long and lice the next aisle is hard of to 0 words l duty gere loan a she venue ok to firms with hope, but now face flows that keep them from retiring with the funding the she buy these bits of bread on just a u. k. government says it will stop some of its arms, x force that is ralph hearing the use of certain weapons to break international law . israel's prime minister calls the move shameful and says it will help come on. but what are the implications office associate? this is inside the hello and welcome to the program. i'm for the back to bolt. the u. k says it's

suspending for t license is out of $350.00 for arms exports. the israel is for and secretary david lam. he made the announcement in parliament, but his connie, the defense minister, has been on the airwaves playing down the impact of the decision, while israel has responded in anger with benjamin netanyahu calling. it's shameful . some u. k. politicians, however, say the move is not enough. and want a full band on arms exports to israel. so why has a u. k. s don john, i of israel taking this decision now, is it link to international legal action against a one, gaza, and what's the wider international implication? we'll put that to august in just a moment, but 1st this report from side of high right. on the same day that his role was burying the bodies of 6 cops is held in garza and palestinians were being killed and israel's relentless foaming of the goal of the strip. and i'm

just reading that too. rates were being carried out in the occupied westbank part of the british foreign secretary and out. so you case immediate suspension of around the t licenses to export on to israel. it is richard grant that i am food in the house today. the assessment i have received, leaves me unable to conclude anything other than dr saxon u. k. on is that supposed to israel? that does exist a clear risk that they might still commit will facilitate a serious spiders of international humanitarian. the critics say it's not enough since this affects only the tea out of $350.00 u. k. licenses that supply is row with everything from components for military across and drones plus pulse that facilitate ground targeting from 2022 to june. last year. the use case then maybe $75000000.00 worth of weapons

to israel view k and says this latest measure is not a blanket, fine, and don't. the effects weapons that could be used in serious breach of international humanitarian rule is ready. prime minister benjamin netanyahu has condemned the decision quoting its shameful. doing with or without british arms is ro will win. this will unsecure a common future. in the u. k, the nation's chief rabbi, says the move big is the least and will only encourage all shed enemies. the british government has faced months of widespread protest against the war in goza, with tens of thousands holding for an end to british owns exports. to is ro a just last week the used top diplomatic to sit barrel initiated procedures to all member states to consider a sanctioning. some is rainy ministers. is early spacing,

accusations of carrying out to genocide against palestinians in the gulf strip. move in, 40000 people have been killed since or so, but 7 and just by its international efforts and launch protests and israel. a seas 5 deal is yet to materialize. sort of height of all to 0 while a number of countries of change your um, supply arrangements with israel since the war began. in february, a dodge court banned the export of f 355 to just parts to israel side. he concerns about rights violations in gaza, but another court ruling in may allowed x force to other countries like the u. s. which could then send them to israel and denmark. campaign groups have taken legal action against the government to stop objects for 308 to lee, which has been one of the largest exporters of arms to israel, has top to new sales, but still continues to honor previous contracts and march canada upon them and

voted to freeze arms sales to israel, but it doesn't apply to permits with millions of dollars already approved, although is supplied through the us and job a nice for him. cut ties within is really arms manufacturer after an order from the i. c. j in january. the the last spring and i guess for today's show in london is jeremy colbin, an independent u. k. member of parliament. and the former labor party leader is a long time advocate for the palestinian cause in june. is francesca albany. so united nation special wrap, a tour on the occupied palestinian territories and in gundy in the u. k. some palo freeman, a research coordinator at the campaign against on st. a. u. k based organization working to and the international arms trade. a warm welcome to all of you. thank you so much for being with us today. on audra 0 francesca albany, see, and june is let me start with you. how do you view this decision by the british

government to suspend some licenses? will it have an actual impact on the ground? would it make a difference for the palestinian people? and i can tell you whether it's going to make any impact why no o artist transfers to each trailer has been suspended. the u. k. i do have stayed in deal pending is just one of the civil out. the member states was providing weapons to israel and not a license is being suspended. but let me say, because we need to book this thing call. it seems to me that they have still to register this next sheet represented by the international demand. the minute i mentioned that occurred in the, or there is just to be an international court of justice advisory opinion that declares israel spreads in india, environmental defined hottest in territories,

