signed in the 1913, he and his followers were hunted by the british and feared by palestinians. oh, to 0 world, tells the story of abraham stern 2 historians and his own family. the leader of an arms group dedicated to the creation of a jewish homeland. the 1st preachers committed of jewish methods crossed the cypress to turn the man, the gang of the states on, which is 01 as well as continues. it's been done. plus war on does the follow stands been the house until switch? how force indo huh. before resuming in cairo on thursday is ryan, how much us probably in proposals for me, data is katasha, egypt and the us. what's, what's on the tons of these this time? this is inside story, the

hello welcome to the program. i am hash and i have a bottle, a pools and tools for a seized by a and goes up. but the opposing attacks from is well 18 people from one family among the latest victims killed by strike. the will, has no killed. 40000 policy is with many of us that on the level o hopes for the ceasefire best until it's broken by cuts all egypt. and the last, as well as the biggest donor and weapons supply up to as well begun is will in october, it took 5 months during which the 2 a 1000 palestinians were killed before the us. and a, you finally called for a seas via the end of march. so you have then, is why it has ignored are you as it goes to council, vote about the international pressure to i'm the school is intensifying the hotels for guys as people continue daily. why the nice valve is, why it is who loved ones are held captive in gaza,

goes on to. so what could make or break these thoughts? is that a real prospect of the best type would put that to all guess for the 1st homework assumes that we have this ripples in the 10 months since the is where the military launched its vote on gaza. it's getting more than $40000.00 palestinians, wiping out 2 percent of districts population and flattening most of its homes and buildings. those will survive in. it's a battle against disease and so basic human dignity. yeah. but the part of the palestinians has led to blow because for the ceasefire for months now, international mediators have not been able to agree one. now us preston, jo button says an agreement is closer than ever after the latest round of talks and

couples captain don't call for the discussions to end. the war will be held in cargo next week from optimistic not far from more optimistic. now then you have been in months past why the, the us egypt i'm cup of say the latest propose a purchase, remaining gaps between hum austin as well. mediators have been seeking to finalize details for framework, initially outline. but preston bought an in me, which he said is run, had proposed, is really problem mister benjamin netanyahu called on mediators to pressure him off to accept the plan. her mouth has rejected what it's called new conditions from is while in the latest draft. dozens of phones of in direct talks between him off as

well have failed to reach out to you nothing. yahoo has said that he has no plans to end the war anytime soon. and as soon as the hostages are released, he'll go back to fighting and that how mass wants it permanent and to the hostilities and then and to the israeli presence in the gaza strip. so that is a very fundamental thing that has not been bridged at all. and we don't know how that is going to be overcome in this new deal on the ground is where these tribes have continued and gone. so can you, me a palestinian on friday these really ministry issued orders to forcibly displace people in central and southern areas previously designated a so called safe zones is as well and gaza is also fueling instability. the fuse of a why to reach simple because i'm sure you've seen the inside story.

let's take a closer look of this is by a proposal of us being discussed. the 1st phase would be a tempo retros, during which time us would release women. the elderly and wounded captives in exchange for policy is held, is by the presence. the 2nd phase would include a permanent until the hostilities and the release of all remaining is riley captive . and the 3rd phase would be the reconstruction of cause and the return of the remains of entity seized cops you have to as well let's bring it all gas in tennessee. we have, i don't think us full noise right in both of the previous government advisor in boston. i'm a hoodie. distinguish fellow of them not going to invest a deal better than the washington dc niles. senate whitehouse. com. this for the publications, the hell was come to the program and do you genuinely believe that a breakthrough is still possible in the adults brokered by the americans,

the age of shows all the categories. you know how she almost unfortunately i don't, i'm not optimistic at all. i look at the fundamentals of the deal. this is a deal that could have been done 6 months ago or 4 months ago or 2 months ago or 2 weeks ago. and it still hasn't happened and it hasn't happened for a reason. it does not happen because israel doesn't want to deal. and it appears that how much is not interested in the deal. in fact, the one thing that how much the visual have in common right now is that they don't want the deal. now, let me add one more thing. in the graphics that you displayed a moment ago washer describing the deal. there are 2 things that are missing in the 1st phase. there's also a 40 to day 6 week of the fire. that's mr. annette on y'all's problem. now the 2nd thing leads to me being pessimistic about this is that in that plan, this is that this has nothing to do with your graphics. this has to do with buying

