rated the natural world and stages of the year. now his music has been re composed by alteration intelligence using projected 2050 weather data to reflect the global climate emergency. culminating in a disturbing life performance himself career. dis, nokia or of sol on al jazeera. donald trump says detailed reports, millions of undocumented immigrants, if he's elected us president in november, couple of harris argues that reforms and type in the security of the solution. so how will immigration shapes the upcoming election? this is inside story, the hello welcome to the program. i'm adrian, instead of going today,

we're looking at the positions of the to us presidential nominees on immigration, and whether it's a make or break topic on who will next sit in the white house. the democrats coming on harris says that she wants to fix a broken system, but republicans dominate. donald trump says that she's not up to the task of that his strong stance and plan to carry out. most people stations is what's best for america. so will be on scale guess is immigration policy, a deciding factor for many americans, voters? what's the difference between the 2 candidates policies and how important is the migrant workforce to the us economy? but 1st, a report from imaging campbell immigration is one of the pivotal issues in the us presidential election. 1 may sway many on the side invite is the democrats know, many coming to harris says she wants to help legitimize some on documenting immigrants, or especially agricultural workers. we must also reform are broken immigration

system. and so text our dreamer and understand we can do both create an earth pathway to citizenship and ensure our border is secure. we can do both and we must do both to time city face, but also advocating for a bipartisan bill on board of security that would increase border controls and restrictions on who can immigrate to the us. democrats tried to pass the bill during j biden's 10 years president, but it was stopped in congress by republicans, parasites a time as california is attorney general, as an example of how she can be tough when the legal immigration. she says she was drug smugglers and criminal guns. harris has condemned as human rights abuse policies, the republican candidate donald trump imposed while in office to the to illegal immigration by separating parents from the children near the border between mexico

in the us. we all remember what they did to tear families apart. and now they have pledged to carry out the largest d port taishan, a mass deportation in american history. imagine what that would look like and what that would be. how is that gonna happen? massive rates. massive detention camps, but trump says he wants to be the board, the president expanding on his previous policies, such as finishing the war along the us mexico border and carrying a large scale deportations. we got 21000000 people that came into our country and bathing our communities, invading our cities in our downs and destroying our country. and i'm angry about venezuelan jang steak, you know, over aurora, colorado, and i'm angry about a legal haitian migrants taking over springfield, ohio. you see that mess?

don't you? during a ton of bodies debate in the us last week between trump and harris, trump claim migrants in springfield, 18 people was pets. a claim debate and wanted to stop checked on said was on substantiated. trump also claimed criminal harris would be what he called the invasion president, to take it over our country from with it and i made can you believe that the way that we got grandma i'm angry about young american girls be with the admitted by savage criminal aliens that come into our country very easily, but very illegally. i'm going to say immigration is being how you what the noise is, a political tool. when in reality, many american industries rely on michael workers and stricter rules would have a negative impact on the country's economy. and building day america was built on

immigration imaging, kimber out to 0, inside story that spring. and i guess for today's discussion in burlington vermont with joined by i showed her some . he's a democratic political strategist and found a convey communications from tucson, arizona. we joined by alexandra miller entry and see you at the scene a, a non profit corporation that seeks to empower immigrant justice advocates from washington dc, but joined by patrick mara, sherman of the washington republican party. a will welcome to you all showed, let's start with you just how big an issue is immigration for american votes as it's a continuous issue, it's come up in most elections of the last i would say a couple decades. so it's a reliable issue that the people will make into a partisan issue. of course, that's what we're seeing right here. it doesn't mean it's necessarily an issue

that's anchored in facts and data. and then you saw just from that last clip, the kind of emotional energy and weights, and frankly, the kind of lives that are spread by some of the candidates in this case by down front we just heard this is an issue that has often been used to try and wedge and divide voters from each other and distract from other issues. so that's, i think a lot of what we've been seeing in this, this last debate and some of the rhetoric we've just heard. but how big an influence is the issue going to be in the presidential election? it's not going to be as big as issues like abortion, the economy. and it's going to be something that moving some people in some places . but again, the reason that you hear donald trump and judy vance, talk about it so much is because they think that by selling division, that they have an advantage over it. and that we won't focus on issues like, for example, abortion quite as much issues where democrats have

a strong lead and strong advantage. alexandra, to what extent are donald trump and the g o. p playing dog whistle politics here of immigration? yeah, i think the rhetoric, the rhetoric surrounding immigration is incredibly dangerous, and we've seen that coming out of been debate as well. but the language for our friends in the class about patient and friends in springfield, ohio is particularly trouble a. it's been me my side, but the reality is he's in the, in, in springfield, ohio are now facing retribution. we're just trying to exist and trying to contribute to that community. i really hold that in a country like united states where immigration is such a set of sole tiller of our economy and the of our communities that we would be able to find more embassy and how we talked about and frame these issues around immigration. how do immigrants feel about the store that's being whipped up around them by people like donald trump?

