of a series of media lows introduce dr. rushes, invasion of ukraine of stifled independent journalism. witness chronicles the near impossible personal and political choices of a nobel peace prize winner and his colleagues in the media organizations final days before forwarding silence of kind of refund of the dogs on out to 0. your ex migration dilemma, the desk, people risking the dangerous channel crossing from from the u. k. puts a little pressure on government's tough. border controls are in place. so how now should countries tackle i'm documented migration. this is inside stored, the loads that are on james bay's. the channel is once again become the site to

a tragedy with more people dying. well trying to reach you k shows. the latest incident highlights and escalating migrant crisis is posing a challenge to both french and british authorities as the number of crossing search critics highlight the lack of cooperation between countries to address the issue. what would it take to manage the influx of and documented migrants is targeting criminal gangs who organize the risky journeys effective enough, or all governments overlooking the persist stomach issues. we'll explore these questions and more with our panel of gas shortly. but 1st, this report from axles on which yet another tragedy in the channel. i think you caring 59 people, ran into trouble off the coast of france. so saturday night, the only thing, even though we split this, told us high. unfortunately, i people died the boat to the, to the safe from the area of less select new. the town of them are us not quickly found that south and difficulty, the boat was clearly one of the comments on the rock is that symbols the narrow

stretch of water separating southern england and northern france has become a popular route for dose hoping to make a life in britain, this year alone and more than 21000 people made that dangerous journey. many believe the u. k. offers better chess as far as solemn seekers. the surge is putting pressure on both french and british authorities. but so far, the response has focused on dismantling the criminal gangs that organize these risky crossings. human rights groups say safe legal asylum routes are needed. one of the k ones would be the u. k has a border actually in france and it should be allowing people to seek asylum at that border in france to allow them to safely travel to the u. k. secondly, it would look like expanding family reunification. many of the individuals who are getting on these flimsy boards actually have family ties in the u. k. a closer look like work and study visas for people around the world. the u. k is approach has

changed in recent months. the previous government had proposed the controversial plan to deport and documented migrants and refugees through rewind. it was cracked by them, you would ministration lead by prime minister care star downing street has painted another policies under discussion one that could the mirror. the approach taken by italy, the following controversial deals with denise and libya, italy has recorded the 62 percent dropping on documented migrants this year. prime minister, georgia maloney has also signed a 5 year multi $1000000.00 agreement with the pena to process up to $36000.00 asylum seekers annually from countries. italy deemed safe. the migration crisis is a new dates back to 2015, when more than a 1000000 of refugees in migrants entered to europe. it exposed the deep divisions

within the u. some countries welcome to asylum seekers, while others close their borders and tested the blocks solidarity. as we through approaches in another hemisphere and see conditions worse than concerns are growing without significant policy changes. tragedies like this one will only become more frequent access. i'm gonna reach out to 0 for insights story while now joining discussion today on inside story we have from funding, i'm none of those to go into professor of international migration and force displacement at the university of dunning, i'm in london. rubbish on. raw ho, messiah out. communications director of the charity joint council for the welfare of immigrants and, and bristol, yeah, show mechanic coke, the co president of nicholas europe. europe,

africa network focuses on the consequences of migration policies. so thank you all 3 of you for joining us today on inside story. yeah. so again, a tragic incident in that the world's busy is more to way that the u. k. co singlish channel. the french cool lot most it's and it showed his point just 32 kilometers across rubbish on the fact. but now we've seen more people died this time 8 die. another incident, just a couple of weeks ago, the, was this year, 12 died, 6 of the children and a pregnant women. this is tragic that this keeps going on like this. yeah, it's a domestic tragedy and is staying on the reputation of the u. k. that this is allowed to happen. you know, previous the previous government massively failed in looking off to people who are trying to caustic channel. and this current government again, with their policies are committed, tries ation. gonna make the same mistakes. we know that many trying borders doesn't

secure people that provide safety to people. it only makes it journeys. honda, as he said, the channel was one of the busiest crossing lanes in the world. we expecting all with forcing people to close that channel in small things without pride providing and safe for it is a massive prodigy. but most importantly, it's unavoidable tragedy that the tragedy lives at the foot of the government and their policies, which failed to protect people to seeking safety in our country. yeah, sure, we'll get to the root causes the problem and how we can solve them later in the program. but do you think there's anything more that could be done just in terms of, of results is in the english channel on both sides taught, trying to rescue these people and the text these people. and i don't think it's an issue of the amounts of resources that are being invested. it's more an issue of what the perspectives of problems being seen us. because we thought the

