like i think, with a tragic attack stung the world, and the us president came in and whispered something into the prisoner's ear. what did he just say to press for the school children present? the events of september, the 11th defined the will, they grew up in just a huge moment. these are the stories. 911, faith witness. oh no. just sierra u. k. government says it will stop some of its arms. x force is ralph hearing the use of certain weapons to break international law. israel's prime minister caused the move shameful and says it will help come on. but what are the implications office associate? this is inside the

hello and welcome to the program. i'm for the back people. the u. k says it's the spending for t license is out of $354.00 arms exports. the israel is for in secretary david loudly made the announcement in parliament. but it's connie, the defense minister has been on the airwaves playing down the impact of the decision. while israel has responded in anger with benjamin netanyahu calling, it's shameful. some u. k. politicians however, say the move is not enough and want a full band on arms exports to israel. so why has a u. k. s don john, i of israel taking this decision now, is it link to international legal action against a one, gaza, and watch the wider international implication. we'll put that to august in just a moment, but 1st this report from side of high, right? so on the same day that israel was burying the bodies of 6 captives hills in garza and palestinians were being killed and israel's relentless foaming of the goal of

the strip. and his reading that 3 rates were being carried out in the occupied westbank. part of the british foreign secretary announced kay's immediate suspension of around the t licenses to export on to israel. it is way through correct that i am food in the house today. the assessment i have received, leaves me unable to conclude anything other than dr. saxon u. k. on this expos to israel. that does exist a clear risk, but they might still commit will facilitate a serious spiders of international humanitarian. the critics say it's not enough since this affects only 30 out of $350.00 u. k. licenses that supply is row with everything from components for military across and drones plus pulse that facilitate ground targeting

from 2022 to june. last year. the use case since may be $75000000.00 worth of weapons to israel view k and says this latest measure is not a blanket fun. and during the effects weapons that could be used in serious breach of international humanitarian rule is ready. prime minister benjamin netanyahu has condemned the decision, quoting, it's shameful. doing with or without the british arms is ro will win. this will unsecure common future. in the u. k, the nation's chief rabbi, says the move big is the least and will only encourage all shed enemies. the british government has faced months of widespread protest against the war in goza, with tens of thousands holding for an end to british homes. exports is ro just last week, the use top diplomatic to sit, bureau, initiated procedures to all member states to consider

a sanctioning. some is rainy ministers. a is there, a is facing accusations of carrying out to genocide against palestinians and the goals restrict, move in 40000 people have been killed since salt. so the 7. and despite the international efforts and knowledge protests and these ro, a sees 5 deal is yet to materialize. so the height of all just there a while, a number of countries of change or um supply arrangements with israel since the will began in february, a dodge corps band, the export of f 355 to just parts to israel side. he concerns about rights violations in gaza, but another court ruling in may allowed x force to other countries like the u. s. which could then send them to israel and denmark. campaign groups have taken legal action against the government to stop objects for caesar, l h l e, which has been one of the largest exporters of arms to israel, has top to new sales, but still continues to honor previous contracts. in march,

canada is parliament voted to freeze arms sales to israel, but it doesn't apply to permits with millions of dollars already approved for those supplied to the us and job. nice for him. cut ties within is really honest manufacturer. after an order from the i. c j in january the for last spring and i guess for today's show in london is jeremy colbin, an independent u. k. member of parliament and the former labor party leader is a long time advocate for the palestinian cause in june. is francesca albany. so united nation special wrap, a tour on the occupied palestinian territories and in gundy in the u. k. some palo freeman, a research coordinator at the campaign against on st. a. u. k based organization working to and the international arms trade. a warm welcome to all of you. thank you so much for being with us today on audra 0 francesca albany seen to and is that

me start with you? how do you view this decision by the british government to suspend some licenses? will it have an actual impact on the ground? would it make a difference for the palestinian people? and i can tell you whether it's going to make any impact why no old artist transfers to each trailer has been suspended. the u. k. i do have stayed in new york running is just one of the civil out, the member states work providing weapons to israel and not a license is being suspended. but let me say, because we need to book this thing call. it seems to me that they have still to register is been next. she represented by the international defend them. and i meant to that occurred in the or there is just to be an international court of justice advisory opinion that declares israel spreads in india,

environmental to buy odyssey in territory local to be dismantled. a need and ration have to be made to the pot experienced dfcs, serious implications for member states who have under the law states, responsibility and obligation not to aid in the us. just the got a g o d organization and at the same time by january 26 this year there are being. 6 a set of additional measures ordered by international court of justice. we transferred the pages that these are, these are meeting genocide in. gotcha. and distribution of measures a lie each member say no to read. and i says, indignation of genocide, this is the call x in which our arms exports, including the transferred over to the oil. and that can be used to wish you

