to the dreams of a better life. emigration is so much. it's because cynical doesn't offer opportunities out g 0. well tells the story of a community via wave of immigration and meets the women that i lost my husband. we don't office on how to see of a few that the leadership of libya central time is led to the suspension of oil production. the 2 bible governments of trading blame for the standoff which has the of the hands. and what does it mean for libya's economy and security? this is inside story. the hello that on james bays, libya central bank,

which controls billions of dollars an oil revenue is at the center of the latest political dispute. the governor has fed the country feeling for his life style, say they being threatened by um groups and banking services, interrupted livia has to rival governments which are full for power influence and control of its vast all reserves for more than a decade. this week, the internationally recognize government in the west replaced the central bank governor the administration in the east which operates most of the oil fields, objected and halted production. the national corporation reported losses of more than a $120000000.00 and just 3 days. so how will this lexis viewed affect the economy and is it taking libya closer to civil war? once again, we'll explore all these issues with our panel of guests who joined us in a moment. but 1st, this report from katya lucas hardy on security forces stand guard outside libya. central bank and aaa arrival factions are locked in a power struggle over who controls the institution and the countries oil revenue.

the banks have suspended operations and people can't access their caps. we don't mind that old banking procedures for 10 to normal as far as the political problems and the competition over the leadership of the central bank. they should resolve these among themselves. citizens should be able to go about the banking as usual. it's the latest fall out in a divided nation back in 2011 long time leader and walmart. good off. he was overthrown during the spring political disputes followed, leading to the formation of 2 rival governments. one is based on tripoli, in the west, internationally recognized and led by prime minister, often coming out of the by and the other is based and been gauzy in the east and supports war, lord call equal half star, who controls most of libya's oil fields. and for years,

both sides have depended on the central bank for survival. in a country well or is the life blood we should think of the central bank as being the heart of the pumps that wealth through the system. and if whoever controls that central bank is going to control which of those 2 level affections is going to throw it on which one of them is going to whether the 2 administrations compete for power, shifting alliances with arm groups, unrest has search recently, fueling political instability and disputes over resources. the status quote is not sustainable. in the absence of renewed political talks leading to unified government elections, you see where this is heading. in the fall out, the central bank of governor, so deacons could be, it has floods the country, the tripoli based presidential council, accused him of mismanaging funds and forced him out. now the rival government in the east has promised to hold oil production until could be or is reinstated. so

far, the country's output has dropped more than 50 percent to around $700000.00 barrels per day. what are the images of? they've shut down the central bank level people in a terrible state. most people just look around on the shops are empty. there are no surfaces, nothing. i thought it might be safe now divided libya is bracing for what could be yet another power struggle which could worse than an already french aisle situation . capielo pacific again, l g 0 for insights story the, the well, let's discuss the situation in libya further. now as we joined by today's panel of guess and in been going to see we have flaws. and as i'm a historian and political was such a, he's the oldest of tribe islam and the state in libya. and paloma italy is cody, a guys, the she's a senior living analyst at the international crisis group. her research focuses on libby and security, politics and economic governance. i'm in aaa,

mustafah for tory and independent living an academic and award winning to in less time to all of you for joining us on today's program. so around about the head of the central bank when, when you say like that for us, it doesn't sound particularly serious, but it is, isn't it? it's, it's a crisis. what a decent price is. it's one of those and not a kind of process if you like, that would be. and soldering soon is a notion, but also the institution of that you can uh, splits since 2014. um, this is a problem that has to be going on. uh, as i said, since 2014, but this, the drug bank has to be dominated by one man. um, at a 100, you know, he has to be over the home by his, uh for where i live and beckons. so this is just the number is, this is just a little bit practice that you have to do with. i told you, let me ask you,

do you think this is something that could potentially even bring libya to fresh conflict? well, so far we've seen our mobilize ation not lead to conflict. i mean there's being confrontation as being tension. but we haven't seen that out right. or large part because for the past year or more, there's very little appetite to, to bring the country back toward. i think the major risk in this current moment is to see a major repercussion of dispute over the central bank on the economy. and that means more difficult living conditions for libyans and possibly a paralysis of, of the libyan economy. most stuff uh, i read an article that you wrote recently on the middle east monitor website. and you looked at the events a this time in august, 13 years ago that was when capacity was toppled. i was in tripoli at the time and it was actually interpreter as well when he was killed in the october. you say

there are a striking similarities with today. explain. yeah, sure, james, thank you for having me for a small on that. and this is the big similar i to drive. she actually has to do with the economy because of the sanctions of the time and back in 2011 and making glover and conditions for mostly be these are quite different from the shortages are for basic and depravity. especially in dakota for the time as well as the longer choose the wrong, the better or do i need to get stationed or be able to present their cars. on the other similarity was the elizabeth difficult to use the, the one with the cash money, getting them from the backs, you know, a told me to in despite the war and everything. and it wasn't back in 2011, wasn't as bad as we i see in later years. like in 2015,

