mesa sites in 10 units, we have been seen parents chewing up here to ensure their children are getting the shots with detailed coverage. family members of is really captive. save this. and y'all, who was neither capable nor willing to accept a deal from the house or the story. this is the last points where we can be with full off is going to be going inside that if you're jacob to get the food an a 2 people, new york's migration dilemma is a desk. people risking the dangerous channel crossing from from the u. k, which will pressure on government's tough border controls are in place. so how now should countries tackle i'm documented migration. this is inside story the how those that are on james bay's the channel is once again become the site to

a tragedy with more people dying. well, trying to reach you k shows, the latest incident highlights and escalating migrant crisis is posing a challenge to both french and british authorities as the number of crossing surge . critics highlight the lack of cooperation between countries to address the issue . what would it take to manage the influx of and documented migrants is targeting criminal gangs who organize the risky journey's effective enough or on the government's overlooking the post his stomach issues. we'll explore these questions and more with a panel of guess shortly. but 1st, this report from axles on which yet another tragedy in the channel. i think you carrying 59 people ran into trouble off the coast of france. so saturday night, you know, it didn't even a priest, but this told us high and unfortunately i people died. the boat took to the safe from the area of less select near the town of them or us. not. it quickly found that south and difficulty, the boat was clearly toner pond on the rocks. that's all. but the narrow stretch of

water separating southern england and northern france has become a popular route for dose hoping to make a life in britain. this year alone and more than 21000 people made the dangerous journey. many believe the u. k. offers better chassis for asylum seekers. the 3rd just putting pressure on both french and british authorities. but so far, the responses focused on dismantling the criminal gangs. that organized is risky crossings. human rights group say save the legal asylum roots are needed. one of the k ones would be the u. k has a board actually in france, and it should be allowing people to seek asylum at that border in france to allow them to safely travel to the u. k. secondly, it would look like expanding family reunification. many of the individuals who are getting on these flimsy boards actually have family or ties in the u. k. it can also look like work and study visas for people around the world. the u. k is

approach has changed in recent months. the previous government had proposed the controversial plan to the port on documented migrants in refugees to rewind it was cracked by the new administer ration, led by prime minister, kia star downing street, has hinted another policies under discussion one that could the mirror. the approach taken by italy following controversial deals with the nation, libya, italy has recorded the 62 percent dropping on documented migrants this year, a prime minister, georgia maloney has also signed a 5 year multi 1000000 dollar agreement with the pena to process up to 36000 asylum seekers annually from countries, italy deemed safe. the migration crisis is a new dates back to 2015, when more than a 1000000 of refugees in migrants entered to europe. it exposed the deep divisions

within the u. some countries welcome to asylum seekers, while others close their borders and tested the blocks solidarity as we through approaches in another hemisphere and see conditions worse than concerns are growing without significant policy changes. tragedies like this one will only become more frequent. the axis i'm of which was the 0 for inside story the while. now, joining discussion today on the inside story we have from funding. i'm none of those to go on a professor of international migration and force displacement at the university of dunning, i'm in london. rubbish on. raw ho, messiah out communications director of the charity joint council for the welfare of immigrants. and in bristol, yeah. show my kind of co, the co president of neutral to europe, europe,

africa network that focuses on the consequences of migration policies. so thank you all 3 of you for joining us today on inside story. yes. again, a tragic incident in that the world's busy is more to way that the u. k. co singlish channel. the french cool lot most it's and it showed his point just 32 kilometers across rubbish on the fact. but now we've seen more people died this time 8 die. another incident, just a couple of weeks ago, the was this year, 12 died, 6 of them children and a pregnant women. this is tragic that this keeps going on like this. yes, sir, domestic tragedy. and these stayed on the reputation of the u. k. that this is allowed to happen. you know, previous the previous government massively failed in looking off to people who are trying to caustic channel. and this current government again, with their policies are committed, tries ation. gonna make the same mistakes. we know that moving trying board is done

and secure people that provide safety to people. it only makes that journeys. honda, as he said, the channel was one of the busiest crossing lanes in the world. we expecting all with forcing people to close that channel in small things without pride of providing and safe for it is a massive prodigy. but most importantly, it's an avoidable tragedy. that the tragedy lives at the foot of the government and their policies, which failed to protect people to seeking safety in our country. yeah, sure, we'll get to the root causes the problem, how we can solve them later in the program. but do you think there's anything more that could be done just in terms of, of results is in the english channel on both sides taught, trying to rescue these people and the text these people. i don't think it's an issue of the amounts of resources that are being invested. it's more an issue of what the perspectives of problems being seen us because we thought the

