the administer from bangladesh, with 360 homes in britain, jerry looked down. you spent 200000000 in just a new you tank has vanished point. and the only thing you might want to say, i mean, how does your investigates the ministers, millions the mass attacked targeting has fallen members and 11 on devices. useful communication exploded in german, thousands and coming several as well as leaving israel. so is the risk of the biggest conflict. this is in 5 story. the

hello and welcome to the program. i'm elizabeth put on them is we're having the 11 on base group has, will not have been engaged in cross border conflicts. and as well as 1000 began nearly a year ago, concerns of a lot of conflict and now growing and off the series of quota native attacks targeted hezbollah members and 11 on on tuesday, they came a day after this lady pa, mister benjamin netanyahu said he'd make it a goal of his one, gaza, to return to thousands of his ratings displays by the volumes in northern israel. his father has blamed as well for the page, the explosions that ended more than $2500.00 people and as promising retaliation, as well as yet to comment, but it's on a is deploying additional forces to it's an open folder with levon on. so what will it has all those response looked like at is there were risk of a wider conflict. we'll put that to, i guess shortly. first, this report from the image and kimber. sizes of explosions, the coast 11 on,

and syria. from a cyber attack, the turned pages held by has been a member's into weapons, but the size of injuries hundreds are in a critical state. somebody using fingers suffering serious abdominal injuries, being blind the range and i'm positive 11 on the among them. well, they report say, his injury is a slight lebanon's hospitals, opinions of loans, and the death toll is still rising. many of those here has been a fight as well. there's some carrying the pages, told other roles within the group, like medics. and one was a young go another, how much must the, i'm on the phone have has been a member of parliament. ali m o r g y s i a. this is a new is really aggression, again, slip and the resistance will retaliate a suitable way and a suitable time has been the official is reported eco,

this the biggest security breach the group of space in the posterior conflict with this room. it's not yet clear how it was carried. died with speculation on whether explosives had been inserted into the pages before they were distributed. hesper, the members recently started using pages because it was believed they were less likely to be tracked than small fines. so the, so has put us squarely blamed is wrong even though we blame these right the enemy, they full responsibility for this criminal attack that also homes civilians. the treacherous and criminal enemy will get the fear. punishment for this cowardly attack is ralph has so far remain silent. right, and its powerful ally, the us, denied having any prior knowledge of tuesday's attack. alger is no us involvement in this, at all. sentiment the us has maintained since has blown on israel again across the

board. a conflict in response to the world garza but that hasn't stopped tensions rising and the conflict expanding with both sides. hitting deeper across the israel, lebanese border, and israel occurring at high level assassination of a husband, a leader in bay route, in july. so many of left all asking whether this strike to have hit the largest number of has been to members and to threaten its security was the one of the attack oldest out of the much bigger conflict imaging came back out to 0. the inside story that's bringing i guess, and baby route. i'm on the honda executive director of the so need concert foundation which focuses on freedom of expression. i'm media development and the divorce region and washington dc for as much as a senior director at the middle east institute. and an expert is on the politics of

lebanon, syria, and the pool, the dynamics of the middle east region and, and lol. now let us call in clock director of research at the c fun group. that's a global intelligence and security, consult and see a very warm welcome to each of you. we have so much to get through, but i want to start with i'm on and be rude. i'm on the people of levon on who have been through so much already. i'm probably full. they have seen it. how are they feeling today? and there's a feeling of c or a now we're almost sure that we have not seen at all about the future. the next few days might carry developments that can go in any possible direction, including the worst ones. and this situation of fear of uncertainty of not knowing whether our kids would be able to go to school tomorrow or not is something that is pervasive. and you feel it in the way you interact with people, you repeat it, and the jokes, the dark humor that is spreading so widely online. but it's only

a facade for us, a country that has been read of here. those who are opposed to hezbollah are very much afraid that the, the, the, the minutes and group is bringing a war onto the country that nobody has asked for. and i have the same time, even supporters of football are now questioning how well protected they are. how secure they are when it's very important people within the organization could be target that so directly. and when something as important as the supply chain of one of the most secretive groups is, is exposed and which a lot of great points to pick up on the call. and let me bring you in on what i'm on was saying about the supply chain. so far, the trail of who made the pages goes cold in budapest. what's fuel series of with in the supply chain? israel managed to turn these pages into weapons. yeah.