2017 nissan this year. you know, a couple of months ago the similar to use the loss of control over the over the. busy the government drawer in the states and institutions customized the tractor, the center back got settled for back in 2011 and was currently under control of the government. and the, even when the time i chose to flee in the country or new york actually in preparatory, when trump is taught, and then your placement was me that you wanted, then the everything. but just mostly i've told them to do more. and i've told her one of course not to smoke me, but uh, whatever happened, doctor deck, i mean, after march 2011, it was due to the war itself has nothing to do with the bottle. she's the govern. look, i mean, to accept what the situation got to have to do with the demonstrations of the nature and progression of course, which destroyed much of the country. yeah. uh,

do you know, how do you feel like you, most of the governments, the, the state is that you choose getting them to the point where play off today? yeah, well that's, let's look at where we are today. so let's back up a little bit. for those that are watching us today for us, because you are in ben gauzy. we have most stuff up in tripoli and you're in the 2nd city. he's in the capital, but you have different governance. you have different people running those 2 ups of the country and triplet, you have the you and recognize government. prime minister abdul hamid, debatable, and then gauzy. you have an eastern administration and the main person that is the role or general khalifa half. so it's not one country really is at the bottom of the way it's being run, visits for rush. this monday she from country, but it's to stage rental kind of doesn't like do governments. one government is i'm

elected, which is joined by the international community. the other government, which is in the guy they expect that by the parliament, by the directors all elected parliament and the country of the elect to the very long time ago though for arch this is the problem is that the institutions have different international efforts to try and rebuild the country and the latest elections that the international community plan never even happened . well, you kind of just like the way you want it, but that has been elected to was elected by the people to be the one that oh, would that be the opportunity to the elections that hudson's? and that's why we have this government do that apartment with you. uh, do i agree with it? she does a lot of questions. but again, and this is where you are, you have a set of 2 states. do you have to put on distributions?

so going back over there for about what, what are you uh, the on the used to being godaddy, which is the under the on button, the bottom of what i do have, i can actually just militias on, uh, the, actually, and will see that i just, uh, evicting uh, the, the, the, the going to be the back governor, i'm on the law is when you have business. okay, so let me tell you and we should have told you, if you look at the congress, right to look at the country, it is not national natural resources. this is a relatively small population. on the 7000000 people, it's a very big country, much of it's, that's it. but most of them live on the right north of the country on the med training coast. and it has or should have bossed well, should it not? the libya is the bank not utility of these b. c, libya is a very wealthy country and has been because it produces 1400000 barrels of oil

a day. and you know, the reserves of the libyan central bank. so that again, state are over $80000000000.00. it generates about 20 between $20.00 and $25000000000.00 of oil revenues a year. so these are the big numbers compared to other neighboring states. and as he said that it's a, it's a very small population. the problem is that over the years they have being repeated accusations of mismanagement of funds and basil mat or the. 1 a former you and then boy sold outright. predation of state results is so you have state officials that are actually using depositions of power to tap into these oil revenues. think the even more of the product then given a lot. um, what is interesting to me is that given you companies to rival institutions to rival governments, there was only one central bank. that seems to be the only institution that is common. i'm not seems to be why we have this really big problem right now. well,

the, let's say that the central bank is normally unified, even though defective. it isn't only for the past year. you are the house. it has been divided into 2 rival branches since 2014 when the country 1st, but politically. so the political divisions brought with a split up the central bank. one was internationally recognized. the headquarters in tripoli, governed by deacon's could be and was being the governor of officially recognized governor since 2011. and the mother rival branch based. and when does he do it? has his own, which had his, its own governor, but was not internationally recognized. so the central bank has been divided in the past 2 years, there's been an agreement in time because of the re kindled ties between authorities in eastern libya and the governor said you could could be that has been an agreement that the east pointed deputy debonair a gentleman,

by the name of my that i bought a seat would be recognized as such by cindy could be. so only in the past year and a half. has there been a sort of a new found friendship over the management, a centralized management of the central bank? of course, this is also because funds have increasingly be being uh, directed also to these the authorities which for years have been sort of starved of state funds and have a jews. the governor and tripoli are not giving them the money. the parliament was not receiving the money, no rival start using the east. so this new, this fuel, that is a rough thing today, is actually a change of the, of the alliance structure in libya for many years, for almost a decade. was those in the east towards using the governor and tripoli all starving them off? they wanted him changed, and now because there's a refund friendship, they are the ones defending the governor and actually opposing the decision of the

