these well, the minister from bangladesh, with 360 homes in britain, jerry looked down. you spent 200000000, just a new agent you take has vanished up any point. yeah. the only thing you might want to say, i mean, how does your investigates the ministers millions as well as waiting assumptions after 2 days of promotion, test, positive members and civilians as well and have them commented on the explosions that says it's opening a new phase and it's gone down into the tenant, fight onto funds, and is there any host of a diplomatic solution? this is inside story, the

hello and welcome to the program on elizabeth put on the people of 11 on our on edge 2 days of attacks toggles and communication devices have rational the country . thousands of people have been injured and 37 killed, including children. has bala, whose members with haga to says is the was security breach, since the one goes up again, it's blaming israel and has to, i tend to retaliate. the lebanese aviation authority has now banned pages and will pay till he gets from one aircraft with as well, moving, sold as north, towards the border with levon on what's next. and this escalation, conflict, and other remote device attacks, a violation of international know we'll put that to august shortly. but 1st, this report from the image and kinda the 2nd wave of explosions hits 11 on 1st, was pages this time, all kinds of communication equipment,

from wookey to piece to radios and batteries were turned into booms. one of the bloss struck a funeral as people were burying the dead from the previous attack. hundreds of engine on top of the thousands injured on tuesday. and several more were kim already overwhelmed hospitals will push to their limit of the i'm already elation left. move on edge the, the money, the money cannot we treated one patient off to another. we were working non stop. i took my 1st break off to 5 am here in the office. and now i came back in the morning for you is for what's coming. what's coming is big. this week's attacks have been condemned by international rights groups, including the un, with calls for an investigation of the kind debility. time between is targeting of

thousands of individuals without knowledge as to who was in possession of the target to devices, their location, and the surroundings. at the time of the attack, riley's international human rights law and to the extent applicable international humanitarian law, hezbollah, these members were targeted in the attacks. his leg is wrong. but these ready government, the sofa, remain silent. however, its defense minister says there was a new phase of the war on garza and his ready troops being sent to the northern border with lab and on the sheet. no, it goes over. the center of gravity is moving off, meaning that we are moving resources and forces and the energy in the northern direction. we haven't forgotten the hostages, and we haven't forgotten goals in the south. this action is being done by all the bodies. and the goal is a clear one level, it's simpler to retain the residence of the communities in the north, to the home,

safely, comments that are only intensifying phase of a wider conflict. walcross board of fund continues with has been a striking at least 4 locations in northern israel and lebanon's kind of take a prime minister and the national disaster and crisis committee. so click on start piling food, preparing shelters, and ready and hospitals for what might come image and kimber out of sarah for inside story that's bring in august and they wrote not show up on sunday, but a member of the 11 east parliament in dire m u k, robert guys pen followed a lecture on peace and security as dom university as an expert on strategy and territorial conflict, and also and be rude to jamal and goals and call them just as i've been used paper, a very warm welcome to all of you, jamal i'll stop with you when we recorded the show a day ago we thought we had

a good idea of how the pages exploded. since then we have walkie talkies phones, laptop, solar panels, blowing up up people in level not as has bala is 11 east palm and any the wiser on how this could have happened. well, we have some more information and then of course there is a mississippi to how to carry the last game to leave the machine. but uh oh, uh, in the ladies at the word with the leasing office. but uh, so those are the i see the btn mentioned in may was but uh, we cannot know for sure. this is the most likely scenario. the, the, the,

here's the other devices where at least with these explosives, robin, do you think that as well could have template but so many different devices. we think that the pages and the walkie talkies for both around the same time, around 5 months ago. but what about the rest of the devices? well, and there's been some actual, there's been more and i guess information here on this topic that actually is roles didn't necessarily tempo with them. in many cases, they might have even bills of and a lot of things and examination of some of the devices has suggested that that lacking some distinctive serial numbers. for example, an identification that would suggest they all coming from the company where they claimed to originate, and it's looking more more like this wasn't as very shell company or a ghost company operating in hungry, but also possibly in bulgaria using an older international brands. as i kind of

a smoke screen to make it look like it was a legitimate to come to the one of course it was and, and this seems to been going on for some time. so most of those pages, we know one is probably may in 2005, starting 2020 full probably. that has on this rather suggested the, anyone involved who has listed stop using that mobile phones and come switch over at 2 pages. but there is a suggest not been seeing reports now that actually is relevant setting these devices because of these 20212022. so it's been slow. they've been slowly appearing in lab and then primarily in the hands of has blood members and operatives, and obviously for me as well. this is a big at 2. it's a sort of thing that excites people because it looks like a sort of pulse you would see in a kind of airport thriller know some, some spine movie and books at the end of the day to results here all very much in question. how baseball play out,