attempts to create some viable ways in which people couldn't reach the u. k. the crossings are going to continue, and that's the main issue because trying to focus attention on the smuggling guns type. so way attention from the fact that the smuggling guides only exist because the, this prohibition isn't in the migration policy feels. i'm particular, there was a proposal from a few weeks ago from the french governments to have designed them adjudication in france, which the u. k is carter and see the reducing to concentrate. and, but the idea in general, as well as in the channel, is a new look at the way in which migration is minus the migration management's blueprint that is being set top. so lots of money is being spent from

texas being involved, but it's still continues to have the same the same kind of uh, outlook which is about from sending the possibilities for the states to kind of control migration. yeah. but just to be clear, 12 years from, from texas, the use of border control agency, if i can turn to, you know, before we expand it to, to that situation across europe. just staying with the u. k. in terms of these crossings, is the situation getting worse in terms of the numbers of people that are coming and taking this very treacherous journey across the channel? i think the z a, the see use the last step. so we are still on a similar trend then uh, last year in the, to your civil. we had to be cleaned over 4045000 people crossing and when he had a loan. so in 2022, but that was a specific circumstances back to the that was due with the arrival the mass of

people from i've been here and really with the issues and not government. basically they start to develop that partnership with the that that drastically reduce that specific and migration flow in terms of the what has changed during the last 40 years. since we start to really to, to see this phenomenon of the regular crossing in the, in the channel is in the way the infrastructure of the, of this crossing. just to give you an example, in 2021, we have about 28000 arrival of the people that were detected the after the crossing into a new case in about 1030 both. so this means that each both at about $25.00 people . what do we see now in the last couple of years that each volt that arrives as on a bridge about $5052.00 people? well, what this tell us is that we're going towards a more organized, a movement form of movement where basically they are the volt, uh, a be good old,

a multiple outputs don't it. but basically also means that there isn't much lodge in the uh, economy around it. because obviously it should both brings more money to those. well, facilitating the caustic okay, i'm rubbish. and if i can come to you, these people are in front, which is a prosperous country. why do they want to go to the u. k rather than stay in front number one and what are the main countries where people are coming from in terms of those to the making this, this crossing as well. so we found with our clients that, um, you know, lot of the people that come to this country, they come here because they have a shed language which is english. even they have family here and they want to really not for them. and we know that, you know, many people that come to this country have a history when the u. k. whether that's because there's a colonial ties of the empire or the language that was spread around the world.

well, so you know, we, we are an economy that shouldn't be able to take on these people. that's one thing we have to remember. so you know, when our clients come here, we have to be welcoming them and we found some, many of our clients are coming from countries ask and it's done when we did, the cap might bring crossings by the chance. so we know that people from us kind of started the, represent it over. so what they as a bit rubbish on how they are they the top one that's got us down at the moment from the figures you have kind of turned off. but one thing that's really important that we should really talk about today is that it's only been by the home of the statistics. one ukrainian national that has ever been detected crossing the channel seems to rule in ukraine and russia. so that's a really interesting stuff because what that shows is the ukraine reset touch screen of the parent and on the screen that the government set top was really successful in meaning that new training it didn't have to cross. the child didn't have to change treacherous routes. and often installing these syrians,

other nationals of countries across the world should be a 40 that same right. that same humanitarian right that we gave to you praying and ok, the rubbish sounds good. let me just stay with you. and on, on the guns you say the probably the number one, i mean that is very interesting, isn't it? given the u. k. 's involvement, enough kind of stop for so many years having is military the enough kind of stone and the top or bottom wouldn't be taking power again. if the u. k. along with all the nato countries haven't pulled out about the kind of stuff the u. k. as positive bolt lindsey nicole is here, does it not? definitely we have a massive involved in the tools. ready can place it in the movement of these people in the 4th movement of these people. and we have a mo gigi to these people. are many people across the world to welcome them and to if we believe we are a leader of human rights and a leader in japan, as having quoted as we should be starting on welcoming those people whose lives,

frankly, we have to want to pop by the legal invasions across the well, one of our clients who came from up, got this done, got to take a treacherous journey. you have to go through iran to keep greece. and then virus move us both across the channel to variety. he was brought to refugee status by the way of combining team, so he legitimately allowed to remain in this country because of the. ready we've created and we need to really, instead of thinking about stopping to buy this and stuck in the games, we need to be thinking about how we fulfill all g t in the world. okay. none of the i'd like you to pick up on, on the ukraine, the pulse of this that you had rubbish on. mention that because it seems that ukrainians are being dealt with completely differently from every other country. and that's, that's, that's true. and this is actually a very important point for us to, to bear in mind. so the idea is that if i go to the crossing only to because they don't know often i think for some nationality. so just to, if we look at,

