through the prism of war. but there were many of the kind of stuff thanks for the braves. individuals who risk their lives to protect it from destruction. an extraordinary film archives funding for decades reviews the forgotten food of the country's modern history. the forbidden real part to the communist revolution on a just the, to the you. k government says it will stop some of its arms. x force is ralph hearing the use of certain weapons to break international law. israel's prime minister calls the move shameful and says it will help come on. but what are the implications of this decision? this is inside story, the

hello and welcome to the program. i'm for the back people that you cases it. suspending for t license is out of $354.00 arms exports. the israel is for and secretary david lam . he made the announcement in parliament. but his connie, the defense minister, has been on the airwaves playing down the impact of the decision, while israel has responded in anger with benjamin. that's now calling. it's shameful. some u. k. politicians however, say the move is not enough and want a full band on arms exports to israel. so why has the u. k. s dawn dry of israel taken this decision now? is it link to international legal action against a one, gaza, and what's the wider international implication? we'll put that to august in just a moment. but 1st this report from side of high, right? so on the same day that israel was burying the bodies of 6 cups is held in garza and palestinians were being killed and israel's relentless foaming of the goal of

the strip. and his reading that 3 rates were being carried out in the occupied westbank head of the british foreign secretary and out. so you case immediate suspension of around the t licenses to export on to israel. and thank sir, it is with regret that i am full in the house today. the assessment i have received, leaves me unable to conflict, anything other than dr. section u. k. on this exports to israel. that does exist a clear risk that they might still commit will facilitate a serious spiders of international humanitarian. but critics say it's not enough since this affects only 30 outs of 350 u. k. licenses that supply is row with everything from components for military across and drones, plus pulse that facilitate ground targeting. from 2022

to june, last year, the case and maybe $75000000.00 worth of weapons to israel. buquet insist this latest measure is not a blanket fund and during the effects weapons that could be used in serious breach of international humanitarian rule is ready. prime minister benjamin netanyahu has condemned the decision quoting it's shameful. doing with or without british arms is route will win. this will unsecure a common future. in the u. k, the nation's chief rabbi says the move big is the least and will only encourage all shed enemies. the british government has faced months of widespread protest against the war in goza, with tens of thousands holding for an end to british homes. exports to is ro just last week, the use top diplomat to sit burrell initiated procedures to all member states to

consider a sanctioning. some is really ministers is really spacing accusations of carrying out to genocide against palestinians in the goals district move in. 40000 people have been killed since salt, so but 7. and despite its international efforts and launch protests and israel, a seas 5 deal is yet to materialize. sort of height of all g 0 while a number of countries of change or um supply arrangements with israel since the will began in february, a dodge corps band, the export of f 355 to just parts to israel side. the concerns about rights violations in gaza, but another court ruling in may allowed x force to other countries like the u. s. which could then send them to israel in denmark, campaign groups have taken legal action against the government to stop on 643. israel, italy, which has been one of the largest exporters of arms to israel, has stopped in new sales,

but still continues to honor previous contracts. in march, canada, as parliament voted to freeze arms sales to israel. but it doesn't apply to permits with millions of dollars already approved, although is supplied to the us. and i drop a nice for and cut ties within is ready arms manufacturer after an order from the i c j in january the last spring. and i guess for today's show in london is jeremy colbin, an independent u. k. member of parliament and the former labor party leader is a long time advocate for the palestinian cause in june. is francesca albany. so united nation special wrap, a tour on the occupied palestinian territories and in gundy in the u. k. some palo freeman, a research coordinator at the campaign against on st. a. u. k based organization working to and the international arms trade. a warm welcome to all of you. thank you so much for being with us today on audra 0 francesca albany see and to,

and is that me start with you? how do you view this decision by the british government to suspend some licenses? will it have an actual impact on the ground? would it make a difference for the palestinian people? and i can tell you whether it's going to make any impact why no o artist transfers to each trailer has been suspended. the u. k. i do have stayed in deal pending is just one of the civil out. the member states was providing weapons to israel and not a license has been suspended. but let me say, because we need to book this thing call. it seems to me that they have still to register this next sheet represented by the international demand. the minute i mentioned that occurred in the are, there is just being an international court of justice advisory opinion that