attempts to create some viable ways in which people can reach the u. k. the crossings are going to continue, and that's the main issue because trying to focus attention on the smuggling guns type. so way attention from the fact that the smoking guides only exist because the, this prohibition isn't in the migration policy feels. i mean, i think, you know, there was a proposal from the few weeks ago from the french government to have this item adjudication in france, which the u. k. is currency, the refusing to concentrate. and, but the idea in general, as well as in the channel, is a new look at the way in which migration is managed. migration management, split print that is being set top. so lots of money is being spent from texas being

involved, but it's still continues to have the same the same kind of uh, outlook which is about from sending the possibilities for the states to kind of control migration the just to be good 12 years like from from texas, the use of border control agency, if i can tend to, you know, before we expand it to, to that situation across europe, just staying with the u. k. in terms of these crossings, is the situation getting worse in terms of the numbers of people that are coming and taking this very treacherous journey across the channel? i think the z a, the see use the last step that we are still on a similar trend. then uh, last year, in uh to your single we had to be quite over 40 uh, 45000 people crossing it one year alone. so 2022. but that was a specific circumstance as back to the that was due with the arrival the mass of

people from i've been here and oh really with the issues and not government. basically they start to develop that partnership with those being. and then that drastically reduce that specific as migration flu in terms of the what does change though in the last 40 years since we start to read it to, to see this phenomenon of the regular crossing in the, in the channel is in the way the infrastructure of the, of this crossing. just to give you an example in 2021. we have about 28000 arrival of the people that with the tech to the after the crossing a into due case in about 1030 both to these means that each both at about 25.6 people. what do we see now in the last couple of years that each volt that arrives as on average, about $5052.00 people? well, what this tell us is that we're going towards a more organized, a movement form of movement where basically they are the, the volt, uh,

a be good old, a multiple outputs don't it. but basically also means that there is a much larger uh economy around it. because obvious in each boat to bring small money to those wall facilitating the crossing. okay? rubbish out. and if i can come to you, these people are in front, which is a prosperous country. why do they want to go to the u. k, rather than stay in fronts number one. and what are the main countries where people are coming from in terms of those to the making this, this crossing a while ago we found with our clients that, you know, lot of the people that come to this country. they come here because they have a shed language, which is english even they have family here and they want to really not for them. and we know that, you know, many people that come to this country have a history when the u. k. whether that's because there's a colonial ties of the empire or the language that was spread around the world.

well, so you know, we, we are an economy that shouldn't be able to take on these people. that's one thing we have to remember. so you know, when, when our clients come here, we have to be welcoming them and we found some, many of our clients are coming from countries ask, and it's done when we did a migrant crossings by the chance. so we know that people from us kind of started the represent it also what they are they that rubbish out. how they are they the top one that's got us down at the moment from the figures you have kind of turn on . but one thing that's really important that we should really talk about today is that it's only been by the home of the statistics. one ukrainian national, that has ever been detected across from the channel since the rule in ukraine and russia. so that's a really interesting stuff because well that shows is the ukraine reset, touch screen of the parent and on the screen that the government set top was really successful in meaning that new training it didn't have to cross. the child didn't have to change the treacherous routes across kind of stories. syrians,

other nationals of countries across the world should be a 40 that same right? that same humanitarian right that we gave to you premium. ok, the rubbish sounds good. let me just stay with you and on, on the, on the guns you say the probably the number one. i mean, that is very interesting, isn't it? given the u. k. 's involvement in afghanistan for so many years, having his military, the enough kind of stone and the time about wouldn't be taking power again. if the u. k. along with all the nato countries haven't pulled out of afghanistan in the u . k as positive bolt. lindsey nicole is here, does it not definitely we have a massive involvement in the tools. ready can place it in the movement of these people in the force moving to these people. and we have a mo gigi to these people. are many people across the world to welcome them and to if we believe we are a leader of human rights and a leader in japan, as having quoted as we should be starting on welcoming those people whose lives,

frankly, we have to want to pop by the legal invasions across the well, one of our clients who came from, i got this done, got to take a treacherous journey. you have to go through iran to keep greece. and then virus move us both across the channel to variety. he was brought to the refugee status by the way of combining team. so imagine some of the allowed to remain in this country because of the ones that we've created. and we need to really, instead of thinking about stopping to buy this and stuck in the games, we need to be thinking about how we fulfill all g t in the world. okay, 9 the i'd like you to pick up on, on the ukraine, the pulse of this that you had rubbish on. mention that because it seems the ukrainians are being dealt with completely differently from every other country. and that's, that's, that's true. and this is actually a very important point for us to, to bear in mind. so the idea is that if i go to the crossing only to because they don't know often i think for some nationality. so just to, if we look at,

