not we ignore the global subject to book process for people and it won't cost the time of 10 desks. oh no, just the u. k. government says it will stop some of its arms, ex, force, the israel steering the use of certain weapons to break international law. israel's foreign minister calls the move shameful and says it will help come on. but what are the implications office? the solution? this is inside story, the hello and welcome to the program. i'm for the back to bolt. the u. k says it suspending food t license is out of 354 arms exports. the israel is for and secretary david lam. he

made the announcement in parliament, but his connie, the defense minister, has been on the airwaves playing down the impact of the decision, while israel has responded in anger with benjamin, that's now calling. it's shameful. some u. k. politicians, however say the move is not enough. and want a full band on arms exports to israel. so why has a u. k, a strong john? i of israel taking this decision now, is it link to international legal action against a one, gaza, and what's the wider international implication? we'll put that to august in just a moment, but 1st this report from side of high right. on the same day that his role was bearing the bodies of 6 captives hills in garza and palestinians were being killed and israel's relentless foaming of the goal of the strip. and his reading that trades were being carried out in the occupied westbank. the call the british foreign secretary and out,

so you case immediate suspension of around the t licenses to export on to israel. it is richard grant that i am food in the house today. the assessment i have received, leaves me unable to conflict, anything other than dr. section u k, on this ex post israel, that does exist a clear risk that they might use to commit or facilitate a serious sponsorship of international humanitarian. but critics say it's not enough since this affects only the t outs of $350.00 u. k licenses that supply is row with everything from components for military across and drones, bus pulse that facilitate ground targeting. from 2022 to june. last year. the case then maybe $75000000.00 worth of weapons to israel

buquet insist this latest measure is not a blanket, fun and dirty effects. weapons that could be used in serious breach of international humanitarian rule is ready. prime minister benjamin netanyahu has condemned the decision, quoting, it's shameful. doing with or without the british arms is ro will win. this will unsecure common future. in the u. k, the nation's chief rabbi says the move, big as belief and will only encourage all should enemies. the british government has faith months of widespread protests against the war in goza, with tens of thousands holding for an end to british owns exports. to is ro a just last week the use top diplomatic to sit barrel initiated procedures to all member states to consider a sanctioning. some is rainy ministers. is early spacing, accusations of carrying out to genocide against palestinians in the gulf strip.

move in, 40000 people have been killed since outside the 7. and despite its international efforts and launch protests and israel, a seas 5 deal is yet to materialize. so the height of all g 0 while a number of countries of change your um supply arrangements with his route since the war began. in february, a dodge court banned the export of f 355 to just parts to israel side. he concerns about right 5 nations in gaza, but i'm not a court ruling in may allowed x force to other countries like the us, which could then send them to israel and denmark. campaign groups have taken legal action against the government to stop objects for caesar. l a to lee, which has been one of the largest exporters of arms to israel, has talked to new sales, but still continues to honor previous contracts. in march, canada is parliament voted to freeze, obviously is israel, but it doesn't apply to permits with millions of dollars already approved for those

to buy through the us and job a nice for him. cut ties within is really honest manufacturer. after an order from the i c j in january the last spring and i guess for today's show in london is jeremy colbin, an independent u. k. member of parliament and the former labor party leader is a long time advocate for the policy and cause in june is francesca albany see united nation special wrap a tour on the occupied palestinian territories and in gundy in the u. k. some palo freeman, a research coordinator at the campaign against on st. a. u. k based organization working to and the international arms trade a warm welcome to all of you. thank you so much for being with us today. on audra 0 francesca albany, seeing june is let me start with you. how do you view this decision by the british government to suspend some licenses? will it have an actual impact on the ground?

would it make a difference for the palestinian people? and i can tell you whether it's going to make any impact why no old artist transfers to each trailer has been suspended. the u. k, as you have stayed in deal reading is just one of the civil out. the member states was providing weapons to israel and not a license is being suspended. but let me say, because we need to book this thing call. it seems to me that they have still to register this next sheet represented by the international demand. the minute i mentioned that occurred in the are, there is just being an international court of justice advisory opinion that declares easterel springs and india environmental to buy hottest in territory, local to be dismantled. the need and relations have to be made to

the pot experienced dfcs, serious implications for vendor stage. we have, under the law states, responsibility and obligation not to aid in the us, just the got a g o d organization and at the same time, by january 26th this year, there being a set of additional measures ordered by international justice. we transferred the pages that these are these for meeting general side in. gotcha. and distribution of measures applying to member say not to read and she's an integral mission of genocide. this is the call dicks, in which our arms exports, including the transferred over to the all. and that can be used to wish you would just for example, to be suspended. yeah, thank you for giving us a context there. it was very important. what do you think then francesca is the