whether it will end up readings and hezbollah on this route to watch is very much an open question. yeah, absolutely not. a robot is talking about how you know this has excited some people in israel, but it has tuned and injured it's ended. many civilians killed civilians including children, which is why we've heard various un officials say that this is a violation of international law or others have said that it's pure terrorism. it is a terrorist attack because of its indiscriminate nature and the fear that it's southern and people 11 on measure of how would you categorize this attack and how should the lebanese parliament and government respond to it. thank you for this question. uh definitely this is a terrorist attack that has, that has been done or was done by user id and i think it has 2 levels. definitely the 1st level is that the news people have it and do the consequences of this

attack. but the 2nd level is a global level. we really need to look at this starting on what can be, and i can relate them or discriminate them or together. because this is not only the on the people and this is that i, it's an assignment on on then you might have a clause because once the commodity views on the basis become what categories i think we become the do these types of attacks and cyber attacks so i think that we think that you and the security council for acting and i to read on domain this kind of is a dime and we call on the international community to continue looking and going. and there's a good amount of that. and also trying to good international treaties or, or some type of international collaboration to regulate or band those types of

attacks or gather. yeah, it would be really interesting to see what this unprecedented attached. what, you know, what kind of restrictions on you precedence it leads to both in how a tax are carried out and the efforts to stop them jamal a full most as she said, the exploding devices were meant to cause panics, trust, and shock, and demonstrate as well. as ability to breach has bola secure lines of communication. what impact will this have on the group? well ok, let's. uh, also keep in mind that the page i suppose is a place when the time it's in visual. some can easy by his words, right? car yesterday and we're a little the you said the wall is we and as we used to do so it was here. it is even grocery stores. so uh and

around the last evening. so this is meant to tell me it's the relation, but as far as military is less than this, so it would be the same because you know, for the military. so as soon as you see the operations, the day of the year, precise is, i guess military arms. i mean, is there any research on the use of communication devices or one of the few or the, the, the features and the use uh with uh, the used for raw messages. and uh, so this is

a really strong so, so the military effectiveness of robert, do you agree with that about the military effectiveness of this attack? and why did you think as well carried out this attack now? and no, i don't find whether you think the attack is legitimate to illegitimate. i think this is an operational success race route, whether it's a strategic or a potential. success is another story. but we know this was talking primarily against has been that members and fights is yes, not people up in the highest chain of command. the ordinary members of the organization, many of whom lost limbs lost all the sites they all day full rented, come back in effective in the event of a future conflict with israel away has had to remember that it's not that the. it wasn't just hezbollah combatants that had the devices, right? well, i always the, some of those devices find the way into the hands of, of the people who are not the intended targets,

but the vast majority of targets. and what we're hearing was affiliated with hezbollah. in some way, shape or form either in the military or civilian role. i think it's important to note that most of the political leaders would actually talk in these attachments. some exceptions might be a rating on bosses or to let them in, for example, but it will also have a psychological impact as well as a soldier whether you're in that, whether your power, military or military organization. it doesn't matter. you want the equipment you've been given by you will come on this to work. you wanted to save your life and you wanted to be able to do what you wanted to do. and this is the case of the, of the not happening, but also actually endangering the lives of the people who got hold of this equipment. and they would've got hold of it as a result of orders from at the chain of command. it has for the why israel did this? well, i think um, as well as goals here have been consistent. they basically want to get hezbollah to remove itself. sam ultimately told, with a sex in southern lebanon,

and also border with northern israel. they, they dress, may seem as to what used to do with this one is to use military force. i do start a war on the other one is through negotiations through diplomacy initially set the effective of the diplomatic approach. but as time is going forward and seeing israel escalate more and more and more and with military means now traditionally they've been very, very bad at using military means to secure this area since 19 seventies, as well as based on these problems groups that south of us on the river threatening israel's territory, the tires they have so they're very, very bought in terms of doing this. he started the book that trying to do so. again, i think there's a change in his role is talked to display napa, see the actually, even if they might not want more, has the once more even less than them so they can keep helping the anti and pressure and his route pressure and hezbollah, sorry. and maybe try and force it to unilaterally withdrawal to the tony river. i very much dab this is going to happen. there's no evidence for this whatsoever. but