for example, the country we got, i forgot his son, we got to be a non because iran, syria, and then we go to the holding of off, it goes down every 3. i'm on the biggest content the last few years, the defined data. so it's, that's what's interesting. and then that is that you mentioned 1st of the front side is the recently, it was mentioning the interface before the front of the reasons. the also the possibility for both of them assessment to be done in that category for people then to travel to do okay, but that's, that has been, uh do you can go, i'm just not happy with that. these are these purple so recently the, the okay. yeah, the lead, but allies access to these are for some countries, particularly in the south of asia and with this nice ational summit. but for example, we are seeing that the number of indian national people from a city land got in the bundle dash, the beating the largest number, not, not huge number of a larger number than the past. and just items that the 6, the point is that this national not among those of why you find on the crossing. so in many ways these are the people that have actually say fruits to do k,

and then they can apply for us. i saw them to present the best case that has to be assessed by what the government is is trying to do is actually and to the to, to start to disclose. so rather than while they're saying that they want to appear to see from the groups to, for people to claim asylum. and then basically would be like a nice has that introduced if, if they, they can demonstrate it. when you try to do is actually during pose the visa on those national have you got the control that then apply for for visa, florida? solomon. so the kind of lies them to yeah, sure. i think it's what it says briefly looking at what the u. k. government was doing until a few months ago because a bar is johnson introduced the scheme in 2022 and it was taken out by wishy soon act when he became prime minister. the plan apparently was to send plenty of these people to lawanda to effectively to pull them through under that scheme. as i understand it, cost $918.00. ready $1000000.00. so just give

us your assessment of the success of that project. yeah, i mean, it was, i'm a major go to this officer and stuck. couldn't spend the deducted from the stock because there were a series of, of legal requirements which were on like so you to be mad at india and the government's active trying to me didn't buy a single that regardless of uh, any considerations or what the situation was on the ground rewind had to be considered safe by decree, which wasn't the case, but nonetheless, the houses apartments, apartments that so uh, it puts, uh, a problematic, as experiments from the points of view of costs. as the u. k. costs eventually kind of said that's this is not a case of burden sharing, but of garden shifting from red. sure. so that's well the countries as that on

top of that the legal requirements for not being met. so that was an mitigated disaster. and it was predictable. okay, well, the, that, that what that plan was tool not by the new prime minister care stomach on that one . that was one of his day one announcements. and he was ending, that's a policy rubbish i'm. let's look at what he's going to do. instead, he said he's going to set up a new border security. come on, bring in the board or force officials, the police, and the intelligence agencies. i mean, my question is what those people already working close together and is what you've got now previously, the slogan was stopped the boats. now the slogan is, smash the gangs. is there any substance or is it just a new slogan? yeah, i mean, to me, it looks like uh multiple places corporate again, most logan's, you know, we know what the real estate. ready auction to this. so the problem is we think solve tasha. they already it's providing safe products, free online visas,

games that we did for the trainings in, in the russian, off the russian invasion. we know that moment and tries ation of more 4 to 6. ready t, one loan to lead to more tests and the channel, you know, the kids dollars taking may be, you know, strong on the language. it may be a type of online politics that he wants to, you know, show to some people in this country and prove that he's going to be tough of migration. but the fact is, is not going to solve. the problem is not going to the costa. so can ensure that people seeking safety are able to come to this country in a safe way is going to need to more. this is going to ensure that people continues to take countries. chinese, we have to remember the container and policies also called the tax policies of the last government, which are that are aligned to scheme. the still kind putting people on a barge and so on will seem to fail. they are massive stages and it looks like he's found ways continuing on that real estate. yeah. and the real human cost,

what would be felt by stone or his eyes, and we felt by those people that are taking these treacherous roots. so we have to have some common sense in this politics and put humanity at the center, and that humanity needs to mean that we offer people safe groups immediately. okay . i know if i can ask you about the political context of this. you might think the key a stomach could do what do you want? so you had a land slide when on july, the 4th, but also in august we had riots shots the u. k. um, can he politically, you think, just do what is the best policy here, or is he go to take account of a public opinion? and this is a very emotive issue. it's a, it's a very multiple shows, especially if, because that's been very much pushed, especially before the election bias specific sets of political and dropping. they're all thought right forces, but they're really wanted to gain the electrical gain now towards i. we've seen it in the past. so really with the breakfast that i find the mile much the migration

shoes that can be politicized for other purposes. the one the plan was never meant to work, and this is actually why it just the, just the month before the election, even the primary set aside to lower the if we, i, we make a and then we open uh open up that they'll see it. otherwise doesn't matter. so in many ways we, we, it was clear, there was no somebody that was meant to work in valuable sunday. that was that also to see know something else which was a dirty positioning of the old pretending to do, you know, the relationship with the former colonies with a call mobile tech cetera. the, the, the outlet to the only success that the success, any of us to call my back in terms of reducing the irregular crossing that uh, so not head one was obviously for the introduction of the schemes like the one for i'm going to are sold one for the convenience because there was no need for them to cross in the sea. and yet it was for the ext, adding strong relationship with france. i was trying to rebuild the relationship with ross of which has been completely and a body decides by the biggest uh,

