'm there also. i believe we've never seen the headquarters to benjamin that know what a beautiful bundle movie video, but we've never actually seen that from underneath. i'll ship to being several months was still waiting for that. so on the 31st of october, according to human rights watch as role, is there any forces unlawfully attacked? a 6 story residential building can a $106.00 civilians, including $54.00 children without warning full strikes completely. dom always human rights were from no evidence of amended to talking in the vicinity, making a strike unlawful, indiscriminate under the law of miles is brand new authorities. it provided no justification for the how must always hides in their own killing. me is really didn't say that they were hiding in the apartment building. i know you said you don't want to just spoke to them and know you're offering a better different the government and i, i don't know. i don't know the particulars of that particular that it could be that

there was a war crime committed there. it could also be that the hundreds of come us fights was in the building and was like along side you would be, you the okay, so the have you ever seen for the district? wait, have you ever seen flips coming out with the goal is to say, which shows how much fighter lit? have you ever seen that? how much all you see a simply any findings the the senior john list? yeah. hi. my name is aaron jones and guess what? we're not allowed in by these are and they are highly are great, we should allow people in your room. let me tell you something about this really air force if we're talking about each mission of this really air force is probably the most accurate and the efficient arm of this really military is checked before and by a lawyer, it sets up to see if i'm, if there are actual a, is there evidence there? actual evidence on so glad you're pointing out because it's not a robot operation. it goes all the way up. so we count indictment and yahoo for these attacks because it's gone off the china come on. so we agree.

you say it's not genocide, can we at least agree that is the genocidal rhetoric and genocidal intent from various members of these by the government. we agreed that the rhetoric from the yahoo and has all and smote rich. it's this is genocide or after some of the ministers, i'm not sure about hotel quotes and i'm not sure about what nathaniel has said that somebody knows that i'm elect many, you know the, i don't know if that's the same as genocide. the shooting, every man, woman and child, i the don't cheese, you're good. and then listen to something something really there's something absorbed above this line of questioning. israel was intent on genocide. it's. can you like me to hold on? can you let me speak? would you let me talk? can you let, didn't you let him speak just guy? this guy's guy is we are going to have to stop the entire show and you will have to go home. if we do not have some order so many, please finish your point. if there was

a genocidal intent in the war making in the gaza, there would be not 30 solid since all so as incidentally, these numbers are all issued by how much we don't know how to, how true they are. but if there was genocide within 10 by these really governments with these really military machines to commit genocide in gaza, that would not be $30000.00 or $20000.00. and that would be hundreds of thousands of thousands. i'm sure that's, i'm not sure what that is. for that's is called genocide, and that's not what's happening by any we really discuss. that's not the definition of genocide, but okay, let me ask you to know what your definition. the only thing for the genocide convention is different, but at it for now 1948. i like to mention lots of different things that's not carry by 71 because only 19040. and just to mention that sounds the magic, there's only one. there's only one truth to come, us truth sound the same as the 1948, just like you mentioned how much are they? is everything and i'm off. but if there's a genocidal side in this, okay, back to it is how much. okay, let me ask you this just to look at the charter,

read the words there, reads what it says about other way of saying 10 money by the way to, to the jews. i mean that's what many i bought from. i've interviewed people from us . i've asked about the child, i'm interviewing you, right? i don't, i want to tell you it's a nice to talk to you. i'm sure they do. is there any minister dicks? i remember the security cabinet. he said, we're not rolling out the guns and that he was referring to the next. but the catastrophe of 1948 when an estimated 700000 palestinians were driven from their homes. you famously documented a lot of that back in the eighty's. you undermined a lot of his already propaganda that they just play sled on their own. so whether it's the 1948, not cool with the 2020 people gauze or not, but the quote i'd like to for palestinians. zionism is not, but it is ethnic cleansing, surely you will. people can recognize that i'm not sure i can recognize that. no. yeah, you keep putting words in my mouth. a design isms and templates to establish as a jewish state in the area. quote, palestine is the land of israel. initially. design is wanted to establish

a jewish state on the whole land of israel or oil of palestine. 19371938 design and some change and said we can have all of the land. there are lots of palestinians here. let's share it with the palestinians. the 1937, the british appeal commission, proposed the partition of palestine between the 2 peoples living and it's the palestinian said no and continued the war against britain and design this design and said yes to the partition proposal him by po, the international community repeated the ideals of the partition of palestine between the jews and the arabs. in 1947 november the famous resolution 181. the jews said yes to the un partition. resolution of 1947 accepting it. they would get some of the palace find the palestinian arabs will get the part. and the palestinian said no and started shooting the next day, killing jews. so he's one of the reasons i wanted to interview you because because