well, as you mentioned, i think, you know, all eyes are on the budapest, at the moment. tie, we go, time to use company involved. i think if you think about how it meticulously planned, this operation must have been. this is something the as early as like when come months ago. and i think on the heels of the assassination of it's not on the intent wrong. this is an advertisement for massage. it's a way for them to kind of refurbish their brand, which was tarnished after the attacks of october 7th. it's also likely not the end of this campaign, and so i would expect to see more in the coming days and weeks and we can see a tax anywhere from 2 wrong to, to bed room or beyond. i do want to talk a little bit later when you say that this is an advertisement from all side because we have to remember that among those codes as an 8 year old girl and an 11 year old boy that cannot be good publicity for any intelligence agency,

the death of innocent civilians. but i want to also talk perhaps more importantly about what this does for hezbollah as image for the us. the us government's full, a deputy national intelligence officer on the middle east. so this would easily be the biggest counter intelligence failure that has been that has had in decades. would you agree, elizabeth? it's hard to overstate the impact of what on hold it in favor. yesterday, i've heard it be referred to as a digital russian law. as far as his boss, communication capabilities is involved, no military organization can fine, can fight it blindly. and what they've done with, presumably the most size done, is essentially taking out a significant portion of his ball as command and control capabilities. so yes, on its own, this is a very significant blow. but when we take, you're also in the wider context. clearly israel has to be on more than escalate

tory governments and establish that in the past 11 months to accomplish whether it is 1st targeted to the southern suburbs of failure to assassinate americans, leader, and 11. and then cubic and bullet on chief of staff and lady july be able to toward my husband was reported a response to that by 3 because attacked with significant americans a few weeks ago. and now this, so his bullet has been built full military blow, a technical blow, but more importantly, perhaps is i'm was highlighting a very significant moral, grow and low. and i think cuz most of the day fall, but the faces of dilemma, it's a response and response. possibly that might get israel and prime minister in particular, maybe not in yet with the projects he's looking for to expand this more. and should their response be limited or not existing at all? the further invites escalation. so it's a very difficult moment for us. but all right, now, and obviously everybody's, they don't see what the secretary general has. and most certainly will have to say in a much awaited speech tomorrow. i'm on,

i want to ask your communications expert kind sizes, a wonderful thing, but how much of the situation are we in now? would these pages being weaponized would you say is on how some national out himself, who made televised remarks earlier this year, telling hezbollah members to get rid of this month phones saying that they are more dangerous than is ray the spies? in hindsight, should he perhaps not have publicized those remarks? i don't know if tomorrow us how something a sign that we use as incentives. if i only knew the teenagers after the 2006 to lie, or given the consequences that we know because this goes, i floss mention beyond just the technical capabilities. it's about identifying who the operative spar within seconds before people realize what happened. images, thousands of images, images were circulating on social media and therefore people were able to very

simple open source intelligence to gather data. pictures of information about people tracking system is very easy tracking. the movement of evidence is very open. records of hospitals contain the name, the details, personal, these things are patients changing this southern li, just 2 main thing. the secrecy of some of the people might both be boxed easy. so the number of places today on social media, in the media and costs, different records and gloves. uh, you know, confusion records where names and details of very important people across such a secretive organizations are made public is not something easy to begin with. even if a decision to actually strike or or retaliate is bacon, there are plenty of question marks about other moves or other gaps within the command and control structure that might be exposed as well. so this is today that

kind of situation that everybody is grappling with and wondering how what kind of response will happen in the next few days and calling before we talk more about how hezbollah might respond to such an attack. one has also said they believed that it was in response to an alleged assassination attempt on a former top is where the defense official that was released that was revealed by as well on the same day a yeah, that certainly could be the motive for this, but in terms of timing, um, you know, i've heard all sorts of different policies that essentially, you know, when this operation was initially planned for those who planned to believe that as real would be active war. all that more, which has fall and this would be kind of a part of the opening stages or faces of that conflict. i've heard that, you know, there was some rumblings that has low as learning about this. and he is really sad to add before the plan was, was out. and,