purpose of this step by the u. k. government? my assessment is that to the reeds, every combination, an increasing recognition that east road east will meet g s series of international crimes. and there's a huge pressure in the u. k. and did you know the countries or they did the, the, the, you paid the government in the u. k. not being completed in the financial should the recognition that under the a the, the, the, the order done by the international for the job is there might be complicity in the actual general side. so there is a moment of a weakening but a game. and this isn't the beginning, and it's still not enough. right, i will ask you about the implications of this in little while francesca. let me bring jeremy, pull that into the conversation. mr. coleman. david, allow me that before and secretary has said that the u. k. has a legal duty to review arms exports. but do you think this decision to suspend some

of these licenses is purely legal or are they also political reasons behind this? well, he's, you're trying to assess the arms export regime anyway, the previous government did the side and then it has to do the, the onset export laws. thing legislation requires every british government to do that. but at the end of the day, it's a political decision. how much notice you take of the lady to advise to proceed on the timing allowing yesterday and now to see what kind of suspense he owns. lost says i to $350.00, but then went onto the site that this wouldn't damage israel's ability to defend itself from to die. the defense secretary john avi, is gone a bit further to essentially say it doesn't make very much difference. and so you may ask yourself, the question, is they supplement to go to the section in order to try and look as though they're listening to international law? or is it something they're very serious about?

i'm honestly not sure what the answer to that is. yesterday i didn't ask for clarification from david, allow me to get on the question of the use of the british prices in cyprus. the vices in cyprus are handled by the rule that force these are suffering by so sort of the bottom missions, the separate government. they have been used for flights over gauze and buying, taking plans directly into his royal united, honest, if this is going to stop. well, not quite clearly, deluxe. the other thing is on this section lapse and the use of british weapons in the face off both the i c, j view on genocide acts of genocide and the i. c. c, the section to arrest. why is your arrest warrants for song? is really the leaders actually leaves britain very vulnerable because parts of the

upset he projects all night in britain. britain still supplies a lot of other weapons to israel. so i don't think the legal case against britain is actually finished yet. the may well be legal action taken against britain or after will often product itself has been, the country always holds international law. so i remain skeptical that this decision will take us very much further. i'm sorry, my big worry that we have compress it in the coming of now over 40000 people in gauze. right. and the arrest warrants haven't, haven't been issued yet. so let me get your, your thoughts about what we heard from both francesca and jeremy colbin and your thoughtful to do you think this is a purely legal decision or are they political aspects of play? also here, i think the government was under a lot of 1st political and legal pressure. those outraging the country about the u

. k. being consistent in genocide, that is a legal case coming up in the side of the governments. be taken to quote, a rich refusal to suspend the export licenses. so i think in, in some ways they must have felt or that it was inevitable that they couldn't avoid making some of those. but there was a huge hiring exemption loophole in this, in the site. her exempted components for the 2nd 5. as off you k for uses 15 percent of f, 3 x, $35.00. so long as those components go via the country usually to us. so you coat now, x pulls x 35 parts direct. the 2 is right. oh, they said there's a clear risk they might be use, commit serious violations of i show right? but they can go this, it was right. it looks like go via the us. exactly. so, so what, why do you use the 5 components this, what do you think?

do you have $35.00 components weren't included in the suspension? is it also in the interest of relations? uh, in the interest of relations with the us and the larger arms industry or the are the industrial they the, um, old bo israel only got a smooth propulsion of all the stuff and find space overall. yes, 35 programs. what do you see? you paint industry being a system, somebody in the you k alterations made over a 1000000000 pounds invested you from the button point program last year. according to that item, you will default. so that's the rule. countries not just is vile. and so, yes, um, the government is making up excuses about disrupting global supply chain, right? they could, so the most is vile from the list of authorized destination. so they could tell the us, we supplies these pos for the, the bike, but international i'm british law requires that we do not allow them to go to

israel. but they do not want to jeopardize their relationship with us that slice in the us and by program. and so they are come be not with this. totally related to the excuse the sanctioning making up rules as they go along to accept the assets and 5. and this was yesterday on the very day we had for the 1st time, definite confirmation. that's an act xbox and fi was use to attack. let's see. so called sites and guns up with 32000 pound phones, silly, 90 people. and that's 30 by 15 percent, which is made in the you time. the chain is chosen by this 3rd mixing the his vial is not following international. ready law, but they are choosing to remain consistent with this rectangle funds for the sake