i know some of the history you do know some of the has finally said they all share . but the problem is, i don't know which many more as i'm speaking to because you're saying they wanted to share the land. and yet i have a book here that says on the most basic level, jewish colonization ment, expropriation and displacement design, it's audiology and practice with necessarily an element to lead expansionist zionism was a colonizing an expansionist ideology. that's right there by you any more than. and i think i did you, i really really into the when i agree with every word in there, but as i said, desires and change the subjective and go in the 19 thirties and the greens reluctantly a mat resigned to the idea of partitioning the land. and from that point, them designed as a number of times in 3747, the 2008 proposed partitioned in palestine with the palestinians. and the

palestinians, consistently, i have rejected the condition on the how much the palestinians, okay. and on the pillow top the hutch, what are the oh wait, let me check about this. let me ask you this, the truth, luxury basic. okay. of the conflict. okay. sign is the only money. let me on the course on a swimming to compromise and what kind of simians always say no, no, yes, go ahead. i wanna read a quote. uh yes, you keep saying lots of positive stuff today, sharing, dividing. i wanna read the quote to you. there are circumstances in history. yes, but justify ethnic cleansing is that is not a quote from somebody on the last of it. yes. that is on a quote from a london my defines no quote. yeah. yeah. i don't know your critical, you know, next you're no longer just document ethic, lindsey, you apologize, what is the context of what i put what you're going to try to do the context as you're asked you condemn what they did in 1948 sinus militias. you say no, you're all state perpetrated ethnic cleansing. you say there was circumstances in history that justify ethnic plan. what was the circumstance i'm talking about you say, i know that this time is that sometimes i'm reading or quotes. i know that this time

is completely negative when the choices are things up. think lindsay and genocide. yes. you're not elation of real people. i personally the cleanser. so the jews understood in $48.00 the jews were on the trip of the night. elation by the arabs, and that's in my view. and legitimize justified cleansing arabs from palestine with seducer pressing with best buy a 2nd genocide after the 90 genocide, the who to said exactly the same thing about they we pulled in 1994. they were talking about the diamond. no, they said we can absolutely transaction because they're threatening us. no, i don't really have a diagnostic things. no the right, i didn't say threatening. i said the odds of follow spun attacks. the jewish community empower style from 1947 to other than just say like when they would go and they would justify it. what if i'm a crime against humanity? ethnic cleansing is not regarded as a law crime by any a you'll find with it. it's not about a fine, it's not the 100. and then when i pull,

i prefer ethnic cleansing of the other to being that massacred a my, my own people. yes. sure. even if that involves innocent people being driven for them to not ask to come this, if you, if you are on how does that fit? i just wanted to show them that the current bill, of course is i just want to know your mix, your mixing up the, the, the times the chronology designs were willing to share the land. the arabs said no, the arabs of pack them. and from that point on the jews to defend themselves properly, they would have to drive out the arabs in certain areas a from which the arabs were attacking the jewish. and so it was, it was already about to say, in the heat of all, it wasn't ideological, it was pragmatic. even though you're yourself say the transfer was inevitable and in, built in design isn't yours. it depends. it depends. what do you mean by transfer attends from what you mean by transfer? you're the one you're from? it depends. no, no, no. it depends what parts of the population were talking about. total transfer. it

was never in the parts of zion. this partial transfer a partial transfer from areas in which the jews wanted to establish the state and part of palestine and from which the arab, she was a busy effecting the jews. okay. i want to bring in the panel before i do, a lot of talk about with design is i'm is a form of colonialism. if i said to use on is, i'm is something colonial. what would you say to that? i would say the some partial truth in it, but in the on large it's wrong. it's not the correct interpretation. there's a feeling of those words. he wrote a letter to assess or wrote the found or wrote easier and in, baldwin. he said it's something colonial office, so maybe take it out with ok. i can take it up with or to. okay. her to may have said that in order to may he did say in great shape. no, no into in, in, in an effort to ingratiate himself with the great, colonizer a rhodes. it's possible a that, that's not the point. and the point is the sound in the 800 design, the don't allow me to finish them. i do believe they're usually, they're continually just going to design tenuously interrupt, please find to do what tim trump did to bite. wow. and then what do you know?