declares israel spreads in india, environmental defined hottest in tears reached local to be dismantled. a need and relations have to be made to the pot experienced dfcs, serious implications for vendor states who have under the law states, responsibility and obligation not to aid in the us. just the got a g o d organization and at the same time, by january 26th this year there are being a set of additional measures ordered by international justice. we transferred the pages that these are these for meeting jo side in. gotcha. and distribution of measures applying to member say no to grade and she's an integral mission of genocide. this is the call dicks in which are our exports including the transferred over to the all. and that can be used to wish you would

just for example, to be suspended. yeah, thank you for giving us a context there. it was very important. what do you think then francesca is the purpose of this step by the u. k. government. my assessment is that to the reeds, every combination, an increasing regulation that east road east will meet g s series of international crimes. and there's a huge pressure in the u. k. and did you know the countries or they did the, the, the, you paid the government a in then you have not being completed in the financial should the recognition that under the a, the, the, the, the order done by the international court, the job is there might be complicity in the actual journal side. so there is a moment of a weakening but again, and this is the beginning and it's still not enough. right? i will ask you about the implications of this in little while francesco. let me

bring jeremy, pull that into the conversation. mr. coleman. david, allow me that before and secretary has said that the u. k. has an legal duty to review arms exports. but do you think this decision to suspend some of these licenses is purely legal or are they also political reasons behind this? well he's, you're trying to assess the arms export regime anyway. the previous government did the side and then it has to do the, the onset export laws. thing legislation requires everybody's coming to do that. but at the end of the day, it's a political decision. how much notice you take of the lady to advise to proceed on the timing allowing yesterday and now to see what kind of suspense he owns. last test i to 350, but then went onto the site that this wouldn't damage israel's ability to defend itself from to die. the defense secretary john avi, is gone a bit further to essentially sight doesn't make very much difference. and so you

may ask yourself the question, is that supplementing organization in order to try and look as though they're listening to international law or is it something they're very serious about? i'm honestly not sure what the answer to that is. yesterday i asked for clarification from david, allow me to get on the question of the use of, of the british prices in cyprus. the vices ring, cypress are held by the root of that force. these are also written by so sort of in the bottom missions the separate government. they have been used for flights over gauze and by taking plains directly into israel. and i asked if this is going to stop or not quite clearly, deluxe the on site is on this section lapse. and the use of british weapons in the face off both the i c, j view on genocide acts of genocide and the i. c. c to section to

arrest. one issue arrest warrants for song is really the leaders actually leaves britain very vulnerable because parts of the upset he projects all night in britain, britain and still supplies a lot of other weapons to israel. so i don't think the legal case against britain is actually finished yet. the may well be legal action taken against britain or after will often product itself has being the country always holds international law. so i remain skeptical that this decision will take us very much further. and my big worry that we have compressed it in the coming of now over 40000 people in gosh, right. and the arrest warrants have it, haven't been issued yet. so let me get you your thoughts about what we heard from both francesca and jeremy colbin and your thoughtful to do you think this is a purely legal decision or are they political aspects of play?

also here, i think the government was under lots of post political and legal pressure. those outraging the country about the u. k. being consistent in genocide, that is a legal case coming up in october when the governments be taken to quote, a rich refusal to suspend the export licenses. so i think in, in some ways they must have felt a, that it was inevitable that they couldn't avoid making some of those. but there was a huge hiring exemption loophole in this, in the site. her exempted components for the 2nd 5 ass off you k for uses 15 percent of f, 3 x $35.00. so long as those components go via the country usually to us. so you called now tech support has 35 pos directly to his right. oh, they said there's a clear risk they might be use, commit serious violations of i show. right. but they kind of got this. it was

rarely think goes by of the us. exactly. so, so why, why do you use the 5 components this? what, why do you think you have 35 components weren't included in the suspension. is it also in the interest of relations and interest of relations with the us and the larger arms industry or the industry? the low israel only got a small propulsion of only a certain find space overall. yes. the 5 programs with billions to you paying industry b. i a system. some of your calculations made over a 1000000000 pounds invested you from the button by program last year. according to that item, you will report. so that's the rule. countries not just is vile. and so yes, um the government is making up excuses about disrupting global supply chain. right . good. so the most is vile from the list of authorized destination. so they could

tell the us, we supplies these parts for the, the bike, but international i'm british law requires that we do not allow them to go to israel. but they do not want to jeopardize their relationship with us that slice in the class and by program. and so they are come be not with this. totally related to the excuse. this actually makes not rules as they go along to accept the assets and 5. and this was yesterday on the very day we had. so the 1st time that the confirmation, that's an act xbox and 5 was use to attack. let's see. so called sites and guns up with 32000 pound problems, selling 90 people. and that's 30 by 15 percent, which is made in the u. k. u k. is shows saying by this 3rd much saying that

