striking in the heart of the american capital, the beneficiary dart is a kind of conflict. with his plan for universal artwork, succeed, we're getting the colors on out his era. the mass attack type of thing has fallen members and let him know devices useful communication exploded in german thousands as kevin several, as well as leaving israel to is the risk of the biggest conflict. this is in 5 story. the hello and welcome to the program. i'm elizabeth put on them as well and the 11 on based group has will not have been engaged in cross border conflicts and as well as

long gaza began nearly a year ago, concerns of a lot of conflict. and now growing and oft series of quota native attacks targeted has bowling members and 11 on tuesday, they came a day off. it is where the pa minister benjamin netanyahu said he'd make it a goal of his one, gaza, to return to thousands of his ratings displays by the violence and know of in israel. his father has blamed israel for the page of explosions that ended more than 2500 people and as promising retaliation as well as yet to comment. but it's on a is deploying additional forces to it's an open photo with lab and on. so what will it has all those response looked like i is there were risk of a wider conflict. we'll put that to, i guess shortly. first, this report from the image and kinda the size of explosions, the coast 11 on and, and syria from a cyber attack, the turned pages held by hezbollah members into weapons. but the thousands of

injuries hundreds are in the critical state. somebody using fingers suffering serious abdominal injuries, being blind the range and i'm positive 11 on the among them. well they report say his injuries a slight lebanon's hospitals, opinions of loans. and the death toll is still rising. many of these hit what has been the fight is, well, there's some carrying the pages killed other roles within the greek metix. and one was a young go another, how much must be i'm on the phone of has been a member of parliament, ali m o. r g y s i a, this is a new is really aggression, again slip and the resistance will retaliate in a suitable way and a suitable time has been an official as opposed to the coup. this the biggest security breach the group of space in the past year conflict with israel. it's not

yet clear how it was car. he died with speculation on whether explosives had been inserted into the pages before they were distributed. has been the members recently started using pages because it was believed they were less likely to be tracked than small fines to sell the so has put a squarely blames israel's been the we blame the is right, the enemy, they full responsibility for this criminal attack that also, homes civilians, the treacherous and criminal enemy will get the fear of punishment for this cowardly attack. but israel has so far remain silent. right, and it's powerful all over us. didn't like having any prior knowledge of tuesday's attack. alger is no us involvement in this at all a sentiment the us has maintained since has the israel again, the curse for the conflict in response to the world garza but that hasn't stopped tensions rising and the conflict expanding with both sides. hitting deeper across

the israel, lebanese border, and israel occurring at a high level assassination of a husband, a leader in bay route in july. so many i left all asking whether this strike to have hit the largest number of has been to members and to threaten that security was a one of attack oldest out of a much bigger conflict. imaging came back out to 0. the inside story that spring and i guess and they've route i'm on the honda executive director of the so need cost of the foundation which focuses on freedom of expression. i media development and the launch region and washington dc for as much as a senior director as the middle east institute and an expert on the politics of lebanon, syria, and the border dynamics of the middle east region and in law. now let us call in clock director of research at the c fun group, that's

a global intelligence. and for jewels he consult and see a very warm welcome to each of you. we have so much to get through, but i want to start with, i'm on and be rude. i'm on the people of levon on who have been through so much already. i'm probably full. they have seen it. how are they feeling today? there is a feeling of c or a now we're almost sure that we have not seen at all about the future. the next few days might carry developments that can go in any possible direction, including the worst ones. and this situation of fear of uncertainty of not knowing whether our kids would be able to go to school tomorrow or not. it's something that is pervasive. and you feel it in the way you interact with people, you repeat it. and the jokes, the dark humor that is spreading so widely online, but it's only a facade for us, a country that has been read of here. those who are opposed to hezbollah are very much afraid that the, the, the, the minutes in the group is bringing

a war onto the country that nobody has asked for. and at the same time, even supporters of football are now questioning how well protected they are. how secure they are when it's very important people within the organization could be target that so directly. and when something as important as the supply chain of one of the most secretive groups is, is exposed and which a lot of great points to pick up on the call. and let me bring you in on what i mom was saying about the supply chain. so far, the trail of who made the pages goes cold in budapest. what's you'll, siri, of with in the supply chain? israel managed to turn these pages into weapons. yeah. well, as you mentioned, i think, you know, all eyes are on the budapest, at the moment. tie, we got time to use company involved. i think if you think about how it meticulously