what are some of these for you? but it's a, you know, more time saying that the events of his sentences, zionism intended to liberate the jews from the an alien nation and oppression in under which they lived in a eastern europe. also later, central europe, by a stablish in a state of the jews, but the majority of jews, as jews ruling over themselves, they ended up, they ended up in, in part to realizing that through dream act, expensive palestinians, this is correct. okay. what happened is it turned out we'll end on a point of agreement bringing a panel. we have down a boot, who is a palestinian lawyer, and israel from adviser to the p l. o. at emmanuel nevada is an international relations electro. tel aviv university, daniel levy is the form. is there any piece negotiated present of us, middle east peace project, piano, i'm interested in hearing what you have about the genocide. then we started the show to what i've done is i bet anybody out of it because it's absurd. there's many definitions. you're in the way. what do you make of the funny is exactly what i

expect him to be, which is a genocide deny or an a genocide apologist. every human rights organization has been defining this as a, as a genocide, we have the i c j that has come out and said that there is plausible case for genocide and yet worship. believe he is rarely is the only people who say that it isn't a genocide. israel is allowed to be a colonizer, is there, i was allowed to do with it, please is. and that house to me is just have to sit by idly and take it. and this is the fundamental problem with design as a, but we tell us citizens are the ones who feel zionism on our bodies. we've paid for it with our lives. we paid for it with our land. this attempt to re define zion as a, we'll go nowhere because, you know, and the nice of the, the am i know you're into that's relations as well. is there a recognition that a lot of the world world governments, allies of israel,

as well as the usual human rights groups, are very critical at a minimum the way that as well as the prosecutor, what's going on and doesn't as well. first of all, diana said we're feeling designers and you're right, you're feeling it because the only place in the middle east where arabs are free is israel. and so i'm afraid of that. you have diana is because the only country in the middle east where there is freedom is the state of israel from which you benefit. and you should be thankful for it. i am not the only the only country, the only country in the middle east. what else can elect the officials be elected? the judges of the supreme court be present at the university. the only free country in the middle east is read and if you want to respond to that, i find it staggering. the gentleman to my right is telling the palestinian citizen of israel how she is experiencing the reality under which she lives it's. it's

a staggering moment for me. now. you know, there was different strands designed as okay. there was a cultural design is i'm, that was a by nationals, i lived in this could have gone in different directions from the perspective of 202475 plus years in the idea that this is just something but 9 doesn't match with the reality that has been live now i would say it's clear what this has been full palestinians, but i would argue it's not doing what was written on the tin for jews is all i don't think either is really jewish or local jewish safety is best served by the actions we see day in day out, steve jobs, if you like to respond to what you've heard from the panel. i think there's a misunderstanding here. there is a separation between israel and the westbank israel and the occupied territories largely populated by just palestinians,

a and the state of israel. in israel itself, there is a rule of law. there is generally equality the between the jews and the arabs. and you miss representing it when you say that they are persecuted and he's damn right . and but he says, all the arab states are dictatorships which do not allow their citizens any freedom and is really arabs enjoy most of the rights they may be discriminated against. and certain things that they may may enjoy shifting rights, which jews do not have, for instance, not serving 3 years, wasting 3 years in the army, for example, is really out of the don't we don't want to know that yes, it's fine. yeah, sorry. what is your most policies a desperate disobedience really mean if you're, i'm sorry, i'm unfamiliar right? for our leave. your house should be do in free 1967 zionism in israel. it was not the colonial enterprise in the west bank, there is a colonizing and colonial framework, which is even the part tied like in its actual workings. but in prince 1967 israel

. that was not the case. and for the 1st 100 years or so design isn't, it wasn't a colonial venture. it wasn't on a venture of an extension of an imperial. let me just define colonialism since you're so busy defining genocide. imperialism and colonialism were unmatched together in which imperial and empire sent its children to dominate and take over a 3rd world country and exploit. this rich is not the real business line. until 1967, you might have to agree with benny that there was a colonial aspect in the pop toddler aspect to the occupied westbank. no zionism is a national liberation movement that freed its line from arab muslim colonialism. how is your thing is lamb expanded itself from the our peninsula to indonesia, from indonesia to morocco, not from the holy spirit. this was conquest and colonialism. okay. we are out of

time. i'm going to give you on the last web before we go take a break. okay, so now we have a net cloud, did i or, and an a power out design, as well as a janet size and i or genocide, apologise. the points of the matter is that palestinians have always paid the price for israel's colonial adventures. my family hales for hundreds of years from palestine. and what happened in fort 1948 was my family was ethnically cleansed from palestine, where from many, fell from an immediate and never able to return back to their pet to their home. my father died unable to return back to his village. the cause of the colonialism that is called zion as if that is it for paul, one old head to head without special guest anymore and pump too. we'll be talking about what is happening inside of is ready society. we talk a bit more about bending. morris is views, i'm gonna hear from, well, i was gonna say patient audience, they've gone away all, but then also i patient tonight. that's important to have head to