and so i think the fact that we're here that we're discussing and that there's all sorts of hypotheses floating around, is exactly what them solved was hoping for, right? because it feeds into this kind of spied game shuttle or you know, kind of overlay that many have been following and look, this is the continuation of the israel is going to more in the shadows with iran in the rounds prophecies. and as we all know, that's been ongoing far before october 7. and for the us we cannot ignore that. the attack came just alice off to is where the announced it was voided and gets aims. and because of war to include its flies against has been the along the northern border. is this attack? do you think parts of the new will go and how would war on its move in for to make it any easier for the 10s of thousands of his varies has been displaced from the north to ra ted as yeah. elizabeth to echo with call in just said it's very hard to

decipher at this point, whether this is the opening salvo of a much broader more that's, that's the comment. certainly late breaking news to this morning. but is there a isn't pack moving tens of thousands of troops from the up to that northern border of atlanta? so there's, there is they're making all the right moves that would have his bottle. even braun, to whom, behind since by law, that israel is in fact preparing for. that's your question. the american diplomacy in american, the american administration has been very clear that israel will not be able to achieve militarily what it has been unable to achieve diplomatic rates. that will more would bring only further devastation on to northern israel, given as well as or minimal arsenal. of rockets and you a these? yes we talk much, is that so so far about out israel has been able to successfully establish escalation dominance. how has been able to penetrate is by using its superior

intelligence capabilities. but can paula is still the most powerful, non state actor in the world, and one that's how massive capabilities to shame. so the american administration here differentiating itself from the israeli position. i was in the room last week when i'm of hochstein, a president, biden's and boy on this very issue was having arguments and making the case against israel brought in this war. and i think the fact that he had to travel to israel earlier this week, and that this attack literally came on the heels of him. the party of 6 volumes of the kind of daylight that we're seeing today between the american position. and he is really position i'm on it's not uncommon, is it for the israeli government to carry out considerable attacks, whether it's in gaza, whether it's 11 on elsewhere in the beach and just off the american officials leave as well after a visit, we've seen this time and time again, given everything that for the us has said about, has bowlers capability being probably the strongest non state act in the world?

do you believe that israel does want more was hezbollah and how did people 11 on feet of anxious i cannot speak for what the through the government wants, but it's very clear that the current situation, the current status go, is not sustainable for any of the actors involved in this and this conflict. so politically, the situation in the north 1st row is not sustainable, and it's not sustainable either for the populations in south lebanon, it's an area that is now completely destroyed. tens of thousands of lebanese people are also displaced in the country. the flex, any kind of infrastructure. there are even now discussions as of today, the 2026 parliamentary elections and nothing on would it be postponed because of the situation. there are also question marks and robin and related to the timing of any major authority escalation when it's happened before the november 5 elections

in the us to force the hand of you know, vote there is in the us. especially in case, for example, kind of the harris's polls improve or whether they wait for up with them or, and actually to contribute to potentially at the feet of come out of harris and, and have a more sympathetic administration in place. so they, people are reading the tvs when it comes to what can happen, what would happen. but what we know is that this attack further divided the nice people further, we can social fabric and 11 on the level of social media. this information that was spread, miss publicly minutes after the the, the attack. i couldn't get campaigns against the american university of b routes, medical center, which was hosting for hundreds of the people who were one that was being attacked by a social media campaign, claiming that they got rid of the page years themselves for the doctors in order to

avoid such an attack as using to the fact that they knew something about that which was complete faith can use. it also was accompanied by a huge campaign to southern the remove from social media. every single kind of picture, an image that came out of the attacks yesterday, while other segments of the police population were kind of celebrating. what was, what happens to a group they believe was responsible for assessing nations and nothing on attacks on the syrian people. this climate and 11 on is not one, but with a lower country to sustain any kind of additional crises. definitely not a large scale or yeah, it's really interesting that you're saying that this has further expos divisions will lead to divisions and the social fabric. because i was listed to liberties health minister earlier and he was trying to say the exact opposite. he was saying how the time health care sector. although it's private, how it responded to look after the thousands of injuries united. you know that it was a nice thing factor in that and not calling the again, the attack itself. i'm on, i'll come back to you in just a moment,