so i, i don't want to try to pretend to speak on the immigrants behalf. but as someone who is from a border community has worked in border communities for years now, i know what the impact looks like here on the ground. and as an immigration adjusted advocate, it's incredibly hard to stomach the victory and all that being lobby that immigrants, when immigration is not a problem in and of itself, immigration is a central feature of humanity. since humans have existed and finding ways to humanely facilitate immigration, whether for humanitarian reasons for seeking people who are fearing persecution, and facing death in their home countries, or people seeking a better future. united states has asked for the notion of the american dream, and that is something that we're proud of. we should want to include people in that patrick and so he's smiling at what, what should we're saying? how big of an issue is immigration going to be in this presidential election? president trump claims that there was

a 21000000 undocumented immigrants in the us. how can you be so sure. how can you put an accurate figure on it? doing well according to customs and border control data, there's been a 10200000 a legal crossings since the binding. harris administration took over a president biden. i've produced an executive order. they created significantly greater leniency to allow more people to come into the country. i think a big differentiation here is i'm a huge proponent of legal immigration as our most republicans, as our most democrats. but here we're looking at illegal immigration. and the fact of the matter is we just do not know who is crossing the border on the democratic side. you know what vice president harris supports of sanctuary states x rays, cities in all 50 states tear and the different columbia. and frankly,

that just encourages more immigration, she supports free health care for all legal immigrants, and that you know, that includes transgender surgery that includes a whole host of, of areas that certainly incentivize folks to come into this country for good or bad reasons. and certainly what your border is, is basically fairly open at this point. i look, a lot of people are going to come here. there's a sick, you know, there's a significant percentage that are coming here for not from, you know, south america. they're coming from other countries. there's a, a, i believe it's 80808200 who are on the terror watch list, who across the board, the southern border. and now what, this is a huge issue in sweep space. there are organizations running commercials saying

that com or harris supports a better. all right, this is the thing that everybody made fun of. you know, 4 years ago, 8 years ago weren't passed the time brought up a border wall, frankly. 8 years ago, i was taking it back by the idea of a border wall. but now this is main stream and people care about this. and then particularly in swing states, they care about the immigration issue. here in washington dc. there are a slew, an african american voters, particularly are on the road, american males who care about the, the illegal immigration issue. so this is an issue in the election. certainly our shots come back on on, on what patrick was saying. so this is what such as a pointing, and that's talking about these, this issue isn't really done in a factual basis, are often less context. but across these are down compared to years ago. for example, yes, we all support legal migrations. but when you take a look at the rhetoric from trump and vance, in particular, you just play to click where donald trump was talking about haitians. the haitians

who are here and have been here for years are here legally, and a program called temporary protective status. it's the same program that brings ukrainians here the same program that allows them to work and be productive lives and contribute to their communities. so when i hear, oh, this is fine, this just works really works for the pro legal migration, the trump administration, and the plan, the agenda that they have not only is draconian and how it deals and documented migraines that systematically reduces even the pathways to legal migration and as you've heard just from this last clip, demonizes and spreads of wise counsel dangerous lies about people who hires who are here legally. there is a huge crime wave in springfield. what there is right now is haitian to are here, legally came here to saw the seek refuge, legally are now under threat physical threat. there have been bomb threats, school evacuations. this rhetoric is dangerous. it's not based on facts and it's

farms, the fabric of our society. a fabric is notice that is comprised of migrants and immigrants, like my parents, who came here to demonize people just because they are new here. regardless of whether they're here legally or not, is destructive to our politics and destructive to our country. and that's the direction that from advanced decided to take this to be. we could have had a debate on immigration, we could have passed a bi partisan immigration built, one that contain provisions actually, frankly made many democrats uncomfortable. but because compromise is necessary for solutions. we compromise on a republican lead initiative to pass immigration bill. donald trump tank that and that was a, one of the questions he just refused to answer and account for at the debate. that's when he talked about his crowd sizes, number one, and then spread a vile and malicious, lie about people's pets. in what haitians are doing to them,

okay, that's still a couple of rhetoric that the trump advanced campaign has stooped to alexandra and i'll come back to you and just a moment, but i want to get patrick the right to reply on that one up. trump claims that there are a rather he has said, the migrants of poisoning the blood of the country. and i mean, i'm sure there's right, there's no, i mean the man is sponsored dangerous rhetoric here. yeah. certainly i would use different language and i am not here to talk about haitian legal haitian immigrants eating dogs in ohio that's been disproven. the republican governor said that is not accurate. there are a lot of stories. the day of the debate on twitter. i think there was to this was taking place, so i'm definitely not here to argue, argue that point. i'm not here to argue against any legal. first of luck. i was elected here in washington, dc. i representatives of a population that was