planned, this operation must have been. this is something the as early as less than a couple months ago. and i thing on the heels of the assassination of it's not on the intent wrong. this is an advertisement for massage. it's a way for them to kind of refurbish their brand, which was tarnished after the attacks of october 7th. it's also likely not the end of this campaign, and so i would expect to see more in the coming days and weeks and we can see a tax anywhere from 2 ron to, to bed room or beyond. i do want to talk a little bit later when you say that this is an advertisement from all side because we have to remember that among those codes as an 8 year old girl and an 11 year old boy that cannot be good publicity for any intelligence agency, the death of innocent civilians, but i want to also talk perhaps more importantly about what this does for has been less image for the us. the us government's former deputy national intelligence

officer on the middle east. so this would easily be the biggest counter intelligence failure that hezbollah has had in decades. would you agree, elizabeth? it's hard to overstate the impact of what unfolded in baby yesterday. i've heard it be referred to as a digital arossi mom. as far as his boss, communication capabilities is involved, no military organization can fine, can find blindly and what they've done with resume, i believe the most side has done, is essentially taking out a significant portion of his ball as command and control capabilities. so yes, on its own, this is a very significant blow. but when we take, you're also in the wider context. clearly israel has to be on more than escalate tori dominance and established that in the past 11 months to accomplish whether it is 1st targeted to the southern suburbs of bailey. to assassinate, i'm not as liter 11 and then cubic and bullet on chief of staff and lady july be

able to toward my husband was reported a response to that by 3 because attacked with significant americans out a few weeks ago. and now this, so his bullet has been built full and military blow, a technical blow, but more importantly, perhaps, as i'm was highlighting a very significant moral, grow and low. and i think cause bullet today fall, but that pace is a dilemma. it's a response and response, possibly that might get israel and the prime minister in particular, maybe not in yeah. with the projects he's looking for to expand as more and should their response be limited or not existing at all that further and bikes escalation . so it's a very difficult moment for us, but all right, now, and obviously everybody's, i don't see what it secretary general has some sort of that will have to say and much of waited speech tomorrow. i'm on, i want to ask your communications expert kind sizes, a wonderful thing, but how much of the situation are we in now with these pages being weaponized,

would you say is on how some national out himself, who made televise remarks earlier this year, telling hezbollah members to get rid of this smartphones saying that they are more dangerous than is really spies in hindsight, should he perhaps not have publicize those remarks? i don't know if tomorrow us, how's that gonna sound that we use as incentives? if i only knew the teenagers after the 2006 to lie, or given the consequences that we know because this goes for us, mention beyond just the technical capabilities. it's about identifying who the operative spar within seconds, before people realize what happens. images, thousands of images adventures were circulating on social media and therefore people were able to very simple open source intelligence to gather data. pictures of information about people tracking system is very easy. tracking,

the movement of ambulances is very open. records, back hospitals contain the name, the details, personal, these things are patients changing risk, southern li, just to main thing, the secrecy of some of the people. my book, the box easy. so the number of places today on social media, in the media and cost, it's a records and gloves. uh, you know, confusion records where names and details of very important people across such a secretive organizations are made public is not something easy to begin with. even if a decision to actually strike or or retaliate is bacon, there are plenty of question marks about other moves or other gaps within the command and control structure that might be exposed as well. so this is today is the kind of situation that everybody is graphic with and wondering what kind of response will happen in the next few days and calling before we talk more about how

hezbollah might respond to such an attack, one has bullet, sol said they believed that it was in response to an alleged assassination attempt on the phone. the top is where the defense official that was released that was revealed by as well on the same day a yeah, that's certainly maybe the motive for this. but in terms of timing, um, you know, i've heard all sorts of different policies that essentially, you know, when this operation was initially planned, those who plan to believe that as real would be active war, all that more of a testable. and this would be kind of a part of the opening stages or faces of that conflict. i've heard that, you know, there was some rumblings that has low as learning about this. and he is really sad to add before the plan was, was out. and, and so i think the fact that we're here that we're discussing and that there's all sorts of hypotheses floating around, is exactly what them solved was hoping for,

right? because it feeds into this kind of spike game shuttle or uh, you know, kind of overlay that many have been following and look, this is the continuation of the israel is going to more in the shadows with it wrong in the rounds prophecies. and as we all know, that's been ongoing far before october 7. and for the us we kind of ignore that. the attack came just alice off to as well, the announced it was voided and gets aims. and because of war 2 included, supplies against has been the along the northern border. is this attack? do you think parts of the new wiggle and how would war on its move in for to make it any easier for the 10s of thousands of his varies have been displaced from the north to the tub or yeah, elizabeth to echo with call in just said it's very hard to decipher at this point whether this is the opening salvo of a much broader more that's, that's the comment. certainly late breaking news to this morning. but is there