a present in binary presenting, defined with our and that includes of israel to plan. there is absolutely no mention to post war guys of political governments post work. so the day after power back, you guys are so, and that leads me to uh, a very, very little optimism if at all, all right, ron me, let's break down the, the, this, the structure of the, of the, of the deal itself. so it was it based on the same idea that was presented by president biden in may. how much came in july, the 2nd as to the, the i go ahead with the, with it, with, with the, with the agreements which has based on 3 phases. phase 16 weeks face to 6 weeks, face the 36 weeks except the how much came out yesterday and said, we don't believe there's going to be a did because these writers are not genuine about the number 2. they say, if there is no permanent seized by a complete withdrawal is a,

is why the soldiers complete exchange of prisoners and the vitals, people to return back to the housing. the not, we're not going to commit ourselves to an agreement. is this something that could to undermine edit chances follow up with the potential agreement. there's very little chance of a real permanent comprehensive agreement because i think fundamentally what the americans in the israel is call them agreement is very different from what the palestinians and most of the rest of the world causes them agreement. these relatives americans, especially want to perpetuate direct or indirect, is really control overall with post on security control. that they can amik uh, issues and things like that, demographic issues. so it's very difficult to talk about this a greeting. you might have short term agreements about a cessation of fire, exchange of prisoners and hostages, that is likely to, to happen. and these really is getting out of, most of the guys of the is really is want to stay in part of guys of the post,

a new saying, no, you have to get out all the way. it's fascinating. we hear less talks these days or 4 days realistically. well, after the fighting engine, we move out, we need to maintain our ability to control what goes on, who governs guys on security issues of that's probably being discussed as well that has been pushed down the road. so the chances are for real breakthrough, pretty slim. but the fact that they're still crying is significant. now the fact that they're still trying to continue the tools that we've made in egypt, could this be an indication that the i went in to overcome some of this to components, particularly when these varieties are saying that we need to have some sort of control over the philadelphia core, we do it by the same time, would like to maintain check points and it's heavy. the tell him junk some particularly to ensure that those who would be able to return back to their homes in the nor have to be screened for the potential of carrying weapons to the north.

it could be that doesn't necessarily mean it will be that i think as your previous guests have indicated the really vague, overarching question here is, are these negotiations taking place in good faith in the hope of reaching a day or, or are they really a shell game that is intended just by time on the won't change on the thing in a fundamental sense. so wish reflect, and that's are being carded or for example, yes, may be, there is more reasonable not if you assume that both sides are interested in a piece. do i personally think? yes, that'll be eventually there has to fight enough to stop some guy. but i am not persuaded that mister netanyahu getting particular is interested in a peach dealer, right? not for various reasons, including his own relative lack of popularity in israel. the likelihood that there would be inquiries into the security failures of just about for october, the 7th, and the fact that she himself is,

has engaged in this rhetoric of total victory. i know she's been criticized by the israeli defense minister, your beloved for that. because total victory is one of those terms that can be expanded endlessly if you want to create a rationale to continue or war joy, i think those are the kind of factors that under cover, any belief that this is really a good faith negotiations alone. if a deal takes place, isn't good news for not telling you how could it be? he's opportunities to somehow out maneuver the file, right. come back to his people and say, listen, i've killed 9, honey. i've killed a shock of who's the talking to commander of his butler and i have a deal under how the company's back hope. could it be a good news for him? you know, hypothetically yes, but practice practically. i'm sorry for the reasons. denials, just the numerated. it's going to be bad because mr. newton now is going to face not just the demonstrations and protest and as you,

he's also facing the criminal trial. his coalition, this fragile, is seen as responsible and the main culprits, but the of the box of october 7th and the master attack, inconsistent called 77070 percent. want him to resign over 70 percent. see him directly responsible, therefore he needs to be held accountable. something by the way, which he hasn't done until now. now, of the war, the pro longing, the extent, the extending of the war extension rather of the war and able's him to distance himself from october 7th and speeds into his, the wild alternative narrative. according to which this wasn't just a mess up here and say, this is a civilization a war. it's a multi front war. one is just the. 1 center of, of this coalition that's fighting against israel. on the other hand,