his vial is not following international law, but they are choosing to remain consistent with this rectangle funds. the site builds industry and relations with us. all right, francesca. let me ask you about the wider legal implications of this decision that does this decision to a, to suspend some of these licenses? does it shield or steer the u. k. a way in any way from the legal concerns of complicity and the genocide in gaza. again i said absolutely no, it doesn't shoot because it's not enough to um to comply it to the list we that both of the i c j advisor will be in, which is based on uh, i know they're all available law and uh, with the i c j provisional measures concerning the general side teeth. so these decisions, i need a pronouncement, they require every member stage to reevaluate their engagement. we set up with

these routes and opposed international law because i don't doing that really further normalizing your commission and further enrolled in the natural systems international based order. so there is a food got lots of options that need to be taken in order engaged, carmen, including then you pay should do it. you need to just say we set all economic community very strategic prologic and political or the 5 inch deep that you have to meet the with these ro, but the franchise to clarify what does the u. k. risk today, both domestically and internationally, by continuing with the status. cool. so let me say that lisa, a meeting having supported israel's was 57 year old on an awful endeavor. it's, i mean that's pretty hiring moment, but now under the circumstances, any likely what is happening in gaza,

the general side that has already be for me to the doctor. and there are serious ways that there is, as you know, over onto the west bank. there is a risk that the u. k. government makes it so can police it with oxygen and sign. okay, jeremy colbin your thoughts and why do you think there is this ingrained official reluctance in the u. k. to, to think about the spending arms sales to israel, despite the pressure from, from both the public and political parties on both sides of the i, there is a very deep uh, security relationship between britain and israel. and it's me of a fly. i mean time again, so it's connected to them because of but the really levels there is an enormous pressure, hopefully supporters of israel, both in the you can call them and time to the media. and there is a very strong opposition mounted against palestinian opinion and

people in britain. so i think there's a combination of factors there, but it's also a very strong over from the audience. industry to industry is very powerful and very picking britain. they have a huge numbers of government contracts and international contracts be a systems as an enormous manufacturer in britain. and they are very reluctant to see any restriction around supplies anywhere in the world. so all those reasons. and so what i'm tired of already tried to do yesterday was demonstrating that somehow or other he is called nice and overly issues of human rights abuses in costs are well, who isn't present to and happening for a long time on the he sold by making the site or do with some other other the kind of the very strong opposition to the strategy in the labor party, the most others in on thing creating my own group. and that he would come out of it

as a somebody, it was getting on better with the private protestant, in opinion, in britain he hasn't actually achieved only what he's done is upset. a whole lot of people who are very pro is royal who believes that somehow or other he's actually seriously restrict taken off some lies to his royal, but it has pleased any of us. and we want to seek a suspension of the response to that. jeremy colbin is that, you know, if they're upsetting both israel and the us and, and you know, their allies with this decision as well as upsetting those in the u. k. who wants a full band on arms x force and they say that they, they're doing something right? well, i don't believe we're doing something right when i see an end to the bomb bomb and to go. is there an end to the killing of innocent civilians and children in gaza? there is nothing wrong about what is right who is doing at the present time. they are committing acts of genocide and we should be acting accordingly in accordance

with international law, from the i c j. and of course, when the i c. c. arrest warrants are finally issued. we should ask the rest of those people that wants to be new. suit against. yeah, francesca. interestingly, the british for and secretary has said there isn't enough reliable evidence to make a definitive conclusion that israel has violated international humanitarian law. what, what do you make a visit and what more evidence do you think they, they need to, to prove that british weapons are being used against policy me as not just in gaza but also in the occupied westbank as we've seen recently? well, 1st of all, i disagree, we seem because there is an off and it doesn't matter. it doesn't matter because in order to not to violate the genocide convention, which would be the addition of preventive, general side members, they need to go dr. ways a deep obligation not to uh,

support a state that might be for meeting general side. and again, the member states have been to know is that there is this rest of the 26th of january this year. so i will do respect to whatever the assessment of the 4 am, secretaries demobilization scene goes by. a giant genocide prevention are very so clear. and even if genocide had not been completed yet because there is a risk, there is an obligation to prevent a home for full relations, especially a mediator is strategic relations, have to be suspended. okay, i'll ask you in a bit about these reports that the u. k. might be dropping it, subjection to the i. c. c. arrest warrant for he's really need is when there is one . and what do you think the significance of that will be? i just wanted to, to bring back some into the conversation and ask you some, a little bit more about the type of security corporation that exist right now