the as the pulse of o celebrates the 25th anniversary of nato's intervention that ended the fighting between the serbian and cause of albany and force. we were meant to be completely ethnically, cleanse people are power, examines the posts for landscape, and present the challenges for the regions youngest country. this is a vibrant nation state that is alive today because we took no attraction as possible the making of a states on that. just the utah sears from. i'll just say around on the go and meet tonight out is there is only mobile app. is that the, this is where we fix allies from out is there is a mobile app available in your favorites apps to just set for it and typed on

a new app from out to 0 new at you think is it the carrier johnston and the type stores on alex's here, that's already egyptian on us leaders have cool for goes a cx 5 talk to resume on august 15th, in a joint statement. they propose to host them and either don't or colorado and said it is time to conclude the ceasefire agreement with these very government has banned. i'll just hear from reporting and as well. so how does so, who reports now on the is ready reaction from jordan's capital a month is really prime minister benjamin netanyahu, his office releasing a statement, confirming that in his really delegation will be dispatched to meet with mediators

in either cairo or doha. on august 15th and what's now being widely considered as a last ditch effort to secure a ceasefire deal. now family members of this really kept is have spoken out upon receiving the news of this statement that was signed by the 3 heads of state from the united states. but an egypt saying that the time for a ceasefire deal is now that benjamin netanyahu should be able to offer up concessions during these meetings in order to bring the some $110.00 is really captive back from gaza. this is ready for us as a bomb to, to school. salesman displaced palestinians, east of garza city. that is 16 people have been killed. a number of people are missing and believe to be buried under the rubble. palestinian officials say is very forces of hit more than 170 shouts has since the war began. the date has been set for the 1st presidential election debates between common iris and donald trump . the 2 candidates have agreed to attend advise,

based off on september 10th send. trump has proposed 2 more to pates before election day protested says 4th place in kenya as capital during demonstrations. quoting on that present route to resign. at least 5 tier gas and arrested several demonstrators during the rest, the beginning june against the finance bill that raised taxes. street protests have continued in spite of multiple concessions by re to the past month. how many units as been sworn in as bonds with dishes, you enter in the leader of 2 weeks of funding. crackdowns on student protest is nobela lawyer takes charge off to a long time. a prime minister shake has seen it resigned and fled to india. those all the headlines and these continues have, oh no, it just you know, off to head to head the

welcome back to head to head on out to the english. i'm with my guests. benny morris, one of israel's most famous historians. we have a panel of experts and we have a live audience here in london is conway hole, who will be hearing from shortly spending morris in paul, one of the show we argued you and i about a genocide of ethnic cleansing about the mac. but can we start putting to benny by agreeing both of us on something that israel seen in recent is a pretty serious, severe, brazen shift to the right. some would say fall right with the likes of bizarre low smote rich and it's not been good. we're in the cabinet, a lot of fanatical stuff lives inciting violence in the occupied westbank, according to some polls. 60 percent of his really do say it's better for that to be segregation between the 2 societies. 48 percent according to one point of view as it goes, supported the expulsion of policy and incidence visit. what is going on in his role is relas turned definitely to the right. it's partly to do a demography more religious people,

a born in more than secular people. a i would say also unfortunately most far the people are born the michigan as the secular people. i would say that in addition to the demographic shift, which is taking place in the last 203040 years in continuous arab terrorism and our reluctance to reach a compromise, as also driven his release to the right. you're also being critical of default, right in his role as we just have to say very critical. you've cooled netanyahu, cowardly, and incompetent. but you yourself are being criticized by some on the left button is around and abroad for your own views. and i just want to, to get through some of them with you because you've said what many would say a racist things about palestinians. arabs, muslims, you've called them barbarians. you've said they have no marlene admissions. you said they want to be caged. you've said palestinian citizens of israel or time them a 5th call them. oh yeah. yeah. i'm sorry. of the, i mean i goes to just, i know, but the audience me to all the time you say you're

a liberal and you believe in the peace process? a lot of problems to me would say, how do we make peace with people who say that liberals on is and they think of us in this way? scratch the credit question of quoting out of context which you are indulging in those who blew up buses and in restaurants in israel. during the 2nd intifada, i'm talking about both come us and felt the terrorists in a i quoted barbarians and they'd be awesome. and i did school, no, no, i called them barbarians and they behaved like barbarians. cool. no, i didn't. you did the inherits? no, no. the arrow bold as it is today is bob berry, that's true. barrel grove. i didn't say the whole arabs about very, as i said, the arab world is barbarian and it's b r as well. well, better look at syria where the regime killed about half a 1000000 people in its civil war, trying to suppress an uprising. look at them with the arabs, so busy killing a blacks and dar for looking for libya with their killing each other. the true