a jack for example, and it should be suspended. yeah, thank you for giving us the context there. it was very important. what do you think then francesca is the purpose of this step by the u. k. government. my assessment is that to the reeds, every combination, an increasing regulation, and then each row is gonna meet g s series of international crimes. and there's a huge pressure in the u. k. and did you know the countries or they did the, the, the, you paid the government and then you pay not being completed in the financial show . the recognition that under the a, the, the, the, the order done by the international court, the job is there might be complicity in the actual general side. so there is a moment of a weakening but a game. and this isn't the beginning and it's still not enough. right, i will ask you about the implications of this the in little while francesca. let me

bring jeremy colbin into the conversation. mr. coleman. david law, me that before and secretary has said that the u. k. has an legal duty to review arms exports. but do you think this decision to suspend some of these licenses is purely legal or are they also political reasons behind this? well, he's required to assess the arms export regime anyway, the previous government do the same. and then it has to do the, the ons export laws. thing legislation requires everybody's government to do that. but at the end of the day, it's a political decision. how much notice you take up the lady, the advice you received on the time you're allowing yesterday and now to see what kind of suspense seals last test i to 350. but then went onto the site that this wouldn't damage israel's ability to defend itself from to die. the defense secretary john heavy is gone a bit for to essentially say it doesn't make very much difference. and so you may

ask yourself the question, is that supplement to go to the section in order to try and look as though they're listening to international law, or is it something they're very serious about? i'm honestly not sure what the onto that is. yesterday i asked for clarification from david lama on the question of the use of, of british prices in cyprus. the vices reign cypress are handled by the rule that force these are suffering by some sort of problem missions, the separate government. they have been used for flights of gauze um by taking plans directly into israel. and i honest, if this is going to stop or not quite clearly, deluxe, the other thing is on this section lapse and the use of british weapons in the face off both the i c, j view on genocide acts of genocide and the i. c. c decision to

arrest why issue arrest warrants for song is really the leaders actually leaves britain very vulnerable because parts of the upset he tried chess all night in britain, britain and still supplies a lot of other weapons to israel. so i don't think the legal case against britain is actually finished yet. the may well be legal action taken against britain or after will often product itself has been, the country always holds international law. so i remain skeptical this decision will take us very much further. i'm sorry, my big worry, but we're compress it in the coming of now over 40000 people in gauze. right. and the arrest warrants haven't, haven't been issued yet. so let me get your, your thoughts about what we heard from both francesca and jeremy colbin and your thoughtful to do you think this is a purely legal decision or are they political aspects of play?

also here, i think the government was under lots of post political and legal pressure. those outraging the country about the u. k. being consistent in genocide, that is a legal case coming up in the side of the government's be taken to quote, a rich refusal to suspend the export licenses. so i think in, in some ways they must have felt a, that it was inevitable that they couldn't avoid making some of those. but there was a huge hiring exemption loophole in this, in the site. her exempted components for the 2nd 5. after off, you k produces 15, the science of f, 3 x, $35.00, so long as those components go via the country, usually to us. so you called now tech support has $35.00 parts direct. the to is ro side, there's a clear wrist. they might be use, commit serious violations of i show. right. but they can go this, it was right,

it looks like go via the us. exactly. so, so what, why do you use the 5 components this? what do you think you have 35 components weren't included in the suspension. is it also in the interest of relations? uh, in the interest of relations with the us and the larger arms industry at the are the industry, at least the old boot. israel only got a small propulsion of all the stuff and find space overall. yes, 35 programs. what do you see? you paying industry b, i a system. some of your calculations made over a 1000000000 pounds invested you from the button bike program last year. according to that item, you will report. so that's the rule. countries not just is vile. and so yes, um the government is making up excuses about disrupting global supply chain, right? they could, so the most is vile from the list of authorized destination. so they could tell the

us, we supplies these pots for the, the bike, but international i'm british law requires that we do not allow them to go to israel. but they do not want to jeopardize their relationship with us that slice in the us and by program. and so they are come, be not with this cutting related to the excuse, the sanctioning makes no rules as they go alone to accept the ex 35. and this was yesterday on the very day we had. so the 1st time that the confirmation that's on the x bus and fi was used to a tech um oh i see so called sites uh in guns up with 32000 pound problems selling 90 people. and that's 3515 percent, which is made in the u. k. u k, is chosen by this bear with me saying that his vial is not following international