a isn't pack moving tens of thousands of troops from the up to that northern border of atlanta? so there's, there is they're making all the right moves that would have his, by level, even ron, to whom the highest is by law. that israel is, in fact, preparing for that's your question. um american diplomacy, american, the american administration has been very clear that israel will not be able to achieve militarily what it has been unable to achieve diplomatic rates that are more would bring only further devastation on to northern israel, given as well as or minimal arsenal of rockets and you a piece? yes we talk much, is that so? so far about out israel has been able to successfully establish escalation dominance. how has been able to penetrate is by using its superior intelligence capabilities. but since paula is still the most powerful non states actor in the world and one that's how message capabilities to shake. so the american

administration here differentiating itself from the israeli position. i was in the room last week when i'm of hochstein, a president, biden's and boy on this very issue was having arguments and making the case against israel brought in this war. and i think the fact that he had to travel to israel earlier this week, and that this attack literally came on the heels of him, the party, 6 volumes of the kind of daylight that we're seeing today between the american position. and he is really position. i'm not, it's not uncommon. is it for the israeli government to carry out considerable attacks, whether it's in gaza, whether it's 11 on elsewhere on the beach and just off the american officials leave as well after a visit. we've seen this time and time again, given everything that for the us has said about has bowlers capability being probably the strongest non state actors in the world? do you believe that as well does want more was hezbollah and how did people 11 on

feet of anxious i cannot speak for what the 3 the government wants, but it's very clear that the current situation, the car and start to school is not sustainable for any of the actors involved in this and this conflict. so politically, the situation in the north of the 1st row is not sustainable, and it's not sustainable either for the populations in south lebanon, it's an area that there's no completely destroyed. tens of thousands of lebanese people are also displaced in the country, the flex, any kind of infrastructure. there are even now discussions as of today, the 2026 parliamentary elections and nothing on will be postponed because of the situation. there are also question marks in loveland and related to the timing of any major authority escalation. will it happen before the november 5 elections in the us to force the hand of, you know, voters in the us, especially in case, for example, kind of the harris's pause, improve,

or whether they wait for up with an or an action to contribute to potentially at the feet of come out of harris and, and have a more sympathetic administration in place. so they, people are reading the tv. so when it comes to what can happen, what would happen? but what we know is that this attack further divided the lebanese people further. we can social fabric and 11 on the level of social media. this information that was spread, ms. publicly minutes after the the, the attack. i couldn't get campaigns against the american university of b routes. medical center, which was hosting for hundreds of the people who were one that was being attacked by a social media campaign, claiming that they got rid of the pager themselves for the doctors in order to avoid such an attack as using to the fact that they knew something about that which was complete faith can use it also was accompanied by a huge campaign to southerly remove from social media,

every single kind of picture, an image that came out of the attacks yesterday, while other segments of the police population works kind of celebrating what was what happens to a group they believe was responsible for assessing nations and not been on attacks on the syrian people. this climate and 11 on there's not one but with a lower country to sustain any kind of edition of crisis. definitely not a large scale or yeah, it's really interesting that you're saying that this has further expos divisions will lead to divisions and the social fabric. because i was list the liberties health minister earlier. and he was trying to say the exact opposite. he was saying how the time health care sector, although it's private, how it was on the to low cost of the thousands of injuries united. you know that it was a nice thing factor in that and not calling the again the attack itself. i'm on, i'll come back to you in just a moment, but i want to ask what your thoughts are on again the attack itself. is it a war crime given the indiscriminate nature of the attack,

isabel could not have known that who exactly who would have the pages or that they would be no civilians around when they exploded. and yet they decided to carry, we think, as well as carried out the attack. i guess it's a legitimate question i'm, i'm not an international lawyer. so i'll leave the question of more crimes to, to them. but certainly, any time, some of someone plans in attack where there's a high likelihood that civilians will be killed, that's certainly something that would qualify or be eligible for scrutiny as to whether or not that's a word from your, your right to point out in a sense were harmed including children, and that's the conversation that i'm having with a lot of folks. but i guarantee you the best, not the conversation that's taking place and tell what we were jerusalem, where the focus is likely on the quote and put the success of the attack. and again, is this a kind of afraid move to something broader? we'll have to wait and see and has was made it clear that it will respond. in many

ways it's forced to respond right because of the operational security or the opposite of this group was compromised. so significantly, it would be an embarrassment to not respond to this would expose as well as we of the, the truth becomes threading that needle where it has less response doesn't kind of further escalate and feed into the cycle that goes beyond just tit for tat. and, and results and something more of a broad. yes it, as i know, you know, you was saying earlier how hezbollah is basically damned if it does. and then if it doesn't, it's so hard to get the exact calculation. right. and, and how it responds. but i also want to talk about as long as the lack of response so, so far, at least after the assassination of hamas leader is mind. and the input on, at the end of july, has that involved in israel. would you say?