of their homes, industry and relations with us. all right, francesca, let me ask you about the wider legal implications of this decision that does this decision to a, to suspend some of these licenses? does it shield or steer the u. k. a way in any way from the legal concerns of complicity in the genocide in gaza instead of sort of, you know, it doesn't shoot, but it's not enough to to comply it to the list we that both of the i c j advisory opinion, which is these the on the no, they're all available law and we the, i see change original measures concerning the general assign tiegs. so need to see, should i need a pronouncement? they require every member stage to reevaluate their engagement. we set up with these real and opposed international law because they don't doing that re further normalizing your division and further enrolling the multilateral systems,

international based order. so there is a full guides of options that need to be taken in order, and it gives you core mint in coding, then you pay should do it. you need to just say we set all economic community very strategic supermodel. good for legal or the partnership that it has to meet the with these ro, but the franchise to clarify what does the u. k. risk today, both domestically and internationally, by continuing with the status. cool. so let me say that lease a meeting having supported israel's was 57 year old on long island. dave or it's, i mean that's pretty hiring moment. but now under the circumstances, any likely what is happening at the general time that's already be for me to the doctor. and there are serious ways that there is, as you know, we're on the west bank. there is a risk that the u. k. government makes it so can police it with oxygen and sign.

okay, jeremy cold in your thoughts and why do you think there is this ingrained official reluctance in the u. k. to, to think about suspending arms sales to israel, despite the pressure from, from both the public and political parties on both sides of the eye. there is a very deep security relationship between britain and israel and the of a fly. i'm intelligence has collected drunk also, but that you really levels, there is an enormous pressure, hopefully supporters of israel, both in the u. k. parliament time to the media. and there is a very strong opposition mounted against palestinian opinion and people in britain. so i think there's a combination of factors that happen in tulsa, a very strong, over from the audience industry. now,

how much industry is very powerful and very big in britain, they have a huge numbers of government contracts and international contracts. the systems is an enormous manufacturer in britain, and they are very reluctant to see any restriction on supplies anywhere in the world. so all those reasons. and so what i'm tired already tried to do yesterday was demonstrated that somehow or other he is cognizant over the issues of human rights abuses in the uh gosh, well, who isn't present been happening for a long time. and then he sold by making a mistake with you, with some of the other, the kind of the very strong opposition to the strategy in the labor party, the most others in on thing creating my own group. and that he would come out of it as a somebody, it was getting on better with the pro palestinian opinion in britain. he hasn't actually achieved only what he's done is upset. a whole lot of people who are very

pro is royal. who believes that somehow or other he's actually seriously restrict taking off some lies to his royal. but he has placed any of us who wants to seek a suspension or by supply so that their response to that jeremy colbin is that, you know, if they're upsetting both israel and the us and you know their allies with this decision as well as upsetting those in the u. k, who wants a full band on arms x force and they say that they, they're doing something right. well, i don't believe they're doing something right when i see an engine about bombing to go, is there an engine, the killing of innocent civilians in children in casa? there is nothing right about what is right is doing at the present time. they are committing acts of genocide and we should be acting accordingly in accordance with international law, from the i c j. and of course, when the i c c. arrest warrants of finally issued we should ask the rest of those people that wants to be new. suit against?

yeah, a francesca. interesting lee, the british foreign secretary has said there isn't enough reliable evidence to make a definitive conclusion that israel has violated international humanitarian law. well, what do you make a visit and what more evidence do you think they, they need to, to prove that in british weapons are being used against by this to me is not just in gaza, but also in the occupied westbank as we've seen recently. well, 1st of all, i get the group name because there is an all and it doesn't matter. it doesn't matter because in order to not to violate the genocide convention, which would be the addition of preventive, general side members, they need to go dr. ways a deep obligation not to uh, support, a state that might be for meeting general side. and again, the member states i've been to know is that there is this rest of the 26th of

january this year. so i will do respect to whatever the assessment of the for him, secretary demobilization scene goes by a giant genocide. prevention are very so clear. and even if genocide had not been completed yet because there is a risk, there isn't nobody get shown to prevent a home for full relations, especially mediators, strategic relations have to be suspended. okay, i'll ask you in a bit about these reports that the u. k. might be dropping it, subjection to the i. c. c. arrest warrant for he's really need is when there is one . and what do you think the significance of that will be? i just wanted to, to bring back some into the conversation and ask you some, a little bit more about the type of security corporation that exist right now between the you can use around all of a more arms that are being supplied at the moment to israel. and then then what the export license is approved, what, what's the extent of corporation that is

a british government being fully transparent about a lot. so the trans byron, the financial, if it goes we sometimes here, floated only applies to one type of single individual export license. but most of you k owns exports to israel. go through open licenses and especially the license for the ex 35 companies are registered for that. they don't need individual licenses to explore anything. so any of the countries involved in the ex 35 and we don't have precise because the government doesn't small. that's a deliveries, but we estimate the value of u. k. components and that's fucking 5 so far supply too as well. that's, that's 9 of them is about both box wheels and the 60000000 pounds. uh