laudable, to be dismantled, the need and relations have to be made to the bottom. the dfcs, serious implications for vendor states who have under the law states, responsibility and obligation not to aid in the us. just the got a g o d organization and at the same time, by january 26th this year there are being a set of additional measures ordered by international justice. we transferred the pages that these are, these are meeting jo side in. gotcha. and distribution of measures applying to member say no to the aid and she's an integration of genocide. this is the call dicks in which are our exports, including the transferred over to the all. and that can be used to wish you would just for example, to be suspended. yeah, thank you for giving us

a context there. it was very important. what do you think then francesca is the purpose of this step by the u. k. government. my assessment is that to the reeds, every combination, an increasing regulation that east road east will meet g s series of international crimes. and there's a huge pressure in the u. k. and did you know the countries or they did the, the, the, you paid the government a in then you have not being completed in the financial should the recognition that under the a, the, the, the, the order done by the international court, the job is there might be complicity in the actual journal side. so there is a moment of a weakening but again, and this isn't the beginning and it's still not enough. right? i will ask you about the implications of this the in little while francesca. let me bring jeremy, pull that into the conversation. mr. coleman. david, allow me that before and secretary has said that the u. k. has

a legal duty to review arms exports. what do you think this decision to suspend some of these licenses is purely legal or are they also political reasons behind this? well, he's required to assess the arms export regime anyway. the previous government did the side and then it has to do the, the onset export laws. thing legislation requires every british government to do that. but at the end of the day, it's a political decision. how much notice you take of the lady to advise to proceed on the timing allowing yesterday and now to see what kind of suspense he owns. last test i to 350. but then when told me to sign the lease mortgage damage israel's ability to defend itself from to tie the defense secretary john avi, is gone a bit further to essentially say it doesn't make very much difference. and so you may ask yourself, the question, is they supplement to go to the section in order to try and look as though they're

listening to international law? or is it something they're very serious about? i'm honestly not certain what the answer to that is. yesterday i am asked for clarification from david lama. you're on the question of the use of, of the british prices in cyprus. the vices in cyprus are held by the rule of that force. these also written by so sort of the bottom missions, the separate government. they have been used for flights over gauze and buying, taking planes directly into israel. and i asked if this is going to stop or not quite clearly, deluxe. the other thing is on this section lapse and the use of british weapons in the face off both the i c, j view on genocide acts of genocide and the i c. c to section to

arrest. why is your arrest warrants, or some is really the leaders actually leads britain very vulnerable because parts of the upset he projects all night in britain, britain still supplies a lot of other weapons to israel. so i don't think the legal case against britain is actually finished yet the main will be legal action taken against britain or officer will often project itself has being the country is always holds international law. so i remain skeptical that this decision will take us very much further. and my big worry that we have compressed it in the coming of now over 40000 people in gosh, right. and the arrest warrants haven't, haven't been issued yet. so let me get your, your thoughts about what we heard from both francesca and jeremy colbin and your thoughtful to do you think this is a purely legal decision or are they political aspects of play? also here, i think the government was under a lot of 1st political and legal pressure. those outraging the country about the u

. k. being consistent in genocide, that is a legal case coming up in october when the governments be taken to quote, a rich refusal to suspend the export licenses. so i think in, in some ways they must so, or that it was inevitable that they couldn't avoid making some of those. but there was a huge hiring exemption. a loophole in this, in the site. her exempted components for the 2nd 5 ass off you k for uses 15 percent of s. we x $35.00, so long as those components go via the country usually to us. so you called now expos at certain 5 pos directly to his right. oh, they said there's a clear risk they might use. commit serious violations of i show. right? but they can go this, it was royal if i go by of the us. exactly. so, so what,

why do you use the 5 components of this? why do you think you have $35.00 components weren't included in the suspension? is it also in the interest of relations in the interest of relations with the us and the larger arms industry or the are the industrial they the, um, old boot. israel only get a small propulsion of all the stuff and find space overall. yes, 35 programs. what do you see you paying in the straight b i a system. somebody in your case alterations made over a 1000000000 pounds invested you from the button point program last year, according to that item you will report. so that's the rule. countries not just is vile. and so, yes um, do you kind of government is making up excuses about disrupting global supply chain, right? they could, so the most is vile from the list of authorized destination. so they could tell the us, we supplies these pos for the sudden fine,

but international. i'm british law requires that we do not allow them to go to israel, but they do not want to jeopardize their relationship with us that slice in the us and by program. and so they are come be not with this totally related excuse. this actually makes no rules as they go along to accept the assets and 5. and this was yesterday on the very day we had. so the 1st time definite confirmation, that's an act xbox and fi was use to attack. let's see. so called sites and guns up with 32000 pound phones, silly 90 people. and that's 30 by 15 percent, which is made in the you time. the chain is chosen by this 3rd mixing the his vial is not following international law,