for example, the country, we've got a guy, his son, and we got the a non because iran, syria, and then we got to do holding of off it goes down every 3. i'm on the biggest content the last few years. the the find it though it's, that's what's interesting and then that is that you mentioned for us at the front side. so recently it was mentioning the interface before the front of the reasons the also the possibility for us have them assessment to be done in that category for people then to travel to okay, but that, that has been, uh, you can go and he's not happy with that dis, purple, so recently the, the okay, yeah. as a lead. but allies access to be so full song countries, particularly in the south of asia and with this nice ational summit. but for example, we are seeing that the number of indian national people from a city land got in the bundle dash that appeared in the lodge of number not, not huge, the larger number than the past, and just have them start the 6. the point is that this national and i'm not among those of why you find on the crossing. so in many ways these are the people that have actually say fruits to do k and then they can apply for us. i saw them are

presenting this case. it has to be assessed by the government is trying to do is actually and to the, to, to stop, to disclose. so rather than while they're saying that they want to appear to see from the group to, for people to claim asylum and then basically be recognized as that introduced. if they, they can demonstrate it. when you try to do is actually a touring pulls the visa on those national. have you got the control that then apply for for visa, florida? solomon. so that depend on lice them to yeah, sure. i think it's what it says briefly looking at what the u. k government was doing until a few months ago because a bar is johnson introduced the scheme in 2022. and it was taken out by richie soon that when he became prime minister, the plan apparently was to send plenty of these people to rewind uh to effectively to pull them through one to that scheme. as i understand that cost $918.00. ready $1000000.00. um just give us your

assessment of the success of that project. yeah, i mean it was the major gated this officer and stuck cuz it's been up to date it from the stock because there were a series of legal requirements which were on like so you to be met at india and the governments to try to meet bitten by a single that regardless of uh, any considerations or what the situation was on the ground rewind had to be considered safe by decree, which wasn't the case. but nonetheless, the houses apartments, apartments that so uh, it was uh, a problematic as experiments from the points of view of costs. as the u. k. costs eventually kind of said, that's this is not a case of burden sharing, but of garden shifting from red shirts for the next. well,

the countries as that on top of that the legal requirements for not being met. so that was an mitigated disaster. and it was predictable. okay, well, the, that, that what that plan was tool not by the new prime minister care stomach on that one . that was one of his day one announcements. and he was ending, that's a policy rubbish on. let's look at what he's going to do instead, he said he's going to set up a new border security. come on, bring in the board or force officials, the police, and the intelligence agencies. i mean, my question is what those people already working close together and is what you've got now previously, the slogan was stopped the boats. now the slogan is, smash the gangs. is there any substance or is it just a new slogan? yeah, i mean to me, looks like as multiple points, corporate again, most logan's, you know, we know what the real estate. ready auction to the so the problem is we think solve tasha. they already it's providing safe roads for you. all of these games that we

did for the trainings in, in the russian, off the russian invasion. we know the moment and tries ation more to secure. ready t, we're not going to lead to more tests and the channel, you know, the route that she has thought was taking may be, you know, strong on the language. it may be a type of online politics that he wants to, you know, show to some people in this country and prove that he's going to be tough for migration. but the fact is, is not going to solve. the problem is not going to the costa. so can ensure that people seeking safety are able to come to this country in a safe way is going to need to more. this is going to ensure that people continues to take such as chinese. we have to remember the deterrence policy is also called the tires policies of the last government, which are that are aligned to scheme. these talk i'm going to put on a barge and so on will seem to fail. they are massive stages and it looks like he has found ways continuing on that real estate. yeah. and the real human cost,

what would be thought by stone or his eyes, and we felt by those people that are taking these treacherous roots. so we have to have some common sense in this politics and put humanity at the center, and that humanity needs to mean that we offer people safe groups immediately. okay . i know if i can ask you about the political context of this. you might think the key a stomach could do what do you want? so you had a land slide when on july, the 4th, but also in august we had riots shots the u. k. come he politically, you think? just do what is the best policy here, or is it go to take account of a public opinion and this is a very emotive issue. it's a, it's a very well did. it shows a special needs because that's been very much pushed, especially before the election bias specific sets of political and dropping. they're all thought rightful says that that really wanted to gain the electrical, getting out towards i would've seen it in the past. so really with the brakes at

the front end, the mile much the migration shoes that can be politicized for other purposes. the one the plan was never meant to work. and this is actually why it just the, just a month before the election, even the primary set aside to what we do if we, i, we make a and then we open open up that they'll see it otherwise doesn't matter. so in many ways we, we, it was clear, there was no somebody that was meant to work in valuable sunday. that was that also to see know something else which was the, the positioning of the old pretending towards the end of the relationship with the foreman calling east, where the commonwealth etc. the, the, the outlet to the only success that the success ending, the call my back in terms of reducing the irregular crossing that so not head one was obviously for the introduction of schemes like the one for i'm going to are sold one for the convenience because there was no need for them to cross in the sea, and yet it was for the best adding strong relationship with front. so i was trying to rebuild the relationship with ross of which has been completely. and i thought