booms of funeral corsages, look at the rack. they behave like barbarians. if somebody said to you, and i would say this is on to somebody. if somebody said to you the jews of omarian's, the jewish world as barbarian, i think you would agree that sunday somebody. and if somebody said, well, i know behind me cuz i'm just talking about the ideas. i don't think it would be anti semitic would be false. that's that you don't think you'll be under somebody. i mean, as a jewish world is marian before, not, not necessarily on some if and when you say these really arabs are a time bomb and there are potential 5th column. this, all of them you didn't say some terrace. i said it was or what is earl's our a minority a which identifies in large measure with the palestinian cause is in the long historical perspective a potential time bomb. yes, i would agree with that. you said there are potential 5th column for us that the potential 5th column. yes. an emissary of the enemy that isabella, this is vicious start and i, i don't remember the using the word and to be able to whether you remember it,

well no is irrelevant. you said the slide is this slide into complete, publish pronunciation has made them an emissary of the enemy. that is, among us is your, is your of the 2nd intifada when the were riots by is really arabs blocking of roads, etc. and they behaved like an emissary of the enemy. this is correct. so it depends on the context you keep quoting things without explaining the context. i'm not sure there was any context for dismissing an and taught people as a physical. nobody is ok. so, all right, let's talk about some of the views of fuels which are somewhat controversial. many would say you're not just somebody is that some, you don't really want any facts from you need any explanations of anything. you just explain to them very well. it's a wrong do you know your trauma, so you just want to accuse no accusing. i have to go out and i cannot hear somebody . this isn't really an interview. this is a basically bleeding throwing and, and in the 3rd ation, you don't like defending your he's, i don't like defending my use. i'm able to defend my views, which are they come up with these quotations which are out of context of the don't

explain this, the article context, everything the audience doesn't understand what you're talking about. i just sort of the quote and then the read the and while you're better racist which you readings at the beginning when you to use this. so yeah, you said when you okay, does he hasn't somebody else you said you said when your mother in your hall larger numbers, it's not a matter of money referring to palestinians. israel, it's the societies nature. yes, i would say that the racist comments an entire system during the address and ensuring the 2nd then default was set in 2019 but not in the 2nd intifada. as somebody told if you can't remember, when you said things in 2019, you said this is not about this is what we're talking about. murder is the society's nature. you're of who the motor rates in israel. you said, oh, explained to the audience what we're talking, i'm sorry to bring you the you said that minute the society exclaimed, let me explain what was going on in the murder rates by is really arabs of their fellow people, basically not of jews, but the fellow arabs is much,

much higher. it's about a 100 or 200 percent higher than the murder rate among jews. the same applies and so that is the killing of women. is the same applies to on the, on, on the murders which are called the honor killings. when women shows too much league or looks at the man the wrong way, this is unfortunately inherent in arab societies, in general, in the middle east, and among his really arabs as well. that's the context might my part of the context . so making sweeping say no, that's true, let me off the race. let me off the, let me you are a race we will we're, we're in the assistance with your race. is it true race to get? the reason is actually a race is we're talking about the time you said the right amount. i will tell me i don't want to happening community and gauge when we talk kind of about what i'm talking to will come to the already. okay. what am i coming to one last when you can do what you, i'm having last question. it's a, it's a free country. as i say,

let me ask you, this is not just the racism that you've been accused of. you're also being accused of woman. you just recently wrote a hearts color in june. we use that israel should consider a new king it wrong to prevent them from acquiring nuclear weapons. not even benjamin netanyahu has said that you've said where he's more responsible as a prime minister. so your irresponsible? yes. i mean, you can get into that country, that is not felt certain in the article. you misquote, everything you said i own was for everything you say it was a quest. so tell say what, what the context is place is destroying the reunion, the nuclear facilities. that's the continue. yes. within nukes but not destroying you around. as you just said, i said, you think dropping a new come around would have limits not only around on your small nuclear, bombs can destroy facilities like not funds. and you know, that i knew if not, i mean you've been advocating for 15 years. well, i've been advocating is released and is really strike against the iranian nuclear project. because around says that it's policy is to destroy israel. if the avenue they ever achieve nuclear weaponry is role will be in mortal you and say that you

