also regime in iraq and syria. now many are in camps, either role funds or with the, with the mothers, rejected by their own communities checking the things that people are going to welcome them after that. of course, not an any award winning documentary. here's that shooting and traumatic story. the children throw stones at me erects last generation on l. g. as in the head of the you ends, nuclear watchdog holds military action is posing serious risk to the coolest nuclear power plants. most goes as a facility in russia has been attacked by you quite in forces. chief hasn't commented. so how dangerous is the situation is inside story, the hello that on james bay's,

the head of the international atomic energy agency williams. there's a risk of a nuclear incident from fighting new the coast can nuclear power plant in russia during your visit? rafael draw seat said it's nuclear, react to. it has no protective shield. meaning there's a high risk of disaster. it's hit by missile crating and forces crossed into the coast region just over 3 weeks ago. and the fighting is move closer to the facility, putting it well within range of ukrainian weapons, nuclear risk. so being a constant since the stalls of the war and ukraine, russian forces sees that police, you a nuclear power plant in south east in ukraine, the largest in europe. early in 2022. it's since been attacked several times with the us nuclear watchdog. the i a visiting the site and issuing warnings that to south serious of the dangers out because pont and could the fighting nearby lead to a new click faster fee. we'll be talking to mr. gross, the, the i a director general and a few minutes and all panel of guess off of that. but 1st,

this report from wilson dice aut with ukrainian force is only 40 kilometers away. and their weapons well within range. the head of the u. n's nuclear watchdog visits the chris nuclear power plant. president vladimir putin has accused ukraine of trying to attack the nuclear facility. one of the largest in russia, ukraine hasn't commented raphael grosse warrant of the danger of a serious nuclear incident. we see the plant still operating at the same time, the fact that the blank piece operating at make it even more serious in terms of finding eventual action against it. and when i've done diesel operating, the temperature is much higher. and if there was the case of an impact or something that could affect it, and there would be serious consequences. grossi said the reactor lacks any special

protection. he had seen evidence of a drone strike on the plants premises and repeated his warning that nuclear facilities must not become targets an armed concert. but rushes for an ministry spokeswoman accuse the i a e, a of not being explicit enough in its officers nations. we see both the assessments and the work of this structure, but each time we want to more objective unclear expression of the position of the structure. not in favor of our country, not in favor of confirming most goes position, but in favor of facts, with one specific goal, ensuring safety and preventing the development of a scenario along a catastrophic pulse to which the key brushing is pushing everyone. the russian forces have occupied those upward c, a nuclear power plant in ukraine since early in the war. it's since come under attack with the i a e, a confirming a reactor building was among several parts get on april the 7th this year. a

scenario few if any want to see repeated in this less well protected nuclear facility incurs wilson dies or l g 0 for inside story. mr. glossy is now back from cook, and that i a headquarters in vienna, rafael grossey, director general of the international atomic energy agency. thank you for joining us here on inside story is we've seen, you've just returned from the nuclear pond in russia. what concerns you most? well, what concerns me most is the situation of a nuclear power plant. and again, a very close to an active combat zone. in this case, after the, the recent military at d, v. d and the incursion of the forces from ukraine into tennessee to the territory of the russian federation. now, we have seen as the possibility of a new get power plant within the range of fobs,

unmanned aerial vehicles or artillery. and of course, this is always something that they respect people, the territory of the country or, or other circumstances. this is always something that concerns us because he does to do with new care, safety and security. and this is why we, i personally lead a mission of the, by the, the there which to base the yesterday. the right to general. this is an old design of nuclear plants. as i understand it's very similar to the one shown to bill, which was the scene of that awful nuclear disaster in 1986 my understanding of the technical terms of containment though, the basically doesn't have a hobby roof, is that that? no, that's the problem. just tell us is the, the, what is the scenario if something was to hit it, if i missed, saw or dry. yeah, hit the realities or what would happen. as you write, please say most nuclear power plants have the cool predicted by,

by of a metal structure enter a vessel. but then it over on top of it and reinforced adults, which is a bad to resist even the impact on funding coming at their craft. to give you an example. in this case because of the type of design, a, of course the reactor is inside the building, but these buildings and all my building. so what have what happened right, to general if it was hit, would it be like show the was e, the feet was heat, there would be on like in a normal nuclear reactor where the sheet on the reactor would most probably never get to the cold of the reactor with the fuel and the nuclear material is in

this case, it would directly impact it. you must remember that these type of react, or if you refer back to your memory subtotal is moderated by graphite, so, combustible. and then we could have potentially, i wouldn't use sure no bill as a, as a parameter, but in terms of the density of what could happen because he'd would depend on what kind of project tide would be impacting. but in any case, there would be an important radio active and it'd be nice into the boost here. so it really goes to jude's of a. c is a situation again in case there was any back of that nature. so this is why it was important for me to go to evaluate this, this did state of the reactor, the emergency and the preparedness and response making these items in place. and then of course,