he decides, by the biggest, uh, governmental bodies, jones that 1st, that so what's the estimate is doing is trying to reconnect with europe and using cause the migration issues as a to, to 40 connect thing. so it's actually the opposite. the black 50 is i've done in the last few years. the point is that, you know, the is, you know, this game playing those old software, actually those only to the protection of the, the, the, the weakest and the forest and one that across and risk life to. yes. so we heard that he's planning to reconnect with europe on this issue. even if there's no way he says that the u. k. will. busy going to rejoin the european union and part of that is style my going on a trip to italy and his italian counterpart, georgia. maloney, perhaps politically very, very different from him. she has roots apart. he has roots in neo fascism. yet she, according to the eu, has the solution to the problem is 64 percent drop in those mating crossings from

north africa to italy. so far this year, do you think the autonomy and solution is the way forward? you know, the silence pollution is the, is not the way out of the problem. and this was shown particularly this weekend when the former inter administer saw the was the, the, the project using magistrates asked for 6 and a half years in prison, minutes for the administered, because of some decisive tactics which were employed in 2019, not the whole the tyrants and the m externalization. all migration policy efforts to north africa in particular pass empowered the libyan coast guard to carry out to takeover in fact, search and rescue duties from european uh, naval assets. and that has been project. but from the point of view that since see,

but also from the point of view r e u e u member states, kind of violating the rule of law as in the framework of international law in quite a massive way. because libya has been assigned a saw, which is a search and rescue that under the united nations international maritime organization system for safety, blanket, etc. and basically, it's upside because search and rescue the areas that presume that there is a safe form in which people can be doesn't box after rescues. i mean libya due to the conditions and adoption centers that doesn't exist at the same time in libya, there is not one government which is in control of the whole country. so they don't even have a maritime rescue for the nation sensor. okay,

read the rubbish. rubbish. oh and if i could bring it to you, libya but also to news. yeah. the you is paid a lot of money to uh, to easier recently to boost that security. it totally is also done the same. and yet to news, here is a country where the president is accused of authoritarian behavior and human rights abuses. yeah, i think, you know, we need to really be careful, especially from a u. k. perspective. we need to be careful with how close case tom wants to follow a minute of these pos, you know, offshoring of human rights responsibilities. and i'll borrow responsibilities about international responsibilities to provide send, treat to people who are moving or not forced to leave the homes off shore. and that responsibility puts you in great danger because who are you are showing that responsibility to we've already been been down that road when there are wind the scheme. we've already seen how dangerous that can be to be sending both to the

supposedly sending people, many of our clients, again, bring it back to the humans in this story. many of our kinds horrified by the so we're going to the wind, a country that had no knowledge of a country they had never intended to going to they had, they were terrified. they didn't know what they were going to find when they go through a lender. and we have a responsibility. keystone, as the prime minister of the united kingdom has a responsibility shocking that responsibility loc milanni has done by moving it from the shacking. a contingency i left the us doing the same with a proposal deal without pena would be a massive mistake. and we, we have to avoid who costs a non though. i mean, we have people, many of these people who are fleeing a pulling things in their own countries on the situation. one things is only going to get worse and i'm thinking particularly about the war. and so don the word, so rotten. we've got the tension of rising between $83.00 uh uh, and uh, and so done and uh in the, in the region. so if you look at the candidates though,

if people are coming from very much from a to is which are stable as stable and at risk of conflict or whether the significant human rights violation of people travel . all people's please depends on what the opportunities are available for them. obviously they would go for the safest through the available for the one they can afford. but there are some national looking towards for them for which there are no way. oh no safe way to find the protection in in this country. i think the same population of us, donald, but the phone for middle own a is also a part of the political risk is almost about adults going me. we all the plan that is put in place and the relationship with the congress in north africa and being challenged in the, in coal to easily. and that would be the soonest acquisition of human rights by what they should that yeah, i see almost 5 bucks to go. that someone will come from the ground as a human rights lawyer to basically end up building a closer relationship with the government. the like the detailing one and the other

thing i find also warning is that vile, the government is dropped at the one the plan. and the reason we have that, the gentleman, the government is considering that i have a good that the one, the 1st name it is from new case for actually doing golf, shorting all data settings, because that that's also streaming the warning to thank you very much. indeed. thank you to all 3 of our guests today. 9, but 9. those to go now. rubbish. i'm right, help messiah on. yeah, show me kind of code. if you missed any part of our program, you can always go back and watch it again. any time if you want it out, is there a dot com? if you have comments, contributions, even complaints, post them on facebook page, that's facebook dot com forward slash a j inside story. alternative, you can find it on x web at a j inside story from the james space and the production team here. please stay safe bye for now. the

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see that they're all based on that. he started shooting and ran towards the target and was.