said both of them that you something no, no, no, no, no, no, no. in 2000 i, you're not telling the truth. you know that you didn't go for the new, you didn't come for nuclear spike in 2000 a on or on? no, i didn't. you run a $1008.00. i said, israel, it should destroy the iranian nuclear installation with a nucleus. right? no, i didn't say this is my problem financing. so of course, you know, we're no, no, no, no, i don't. new york time on july, the 18th, 2008 and is really nuclear strike to prevent the uranium from taking the final steps towards getting the bump is probable. i didn't said support. as i said, it's probable you said the other thing is letting tyrone have its bomb. it was very clear what you're talking about has now explain what is real, does not have this part of its policy in the doesn't the nouns as it's policy, the destruction of duran duran does say that it's policy is to destroy as well. and they are working digital diligently to get nuclear weapons. and if the iranians do achieve nuclear weapons, israel a will be basically will be finished. that's the,

that's ok, radians or email. let me i'm using a nuclear new tactical nuclear weapons to destroy the radian nuclear installations . before they achieve nuclear weaponry, make sense to me may not make sense of you just because you're not. this is in his really she don't care. but a, i'm assuming being so i care about nuclear. i don't know what they care about. i don't know about, well, you just assumed. let me go to a panel here. we have the on a bluetooth process to be annoying. israel from advisor to taylor. we have daniel levy. a for me, is there any piece negotiated the us be at least project? we have a manual yvonne who is the international relations director at tel aviv university . i'm gonna go to bring you in 1st since we got started early, a potential 5th column. this is exactly the problem is that he's a racist 2 thousands these racist views. that's the problem with israel, israel's, this is a side society, a country that is based on this idea of jewish supremacy and anything that they do or say goes, which means therefore that as

a post and in who lives in that country who is not enjoying any benefits of so called democracy, they get to a 1000 tell me how i feel. they get to make statements like we are a 5th column and they actually treat palestinians as though they are assist called . it's very important, matthew, for people to understand that israel came to us is we didn't immigrate to israel. israel's a colonial movement, and as a colonial movement is aimed, is to not only get rid of palestinians, but it's too tight to transform the entire placed race. and replace, okay, the manual, i wanna ask you if you recognize the 5th, the penny was agreeing on at the start of the segment about what's happening inside of is rarely inside. well, allow me to respond to the to said she's not telling the truth. once she's nice thing is not true. first of all, in the jewish country, i mean there are over a 190 states in the world. most of them of nation states. it still is about

supremacy. it is about national south, different termination and freedom. now we didn't come to you the way this is our land. no, it's easy to do. it was at this stage was the entire family didn't finish this point in it. okay. first of all, when you say we've been there for hundreds of yours, the world, palestine, it's an invention of british colonialism. the van to the 1920, it did not exist under the ottoman empire again. so 9, when does it start the story start? it's an, it's a colonial invention. so when you said palestine and you can even pronounce it in our because there's no p and our over the, i'm going to bring you back to my question, then move on. what do you make of those alo, smoke tricks and hit ma, get been given? referring to arabs and the most deem humanizing risk? are you going to deny that as well? like every society we have or the stream is okay. it's

a democracy. i don't agree with them, but we have like every society we have our experience and you're in government. yes . what i didn't vote for this government. i wish they were not in the gulf. okay. daniel hasn't spoken daniel leaving. when i was in design, this youth movement, i'm president of the world unit, your students being pumped with the talking points in the propaganda points. i really think they were more sophisticated and i may be misremembering this high candle, genuinely cannot be lee. the vcs will now, constituents, and these really attempt at defending, i'm putting your best foot forward, but then i look at the reality in his role today. and of course, that's what it should look like. because watch the reality. we're living it. and let me take 2 snapshots. first of all, it's really not that surprising that we've got to this point when you consider the impunity with which the external community and these roles allies from the west

and the us treat is ro, despite the lead to me, the entire spectrum of violations of international law and of human rights, and yet every time there is an excused as a b to a united nation. then there's more opposite in that respect. don't expect is raised to come up with back to talking points when they don't have to because you're willing to run couple of put them into break complete either on the phone. book 3 people in the panel, 2 of whom are pro palestinian empty zion is that's the purpose of it. yes, that is supposed to be 2 against one. we don't know that we do what you've organized. yes, we did ask you to watch the show before they made it myself pretty no, not a time to state. oh no, the the

again the come just to to know that let's go around the audience. we're going to try and see where we've got some hands up. we're going to go to the gentleman, he said, wrote the jacket on the just if you could say something more familiar. the rarity perspective, in terms of the threat by science from us, and these moments movement, which is patient as fluid to produce as well, that's what it says, it is, jobs a. net, or for both chocolate. if you could explain that with each of the how mazda is a small, a organization was a small army, a of terrorist. and it doesn't represent in my view and exist central threats to israel. but as part of the larger, in a muslim radical arab world, a that's part of it, including your in a. together, they do are present and exist. central threats to his role is always not fighting merely the emotions fighting the whole. these is fighting militias in syria and the rock. it's fighting. this is block, orchestrated by the radians at the moment,