between the you can use around all of a more arms that are being supplied at the moment to israel. and then then what the export license is approved, what, what's the extent of corporation that is a british government being fully transparent about a lot. so the trans byron, the financial, if it goes we sometimes here floated only applies one side, the single individual export license. but most of you k owns exports to israel, go through open licenses, and especially the open license for the ex 35 companies are registered for that. they don't need individual licenses to explore anything. so any of the countries involved in the ex, 35, and we don't have to size because the government doesn't smaller to deliveries. but we estimate the value of u. k. components and that's fucking 5. so the supply too as well that's,

that's 9 of them is about full fox, 360000000 pounds. uh, since it's 2016. and that does not even include sped offs. that's just the initial manufacturer of the u. k. is this being the same share? and then there's also a lot of other ukiah equipment that goes to israel in direct slate. so license says whichever export to the us of components which are then i push the value, assembled into the larger equipment side to rack or off to whatever that is. so to me as i mean, i don't even know if any of those licenses those in the licenses of being suspended or if it's just the direct effects. bolts do is via ranch is really an attraction for title. and what about those countries that are suspended? uh, they're on sale stories where i like spain,

for example. what impact has that had some unfortunately, not very much as the countries, but perhaps suspended on sales a lot to be the ones that want uh, supplying very much in any case. and in cases like the netherlands, again unfortunately the cold, so the loud. ready this new paul, no direct deck sports, but the in direct that sports via the us or other countries doc. so okay, so the $35.00, it seems that everyone treats this global supply chain. so to get the bibles absolute excite cribs and coming before international law of the genocide convention as the drug test. uh, the thoughts about this to be the absolute priority through any country. okay, mr. coleman, what, what next to you then i, i know you formed a group of independent employees to campaign against, on sales against israel, among other things. what impact do you think your group can make you?

you're surrounded by a labor party that's very much pro israel. the tories were very much pro israel as well. what difference? what impact do you think you can make with this group? well, we're pretty clear which part of us that we are wanting to them, the arm sales to israel. and we want to say pace for the palestinian painful not means and i'm just the agenda side of the barn. no, we don't have a char seen problems. obviously we're nowhere near the. however, there are large numbers of labor and pays who are very concerned about this feeling any numerous amount of oppression from the constituents in many parts of the country, the labor product went down in the race in general election, 30 significantly little odd shape because of issues surrounding garza, the demonstrations have increased in size, not decreased in size. the popular support for the palestinian people is bigger than another in my lifetime. so we will be opting out, okay, offering our account timing. i'm going are more and more making the cakes and the

all the sales to israel, so saved lives. and i think there's actually a significant number of people in israel, the beginning to realize that from the demonstrations yesterday, the government does go to do something in order to end the all compression and then to continue bump up until the cost of francesca albany see i'll give you the last word, do you see the tie changing now with this rushing up of public pressure as jeremy mentioned, and also political pressure. did you see, do you know uh, a change in international legal of expectations soon over this issue? yeah, i do see the change. i do see the change of the time just because i know totally very soon a global or move mention sony. dire gee, with the finest union people and we d 's race onto the in the general side. now in the end of the apartheid in the long

term. but it's going to be a very, a very involved already because to assist in the needs trail and is it a week or if you're on the phone, remember stating god and, and, and so there is a lot more effort turning from civil society that needs to go in, just supporting and making these a change over time, even more meaningful and faxed to the end. invisible. thank you very much. toll free of you for, for a great conversation, francesca albany see jeremy colbin, san pillow friedman. thank you for joining us on inside story. and thank you to for watching, you can always watches program again, any time by visiting our website that ologist era dot com for further discussion. go to our facebook page at facebook dot com, forward slash a inside story. and of course you can join the conversation on x. a handle is at a g inside story for me, for the batch boy in the whole team hearing doha, thanks for watching bye. for now,

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with this strategic downstream industry on the clock, in the news, your better tomorrow the, [000:00:00;00] the low, i'm sammy's, i them, this is the news out live from dell coming up in the next 60 minutes. several people are fed dad and, and this right of the s drive dog thing that is by law in central garza more than 33 people killed in the strips, installing them tuesday and they occupied westbank a full 10 year old boys killed on the 7th day of as well as the song that

the and on the 3rd day after the death of 6 is may be captives. and the government protest is detained in