of all sara, terry and wake up one day. this system has been turned from an electric old lock into a competitive look at the loss of power in hungary for the experiences of those who leave it every day. there is a pat shut on us, but she has to be very careful, of course, and we have to be big enough to support that pressure. how democracy dies. democracy may be on al. jazeera doubled from says no to another debate who's coming to harris in the us. the presidential election? he claims he one choose days, head to head, but fundraisers tell a different story with a deluge of donations for harris the next day. so what's next for both campaigns? this is inside store, the

low, the airline, james bays. donald trump says he won't do a 2nd tv debate with cumberland harris and the us presidential election campaign planning. he doesn't need to see one last. tuesday's head to head decisively that north of you shed by many independent political commentators not by campaign donors either with a wind full going harris's way in the 24 hours off to a hotel advised you with trump. presidential elections are a lot more complicated to costs than tv debates, but they are especially important this year with the last one burying jo biden's campaign. and the 1st to meet you have any time between trump and harris with c. but both comments is a critical moment trumps t. my rolled out to get some of the take away lines such as immigrants dining on cats and dogs. snacks from the american owners acclaim wildly with the killed since then, harris as poked fun. that drums performance of her riley's while his side say she's

avoiding substance detail. is this a defining week in the election, and will it be a 2nd debate will on so those questions and more with all panel of guess in a moment. but 1st, this report from laurel com us campaign season is in full swing presidential candidate. comalla harris is in north carolina. and donald trump in arizona. how is does increase a slight lead in opinion polls following a debate on choose, say, the money, say she came out as a winner and she wants a delta show down. i believe we oh, i have another debate because this election and what is as they it could not be more important punch. trump ruled the south and said he was the victim. we've done to debate so because they were successful, there will be no 3rd debate. we find that the national level that here,

this isn't the lead relative to trump. but on those key fundamentals issues like the economy and inflation. r trunk ultimately has the leads. in their televised presidential debate on tuesday night, trump had been expected to focus on the democrats track record on immigration, a leading policy, and the trump campaign were bought when questioned. seem to fall into a trump set by harris on that issue. people start leaving his rallies early out of exhaustion and board and why did you try to kill that bill and successfully? so that would have put thousands of additional agents and officers on the board. first, i may respond as to the really nice people don't leave my rallies with the biggest rallies. some on list said it was traps like this. the put trump on the back foot, coming across as defensive, annoyed and often unstable women. when trump did mention immigration, he gave an unsubstantiated claim of patient immigrants in springfield, ohio,

consuming pets, are eating the dogs, the people that came in there, eating the cat. yet again towards the end of the debate. trump challenge harris on inflation on the present joy bite. and horace is often criticized but not clearly defining her policies. and she didn't this time, but she did use the moments to learn to punch. clearly i am not jo pine and i am certainly not donald trump. and what i do offer is a new generation of leadership for our country. and she reflected this logan as a rowdy in north carolina. i said it, then i said, now it's time to turn the page. and although trump, cats and dogs statements gained much ridicule, he continued down. but paul residents are reporting that the migraines are walking off with the town goose. they taking the goose trump and how i saw almost neck and neck in the race to the white house. and with trump turning down another face to

face, they have until november to entice on the side of bosis, whether it be through policy hype, or enthusiasm. nor count the inside story l to 0, the well with just the 50 days until election day on november, the 5th. let's discuss all of this with all 3 guests today who are in the us 1st in washington dc. we have jo malcolm vice president of the institute for constitutional government at the heritage foundation. he's also a former us federal prosecutor in brunswick. andrew language, he's thomas bracket, read profess of government, don't college. and the washington dc joy cheney political strategist and domestic legal policy x. but thank you all 3 of you for joining us today on the inside story . as we look at where the us election campaign stands, well, we know what donald trump trump says. he says he will not debate on tuesday. joy