but i want to ask what your thoughts are on again the attack itself. is it a war crime given the indiscriminate nature of the attack, isabel could not have known that who exactly who would have the pages or that they would be no civilians around when they exploded. and yet they decided to carry, we think, as well as carried out the attack to yes, i said legitimate question i'm, i'm not an international lawyer, so i'll leave the question on war crimes to, to them. but certainly, any time, some of someone plans in attack where there's a high likelihood that civilians will be killed, that's certainly something that would qualify or be eligible for scrutiny as to whether or not that's a war crimes you're, you're right to point out the innocence were harmed including children, and that's the conversation that i'm having with a lot of folks. but i guarantee you, uh, that's not the conversation that's taking place in telling me more jerusalem,

where the focus is likely on the quote and put the success of the attack. and again, is this a kind of afraid move to something broader? we'll have to wait and see and has was made it clear that it will respond. in many ways it's forced to respond right? because of the operational security or the opposite of this group was compromised. so significantly, it would be an embarrassment to not respond to this would expose as well as we, uh the, the truth becomes threading that needle where has was response doesn't kind of further escalate and feed into the cycle that goes beyond just tit for tat and, and results and something more of a brock. yes it as i know, you know, you was saying earlier, how has vala is basically damned if it does and then if it doesn't, it is so hard to get the exact calculation. right. and, and how it responds. but i also want to talk about it last lack of response so

so far at least after the assassination of how mos lita is mind and the input on at the end of july has that involved. and israel, would you say the others know that about that, elizabeth? i mean i think israel is sort of looking across the chessboard. you're in the middle east and the message that keeps coming back time. and again, escalation, escalation, uh, from israel is that both are ron and people are just not ready for on hold off more . or at the very least, i do not have a preference for the ron for 1st appoint israel, a 1000 cuts at a time rather than a delivery. i'm not top below to it and understand that it cannot deliver on the top load. that is, your own is militarily superior, and so therefore, a uses this is variety of a non state accurate these most in groups throughout the region in lot in syria, in iraq with these am and 2, again come israel, a 1000 cuts out of time. so time and again,

we see iran pulling back from the branch is bulk pulling back from the brain and therefore we heard disappear, leaner on only recently, talk about the importance or the legitimacy, a tactical retreat. at times when you're strategic, you're brought us a key to objective is, is in danger. so why don't we call that pace for the current choices that you alluded to the down. and if you do in dance, if you don't have one that will take a different path, the us administration has put board an off craft to de escalate the situation. a diplomatic opera now has by that are on have time. and again, stress that they want the ceasefire in gaza 1st before the agreed to the american diplomatic initiative. it would seasons below withdraw a certain number of kilometers off the as rarely border is there. i would also vacate some of the 13 disputed lines along the border with lebanon. and so there really is a passport for diplomacy. here, we don't know yet whether basically the current array of options and by level 2

chaise to choose to take that off rap. i would suspect at a very minimum, it will have to undertake of concepts some form of performative action, the state. okay. and again, our hope is that the positive will see will open their act. i'm on with what's it saying about a possible diplomatic, off ramp for hezbollah? is there any chance that they would do that given that they have said they will not stop their attacks because this is about as well as on gaza. bullet remains a very strong doctor when it comes to communication at some point. if they decide to agree to a surface and the plastic solution, they would find a way to sugar coat to present it, to their audience. they did it when there was a maritime dealer related to, you know, the off shore and oil and gas, you know, exploration initiatives in the mediterranean kind of happen. the most important issues for us are how we still have any society would be able to cope with what is