a plurality of immigrants. and you know, obviously i probably come from hamburger and smart myself. uh, not as close to the democratic panelists, but you know, my grandparents came over and we need a good system of legal immigration. the problem here is we've left the border go too far. we've left the southern border go too far. you know, 1700 pounds of federal fentenol receives. uh, you know, dirt, you know, just recently over the last, during this administration and lot, i mean, this is one of the leading killers love, are you the people at the age formed, but by that's a chance that, that pretty patrick but that's, that's criminal was getting getting on disguising themselves as this nearly both the next one. all right. okay. um sandra a. trump in herself stock. 3 different views on how immigration should be handled. even as president binding has been accused of an acting policies that the critics

argue as restrictive as the form of president trump's as someone who represents an organization that but seeks to empower immigrant justice advocates. the candidates proposals on integration, practical sensible. and do you think that americans really care well, i hope that americans really care. and before they go into that, i want to touch on 2 quick points on the prior discussion. one important point when we're talking about the regular versus irregular migration, it's important to note that it is legal and protected in the us law to seek asylum in this country. and so i reject the framing that you know, this is illegal, immigration writ large, this is the countries founded on due process fundamental fairness and an access to counsel. and that is something that we're walking away from. anything you see that and in both camps you're absolutely right. you know,

i worked at the border during the tire administration and i saw 1st hand the impact of the border closure and returned to mexico and other really detrimental anti immigrant anti asylum policies. but the reality is we're seeing a lot of those teams policy is implemented at the border right now. there's a numerical cap on how many people can see the silo per day. there is a people can only seek asylum by applying for the slot at the border, 2 and a half, and are reading upwards of 7 months at the border and dangerous conditions. and the reality is that, you know, under the trump administration, those policies play directly into the hands of the theme criminal organizations that my front of here is, is referencing right. and we're talking about, you know, dangers of drugs crossing the border. we're can sleeping immigrants with criminal and they're not the same people by and large,

the folks or trafficking drugs across the board, or are american citizens seeking to make a profit off of them in here in the united states, asylum seekers of the backpack in the desert or not people hearing and he was of that to hi sandra. as patrick was pointing out the attempts to cross the border of, of risen dramatically in the last few years. apprehensions at the border 1st on the president, trump went up from somewhere around 400-0021 point 6000000. the net rise continued on the president binding to more than 2200000. and what is behind that? that shop rise in, in the number of people attempting to cross into the us. there are multiple variables at play here and so we can describe it to one individual. say, i think one factor is the border closure under title 40 to a policy closing the border protect strongly related to coping 19 i'm creating

a backlog. people who wanted to seek asylum, who were not able to despite the framing of a fight and harris as an open door, open border presidency. the reality is that the border has been largely shot. but i think that rhetoric that the border is open, that's been a lot, is also appealing and also something that can draw people here, right, to miss freeman, what the policies actually are and what the policies look like. can be of the co factor. so there's also the reality that it's become a really profitable industry for you. there's and organized crime. and when people don't have sees and legal and regular ways to come to the united states, desperation can lead them into really dangerous hands. are sure to what extent does the, the us economy need immigrants and why is no one making that case in

the us economy absolutely needs immigrants in order to function we wouldn't have for me to kind of me, we wouldn't have a manufacturing economy that town in springfield, ohio is an excellent example. this is a town that was in decline 4 years ago, and as temporary protective status is granted to asians and renewed it. so you have sions, people came into that town seeking work and the did employer start hiring people? this, the town racked by an open, a crisis that was lacking workers. businesses were leaving the haitian community came in and revitalized this town. and you can hear that story out of the amount that were public in mere a springfield, a high, springfield, ohio is one of many towns including my town and growing to vermont. that relies on this. but here's the thing. migration isn't simply about the economic benefit of united states. people have been migrating us. we've talked about people that migrating since the beginning of times as borders existed. and every time people to, it's because they want to go to better life themselves,

their family and the community that they're going to call. so that is a real desire and real earth that happens. so we can either rationally approach this in the united states. there's quite a bit of benefit to that billions trillions of dollars of economic work, or we can resist the urge and start this horrible process that we've been down this road criminalizing people. people we need to, we've been in this country by hamstring our own cells. for making sure that people can start lives productively here in the united states. this rhetoric that the republican party has been pushing out there and competing on for us in a long one, in the short one actually. but it's all done to divide and distract us from other issues. it's always easier to find escape coach than it is to have to defend and on popular agenda. it's patrick you said right at the start of your and advocates of legal integration bearing in mind, well, i shot this was saying, just, i'm not going to go white on the g o p and, and donald trump selling migration as