did he either be american. people have spoken. he definitely did not win. and if he had one he'd be having a 3rd debate. so pick it up for me. um andrew, um even trumps allies saying that he had a bad night. how bad was it? well i don't think there are many people outside the very inner trump circles who are saying that he won what they're telling him. i'm not sure, but it certainly was not a night where he took advantage of his us. the opportunity is to press home his main points on policies like immigration or the cost of living. he allowed the vice president to define him in some ways. and i think that's going to be, you know, rank, letting him somewhere and certainly rank link is allies that he did not allow himself to stay on focused. so he was distracted by attacks as we saw in raleigh size, the go to about issues regarding his various criminal and civil trials. uh,

january 6th. you know, a lot of the things were brought up. he didn't really want to answer directly or double down on positions. he's taking that are quite on popular. so i don't think it helped him very much at all in the wider range of things that said things are very close. john, you are a republican. let's get your view on this and, and where it stands because, i mean, if you just look a few months back, it was, i think, 61 days ago that was, that trump assassination attempt which he survived, which everyone's thought may have made him unassailable. but then of course, the debate was press the button bite and pulling out a good convention for a couple of hours. and now this debate, it's a complete transformation. is it not? yeah, i think that's right. obviously, a lot of the stories of unexpected events. campbell harris did not have to run the gauntlet a primary season with debates against her competitors. she's only done one television interview. it was uh with a journalist. it was with

a friendly journalist and she had to waltz there to help. i will not get inside or to the top of ministration. i don't work for the campaign. this may be the one thing, the joy and i agree on during the course of this meeting, which is i do think the tamela harris got the better of donald trump. during that debate he, you know, he lets things get under his skin and he gets distracted and goes off on tangents. and she did a very effective job of poking him and getting under his skin. she of course, didn't answer a lot of the questions from the moderators and 1st moderator asked the question, are you better off in terms of the you gentlemen, situation that you weren't 4 years ago? didn't answer that. do you believe in any restrictions on abortion? she didn't answer that, the moderators let her get away with that. and sort of donald trump, because he got distracted by these uh, various impacts on him that he felt the need to respond to. i think, i think, somewhat to his detriment, how much of an effect that's going to have on the election. it's very hard to say, because the reality is, is that all of these calls within the margin of error in the entire election is

going to come down. what happens in about 6 or 7 states. but andrew, if he says no to another debate and she wants another debate, doesn't do that in the minds of american people, make him look like the coward as well to the degree. people are paying attention to that level of detail. um, certainly, i, you know, i wouldn't be shocked. in fact, if he did decide ultimately that he would accept another debate crushingly, of course, because he's not going to concede that he didn't win the 1st debate. but ultimately, you know, the harris camp wants another debate from camp, maybe needs another debate. i wouldn't be shocked if we saw somebody come around. remember that the former president said he was going to do this debate a while ago. and you know, while he is missing, having present buying us as opponents, he is now, i think a little we should be at least a little better prepared for another go around with vice president harris. so, you know, i wouldn't say it's necessarily the last word on the subject. john,

would you agree with that, depending on what the polls say when we get back to polling on on, on the outcome of this the pipe debate, if he thinks that he is well behind in the polls that he could lose the election. he's got a great deal of stay cousin to hear because it's not just winning a being president. he's got those court cases against him, potentially his pre, that was a mistake here. do you think he might, he might change his mind and have a debate off the rules. i doubt it. there's a vice president vice presidential debate and scheduled for october. first, he's spending a lot of time as his capital harris in those swing states. he's doing large distinguish rallies, he's doing tele forums. he's doing the interviews with the with journalist. that's something i, campbell, a harris, isn't doing. and i suppose if you could accuse her of being a coward, i'm not going to do that. i think about these camp page at their strategist that are, are laying out a ground game. you know, body has already started in

a couple of states in terms of absentee and mail and balloting. and they're going to do what they think it's gonna, you know, it's going to take to get their candidate across the finish line. so if we know what harris's campaign is saying that she wants another debate, but in some ways, does she really need another debate? she won. she slade, the dragon that will stay the narrative. if there isn't a 2nd to bite. she doesn't need a 2nd debate. she has already, you know, made the case and made it clear who donald trump is and more importantly who he is now. she can go direct to consumer and she's always been doing. she can do rallies, she can be online, and i know that there's a lot of critique that she hasn't done mainstream media. but most americans are, i'm looking at the, an in, or image cnbc or any of these major news outlet. they're getting their news in other ways, new media ways and she is all over those outlets. so she will do the traditional media. she's been vice president for 40 years. she's done