the world is trying to superimpose the palestinian state, which is nonsense. no one can impose anything on anyone, certainly not at this stage. and so for him he needs the war to go on. you know, hypothetically, i take the premise you're, i take the premise of your question, a remark browser he show, uh, hypothetically, this is exactly what he should do. he should say i was let down by the military i, i did what i needed to do. i stood up to worlds of pressures. i even stood up to the american president. i killed whoever needed to be killed and somebody. yeah. and so on. when you have exhausted the usefulness of any military operation, m. m guys up now let's stop and do some. 1 1 recalibration, but that would assume a level of rationality of a decision maker that mr. mate. oh, just does not have allow me that dean is yet to be. think of

a gets us tends to be think in the future in the meantime. if it on his beloved decide to retaliate against the killing of will add sugar and this by in honey, would that change the dynamics a perhaps the but that again a limited short term issue. i think the problem with all of these discussions about peace agreements and cease fires on the day after is that they tend to 0, went on today tomorrow and yesterday they don't look at the bigger issue alone gave a series of very good reasons why he's best domestic, but i think there's a deeper reason that the world has to come to go to the israel in particular. and the jewish people have to come to grips is which is the nature of zionism. and this is really a big stickler item, and it's not going to be resolved in a piece of process because it has all of this stuff is happening with iran. an example of how madison gas,

where use of the settlers in the west bank burning villages. i'm, i'm burning people on their cars and this government of israel and the army is protecting them. so you still have the late 19th century design, a circular colonial process continuing physically taking over homes and in jerusalem and the west bank and other places and trying to drive up the palestinians. and jazz are, i'm the spect less designers i'm able to find them contained in a way that satisfies as the as really desire for their own jewish state, which is a reasonable desire. but it's not the but the state on my land and the power study of land that's forcibly taken from us so that that has to really that's the big a big long term issue. in terms of course rahman has been on the before that's of the office, and these were all the issues that came up, but they tend to hide the bigger challenges that all of us face. niles brought them

in by this event. we're close at that we've ever been as far as the data is concerned, what kind of leather is the american student? how, when it comes to bring narrowing the differences between how mass and israel as well . they have a normal leverage, but the question is, will they use a, i mean, you mentioned in your introduction of, by the degree to which should the united states has under recent israel's effort both politically and diplomatically. militarily, we just recently had the announcement of approximately another $20000000000.00 in arm sales to israel. so there is leverage there, but whether it will be used as the bigger question. we are just a couple of days away here in the us from the opening of the democratic national convention, which is expected to attract size from so proved published in demonstrators of injecting true, president biden. and by extension, vice president hire says a commitment which they have described as iron club, a true israel pressing bite,

and has paused like one arm shipments throughout the past 10 months. now would that's a whole other conversation in one way. there's some suggestion of vice president tyrell is supposed to be not least rhetorically a level more sympathetic to the suffering of the published. and amazon has said that she will not be silent. a body shop. but to get back to your question, the united states has leverage it has less of willingness to use that. that seems to me all of that. i'm many, many questions that need to be and said, particularly the one about what's next, which you talked about earlier in the 1st. and so what's next full garza, we know that the americans these varieties the you and many countries in the gulf region are looking forward to a new architecture in the region without having us in gaza. do see this as something that could potentially happen in the near future if how much continues as a strong ministry faction, you know, how much is not a strong military faction right now,

but what it does have is residual political power amongst other reasons. because israel rejected and is reluctant to entertain any ideas about a post war guys up and about the palestinian authority, extending governance to guys up. which by the way is the exact reason why mr. net. anyhow, work so hard to strengthen. how much? and if you look at it from a uh, you know, from the border perspective, how much, maybe the, i'm assuming is tragedy, but nothing now is equally use roles track. and the combination of 2 and the combination of those 2 um does not land a lot of credits to any ideas of the lady said. now, there is one thing though that you know, this is sort of came up uh, throughout this conversation between the 4 of us. now there's one thing i, i look at this after decades of being involved in these talks and observing them from the outside. you've reached the following conclusion. the one thing that the