. ready law, but they are choosing to remain consistent with this writing more funds for the sake of the items industry and relations with us. all right, francesca. let me ask you about the, the wider legal implications of this decision that does this decision to a, to suspend some of these licenses? does it shield or steer the u. k. a way in any way from the legal concerns of complicity and the genocide in gaza instead of sort of you know, it doesn't shoot because it's not enough to um to comply it to the list we that both of the i c j advisory opinion, which is based on the not the role law and the i see change original majors concerning the genocide kids. so. ringback nice to see should i need a pronouncement. they require every member stage to reevaluate their engagement. we

set up with these rules and opposed international law because i don't doing that re further normalizing your division and further enrolled in the multilateral systems, international based order. so there is a food guide to the options that need to be taken in order, and it keeps going in and coding, then you pay should do it. you need to just say we set all the community, very strategic supermodel, good political or the partnership that has to meet the with these ro, but the franchise to clarify what does the u. k. risk today, both domestically and internationally, by continuing with the status. cool. so let me say that lisa, a meeting having supported israel's, the 57 year old on role in denver. it's off. mean that's pretty hiring moment. but now under the circumstances, any likely what is happening in ga gov. the general scientist has already be for me

sitting down and there are serious ways that there is, as you know, over on the west bank, there is a risk that the u. k. government makes it so can police it with ok. so j assign okay. jeremy cold in your thoughts and why do you think there is this ingrained official reluctance in the u. k. to to think about suspending arms sales to israel despite the pressure from from both the public and political parties on both sides of the us. there is a very deep uh, security relationship between britain and israel, and it's me of a flying unintelligence that's collected from ga so, but the really levels there is an enormous pressure, hopefully supporters of israel, both in the u. k. parliament time to the media. and there is a very strong opposition mounted against palestinian opinion and

people in britain. so i think there's a combination of factors there, but it's also a very strong involving from the audience industry. now how much industry is very powerful in 30 back in britain, they have a huge numbers of government contracts and international contracts be a systems as an enormous manufacturer in britain. and they are very reluctant to see any restriction allows supplies anywhere in the world. so all those reasons and so what i'm tired already tried to do yesterday was demonstrated that somehow or other he is called nice and over the issues of human rights abuses in costs are well, who isn't present here in happening for a long time. and the he sold by making the site or do with some are of the kind of the very strong opposition to the strategy in the labor party, the most others in on thing creating my own group. and that he would come out of it

as a somebody, it was getting on better with the pro palestinian opinion in britain. he hasn't actually achieved only what he's dog is upset. a whole lot of people who are very pro is royal. who believes that somehow or other he's actually seriously restrict taking off some lives to his royal. but he hasn't placed any of us who wants to seek a suspension or by the, by the their response to that. jeremy colbin is that, you know, if they're upsetting both israel and the us and, and, you know, they're allies with this decision as well as upsetting those in the u. k. who wants a full band on arms x force and they say that they, they're doing something right? well, i don't believe they're doing something right when i see an end to the bottom to go, is there an end to the killing of innocent civilians in children in gaza? there is nothing right about what is right is doing at the present time. they are committing acts of genocide on we should be acting accordingly in accordance with

international law, from the i c j. and of course, when the i c c arrest warrants of finally issued, we should act on the rest of those people that wants to be new. suit against. yeah, francesca interesting. lee, the british foreign secretary has said there isn't enough reliable evidence to make a definitive conclusion that israel has violated international humanitarian law. well, what do you make a visit and what more evidence do you think they, they need to, to prove that british weapons are being used against by this to me is not just in gaza, but also in the occupied westbank as we've seen recently. well, 1st of all, i disagree we seem because there is no evidence but doesn't matter. it doesn't matter because in order to know to violate the genocide convention, which would be the condition of preventive general side members, they need to both dr. ways a deep obligation not to uh,

support a state that might be for meeting general side. and again, the member states have been to know is that there is this read the 26th of january this year. so i will do respect to whatever the assessment of the for him, secretary, the mobilization team goes by a giant genocide. prevention are very so clear. and even if genocide had not been completed yet because there is a risk, there isn't nobody gets sent to prevent the head for full relations, especially mediators, strategic relations have to be suspended. okay, i'll ask you in a bit about these reports that the u. k. might be dropping it, subjection to the i. c. c. arrest warrant for he's really neat. is when there is one. and what do you think the significance of that will be? i just wanted to, to bring back some into the conversation and ask you some, a little bit more about the type of security corporation that exist right now