a lot of interviews. so people know that she can do those interviews. she's already done one, it's totally normal to have the vice president, the presidential candidates, do an interview together that makes them, she'll do others. but more importantly, she's going directly to the voters because ultimately that's what matters. democrats have learned that you can be all over the network news, but at the end of the day, you have to reach consumers where they are and they're not always on those big network news visions, they're actually, you know, paying attention to social media, paying attention to the video that she puts out in gauging with a non traditional media engaging on the campaign trail, we are not doing this. they are not doing this in a traditional way. they're doing it in a way that they know will be right for this time. and will, when we are not going back actually that and that means you have to trick take different tactics. so we're real thrilled about that. and one thing designs that i

want to counter, they said that she didn't answer. you said that she didn't answer questions about the economy. yeah, absolutely answered questions about the economy and of course, and she said she supported restoring row, which had some restrictions on, on abortion. so i don't wanna, you know, suggested that she didn't answer those questions. he absolutely did any of donald trump that been smart. he would have doubled down on the economy. he would have double down on immigration instead of making up other other, you know, going off on a tangent and done. i think you admitted that like the fact of the matter is she answer the question. if you had a 3rd of the baby, she would have an opportunity to even do more of it. but she doesn't have to do and all she can. okay, let me bring in the project so okay, quick, quick, quick quickly, john, go ahead. yeah, so with all due respect to all of these alternative social media platforms, detroit talked about you don't get as 12 questions by journalists and have to

answer them in front of a national audience. and she didn't answer questions. she's actually restore role versus weight. that is not the same thing as answering the question of, do you support any limitations on abortion throughout the 9 months or privacy? she did not answer that question. the metal where more years ago than you are now in terms of your pocket book, because the users clearly know john, we are absolutely better off that we were 4 years ago at the end, a, in the middle of a pandemic. right? absolutely. better off with that, she's made clear about that and then when is respectful of working, let's be clear. there is no place the full name of you can have an abortion all 9 months in america anywhere. pretty well. probably. oh yeah. okay. of that, you're like, oh, you're not true and i know the heritage got the smart enough to know the oh that you are absolutely wrong, but there are many states that say that the life and health of a mother enables them to have in putting up to live up to birth partial birth

abortion, and camera. how just for the phase, the mother absolutely cares. and, and i believe donald trump, at this point i believe in a big exceptions for the health of the mother as well as rape lines. the other. yeah, absolutely. the building your mom. okay. if i care about it, i could bring it back in a moment ago. joy was talking about the importance of social media and how that is, how that is now the battle ground. but i think it was stating the debate. i looked up the audience for the debate and it was according to nielsen, which is the writing company to decide who's watching live events on television. 67.1000000 americans watched the debate. that's much bigger than the 51000000. who watched joe biden's disasters debate with trump. so the live event is still important, isn't it andrew?

yes, and i think it is certainly it's important to not only in the live audience, but in the downstream effects. right. the debate gets sort of translated into mainstream media headlines and stories. people may not read those stories in full, but they see the headlines. i get to just make it divide. unfortunately, it is important obviously in encouraging the most enthusiastic voters, but not everybody is extremely online. in fact, you know, most americans so hard to imagine from the perspective of political sciences or those are deeply involved in the political process. right. don't pay that much attention to politics. you know, if you looks back into the early part of 2024, some large percentage of americans really didn't believe that joe biden. and donald trump were actually the candidates again. uh and you know, of course in job items case, they turned out to be a rather prescient in that regard. so no, i do think the mainstream media's important is helping to set the agenda. i do