coming. because i, you mentioned that earlier. why, of course them ethical sector behaved so and such a noble way and professional way. the pensions wrong, extremely deep. nobody is ready. nothing is ready for a major escalation of the conflict. and that any room for the, for the magic solution must be, must be photos, perhaps the level of damage that yes. so there's a fact inflicted on his bundle, but also on, you know, our publishing around 11 on should be an incentive for a diplomatic solution. but at the same time, there are different parts as to the conflict, the level of pressure that should be placed on the nino whole government in order to you know, restrain some of their most extreme. this tendency is, is essential. otherwise, not only the pay the price, the entire region would be in a much more difficult pursuit situation. very, very soon i'm calling. we've seen that the us as,

as not willing to use the leverage it has with, as well to stop the war on gaza. but a war between as well and has below would be much more destructive. do you see it using the leverage? it has to stop that conflict. i often question how much leverage the united states does have over as real. now circle the question that when they give millions of dollars in a to israel bush, maybe i'll reframe and say they're not really do you use that leverage? you're absolutely right. and there are things united states could do, but politically, especially in a, in a year of a presidential election. they're not going to do that. the other piece, this is, as you pointed out earlier, israel conducts these attacks as soon as the us diplomat leaves, as an american citizen, i find that in raging. i think it's an embarrassment that oftentimes the as rarely as act as the senior partner in the relationship that y'all are coming and giving speeches in the us congress criticizing or right to protest. so i'm often offended

by the way it is realized behavior in that relationship i wish the dynamics were different. but i don't think any politician is willing to, again, 7 weeks out from an election. uh, you know, start taking those steps. unfortunately. do you think calling that as well does want will, would, has paula? i think benjamin netanyahu might want more testable. i'm not sure the idea for the as really people do or i, i am afraid we have run out of time, but i want to thank all of i guess for this fascinating discussion. that is, i'm on the honda for the us mark sounds and call and clock. and thanks you too for watching you can see the program again any time by visiting our website, elda 0 dot com. i prefer the discussion to go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash a inside story. you can also join the conversation on x. a handle is at

a inside story from me, elizabeth put on him and the whole team here, bye for now the they for another to defend the american constitution. again. so why would they take up homes against the country as the us heads towards the presidential election? a new series explodes, the role of military veterans in far right column groups. that's a crew to the potential threat to democracy against all enemies on outages era threats from this going, often heard, but rarely seen. think of each belly twins circular of people's hips around the

clock. treated with cameras, paper tight. so it's a inst, intelligence to display though it's not a treat present but one of the, of these rhetoric forces use drones in america ways to drones, emulates a crying baby or barking dog. so you come out to see what is going on, then your front isn't kills by these. drones wants to predict 20 noise clouts formed as people wages pulled out right with a trucks tac toe and split among watkins that opened fire. i'm clicking around 112 people, what became known as slower mess. everidge road set. click above is a threat to the lives of people here and the sound is clear. the minds of that they are being worked with no one safe with americans more divided than ever. are we watching the end of the american era? the us once to keep the war in ukraine going to russia's will, is broken for,

is that strategy working? what to do if there is no date after in israel's war on gaza? the quizzical look at us politics, the bottom line adopters, rate pin moto wine on duty has shopped, nation. it's also left these medical stuff in the saved lives, fighting for their own safety. the rated motive case at the college called hospitals has highlighted major security. they use a public hospitals for testing. doctor said it's time for the government to improve the safety and working conditions of the safety. tv commerce here on working. if the safety to the cameras were working out the object cost hospital, they would have been able to identify the comp, print southfield us. we're going to go with a high number of patients, an image of the soul. across india. it's left to some doctors coming on to attack by patients, families when they haven't got mission of feel they haven't got the right care.

most people in india rely on public health care at the government. drug tests with, with getting treated at these hospitals is often difficult the . ready ready hello, i'm fairly valuable in doha, with the headlines on outages 0. communication devices have been exploding to the 2nd day and 11 on killing 20 people and enjoying more than 450 of those. among the dead are civilians as well as hezbollah members. it follows tuesdays, destination of pages belonging tests will allow which kills 12 people and injured up to $2805.00 is, is really government officials have not commented on the bass, but he's really on the radio is reporting that it's forces at the lebanon border will be at a state of maximum alert.