tripoli base of the ortiz to socket. so it's actually was full circle in the feud over the central bank. most stuff of then there was this understanding old bull, very tense, but it's broken down and it seems the dispute, the end was between the governor, all could be a and the tripoli government. the governor, i think, was unhappy with the spending levels of the tripoli, government concerned about corruption. a debate is government felt the governor of mass too much palate, is that the sort of tension we're talking about? who was, who was in the right, who was in the wrong in your if you mustafah as well, that's about the way it went to jim. so that's part of the reasons if the tensions between the 2 sides and the search can be on the website that the administer and the other side that i the broadening certain trimball the course mr. banker. but there's also the changing alliances because a license does uh,

the group research speaker i mentioned which are shifting all the time. and we have seen some kind of different shift lately when it comes to the alliances that support understood. it could be as well as a mr bank about the same time for a job. but in terms of, you know. busy i'm groups in tripoli, you know, mr. missing it could be, it was, was protected by the, the tyrant forces or that. and then, and then you know, i can, the same people are like drawer tool tool tool tool. the brian minister, mr. bay back and i'm, i don't know i like and beatrice. yes. but the issue here is actually and also have to do with 2 more things to try change. first of all, the, just the machine for future needs including mr. to be in his position as a governor are i'm to got to you for their dog. and then there is

a big question marks on that. when you look at what's happened with the governor over the last 2 weeks. i mean, this is a man who was dismissed from his job twice before by december to try to keep the billing to den, which is the bon 1st of the 1st time in 2014, on the 2nd time of 2018. and we have to remember you guys being in the position since october 2011. that's a very long time. no, completely free. been managing the financial literacy of the country, managing the value, the nar, which is which has to be blown looking for the whole decades or so managing the funds available to him above hold for the order. and the people in the street seem to get to know somewhere else, i'm truthfully,

somewhere else in the country. the main problem is he has been trailing them in terms of availability of cash as well uh, widely available in banking services. the banking services in the country are for there are no light in machines, you know for them please. i think and to hold the car up and where i yeah. there is only probably $10.00 to $15.00 such machines and most of them on every do. yeah. and then the average day of your laura cottle, i'm okay, have okay. not honest about as always what you say all his shortcomings for us though, the way he was got rid of, had to flee the country, was very, very ugly, wasn't it? they were sieges of the, of the headquarters of the central bank. that was the head of the i. t department was kidnapped, there were threats made the children of stopped up threatened with being kidnapped . and then in the end, they had to leave the country. it was the way that the he was picked out. so

let's just say this was on constitution cause it's going to be a constitutional declaration. and that was not the procedure that's normally in a southern country. you would do it. however, i'm having to see that back over. that's what i'm the see model the country. but i wouldn't like to to do it the way that i've done it. it's just, it's the task given the, the, this, the institution about they as us call the even bigger fiction between the rules of live. yeah. as the comments has exchange, now we are charged spend and, and both banks of the, the arguments content including the what, what type of now is that the eastern government, which is where most of the oil fields, filter based have shut down the oil ports. they've shut down the production and tell us, is this something you think could go on for some considerable time and what are the

effects already on the libyan economy? how worrying is it? yes, i mean 1st. so let me say it was somebody who has been following libya for over 10 years. just the idea that the eastern base of our ideas a and you the hopped our base forces up their lead forces shots, the oil installations to protest against the sacking of the governor, who was their arch enemy for, for many, many years is somewhat a, you know, surprising, but the repercussions are going to be, the repercussions will be there. i expect this a disclosure to, to last, to go on until there is this assessment of this dispute. of course, the east based. so start is want to see the presidential council. so the tripoli base so far it is backtracked on their decision and reinstitute or at least have of some kind of faith saving declaration. that means to choose

a certificate could be as, as the governor. so i expect the closure to go on for some time with not seeing any signs of this finding a common ground, despite the fact that this the un acting invoice. stephanie cory, us for a meeting to take place some recent days. we sorry, you the state department issue a very strong statement the just earlier today condemning the fact that the, these moves on the central bank were done without consent, says so the risk going forward is not only this stopping of oil flows and therefore the shortage of revenues, i mean oil has gone down from a 1400000 barrels a day to around 500000 barrels of production a day. so the, and the relative income is also a lot. but there's also the risk that if there's confusion as the us a, sorry, the key is referred to, it goes on. there might be some decision on an international level to close off the

transactions which have been, have been temporarily suspended with the central bank of libya. so there's very to appetite of international town to parts to deal with a central bank that is a contest it. so i think the risk side, the closing all financial transactions until this dispute is, is result was the hotel. that's how it feels right now in triple a. how, what read all people about the situation? is it affecting ordinary people's lives at this stage? how are it all they about the value of the libyan the know how worried are they? the, for example, salaries for people who work on the public payroll are going to get paid on told that the figures are 2400000 libyans out of about 7000000 are actually state employees. you know that sir? yeah, that's the, that's the straight to one portion. see most people are getting paid from the