think the tone they take, for example, if uh, you know, if there's sort of a widespread belief that the vice president is ducking questions that will play its way out again, sort of downstream and become part of how she's defined. i think that's something she could avoid and probably are too. um, so i do think the debates are important. they set this agenda, they, uh they are on the broader impression of the candidates moving forward. but again, does she need another debate? no, but i do think she needs to continue to build on this momentum and probably to, you know, develop, maybe not develop but to express this more specific policy agenda in a way that is pretty transparent. and you know, in a way that helps her distinguish yourself from the bottom as pricing. well, the same time to actually try to take credit for. it's like she, vince, this is always a difficult road for sitting vice presidents of why we haven't elected that many sitting vice president's right after their term. because you're trying to,

to walk that brace in line. the very short campaign is probably a help to the vice president disregard john joy earlier on said the trump missed the missed an obvious go on the economy. the other issue was immigration, and that's where harris, which was honest about immigration, decides to swing the, the, the, the, the conversation to his riley's that clearly triggered him. and then you've got something which has had all sorts of names on social media. you've got these comments that you had in our report at the beginning of the program. the 8 thing, the dogs, the 18, the cats. i mean, this wasn't all for loan goal. wasn't the john a look i would not have had said that he's been marked for that. i have no idea whether what he said is true or not true. and to me, that's our only relevant what is completely relevant is the fact that we have a porous border. there been 10000000, at least probably well more than 10000000 illegal immigrants will come in under the

by inherits administration. that does not count the nearly 2000000 or more uh, gotta weighs people who smoke in or on accounted for for your making that point. but president trump didn't like that the clearly and he had plenty of time to do so . yes, i agree with that. i think that he had opportunities to pounds that he did at other points in the debate. he got a little better towards the end. but as i said before, i think you got distracted. and he didn't make these pointed fairly distracted because she very successfully baited him. didn't she, john? let me give you another example. um, you know, she said that the military leaders set the full, the president was a disgrace. will lead as a loft thing to him. and then he quoted vick, adult old bob, the prime minister of hungry. now, number one, he's very controversial because people say he's all for terry and a very close to putin. but number 2, given the audience in swing states and middle america, how many people in the audience, donald trump, was trying to, trying to swing?

how many of the ever heard of it to all about? what you're asking? he did. pamela harris successfully go. donald trump and get it taken down rabbit holes. right. but i think you would have been better off avoiding i think the answer to that is yes. i know the trump campaign doesn't say that, but i agree with that. but there are points that he could make in his favor. he did a little bit better towards the end, but teaching a very effective job of going hand. and i really took the day all to all a joy when president by the enjoy was in the, in the race. a lot of the issues about age is this 9 to all, to be commander in chief. but trump now is the oldest presidential candidate and us history. he now has that role. do you think that should be more attack of his age and whether trump is a shop now in these debates as he was 4 years ago or 8 years ago.

so he's definitely not as sharp. i'm not in a just, i don't love having that conversation, but it's clear that he's not at the top of his game. what come on here with did was more than just go him. she revealed him to be someone who's willing to use race. right. and xena fabia um the, what, what happened in springfield, let's be you have an international audience. we have people from all over the world who live in the united states. so if you are a haitian immigrant, those people are afraid in springfield, illinois, there was a box correct in springfield related to donald trump and gave you dances in the erroneous claim. the city manager of springfield made clear that there had been no reports. so john, do us a favor, please bass directly. what he's saying is a lie. there are not animal missing from the streets of this city, and we're not doing that is not something that is happening with in,

in december. but community, those are very harmful things. and people children are couldn't be, are by the comment that she rebuild the person who would do that. john, quick, large, the deal with that, joe mcdonald connection and i, well, i don't, i don't live in springfield, illinois, i have no idea. however, pamela harris in terms of her record and explain why she has flip flopped on various positions. i've characterized that as a life. and in fact, i would rely on someone who knows are quite well. bernie sanders, who said on, meet the process last week. you know, why are you concerned about her flip flopping all these visitors because now i know she's a progressive, she's just saying what she needs to say in order to get elected. there is a lot of dishonesty going on within the harris campaign. the harris supporter. but let me just say, you know, moving on as well as dick cheney. so everyone from dick cheney the bernie sanders

is for pamela. eric, let's be clear about that and don't forget to okay, but the reason we go to move on because we were running out of time. um, i guess you just give us the, the impact of, of, of a debate like this in the scheme of things because we don't, we've only got 2 months now less than 2 months to election day. there was no big balance in the posing off to the convention, and yet the media said that was almost told us for harris. so will this make a difference? if it doesn't make a difference? what is that out there? are we waiting for an october surprise? what is the route then? it might change things. well, i think a lot of the results, you know, of the 2024 election have been visible to us for a long time. uh, you know, america is, let's face it a polarized place. people's beliefs about the political parties and candidates are big deal. normally, debates don't change banks, right?