palestinians and israelis have in common is that they repeatedly, i agree to blame america. always. america, as for the president, wasn't involved in the president wants to involve the secretary of state didn't come here often. and he came here to frequently, there comes a point where it is, it really is our problem. it's awesome to palestinians. and this, this needs to be resolved without pointing fingers at a certain president, already circle circuit secretary state. and i'm talking about the last 40 years, not about the last 10 months. mm hm. well i'm, it could be that because i'm us understands very well that. and if you to 4 guys where they won't have a say base that if they decide to put this together. so this agreement for the seas by it would be the biggest mistake that i have to commit is that since there was

a stablished of this explains why they are very skeptical about this for talks. i wouldn't go that far, you know this too much emphasis on how mass itself. you don't want to destroy it. you want to keep it out of any future government. do you want me to do this? you want to do that, you know, before how much became powerful. there was the fact that there was the pillow as a whole. um, there were other movements and they come and go. it's important to understand how much is relevance is not the arms. it has or its position today, or who leads it. its importance of this power. and this legitimacy come from the fact that it reflects widely in its political aims. not necessarily its means, but its political and the sentiments of the majority of palestinians and arabs in terms of published in the national rights of the majority of global public opinion in terms of implementing international laws and legitimacy and un resolutions

related to israel and palestine. that's why it's powerful in from a does what it does. they don't particularly they didn't want to run gas or they could have around gas like years ago. they didn't want to the brand and election day one and 2006. and then the us and those real boy thought of them and they've actually had to take over. so i would, i would have looked at the bigger picture. why is, how am i still there? because it reflects widespread power sending and national goals. those national goals include repeated offers that is real to co exist in fees. and that kind of mechanism that gives the as well as their national rights and the palestinians. their national actually is rarely learned. comes, have consistently refused to respond to a place that doesn't overcharge on how about us and the post and the a national movement to do this that so this is work a back to the issue. we've got

a this far. what is, what is israel? what design is on whether it's legal border, it's physical board or the graphic board based on this is why it was people today. also skeptical, obviously, is rarely the american physicians come to us and it's a very, that's a big problem. but it has the illusions, it's great just enough, not to the course. but now when you look at the phase, we wish talks about it a phase of perhaps 6 weeks. that would then i'll show you the new era, the could continue flex it from 3 to 5 years with a reconstruction of because of his head is a problem with this particular phase, he does, why we don't have any sense of calamity who takes over guys who's going to police guys, we're going to have a policy and a pharmacy, rejuvenated reinvigorated to take over is there's going to be saudi's having much bigger say, and the amount of these, than ever before. unless you get a sense of collaborative, how can you put together an agreement that could just collapse in 67 months from

now as well? yes, i agree with that. i think that is a completely valid question. the other thing is how i would a, a sort of a, or whatever kind imposed by, or with the we have some stuff. israel, of any model legitimacy with the people of cancer pretty, has been killed in very large number on the hot, hot in norma suffering visited upon them. it seems to me that almost any of pharmacy that was imposed on not way would struggle mindfully. the other point is just briefly, if i may, before we get to phase 3, we have to get 3 phase trees, where press them bite and hosted. there could be a permanent cessation of hostilities long, and these are his words. as her mouth lives up troops, responsibilities. the direct implication there is there could be a permanent association while her mouse is in existence. how do i know evidence

that mister netanyahu accepts the idle feat, compares to, to talk about the elimination of so much as we near the end of the program. i appreciate it and give me some short answers. let me start with add on. i don't, if there's no agreement, we'll continue is what would be the reaction of the public? it is right. is it fair to say that because the majority of his variety is affordable that for there's absolutely no problem for them as far as the war. continuing for as long as it takes. no, no, no, no, no, not at all they, they support the war and they justify the war in response to what it happened on october 7th and the savage from us attack. that doesn't mean they like what they're seeing, that doesn't mean they understand why it's taking 10 months. like that does not mean that they see any time jubal achievements of now per your questions. and you asked me to be brief about this. um, if the war goes on, there is a good chance or good, likely good that he would escalate. i mean, there, there seems to be a case of connecting vessels here between 11 on and,