which wants to destroy as well. yes. lady here in the 3rd row on the 2nd. my question is to diana l. daniel, because i want an honest and truthful answer given the decade. sloan boutique, altitude against the palestinians by these where the government, without much regard for international law or consequences, should we have seen the escalations destructive side coming? what could be the global implications when states disregard international law to justify and even normalize during the side? genom briefly. we've gotten to a point in this world where the world tells us that nothing can justify october 7th . and yet every thing that is real has done since october 7th can be justified by october 7th. that's a distorted world. and we have to understand what the, what this occupation is, matt, it's been violent from the, from day one. the next about was violent. and what we're seeing today is a continuation of that and for world order to be restored, we need to have

a system where all states are held to account, not where we get to have a country that says it's time to bomb iran because they might have a nuclear weapon, big secret, israel has a nuclear weapon to genuinely brown jacket and then the gentleman here in the blue jump. and um, i know that were on uh i would just say rock atari stations. what do we think about the site that cut uh, has funded from us for so long plus the key to cause and palestinians and also we haven't had one mentioned this. the 120 hostages still being kept. what pressure could catch all be putting on from us to release those hostages immediately regardless of all the rest of this project? well, a katara has been supporting the from us for that for at least a decade with money propaganda, etc, etc. probably using alger 0. so in that fashion, in this should, in a i think normal state shouldn't support what the world regards or at least the western world regards a, uniformly, as

a terrorist organization. it's true that how much is holding still holding a $120.00? is there any hostages, women, children, a oxygen arians, a 2 year olds, and whatever that they had to 50 in the beginning, and now it's been reduced to a 120. many of them killed by how much people and many of them killed by my really advisory advisory is also, he's really is also killed. okay. some of the hostages. hopefully they will be released. ok. we'll we, we hope that will be released, and i would just say one thing. what did these really go and pop up, come us for so long and encourage katasha to send money to goes stupidly. how does the ceiling my answer? yes, i'm just wondering. i was going to, so let me ask you want to give a loans of the a. the answer is that the is really government under that. then you all behaved stupidly, and this was part of the incompetence of, of the time you all, i think was incompetence. let's go to the judgement in the blue jump. it's taking a look. and i'm, i'm modern show and i wrote a book called once it's genocide advice and what i'm doing is starting any back to

go. so because you said it's a war, it's on those cultural damage and the mouse knew not may be true. but i mean, the real point is the israel new, isn't it? that's if you spend the rolls of or so is that a 100 people can be killed for one minutes. and if you do, that's thousands and thousands of times with 2000 pound bombs. you know that the whole of garza is going to be a really, you know, that you're going to destroy that society. and the, the, the only way we can understand that, i know overall sense is not a series of war crimes, which is a one big crime and not a name for doctors genocide. so of the i think i've already made the point from us when there's a text as well on the 7th of october. knew that this roll would retaliate with bombing and knew that lots of gauze and civilians would die. they were hoping for that because that looks good on west and television images,

but they say the killing a lot of it goes to civilians is good because they go to having their they become markers. so this is, this is a lot of printing. can i could i did i say something wrong? no, no, i just i the wrong, i just went off follow your logic from us new. that was wonderful. your argument is come, us new. if they did this, we do a genocide, so we did it on the side, know your mistakes. i knew that we would like to lots of people they would do, you know, they knew that his role would kill lots of a lot of is over 2 months ago. no. yes. if they knew that going after the come us, they knew that lots of gauze and civilian would be killed. and they were happy with this a because of international pressure, which would result. okay. we're running on time on the take of judgment. assume yes, penny morris. you say that the ice you see should issue in arrest warrant against these already prime minister in the is right, a woman and so you'll have to land. but on the 9th of october, they impose the title siege on 2300000 civilians in gauze, depriving them of was a mattress and food. that is, what are accused of starvation is a weapon, a war,

something that the story and then the russian versions were accused of to condemn the, as anybody being a died in gauze of starvation this yes, this is, this is, this is total nonsense. hold is really, is really and you want me yes i do go. that's what i want. some of it. it is all just say things that are false. i'm going to let you say that these really government. i think the ministers debated whether to couple florida or a couple of electricity, etc, etc. and they eventually result not to do that. and don't. so lots of reporters have been saying and the united nations that garza is on the verge of starvation on the verge of time in the settlement. so that has not happened any. how do i know the, how do you know that? hello and stop actually, how do you know that benny and please i don't. you don't have any reports of anyone dying all to be on a ripple. i haven't heard any. so that makes it nonsense because you haven't read any. i haven't heard of any help thing that i'm in of starvation. any of the final,