but they are choosing to remain consistent with this rectangle funds for the sake of their homes, industry and relations with us. all right, francesca, let me ask you about the wider legal implications of this decision that does this decision to a, to suspend some of these licenses? does it shield or tier the u. k. a way in any way from the legal concerns of complicity in the genocide and got it set up soon as you know, it doesn't shoot, but it's not enough to to comply it to the list we that both of the i c j advisory opinion, which is based on not 0 level law, and with the i c, j provisional measures concerning the genocide kids. so need to see, should i need a pronouncement, require every member stage to reevaluate their engagement. we set up with these route and opposed international law because they're not doing that re further

normalizing your condition and further enrolled in the natural systems international based order. so there is a food guide to options that need to be taken in order and give you core mint and coding. then you pay should do a, judy johnson, we assess old economic community dri, strategic prologic, and political for the $5.00 inch deep that you have to meet the with each route. but let me just off the front, just to clarify, what does the u. k. risk today, both domestically and internationally, by continuing with this data school principal, let me say that lisa k meeting having supported israel's was 57 year old on lawful. and dave are exhausting that. pretty. hiring moment. but now under the circumstances, any likely what is happening in ga gov, the general scientists has already be for me to engage in there are serious risk

that varies as you know over onto the west bank. there was a risk that the u. k. government makes it so called police it with oxygen and sign . okay, jeremy cold in your thoughts and why do you think there is this ingrained official reluctance in the u. k. to, to think about suspending arms sales to israel despite the pressure from, from both the public and political parties on both sides of the eye. there is a very deep security relationship between britain and israel, and the other fly unintelligence has collected from gaza. but that you really left for us. there is an enormous pressure, hopefully supporters of israel, both in the u. k. parliament time the media. and there is a very strong opposition mounted against palestinian opinion and people in britain. so i think there's a combination of factors there,

but it's also a very strong loving from the audience industry. now, how much industry is very powerful and very big in britain, they have a huge numbers of government contracts and international contracts. the systems is an enormous manufacturer in britain, and they are very reluctant to see any restriction on supplies anywhere in the world. so all those reasons. and so what i'm tired already tried to do yesterday was demonstrated that somehow or other he is cognizant over the issues of human rights abuses in the costs are well, who isn't present? been happening for a long time. and then he sold by making the site or do with some other other the kind of the very strong opposition to the strategy in the labor party, the most others in on thing creating my own group. and that he would come out of it as a somebody, it was getting on better with the pro palestinian opinion in britain. he hasn't

actually achieved only what he's done is upset. a whole lot of people who are very pro is royal. who believes that somehow or other he's actually seriously restrict taking off some lives to his royal. but he hasn't placed any of us who wants to seek a suspension or by the, by the response to that. jeremy colbin is that, you know, if they're upsetting both israel and the us and, and, you know, they're allies with this decision as well as upsetting those in the u. k. who want a full band on arms x force. and they say that they, they're doing something right. well, i believe they're doing something right. when i see an end to the bottom to go, is there an end to the killing of innocent civilians in children in gaza? there is nothing right about what is right is doing at the present time. they are committing acts of genocide and we should be acting accordingly in accordance with international law, from the i c j. and of course, when the i c. c. arrest warrants of finally issued we should ask the rest of those

people that morning. so we need a suit against. yeah, a francesca. interesting lee, the british foreign secretary has said there isn't enough reliable evidence to make a definitive conclusion that israel has violated international humanitarian law. what do you make a visit and what more evidence do you think they, they need to, to prove that british weapons are being used against by this to me is not just in gaza, but also in the occupied westbank as we've seen recently. well, 1st of all, i disagree we seem because there is enough evidence but doesn't matter. it doesn't matter because in order to know to violate the genocide convention, which would be the condition of preventive general side members, they need to both dr. ways a deep obligation not to uh, support a state that might be for meeting general side. and again,

the member states have been to know is that there is this rest of the 26th of january this year. so i will do respect to whatever the assessment of the for him secretary, the mobilization seen goes by a giant genocide. prevention are very so clear. and even if genocide had not been completed yet because there is a risk, there isn't nobody gets sent to prevent the head for full relations, especially mediators, strategic relations have to be suspended. okay, i'll ask you in a bit about these reports that the u. k. might be dropping its objection to the i c . c. arrest warrant for he's really leaders when there is one. and what do you think the significance of that will be? i just wanted to, to bring back some into the conversation and ask you some, a little bit more about the type of security corporation that exist right now between the you can use around all of a more arms that are being supplied at the moment to israel. and then then what the