a net gain. why are they engaging in douglasville politics? charlotte bennett's migrate. migration is a huge game for our country. the issue is legal versus a legal. so for example, if you heard a legal evergreen who crosses the border, you're much more likely to be taking advantage of the us. you, you can't necessarily get out and id might not be able to get a social security numbers might not be able to get, or possibly i can a green card, etc. and so it's not these people, these illegal immigrants don't always just plug right in and start doing into the above afford economy either in the underground economy in many cases. and so that's again, we hardly hardly support legal immigration. i mean, moving around the, in washington dc, there are a lot of illegal immigrants. probably some illegal immigrants were being paid under the table were, are doing construction as well as many,

many other jobs. and that's just, those are just simply going to be coming from the possibly coming from the side borders. so patrick white is especially white. why not? uh, so to the us public policies that, that encourage people who are at the moment and documented in the united states to come forward and become a fully fledged us citizen. so that paying into the social security, as you said, i'm not trading the. yeah. well, and instead we built this threat to the strength of mass and d potations. if, if donald trump takes the white house. and so the big issue here is that there is the stick. it has not been turned off. and so it is still fairly easy to get into the us if you really want to get into the us from the southern border. and that is an issue for folks who, what, who are coming for good reasons for us as, as a nation and kind of is what color is about coming on. how is this fault as well, what they said they weren't job. i didn't have an executive order that took away

all the, you know, the, the trump provisions, the create a great, a border security and we'll get sort of catch a virtual that we're building a wall. um, you know, they released, you know, i think it was uh, you know, to, to really, to 1000000 people were just given a blanket. uh, forgive, you know, forgiveness for being here. and um, you know, it is that the lack of interest in doing anything about the bore until this past year, i think is really a big deal now that it is an issue in suite many swing states, the democrats are stepping up. again, it is comical. the comm wire supports the building of horner wall. now, you know that some, something to 8 years ago republicans may not have supported. and so i think she is taking a great or, you know, she's now taking i to arm a tough on integration stance. but the issue is if she's elected president, if you're going to have free health care, if you're going to have a lot of free,

other stuff that is only going to increase traffic and before. and so we need a system that allows people to come in legally into this country, and that is not the system that we have at the southern border at this point in time. right. alexander, i'm going to give you a final word in just a moment, but i went ahead once more from from should i should like about 30 seconds to a minute to. and if we support a legal migration into the united states democrat or republican, then we can't support donald trump because he has tried to limit legal immigration as well. h one, b visas guest worker passes. a green card. these are his stances. this is the republican domini, give you the present united states. if you support legal migration. if you support 2 main migration policies in the united states, we go for a regular, then you can't support donald trump. that's the issue here. you can say and distract us from that, you know, say we support legal migrations,

but donald trump in writing and speaking this talked about. he wants to restrict migration of all kinds. that's what creates this kind of problem in the 1st place. and alex, over here you heard me talking to patrick about that some promise by donald trump to launch a massive deportation effort if he's elected in november. what are your concerns about that threats and, and what would be the implications for the us is obligations as far as human rights are concerned, or the mass deportation is not only in humane. it's also impacted the level of enforcement, the high level of detention and expensive for profit, private detention centers. there are drain on our economy. is, is completely unrealistic. but more importantly than that, it is a policy that would tear apart families and separate parents from american citizen children. and i think it is for getting back to sort of this dichotomy between good

and my friends and that, and my friends doing it the right way versus doing it the wrong way. when the reality is needed, created a system where there is no right way to to come for many people in an incredibly desperate circumstances. you have one platform that is even considering making an end run on birth rate, a citizen citizenship, which is a bedrock of, of, of american nationality. it doesn't make sense. and i think it's incredibly disingenuous to frame this as, you know, one party supports immigration, but only if we do it legally well, same time they're making an end run on, on all legal immigration as well. okay, fair. we must end it many thanks indeed to you. oh, i'll shut the house on. alexander miller and patrick moreau as always, thank you for watching. you can see the program again at any time by going to the website at all just 0. don't com for further discussion. join us at our facebook

page at facebook dot com forward slash h a inside story, and you can join the conversation on x on handle. the agent inside story from me, adrian said again, and the team here. and so, thanks for watching, i'll see you again, bye for that. the a little or no bizarre. these administer from bangladesh with 360 homes in britain. jerry looked down. you spent 200000000 and just a new agent. your time has vanished point yet. the only thing you might want to say, i mean, how does your investigates the ministers, millions with americans more divided than ever? are we watching the end of the american era?

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