government and actually they don't do it any, any, any kinds of flux. but this is the way to even triple the i went through the notes too much of change with the exception of the 2 things. one is the one as the was the, uh, the problems with the, with the gas, you know, or on the gas stations, which, you know, the distribution company to go home and go distribution companies break. it has been trying to, we should be good, but everything is fine and it has enough supply us in stock. and the much more is coming into the country, which is the other. i'm the, the current, libya despite being good, big one, the producer and boss, most of the find the product so it doesn't capture enough for the final good. good best the, that's one thing. the other thing is when it comes to banking, do you know, i know what's the and the shops i was the. busy one of the big sort of marks yesterday in the city. and they have already now suspension of using the payments,

you know, by neil any, any kind of for backups which is not widely available in any way but, but wherever they used to be, they are stopped using them. i also change the, you know, notes that the dollars value was not uh you know, call them much more button compared to other other. busy times or price. so you know, like, uh, 2 years ago or something. and uh, the other thing i noticed is the prices have gone up. but you know me just the globalization and the car. can i please just rarely people not ready warren. i'm, they are confused. okay. told the just were bring you want to people being well it do you think the international communities, why would you use to look as an advisor to the van head of the un mission?

um, it seems to me, i mean, back in 2020 we had world leaders having some, it's invalid and talking about libya. but that doesn't seem to be quite the same. focus on libya now. has the world lost interest in libya and is that worrying in itself? well, for the past 2 years, it has to be said. the world has taken a step back on the been mainly because there was comfortable statics quote, there was no war the to ride on. no, sorry these, even though each had its own government and military condition in the east and the west of the country. these 2 arrival, so those entities weren't talking to each other behind closed doors. they were arrangements, there was a sort of a peaceful coexistence, and people thought, many for and capitals thought that, well, you know, it's libya is not in such a bad place. now he's, there is no war and this is what caused people to a and institutions to, to, to follow less. libby also because the region is aflame with other conflicts. so

there was this idea that this, the, this peaceful stay to school despite being dysfunctional. and despite being for paris, it would continue now with this recent crisis over the central bank, which i should repeat was rather unexpected. because there was always this assumption, that the debate by the government of tripoli was talking to the hoster dominated authorities in the east and that they were deals at taking place. there was always this idea that this co existent will continue. so to seek this, this crisis over the leadership of the central bank came a bit out of the shop. okay, but i'm very soon, very, very concerned, very concerned for us. last, what would you very briefly do you think the conflict can be avoided? how, what would all you about the prospect of the conflict briefly if you may think of this timing on, you know, how to go from one of the complex, i think the,

the trends step just prefer to see what he's trying to do on the band. and one way or another i think would be sorted out. i did think that would be all ok, thank you very much for raj. thank you to all guess today for us to not jim claudio does any more stuff or the tory, if you missed any of this program or joined us like you could always want you to get it on our website, which is 0. don't com? what issues should get the in depth inside story treatment next time, let us know on facebook, facebook dot com forward slash ha inside story or unless you were in brazil you can find this on x as a j inside story for me james space and the production team here in bo huh. bye bye . for now the, the september announces 0. us vice president, pamela harris and republican presidential candidates. donald trump based off in

their 1st to the debates. people in power week's environmental campaign is facing a truck down for using direct action protests in germany. the labor party conference will see new prime minister, cure summer outline his vision for the future of the country. 11 investigates, claims of corruption in south korea's adoption system. the united nations general assembly brings together will be there is for its annual high level to be september or no to 0. pod came in to be is israel, it no political piece? i think that to move in the f one of these governments with these 5 digit, you say getting russell, a thought provoking. odd since the e you made weapons being used in guns. no guns should be used in an offensive way. that's our facing realities. you're running mean, what does he bring to the table? hard from the presidential? could we go to some we cannot take the effective use of the present as not that

important effective. he had the story on talk to how does era the injustice for me is the driving force of why i do this to show people what it's like to live in places where in just this isn't something you read in. the news is something that happens to every single day i the weather as a more natural disaster. weather is political corruption, making sure that they understand in this simple language is absolutely crucial. the

cities already 50 percent evacuated. most of those people actually left in the early days of the war. i couldn't do this job without the best cumberland, best produces the best spaces and those other people to ireland in order to be able to get that message out to the well the so many folks are into the top stories and i would just say around israel who is being county as a major ministry operation of the occupied westbank for 5th consecutive day. at least 24 palestinians have been killed since wednesday. jeanine has been placed on the siege, cutting palestinians off from food at electricity. when you go home and you have to go to alec tricity and sewage no longer exist, nicole basic necessities are non existent in our neighborhood. we have not breed, we are cut off from the will. perhaps loves, loves, have just done. it's hard, it's very hard for children and for everyone else will.