export license is approved, what, what's the extent of cooperation that is a british government to be fully transparent about a lot. so the trans byron, the financial fit goes we sometimes here floated only applies one type, a single individual export license. but most of u. k. homes exports to israel go through open licenses, and especially the license for the ex 35 companies are registered so that they don't need individual licenses to explore anything. so any of the countries involved in the ex, 35 and we don't have to size because the government doesn't smaller to deliveries. but we estimate the value of u. k. components and that's fucking 5 sofa supplied to as well. that's, that's 9 of them is about full fox,

360000000 pounds since since 2016. and that does not even include sped off. so that's just the initial manufacturer of the u. k. is this being the same share? and then as also a lot of other ukiah equipment that goes to israel in direct slate. so licenses which affects both to the us of components which are then i pushed the assembled into the larger equipment side to rack or off to whatever that is. so to me, as i mean, i don't even know if any of those licenses those in the licenses of being suspended or if it's just the direct steps. volts do is via ranch is really an attraction for title. and what about those countries that are suspended? uh, they're on sale stories where i like spain, for example. what impact has that had some unfortunately,

not very much as the countries that have suspended on sales a lot to be the ones that was a supine, very much any case. and in cases like the netherlands, again unfortunately the cold, so the loud. ready this new paul no direct deck sports, but the in direct set sports via the us or other countries. not so. okay, so the 35, it seems that everyone treats this global supply chain for the bibles, absolute excite cribs and coming before international law. and the genocide convention is because the broadcast uh, the thoughts about this to be the absolute priority through any country. okay. mr. coleman, what, what next to you then i, i know you formed a group of independent employees to campaign against, on sales against israel, among other things. what impact do you think your group can make you? you're surrounded by a labor party that's very much pro israel. the tories were very much pro israel as

well. what difference? what impact do you think you can make with this group? well, we're pretty clear which part of us that we are wanting to them, the arm sales to israel. and we want to say pace for the palestinian painful not means and i'm just the agenda sort of the bottom. no, we're not which are seen problems obviously we're no one is not. however, there are large numbers of labor and pays who are very concerned about this feeling any numerous amount of oppression from the constituents in many parts of the country, the labor product went down in the race in general election, 30 significantly little odd shape because of issues surrounding garza, the demonstrations have increased in size, not decreased in size. the popular support for the palestinian people is bigger than known in my lifetime, so we will be opting out, okay, offering our account. i mean, i'm going or more and more making the cakes and is it on sales to israel to assign

you to lives. and i think there's actually a significant number of people in israel, the beginning to realize that from the demonstrations yesterday, the government does go to do something in order to end the all compression and then to continue bump up until the cost of francesca albany see i'll give you the last word, do you see the ty changing now with this ratcheting up of public pressure as jeremy mentioned, and also political pressure? did you see, do you know uh, a change in international legal of expectations soon over this issue? yeah, i do see the change. i do see the change of the time just because i know totally there isn't a global or move mention sony. dire gee, with the finest union people and we d 's race onto the in the general side. now in the end of the apartheid in the long term. but it's going to be a very, very involved already because to assist them in israel and is there a week or,

or you're on the phone, remember stating god and, and, and so there is a lot more effort turning from civil society that needs to go in just supporting an indian visa, a change of the time, even more meaningful and faxed to the end. invisible. thank you very much. toll free of you for, for a great conversation, francesca albany see jeremy colbin, san pillow friedman. thank you for joining us on inside story. and thank you to for watching, you can always watches program again, any time by visiting our website that ologist era dot com for further discussion. go to our facebook page at facebook dot com, forward slash a inside story. and of course you can join the conversation on x. a handle is at a g inside story for me, for the batch boy in the whole team hearing doha, thanks for watching bye. for now, the

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the, this is alta 0 and daddy you navigate that with a check on your world headlines is really military has targeted a residential building and base not yet northern gauze, killing of these 6 palestinians in gaza. city civil defense crews are digging out dozens of people believes to be trapped under the rubble. after is really a tax. 40 to palestinians have been killed in the last 24 hours. the strikes took place following a brief pause in fighting the allowed medical workers to vaccinate children against polio. thought about zoom.