and got as the americans know this, that explains some of their involvement in the idea that the paramount interest and that idea of the paramount interest of preventing installation. now, if there is no deal and the americans are convinced that it was mr. an attorney, you know, who undermined to make sure it wouldn't have taken the rails a last minute opportunity. and i think that i'm, i'm like, um, what they have done in the last 10 months. they will stand up and review him powerfully. if that happens, you will see mass demonstrations in agile spots. you will also see major opposition coming from the uh, security branch of the intelligence branch is the security branches and the military itself. so this is very bad. permission that i know if there's no deal around me. i, we close a then of a to a why the admitted to confront ation of his bonds with

a wealth that we've had wider confrontations of this region over the years. and they come and go. but the fear now is this, this is there is a regional war where they run his belong to us from others. that this would be bigger scale causing much more damage. the ever popular because of the nature of the weaponry that's available. but mainly because there's a whole new reality of geostrategic balance. the israel is luck, finding the army of syria and egypt and jordan, as it used to do before his finding this new a constellation of mostly she, i had some, some the arab forces mostly of some of the romanians that have this tremendous new powerful force. the so called excess of resistance on israel, known as the capabilities of these groups and us level together, the roof and the okay. i've been trying to stop in a sort of law the hotels and the other one from

a ship attack and ship them from the can stop from the cube billing. and so that's the big, big question because the, the how do you neutralize the feet? okay. and the only is to have a ceasefire on a piece of ground. very briefly, line of you mind how, how do you see it goes up laying, causing the selections. it splits the democratic party i was going to say of the middle. in fact, the majority of the democratic based as noise, sympathetic to the palestinians that is not reflected in democratic elected officials. and the danger is the bastard south, the democratic enthusiasm. i'm turned out particularly in some key states like michigan which has a very high arrow, the american population. gentleman, i really appreciate your insights. i don't think us that on the whole the nile spanish. thank you very much indeed looking forward to talking to you in the near future. thank you to for once you, you can see the program again. any time i visited our website, i was just calling for further discussion. go to all facebook page. that's facebook

dot com, forward slash a j inside. slowly you can also join the conversation on x, i'll hand it is at a j inside story. for me, how shall i? but i'm the entire team here in the bible news . a pod is an inconvenience. is israel and obstacles piece of i think that the new thing you have on these governments with this, this part that you say getting russell, a thought provoking odd since the e you made weapons of being used in guns. no guns should be used in an offensive way. that's our facing realities you're running. mean, what does he bring to the table? hard from being president, joe, could we do it or something we can uptake the fact that he was signing a present as not that important factor? he had the story on talk to how does era out coverage of africa is what i'm most proud of. every time i travel, whether it's east or west africa, people stopped me and tell me how much they appreciate coverage. and our focus is

not just on their suffering, but also on a more listing and inspiring story. people trust to tell them what's happening in their communities in at p a n on bias. and as an applicant, i couldn't be more proud to be part of this is the 1st one they saw that we see the real time. it's the victims themselves. there's a disconnect between what we are witnessing on social media versus what we're seeing on mainstream media. it is always an attempt to frame a to side of them, but there is no 2 sides to this. the western media does have a western bias. understand what they are looking to see out and raise. the listening post covers how the news is covered. the mood and untold stories from asia and the pacific on

the . ready ready a single venue in the hall and here you are headlines on elsie's 0. israel's bombardment of gaza is showing no sign of respite as pressure builds for lasting ceasefire. 21 palestinians were killed in the latest attacks in darrow, by the 8 members of one family, died in this really year strike. they included 6 children and their parents. and they need to stay around the refugee camp and is really rate on a home killed. another 7 palestinians, 3 of them children. and at least 4 palestinians were killed in a separate attack in hon. eunice. meanwhile, local officials and darrow, by

a warning of dangerous overcrowding is due, is really evacuation orders force displace palestinians to flee into the city houses. here historic up was.