or there's no doubt about that, elizabeth, i mean, i think israel is sort of looking across the chessboard here in the middle east and the message that keeps coming back time. and again, escalation, escalation, uh, from israel is that both are ron and she's a lot are just not ready for a whole lot more. or at the very least, i do not have a preference for ron for 1st appoint israel, a 1000 cuts at a time rather than delivery and not taught blow to it in understand that it cannot deliver on the top load. that is your own is militarily superior. and so therefore, a uses this is variety of a non state accurate as most in groups throughout the region in line in syria interact with these am and 2 again come israel, a 1000 cuts out of time. so time and again, we see iran pulling back from the branch, his bullet pulling back from the brain. and therefore we heard disappear, leaner on only recently, talk about the importance or the legitimacy,

a tactical retreat. at times when you're strategic, you're brought us a key to objective is, is in danger. so why don't we call that pace with the current choices that you alluded to the down. and if you do in dance, if you don't have one that will take a different path, the us administration has put forward an opera to de escalate the situation. a diplomatic opera now has by that are on have time. and again, stress that they want the ceasefire in gaza 1st before the agreed to the american diplomatic initiative, it would cease and follow withdraw a certain number of kilometers off the as rarely. ready or is there a would also vacate some of the 13 disputed lines along the border with lebanon? and so there really is a passport for diplomacy. here we don't know yet whether basically the current array of options and by level 2 chaise to choose to take that off rap. i would suspect at a very minimum, it will have to undertake of concepts some form of performative action,

the state. okay? and again, our hope is that the positive to see will open their act. i'm on with what's it saying about a possible diplomatic, off ramp for hezbollah? is there any chance that they would do that given that they have said they will not stop their attacks because this is about as well as on gaza. bullet remains a very strong doctor when it comes to communication at some point. if they decide to agree to a certain the prologic solution, they wouldn't find a way to sugar coat to, to present it, to their audience. they did it when there was a maritime dealer related to, you know, the offshore oil and gas, you know, exploration initiatives in the mediterranean. it kind of happens the most important issues for us are how we sort of any society would be able to cope with what is coming. because you mentioned that earlier, while of course, the medical sector behaved so and such a noble way and professional way,

the pensions wrong, extremely deep. nobody is ready. nothing is ready for a major escalation of the conflict. and that any room for the, for them i think solution must be, must be photos for what's the level of damage that yes. so there's a fact inflicted on his bundle, but also on, you know, our publishing run and loving on should be an incentive for a diplomatic solution. but at the same time, there are different parties to the conflict, the level of pressure that should be placed on the nino whole government in order to you know, restrain some of the most extreme ascendancy is, is essential. otherwise, not only the pay the price, the entire region would be in a much more difficult situation. very, very soon i'm calling. we've seen that the us is not willing to use the leverage it has with as well to stop the war on gaza. but a war between as well and has below would be much more destructive. do you see it

using the leverage? it has to stop that conflict. i often question how much leverage the united states does have over as real. now circle the question that when they give millions of dollars in a to israel bush, maybe l reframe and say they're not. but i don't think any politician is willing to, again, 7 weeks out from an election. uh, you know, start taking those steps. unfortunately. do you think calling that as well does want will, would, has paula? i think benjamin netanyahu might want more testable. i'm not sure the idea for the as really people do or i, i am afraid we have run out of time, but i want to thank all of i guess for this fascinating discussion. that is, i'm on the honda for the us mark sounds and call him clock. and thanks you too for watching you can see the program again any time by visiting our website out

a 0 dot com. i prefer the discussion to go to our facebook page that facebook dot com forward slash a inside story. you can also join the conversation on x a handle as, as a inside story for me, elizabeth put on him and the whole team here, bye for now. the unique perspective, the american stablish that is going to go into the dr. using kamala harris's identity of the black women on heard voices, people who are close political affiliations, can get a way that can connect with our community and tap into conversations you find elsewhere. are we going to live in a world where it absolutely normal journalists are targeted and blamed for their own? little place on earth is changing the world order. the stream on out just the or

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the, the hello i'm darn jordan doe, have with a quick reminder of the top stories here on al jazeera, more communication devices of exploded in several parts of 11 on for a 2nd day. the death toll has not arisen to at least 20 people with more than 450 injured among the dead or civilians as well as hezbollah members. it comes a day off the page as belonging to his beloved, designated getting 12 people and injuring up to 2800 others entre 0 is ali hush and

that's more from tire in southern level 3 to the.