i don't know, is a screwed problem. there are people, food eating and assignment and northern go. i don't know what the word from and means. there is a food problem. there's a lot there's, there's now nutrition. there is this. i have heard. nobody's died. they will say to lars, i know nobody has died of starvation is on your end. as far as i know i've read quotes. i know that you're restoring your look at the source and you find the evidence. i know, you know, i don't know if i'm in means i haven't seen anything. maybe it's a big claims. you're making some backed up with some evidence in the back. it up. telling me that report in which somebody has died of start cindy, cindy, cindy mccain, who's cindy, because is the head of the world food program. she's a windows what she's, i don't we don't, she said was the widow send it to john mccain? the most pro is right. you send it through my life. so i said what she said. northern goals are in a full blown farm in their children, women, and children and skeletal states. that did she say somebody died of starvation? i'm asking you sidney, that anybody die of star? and then yes,

that being documented cases read the newspapers who really think you might have definitely just quoted before about start. he said the assignment a moment ago, i didn't say i said, i don't know what samuel, that's a good get out. one is of the core of the discussion that let's take another question. a gentleman in the green jack has been waiting a long time. my question is to penny, i just want to know if you will, palestinian died and you were born in palestine. would you given circumstances support palestinians that i produce a stance the phone that that, that i've done that before and i would support palestinian resistance if i was living under his really occupation. yes. which is what the palestinians off this. i mean we're out of time. i do, very interesting question is very interesting on, so i do it almost like because i watched the recent discussion, you did and you were telling your opponent, you need to have empathy. you need to put yourself in other people shoes. so let's just continue on general. very good question. i don't. i mean, if you're kidding, goals are right now and you still, you're humbling up by these radio falls. you still your parents incinerated in

front of your you'll starving. what's due? a few of these are all going to be, it will probably be very negative, but it might also be negative towards the from us who generated this conflict and lead to that told me being the kid if you want to see them, i don't think one is ready, but you might think both things you probably you probably think if you're with that probably i would describe the depth a of his parents to and is really bowman to these re lease. but i might on reflection late to think maybe the some us shouldn't have sworn. and so many israelis on the 7th of october, which led to this, i'm genuinely husky. is that your top 10 point or is that as a human being? that's how you would feel as a human being. i think i would feel anger towards those with just killed my parents, but i think growing up and on reflection, i might think that the some us had led to this. i might say empathy. i was looking for, but we will. i mean, it's not feel uninstalled, so i'll take it. that's my answer. i appreciate that penny morris. thank you for

joining me on the show today. thank you to our audience in london's conway whole. thank you to a panel of experts who joined the discussion. that's what we have time for. thank you for watching at home. the, the magic has, of course, has to has this chinese academic victor dialed 12 percent of the people to taiwan. say they want to unify, which it's not up to the people in taiwan to decide about the one to on the policy . exploring. china is different. i'm emissions. is he now president for like a true dictates. how can you explain for find the transform ation of china? if you have to take this, you had to head on that just to get out the

safe them even come in as an international inside corruption, excellence award denominator hero. now here's how it's shaping up across the americas, on fridays, so that storm system around the river plate winds will turn lighter. rain will shift out over the open water. but look at this special brain for the southeast corner of brazil, not too far away from sao paulo. we can trace this out. this is

a long line of showers and storms pushing into bolivia, pay route up against the wet weather towards the top end of south america. but let's go to central america right now. rain comes point in some mexico's, you could 10 peninsula that western side of cuba, so some pretty good down ports here. we saw flooding just the other day outside of mexico city, but i think the area of concern could be that you could and peninsula. so debbie starts to pull away from the carolinas in virginia. it's going to pick up speed as well as it does come through the mid atlantic and the us northeast is going to dallas this area. we just saw some funding here in new york and new jersey certainly could see a repeat of this over the next 24 to 48 hours to the west. we go not as cool as it has been in winnipeg, i 21, some air quality issues for the pacific northwest that has to do with wildfire as burning in northern california. not too far away from the state capital sacramento . the park fire has now become the 4th largest fire on record to tear through

california. see you later. the renewed posts for cease fire and gosh cats on egypt. and the us quote on is relevant from us to review those jasons and bridge all guns. the carry johnston, this is all just here, a lie from dave also on the diplomatic dispute south. the israel is not a to commemorate action for the victims of atomic bombing of nagasaki in world war 2. nobody's spoken to patch bigger than me. ramping up the rhetoric,

the us presidential arrivals will face off next month for the past events. i'm still looking for the.