i have the possibility to have the case that was, is such, evan try that, you would, which of course we called was not a big bass, had been able to respond to it and to inform the international community about it. so this was kind of a fast, but indispensable contact with the situation that, that i had to make. ok, we know that you were shown what the russians said was drone debt free. they say the russians, the russian foreign ministry, that you should be more explicit and condemning the ukrainians. but how do you know that that really was drug and february from the ukrainians? and do you have any revenues? yes, the use for russian propaganda, you know, to, to, and i mean the intentions by, by others he's not something i would get into monkey evasions or intentions. otherwise, i would not be able to do much in the international arena these days. so

what's important is what the, what the does on what the service and what we, we see things that we can see there, then that can be, can be we evaluate, obviously at the time of these events, they refer to a couple of occasions recently. and as part of the recent media teddy activities and which they attribute to the other side, of course, we were not present that we were not able to make any evaluation at the time. so we kind of point fingers what i have said, and again, and what we say is what counts is that all these cannot be separated from the events they can base and in the, in the area. so this is why it's important that the i e gets involved and it's important to re yes, the us i did yesterday from curse or earlier at the united nations security council . there should never be a duck on and will get power plant. this is the principal,

and as you know, there's a very wiring symmetry to the situation because the cost font, which is not currently occupied by ukraine, is in russia. is that for region nuclear plant? is it the front line in the ukraine, and that is all coupon by russia, however, it all you at the moment about this operation to as well. um uh, i will be visiting somebody's uh next week on hold for the order. so uh, the van, talking to president zalesky with whom of course we have a very important agenda, referring to separate easier referring to the protection of the of the nuclear power plants in ukraine. we tried the moment of the lifeline of the country because they are at the moment where they as you know, energy infrastructure of the country is under and stress as these nuclear power

plants are providing reliable energy to the economy and to the society. so we are going to be discussing that on other things. okay, i will direct to a general given the similar give me the symmetry that i've talked about. the fact that there is a, a nuclear power plant on the front line in one country and on the front line and the other to stop in any way give you an opportunity for potentially some diplomacy with both sides. well, i would say the sydney lottie do use of the, the situation. it is attempting to draw this, this kind of pattern. but this, he patience, as you rightly said, are very different. in one case, we have 30, told the shoes, we have no compassion. we have a situation which is very different from here course where we have a plant which is being controlled and disputed territory of the russian federation,

which is which lies close to an advance of uh, military troops from the other side. so if you want the, the common denominator is the new get risk or the risk of a new good actually to, to put it to put did correct. the promise he is always deployed. and i, this is why, as you know, because we have been talking before, we are the, i use the own, the international agency talking to both of the same time because there is an obvious recognition from both sides of the board tense. these are 2 very important at nuclear countries, new getting the sense of new get energy, cvn, new get energy. of course, russia has been good web post. i new grade does not, but that i countries that rely heavily on the contribution of a new get energy to the nation. i respect the grades. so of course, and this makes it for repeated opportunities to talk to persuade,

to hopefully improve is things for the better. great to speak to you again, direct a general draw. see, thank you for talking to us. thank you. the, let's discuss all the issues with today's panel of guess in vienna robot kelly is a distinguished associate fellow at the still called international peace research institute and the full, the director of nuclear inspections in iraq full the i, a in a stomach latest a cobra is the executive director of the vienna center for disarmament, a non proliferation she specializes in the racial region and international nuclear safeguards. and in washington, dc and the to leave and is the director of the racial program at the quincy institute, a us based sync tank. thank you all 3 of you for joining us, a regional textbook and to nuclear experts. i hope the scientist will correct me if

i get anything wrong because i don't claim to know a lot about new, clear science. let's start with you. robot though, you heard the interview with the director general of the i a, the agency, but you used to work for russia is saying that guy needs to be much more explicit condemning the drones that were followed on this plot. ukraine is saying this is all russian propaganda and it's not even better objective. does he already have any capability to look at that does drone debris and say who was responsible when i work for the i a, the has 0 capability for that they don't have capability for assessing nuclear weapons, for example, theater. so that's not their strong to what i found really depressing and amazing about this conversation is it's all wrong. the, uh, the curse facility is nothing watching mobile and even why can you end up suggest that those 2 are related. you cannot have the accident that was that terminal. it's impossible. why the i here, which is supposed to be the most important,