this is a um, a tactic has been taken seriously with it as well. i'll tell you, is it all on talk shows all throughout the day. so it shows you where as well. so which egypt thing you need is what to expect in the starting mission of the story. and not sure what is the lebanese parliament's thinking on what as well as doing on its northern border. we've heard from the these attacks took place at the same time that we've heard that the is waiting mid a tree is moving. it's $98.00 division that into thousands of troops, power trip, infantry units elite to come under forces. they are moving them to the northern border. does the lebanese parliament believe that as well as preparing for war with his butler? we believe that 11 on has been in a state of war since october 8, 9 to the you to go. so i now mind maybe the more we wouldn't be escalating, but the south southern 11 on has been really in a state or over

a year. we're going on own own parties, all the members of the farm and to live in the state, and to go to the government and food in the board. and that's for 2 years now and elected president, because without having a president, we would not have a solid and state that we'd be negotiating with the board. or we can all live on the, the murder of immunization that does not represent the opinion or, or the members of the problem in and like, i don't, or people never know, we change and we have both to have, you know, told upon our settings to go in and for the state thing and for region stating the state for the interesting thing that we don't know. and we want all the comments today before tomorrow to go into the constitution and go to the bottom and elected president. because by electing a president, we didn't think this that uses,

we would have an active government who wouldn't be able to negotiate and to address of concerns to the security council, to all the international community, to model what do you make of what you've heard so far? that's nothing on it needs to guess it's government in order. it needs to elect presidents so that it's not, has been law essentially representing a nation and possibly taking it to more with as well. the more is to leave israel. this is gonna be $745.00 or so under a $100.00. so the dispute, the total here just use the uh there was, this is the state of florida and they are the only thing keeping

uh is uh, missing what their company name is not the nissan service or a task that would be the most cable. what's the, uh, it's actually the, uh, the school is off. this is the, this is, was the, the, is the, the security council definitely bought a new method to your president. really. wow. so yes, that is due to the more of the job right now, which is very nice and the. ready documentation need is the address issue,

the maybe the safety of the services that are going to come from as see if they have to take. uh so and then the end of the lease, uh to last a robot we're hearing from jamal. they're saying that's for now, it is hezbollah who acts as a deterrent to stop israel from doing what it's done in gaza in lebanon. and you were saying that you were saying area that is well, has made a calculation that it doesn't want to go to war. but that has been law, has even less of an appetite to goes war. but despite that, there are many people who think that this is randy prime minister does want to go to war. at a recent poll by the is really a think tank. the democracy institute showed that 67 percent of jewish responders thought that as well should actually intensify its response to hezbollah. so

whatever, and as well as initial intentions before unleashing these attacks, do you think that the government will face domestic pressure to capitalize on the momentum that it has right now by carrying out such an attack on hezbollah? yes, i think this me showing very well with these drugs, domestic opinion and public opinion in israel. let's not forget that there are 60000 displaced is raised from northern israel. he was living in temporary accommodation and shelters just as are many thousands of displaced lebanese and so the 11 and there is intense and increasing public pressure on these realms government to do something about this is one of those. and then it's very rarely done and assessed rates basically create the dfcs and buffers own all they know, i say securities, i don't even saw it. it's on board is by evacuating such a vast amounts of territory within it. such a large means nationally recognize borders. this is quite unprecedented on it is putting a lot of strange, all these drugs going to come perception,

they must act. they must do something against hezbollah and this war of attrition. israel does not like it wasn't nutrition, it feels like it. um, it does very poorly as its economy. it's, it's track record is not very good is around once a rapid and decisive outcome, which is why it keeps escalating in terms of these strikes to try and get out of this cycle of daily tit for tat attacks. between both sides now and the key issue here is that i think, you know, yes, this is an operational advantage, really actually is quite sort of impressive. and if you look at it from a intelligent studies perspective books, and the key question he has is, well, actually for votes has bled into starting a war now. and that would be so much if there's pressure from non has left on the $8.00 to $11.00, these not to endanger 11 in steve, just as a result of a reckless little between the 2 actors as well. um has the best bull. so significant pressure building internally and has bullet to act against israel

following these attacks, we can think of the model number of people that been killed. the number of people have been wounded, this psychological damage that i'm so israel is really playing with fire in this prince. the game of bringing the chip or something, but looks to other was that was impressive at the moment operationally, but the jerry still very much at all right. whether in the long run, this is a good move or not. yeah, jamal, i want to come to you in just a moment with the point that robot is making about internal divisions within has bella itself, but not just how much has this ongoing tensions between has vala and as ro, phone divisions in lebanese society itself. and you touched on this earlier about the lebanese parliaments needing to come together. but just how difficult a position does this put the lebanese government in when, as well says that it's war is with has ball law. and yet at least a 100 more than a 100 civilians have been killed 11 on since the 1000 again. exactly. so 11 on is