between the you can use around all of a more arms that are being supplied at the moment to israel. and then then what the export license is, approve what, what's the extent of corporation that is a british government being uh, fully transparent about it a lot. so the trans byron, the financial, if it goes we sometimes here, floated only applies one side, the single individual export license. but most of you k owns exports to israel. go through open licenses and especially the open license for the ex 35 companies are registered for that. they don't need individual licenses to explore anything. so any of the countries in both in the ex 35 and we don't have to size because the government doesn't smaller to deliveries. but we estimate the value of u. k. components and that's fucking 5 so far supply to as low as $39.00 of them

is about 4 fox, $360000000.00 pounds since since 2016. and that does not even include sped offs. that's just the initial manufacturer of the u. k. is this being the same share as also a lot of other ukiah equipment that goes to israel in direct slate. so licenses which affects both to the us of components which are then pushed back, assembled into lots of equipment, side to rack or off to whatever that is. so to me, as i mean, i don't even know if any of those licenses those in the licenses of being suspended or if it's just the direct effects. bolts do is via punch is really an attraction for title and, and what about those countries that are suspended uh that they're on sale stories where i like spain, for example. what impact has that had some unfortunately,

not very much as the countries that have suspended on sales a lot to be the ones that want uh, supplying very much any case. and in cases like the netherlands, again, unfortunately the cold. so the loud. ready this new paul no direct deck sports, but the in direct set sports via the us or other countries doc, so okay, so the 35, it seems that everyone treats this global supply chain. so to get the bibles absolutely. psych cribs and coming before international law of the genocide convention as the drug test. uh, the thoughts about this to be the absolute priority through any country. okay, mr. coleman, what, what next to you then i, i know you formed a group of independent employees to campaign against, on sales against israel, among other things. what impact do you think your group can make you?

you're surrounded by a labor party that's very much pro israel. the tories were very much pro israel as well. what difference? what impact do you think you can make with this group? well, we're very clear which part of us that we are wanting to then state home sales to israel. and we want to say pace for the palestinian painful not means and i'm just the agenda side of the barn. no, we don't have a char seen problems. obviously we're nowhere near the. however, there are large numbers of labor and pays who are very concerned about this feeling any numerous amount of oppression from the constituents in many parts of the country, the labor product went down in the race in general election, 30 significantly little odd shape because of issues surrounding garza, the demonstrations have increased in size, not decreased in size. the popular support for the palestinian people is bigger than another in my lifetime, so we will be opting out, okay, offering our account primary. i'm going are more and more making the cakes. and in

the, on sales to israel, so saved lives. and i think there's actually a significant number of people in israel, the beginning to realize that from the demonstrations yesterday, the government does go to do something in order to end the all compression. and then the continue bump up until the cost of francesca albany see i'll give you the last word. do you see the tie changing now with this rushing up of public pressure as jeremy mentioned, and also political pressure. did you see, do you know uh, a change in international legal of expectations soon over this issue? yeah, i do see the change. i do see the change of the time just because i know totally very soon a global or move mention sony. dire gee, with the finest union people and we d 's race onto the, in the general side. now in the end of the apartheid in the long term. but it's

going to be a very a bearing the jordy, because the fish in the board needs trail. and is it a week's or, or if you're on the phone, remember, stating, targeting. and so there is a lot more effort turning from civil society that needs to go in just supporting and making these a change of time even more meaningful and faxed to the end and reasonable. thank you very much. toll free of you for, for a great conversation, francesca albany, see jeremy colbin, san pillow friedman. thank you for joining us on inside story. and thank you to for watching. you can always watches program again, any time by visiting our website that ologist era dot com for further discussion. go to our facebook page at facebook dot com, forward slash a inside story. and of course you can join the conversation on x. i handle is at a g inside store for me, for the batch board and a whole team here in doha. thanks for watching bye for now,

the in september. now it's a 0 us vice president, pamela harris and republican presidential candidates. donald trump faced off in their 1st to the debate. people in power meets environmental campaign is facing a truck down for using direct action protests in germany. the labor party conference will see new prime minister cure summer outlined his vision for the future of the country. against all enemies examines the link between us military veterans and the american far right groups. the united nations general assembly brings together will leaders for its annual high level debate. september on know to 0 summer days in this about the libya is 3rd largest city and economic hub. private development like this beach resort in recent

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they were just people empower, investigate, exposes, and questions they use and abuse of power around the globe. finality there on the i'm about to send in to honda top stories and i'll just say we're going to begin and god. so for at least 43 people have died in his many attacks on tuesday and a so i kind of residential building has killed a child in central garza. many people have been injured. that happened after the end of a pause and fighting for polio, vaccinations in general. butler and gaza city is ready for it is a voted civil defense cruise to stop for rescue efforts and evacuate the area of an air strike. at least 6 potter stimulates, have been killed in the attack on the number called each.