a new care technical agency on the world is pointing out hysteria and garbage. it is a new me, for example, the contain building around the rafter that you haven't any reactors, some 3rd or stop airplanes. it's there to contain radioactive steam, if there is an accident in the core. if jerome hits that building, chances are all that will do was just to destroy itself on the outside of the building. so just to be clear, just to be just to be clear to us a direct take by miss oliver, a drone on the react to what's in your own view, what, what, what would that, what would that actually, what would it mean? we're talking about her one or jewelry strike or a drone strike will probably damage the outside of the building. the core is extremely rugged. it's inside of a strong building does not contain that building, but the continuous building was not would not be there to protect the reactor. it's to keeps theme and radiation from getting out of the building. that's what's

missing in the uh, 40 year old. so he design elaina, you all the nuclear ex, but do you agree with robots view on that? i am. first of all, i want to clarify that i'm not a new client energy, an engineer or a new plan. so it is and it's difficult for me to make certain, uh, technical and scientific recommendations regarding that. but the fact that the building does not have a containing reactor and containment for the reactor is certainly makes it much more difficult to contain. there might be some of these that there is a release, but it also makes it the building and less from texas,

from potential impact, depending on what kind of ms file or airplane is use. but my understanding is also that in addition to many of the features that will add to the term normal um accident. there also additional safety features that put into each reactor it's not on. and bob is contained in these buildings or how don't or reactors. so as if we are talking about comparing uh, potential of the accident, i would say it's definitely much, much lower than uh, the case of terminal. having said that, any release of friday soon. but any damage to react droids or would be

a very serious decent incentive. and it would put uh, the development of nuclear energy and overall developments around nuclear power into a much more difficult situation. but i want to go back to the comments regarding the ability of the i a to make assessment off the drone attack on the remnants. i think that was the fact that grosse pointe it himself that's not their job and it's not the expertise b i a specialist on od forensics experts, particularly when it comes to conventional weapons and the fact that they are sometimes expected to provide or point fingers to make assessment is asking for

something that the agency and it's personal on logic quips and not prepared to do the so. okay thing. but let me bring what were let me bring robert back in because he would critical a moment ago all the all, yea. up. mr. grossey director general grossey was leading this mission. he's been leading so many of the i a missions to zappa ratio. is this unusual? is it normal practice for the head of an international agency like this to be leading the field trips? well, we didn't have any field trips to rack and somebody didn't have any field trips to olivia or we had technical people going work those problems. so i think the main thing i'd like to see is a technical person or a non, an international lawyer speaks for the i a and tries to reassure the public. i think elena just did a nice job of pointing out there are

a lot of differences. and try to reassure the public the this is not any chance of being anything like to know there's 0 chance the curse is going to be another journal and maybe radiation relations if something goes wrong, more likely in an outside field font but but not there. so when you look at jeffery, yeah, they keep talking about the reactors, but they're huge outdoor pools with no cover on them. filled with thousands of radioactive filaments. that's why we should be putting our attention. okay, let's get the context or amount of tal. it's 3 weeks now since this offensive started. do we have any indication that ukraine actually wants to capture this nuclear plot because they had the elements of surprise, very weak defenses. when they 1st went into the coast region, they could perhaps have captured it right at the beginning if they wanted, couldn't they? possibly it's not really possible to just say how far they could guess. i'm sure

they want to get us as far as they could. um the question is, i think have determined all of a to hold this tire tree in cost. and there's been indications from the ukranian government that they really see this as a ball getting cancer in eventful piece towards a box. on the other hand, as some military experts have suggested that this rather than an advantage, the ukrainians could be a very dangerous distraction from the defense of direct and territory in the east to ukraine. i'm afraid that to a degree when our for aging in, in a corporate, it's called the sagas war. um and uh, we will have to see how things turn out on the battlefield. but an adult. how things tony, how the battlefield. yes, they're making games in the coast region in russia. but when you look at the

situation in the ukraine itself and east and ukraine and don't boss, it seems to be going pretty badly, doesn't it? well yes, i mean that is, that is a key point of because one might have expected that faced with this um, surprising and, and proceed humiliation. ukrainian and cushion into intercoastal best um that the russian government would have thrown that 1st thing into costs to push them out again. but in fact they've deployed troops to contain the ukrainians in cost while continuing their offensive in east. and you try to capture the town across and the southern dumbass of last. so the russians seem to a degree not so concerned about this ukrainian attack and people i've talked to