it's, it's rare that they do obviously the debate between the former president trump and president biden, you know, made a big impact the bad as a rarity. and this, i think, was an important debate in that it allowed the vice president to present herself as presidential and as has been noted to try to go to president trump successfully into veering off topic of that said, i don't, i think what we've seen over the really last year is a real stability in the former president support. right. and indeed a really remarkable stability in his work going back to almost 2015, whereas president biden support had fallen off quite a lot, even within the democratic party. that's now bounced back with a new candidate. and so we are seeing a battle really over whether this will be a replay of 2020, where the democratic party managed to piece together a coalition. that of course, one naturally and a lot of key swing states or other will be 2016 where, you know,

mr. trump loses the national popular vote, but is able to effectively run the table. uh, you know, brought it inside straight. sorry for the poker reference. in terms of winning those swing states naturally enough to get a victory and electoral college, we know that that's possible. and okay, what's the truck, joe? joel, try going to if i, i could bring you in the trump also. and when things not going his way, he stopped setting people um his campaign team, though, but by most of the other, seemed pretty competent, insane. he's now taking advice, particularly from laura luma. a fall, right? political ap activist who was on his plane sheet tweeted a and recently about the white house smelling like tare. if harris was elected infant tall and clearly racist, all you worried about the way trump campaign is being directed and does it need a real reset now? oh, i don't think it's going to be resetting as soon as you wiles and chris lots of vida

and, you know, it is, they are kelly and conway is they much side because they're him. you know, you know what he does, what he's losing the mike sack them probably hasn't that easy stuff with them so far this campaign and i expect to be there at the end of the campaign. i don't know anything about laura boomer there are always outside hers. some who were quite extreme on the right and on the left who were trying to get to the candidates and sometimes they succeed. but at the moment, his campaign team has been quite steady, and i assume he's going to stick with them for the rest of the campaign. and he has a lot of bread and butter issues to run on the border crime, energy independence, the economy. these are solid issues for him that may take them over the finish line, solid issues that could take you by with the finish line, joy quickly from you. what is your biggest fear is a harris support to you know, well, let me just declare the thing is that it would that you just reference, they are racist. and so we can't normalize that. and i think the donald trump should fire those people. but he seems to be leading in meaning into it. my

greatest fear that here a supporter is donald trump always pulls worse than he actually does in the polls. because so many people are embarrassed to say that they're building for him. now that ought to be a shame that i would be embarrassed about that, but they are embarrassed to say they're ready for him. and so sometimes they don't reflect that vote in the polls. so we're always trying to make sure the parents would be running from behind, right? we have to be way ahead in the polls in order to claim any kind of will you know, head when is success, we're going in the right direction. but that's our fear of fear is that, you know, we won't ever be able to really know where we are and we have to be way out in front of me. so the things big. my joy, thank you very much. thank you. to lowball guess who joined us today, joe malcolm andrew, the lady bitch and joy cheney, you'll find extensive coverage of the campaign all the way to voting data on the

benefits on al jazeera, with analysis to al jazeera dot com. if you have thoughts or comments, always post them at all facebook page. that's facebook dot com forward slash a j inside story or use x while we are at a inside story. i'll see you back here very soon for me james space and the team here, please say safe bye bye for now the, the. ready too often of kind of style and this put, trained through the prism of war. but there were many of the kind of stuff thanks for the braves. individuals who risk their lives to protect it from destruction. an extraordinary film archives funding for decades reviews the forgotten 2 of the countries, modern history. the forbidden real part for the era of darkness on a dizzy to the the

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