since it's 2016. and that does not even include spat paul, so that's just the initial manufacturer of the u. k. is 15 percent share and that's also a lot of other ukiah equipment that goes to israel in direct slate. so license says whichever ex bolt to the us of components which are then i put the value, assembled into lots of equipment, side to rack or off to whatever that is. so to me as i don't even if any of those licenses those in the licenses of being suspended for if it's just the direct steps . volts do is via ranch is really an attraction for title and, and what about those countries that are suspended? uh, they're on sale stories around like spain, for example. what impact has that had some unfortunately, not very much as the countries that have suspended on sales a lot to be the ones that want

a supine very much any case. and in cases like the netherlands, again unfortunately the quotes that allow. ready this new paul know direct object sports, but the indirect object sports via the us or other countries. not so. okay, so the 35, it seems that everyone treats this global supply chain. so to get the bibles absolutely. psych cribs and coming before international law of the genocide convention as process assaults about to be the absolute priority through any country. okay, mr. coleman, what, what next to you then i know you formed a group of independent employees to campaign against, on sales against israel, among other things. what impact do you think 2 groups can make you? you're surrounded by a labor party that's very much pro israel. the tories were very much pro israel as well. what difference? what impact do you think you can make with this group?

well, we're very clear which part of us that we are wanting to then the on sales to israel . and we want to say he's for the palestinian painful not means and i'm just the just heart of the bottom. no, we don't have a charging problem and obviously we're no one is not. however, there are large numbers of labor and pays who are very concerned about this feeling any numerous amount of oppression from the constituents in many parts of the country. the labor product went down in the race in general election, very significantly little odd shape because of issues surrounding garza, the demonstrations have increased in size, not decreased in size. the popular support for the palestinian people is bigger than another in my life time. so we will be opting out, okay, i think come kind of mean i'm going are more and more making the cakes and in the on sales to israel. so saved lives. and i think there's actually a significant number of people in israel,

the beginning to realize that from the demonstrations yesterday, the government does go to do something in order to end the all compression and then the continue bump up until the cost of francesca albany see i'll give you the last, where do you see the tie changing now with this rushing out of public pressure as jeremy mentioned, and also political pressure. did you see, do you know uh, a change in international legal of expectations soon over this issue? yeah, i do see the change. i do see the change of the time just because the only reason i global the mention sweet r o g with the us union people and we d, 's res, belong to the in the general side. now in the end of the apartheid in the long term . but it's going to be a very, a bearing dog, george e, because the assist in the board needs trail and if the weights are,

or if you're on the phone, remember stating, targeting. and so there is a lot more effort turning from civil society that needs to go in just supporting an indian visa, a change of the time, even more meaningful and faxed to the end, and reasonable. thank you very much. toll free of you for, for a great conversation, francesca albany, see jeremy colbin, san pillow friedman. thank you for joining us on inside story. and thank you to for watching. you can always watches program again, any time by visiting our website that ologist era dot com for further discussion. go to our facebook page at facebook dot com, forward slash a inside story. and of course you can join the conversation on x. a handle is at a g inside story from me for the batch boy in the whole team hearing doha, thanks for watching bye. for now, the

unique perspective, the transfer and the displacement of being vision, this population has been discussed as part of design. his project went back for well over a 100 years on heard voices over 9 times. people have these days by the fall of this bombing connect with our community and talking to conversations you will find elsewhere. young people are not looking for a hand, but they're not backed up by a system that supports the stream on out just the or in october 2023. these raising ministry of intelligence proposed the forcible and permanent transfer of palestinians from because the street, the people in power, those just the history of the amount of spinning and displacement. and explores whether clearing palestinians from because the occupied west bank is ready to transfer on. and josie,

september announces 0 us vice president, pamela harris and republican presidential candidates. donald trump faced off in their 1st to the debate. people in power meets environmental campaign is facing a truck down for using direct action protests in germany. the u. p. labor party conference will see new prime minister cure summer outlined. his vision for the future of the country against all enemies examines the link between us military veterans and the american far right groups. the united nations general assembly brings together world leaders for its annual high level to be september on now to 0 . the challenges here with the

carrier you chose to maintain all the top stores. no one else is there is really a tax and goals that have killed at least $43.00 people on tuesday and that's tri court. residential building has killed a child and injured many more essential gauze that it happened after a pause and fighting for his vaccinations ended in general, but not in garza city is very forces have ordered civil defense crews to stop the rescue efforts and evacuate the site of an s trying at least 6 palestinians would kill it, come to nama college, which has been show from displaced people.