have express considerable confidence that if i'm in the increments of the time is still on russia sites. and just as one russian security expert said to me, sooner or later the ukrainians will have to leave cost. but we will never leave the dumbass role. but let's move to eastern ukraine and the of the nucleus site that we've been looking at for 2 and a half years is up. patricia, you said you're not quite as concerned as many others are about cost. how concerned are you about the situation at the zappa reesha nuclear plot? weather has been fighting various points. it's un, under the control of, of the russians. and it's, i believe a much bigger plot than the coast blocked in jeopardy as much pressure plant. most of its been shut down there for months. that doesn't mean it can still have melting incidence or hydrogen incidence. but it's,

it's in much better condition now than it was. you have to worry about those outdoor fuel ponds, as i mentioned, because that is where a radioactive material is stored under water. so no coverage, no building at all over. there's no containment buildings. you know nothing. those things are just under water hot doors. then you have to look at the other plants in the ukrainian are they are they have 3 other sites where operational reactors are ukrainians are going to be very, very careful not to cause any kind of a radiation incident. at course, for the simple reason that the russians have left their nuclear plants and ukraine alone up to now. and there's the ukrainians cause a problem as cursed. it gives the russians a green light to take out all of the rest of the electricity production. and um, can you create and then they're going to freeze to death this winter because it be no electricity at all. raphael, losing to that. i know we know from present zalinski that one of the aims of the coolest operation is to strengthen his hand and potential negotiations. do you see

any prospect for a start to that being some nuclear diplomacy given we're talking about one cloud in ukraine. one plant in russia, could that be some source of opening here? do you think i'm, i think the english incursion of cranium forces into the russian territory itself probably is an attempt of having an opening and discussion though we still don't know exactly what uh um, what is one of the reasons and possible several reasons for this incursion but i don't think that then you can uh, funds are the key point here. i think it's oral the attempt to see the situation with the war and demonstrate ukrainian

ability to fight and actually fight in getting to in even russian territory. but again, the, we don't know every thing and we don't have enough information about that. okay, that sounds good. i bring you in on this point. do you think that there is any, any, any room for diplomacy on the nuclear issue itself? i attended that summit that took place in switzerland that ukraine had with the international community didn't invite rusher. i just was looking back to the declaration. the very 1st point was about the international community's concern about nuclear installations and the fact they should be. i quote, safe, secured, safeguarded, and environmentally sound. well, it says the father of been for more than 2 years now, new direct contacts between the, the premiums and the russians tool, except the very limited area of prisoner exchange. so if you could get

a limited a dialogue going on nuclear safety and separation cause, well that would be a very smooth beginning from all of towards because soon or late. so that will have to be direct talks. and actually, the ukraine inside has now changed its previous position and said, yes, at some stage that will have to be tools. but the nuclear issue could only be a very small beginning. opening. you count, result all the colossal issues between you training and russian. the western russia food needs indigo c. ations it's, i mean, look, it's is, is obviously much more significant than the so called ping pong to play them to say that again, relations between communist china and the us. okay, got adult and 60, that's all. thank you very much. thanks you too old. all guessed today here on

inside story and it's all leaving elaina. so cova and robot kelly and also to raphael grossey, the director general of the i a you who joined us early a coverage of the crate and russian continue see on how to 0 it the analysis to on how to 0 to call me if you have comments about this story or any of the we want to hear from you on facebook at facebook dot com forward slash ha, inside story on x. you'll find this at a inside story for me, james pays and the whole team here in town hall. please keep yourself safe. i'll see you back here very soon. bye bye for now the the latest news as it breaks according to you and it says the rate of it sells rent . death in this complex is unimpressed. attempted in the history of modern wars with detailed coverage as well. what do we think it's so cold? humanitarian phones has led to less access to nearby who says from the hoss of the

story, people come gets exercised, but it's also important for mental health. the gym for, for a brief respite from the heroes of war. a wave of criminal violence has risen export to the truck. the talk tells, praising the challenging of sorts, prison riots, assassinations. ecuador has plunged from one of the safest countries in latin america to one of the most dangerous, with the government declaring war on the guns and corruption. the people in power investigates with causes behind the search in violence. and it's devastating impact on the nation. ecuador, on the fire, on that jersey, you know, a sense of belonging. we are very close knit community. everybody knows everybody, and the every day he real keeping communities together. this is the same sort of set of my universe. i just eat up, visit scotlands out there a headboard and meets those fighting to say that either this way of life in the

face of its population, a sense of community on a jersey to the . ready for hello nick lock into how with the top stories here on out to 0. and this really forces a conduct a launch scale military assault on the occupied westbank is now stretched into the 2nd day. at least 16 people have been killed and more than 20 others injured management. reinforcements have been sent into the city of janine. and that'd be additional raids on thursday as well. including running the ship at refugee camp and occupied easters rate was carried out to the neighborhood by surprise. and the full handsome young man named my house austin for water to drink. i went to bring them up to the.