governmental bodies, jones that 1st that so what somebody is doing is trying to reconnect with europe and using because of the migration issues as a to to 40 connect thing, so it's actually the opposite. the breakfast deals i've done in the last few years . the point is that, you know, the is, you know, this game playing, those old software actually though, so we need to the production of the, the, the, the weakest and the forest and one that cross and risk of that life to. yes. so we heard that he's planning to reconnect with europe on this issue. even if there's no way he says that the u. k. will. busy going to rejoin the european union and part of that is stomach going on a trip to italy and his italian counterpart, georgia. maloney, perhaps politically very, very different from him. she has roots apart. he has roots in no fascism yet. she, according to the eu, has the solution to the problem is 64 percent drop in those mating crossings from

north africa to italy. so far this year, do you think the italian solution is the way forward? you know, the silence solution is the, is not the way out of the problem. and this was shown particularly this weekend when the former inter administer saw the was the, the, the project using magistrates asked for 6 and a half years. imprisonment for the administer the cause of some decisive tactics which were employed into 5 of 19 not the whole, the tyrants and the m. externalization. all migration policy efforts to north africa in particular has empowered the libyan coast guard to carry out to takeover. in fact, search and rescue duties from european naval assets and that has been project,

but from the point of view that cent fee. but also from the point of view r e u e u member states kinds of violating the rule of law as in the framework of international law in quite a massive way. because libya has been assigned a source of which is a search and rescue the under the united nations international maritime organization system for safety, blanket, etc. and basically, it's upside because search and rescue the areas that presume that there is a safe form in which people can be doesn't box after rescues. i mean libya due to the conditions in the direction sensors that doesn't exist. at the same time in libya, there is no government which is in control of the whole country, so they don't even have a maritime rescue for the nation sensor. okay,

read the rubbish of rubbish. and if i could bring it to you, libya but also to news. yeah. the you is paid a lot of money to a to easier recently to boost at security. italy is also done the same. and yet to news. here is a country where the president is accused of authoritarian behavior and human rights abuses. yeah, i think, you know, we need to really be careful, especially from a u. k. perspective. we need to be careful with how close case tom wants to follow a lot of these pos, you know, offshoring of human rights responsibilities, and no more responsibility to the international responsibilities, to provide sentry to people who are moving or not forced to leave the rooms off. shore and that responsibility puts you in great danger because who are you are showing that responsibility to we've already been been down that road with the wind, the scheme. we've already seen how dangerous that can be to be sending both to the

supposedly sending people, many of our clients, again, bring it back to the humans in this story. many of our kinds, well, horrified by the so we're going to the wind, a country that had no knowledge of a country they had never intended to going to they had, they were terrified. they didn't know what they were going to find when they go through a lender and we have a responsibility case stall, as the prime minister of the united kingdom has a responsibility. shacking responsibility like me. and he has done by moving it for me to check in to genuity. i left the us doing the same with the proposed to do without being yeah. would be a massive mistake. and we, we have to avoid who costs a non though. i mean, we have people, many of these people who are fleeing a pulling things and their own countries on the situation. one things is only going to get worse. and i'm thinking particularly about the war and sit on of the word sort out in the week. we got the tension of rising between $83.00 uh, uh, and uh, and so done and uh in the, in the region. so if you look at the candidates,

the people are coming from very much from a to is which are stable as stable and at risk of conflict or whether the significant human rights violation of all people travel. all people please depends on what to opportunities are available for them. obviously they would go for the safest, available for the one they can afford. but there are some nationality in the world for them, for which there are no way. oh no safe way to find the protection in in this country. i think the same population of us donald, but a follow up for maloney is also a part of the political risk is almost about adults. i mean, we all the plan that is put in place and the relationship with the countries in north africa and being challenged in the in cost annually. and that would be the soonest acquisition of the human rights violation that i see almost 5 bucks to go. that someone will come from the ground as the human rights lawyer to basically end up building a closer relationship with the government, the like the detailing one. and the other thing i find also warning is that while

the government is dropped at the one, the plan of resent that we have that the gentleman, the government is going see the thing that i have. and the one the 1st day of it is from new case for actually doing golf, shorting update or something, because that, that's also streaming the warning. i thank you very much. indeed. thank you to all 3 of our guests today. 9, but 9, those to go to rubbish. i'm ra, hold up messiah and yes, you and we kind of co, if you missed any part of our program, you can always go back and watch it again. any time if you want it out, is there a dot com, you have comments, contributions, even complaints, post them on facebook page, that's facebook dot com, forward slash a j inside story. alternatively, you can press on ex, well, at a inside story from the james page and the production team here, please stay safe bye for now. the

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