already on its knees, with the economic collapse and with the blast that we experienced in 2020. so we don't want, we need more destruction. and if we do need to protect our sense from the item you, we need to be all together in sort of that indeed is with the solid and state in order for us to do the next hour sentence from big a. sit on the not just when you say we need to be altogether is negative. sorry, sorry to interrupt. i just want to be more than to the knees on the forces. haven't been really up to the up to the center then up to the expectations every time they haven't been assigned to any responsibility. we need 170 is army forces. one forces that projects i would borders. one force that could really be also it wouldn't be a bad thing or the buttons the for the inputs. and one thing you cannot,

we cannot continue looking the and fixing crisis one after the other. it's we, we haven't been living in this type of war for over 15 years. i think it's time to start, the thing is said and without spending a stage, i think we will be pushing on prices after prices. the prices, nothing we bid of the state except that every institution, all the of the institution of the government and that should do see the role for has viola and that, and the rebuilding of that state. the members of the parliament. let's come together and the management reinstate the instant the public institutions all live on the golf course as well as part of the government. and they are part of the government constitutions and constituents. this rest of the course, jamal about what robert was saying earlier that they might even be divisions within has on the, on how to respond to as well. what do you make of that,

and how do you expect it to respond? i mean, the last couple of days to do this there, there will be a car service fee for including after this nation managers. uh, we use the practice of law restrains. uh whether we use the law utilities trying not to cause things to escalate it. so a lot more, but the room uh to see the expense base rent in line for the for themselves might be cross. and the monthly model, you see the new one that is right in this area in order to pay more and more stop

action to be able to be seen. okay. all right, and we don't have very long left of the program involved. it, i'd like to ask you the last question. time and time again over the last year. we have asked of the tensions between us rather than has bella, how much close to the bush as $2.00 and $4.00 out regional will. how would you characterize the moments that we're in now in the context of the past year? john is right. and as a result, we close at that as a, because a very significant internal pressure on has pulling out to escalate things. if that was a constraining effect from lebanese to saw it beyond hezbollah has little now be feeling a pinch too with how the 8 most strongly companies really saw it as well. israel feels increasingly like it is done or when it can do in golf. and what you agree with the more oh no, there's this feeling the israel is basically and completed this operation with objectives. it's based in spelling the kitchen sink at how much the american move

is military units to the north. so a projectile fee is confrontation with has the sides, both sides all gearing up the wall. i noticed that this on this program several times before, but we are closer than ever to a full outcomes like neither side ones. it, but that's never stopped, was in the past from escalating into time to work at this point. the best intentions on both sides or i have that as i show for today. thank you to own of, i guess my job owens sally. but, and they wrote robert guys, pencil and durham, and jamal goes and also, and they wrote and thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website out of the com. as a further discussion to go to our facebook page, that's facebook dot com forward slash a inside story. you can also join the conversation on x i handle is at a inside story for me, elizabeth put on him and the entire team here. bye for now. the

a little or no was on the reason why the minister from bangladesh with the 360 homes in britain, jerry looked down. you spent 200000000 in just a new agent you came has vanished at any point. and then the only thing you might want to say, i mean, how does your investigates the ministers millions a pod came into the say say that you'll government as oppressive policies, respect of human rights, with this most important task. mike, all of them in facing realities. what you're saying is that you are restricted by the is released in terms of your movements at the time that so i thought that it was stick to the thought provoking on says how much with the trip do you think and

policies right now to us it seems to be spreading more easily via the story on talk to how does era i think the global system is broke. therefore the system does not solve itself. we're going to have to find new ways we do not need fossil fuel. the 2nd is people knowing what to do, the saving consciously do the right things. that will help us solve this problem, not by knowing everybody else and it's enough to one sense. there's a false expectation, particularly among rich people, that they can survive every day. even rich people are going to be affected by the impacts of climate change and they're going to have to settle fish behavior. this is what got us into this problem. and surface behavior will not get us out of this from the

challenges here, where the slow i'm fully back to boeing though, how with the headlines on algebra, israel has lifted restrictions, it put on communities in the north, and the occupied goal and high 5 to a wave of strikes on 711 on these really military says it hate hundreds of targets in what's been described as one of the heaviest bombing campaign since the start of the war on guys. and nearly a year ago, early it has bullet launch, dozens of rockets towards northern israel. the growing conflict comes as has the leader has signed the throttle that has vowed to retaliate for coordinated attacks that kill.