the people across the globe are taking action times, running, filed at the lower end, that comes in germany, environmental campaigns. so facing those lots of authorities. and in some cases being labeled extremes for using direct action. protests, people empower, investigates climate correct down on which is era. donald trump says of hilda for millions of undocumented immigrants, if he's elected us president in november, couple of harris argues that reforms on types and security of the solution. so how will immigration shapes the upcoming election? this is inside story, the hello welcome to the program. i'm adrian. instead of going today,

we're looking at the positions of the to us presidential nominees on immigration. and whether it's a make or break topic on who will next sit in the white house. the democrats coming on harris says that she wants to fix a broken system. but republican dominate donald trump says that she's not up to the task of his strong stance and plan to carry out. mess deportations is what's best for america. so will be on scale. guest is immigration policy, a deciding factor for many americans, voters? what's the difference between the 2 candidates policies and how important is the migrant workforce to the us economy? but 1st, a report from imaging campbell immigration is one of the pivotal issues in the us presidential election may sway many on the side invite is the democrats know many come on. the harris says she wants to help legitimize some undocumented immigrants, or especially agricultural workers. we must also reform are broken immigration

system and so text our dreamer and understand we can do both, create an earth pathway to citizenship and ensure our border is secure. we can do both and we must do both to time cities, but also advocating for a bipartisan bill on board of security that would increase border controls and restrictions on who can immigrate to the us. democrats tried to pass the bill during j biden's 10 years president, but it was stopped in congress by republicans harris. so it's a time as california is attorney general, as an example of how she can be tough when the legal immigration. she says she was drug smugglers and criminal guns. irish has condemned as human rights abuse policies that republican candidate donald trump imposed well in office to the to illegal immigration by separating parents from the children near the border between

mexico and the us. we all remember what they did to tear families apart. and now they have pledged to carry out the largest the port taishan a mass deportation in american history. imagine what that would look like and what that would be. how's that going to happen? massive res. of the massive detention camps, the trump says he wants to be the boy, the president expanding on his previous policies such as finishing the will allow me us mexico border and carrying a large scale deportations. we got 21000000 people that came into our country and bathing our communities in bathing our cities. there are thousands in destroying our country. i'm angry about venezuelan gangs taking over aurora, colorado, and i'm angry about a legal haitian migrants taking over springfield,

ohio. you see that mess don't you? during your tele boys debate in the us last week, between trump in harris trunk claim migrants in springfield, 18 people's pets. a claim debate wanted his fact checked and said was on substantiated. trump also claimed carmella harris would be what he called the invasion president, to take it over our country from with it. and i mean, can you believe that the way that we got grandma i'm angry about young american girls being with murdered by savage criminal aliens that come into our country very easily but very illegally. i'm going to say immigration is being how you what the noise is, a political tool. when in reality, many american industries rely on like workers and stricter rules would have a negative impact on the country's economy. and building day america was built on

immigration imaging, kimber out to 0, inside story that spring. and i guess for today's discussion in burlington vermont with joined by i showed her some . he's a democratic political strategist and found a convey communications from tucson, arizona. we joined by alexandra miller interim. see you the scene a, a non profit corporation that seeks to empower immigrant justice advocates and from washington dc, but joined by patrick mara, sherman of the washington republican party. a will welcome to you all showed, let's start with you just how big an issue is immigration for american votes as it's a continuous issue, it's come up in most elections of the last i would say a couple decades. so it's a reliable issue that the people will make into a partisan issue. of course, that's what we're seeing right here. but it doesn't mean it's necessarily an issue

that's anchored in facts and data. and then you saw just from that last clip, the kind of emotional energy and weights, and frankly, the kind of lives that are spread by some of the candidates in this case by down front we just heard this is an issue that has often been used to try and wedge and divide voters from each other and distracts from other issues. so that's, i think a lot of what we've been seeing in this, this last debate and some of the rhetoric we've just heard. but how big an influence is the issue going to be in the presidential election? it's not going to be as big as issues like abortion, the economy. and it's going to be something that moving some people in some places . but again, the reason that you hear donald trump and judy vance, talk about it so much is because they think that by selling division, that they have an advantage over it. and that we won't focus on issues like, for example, abortion quite as much issues where democrats have

a strong lead and strong advantage. alexandra, to what extent are donald trump of the g o. p playing dog whistle politics here of immigration? yeah, i think the rhetoric, the rhetoric surrounding immigration is incredibly dangerous, and we've seen that coming out of the debate as well. but the language for our friends in the class about patient and the friends in springfield, ohio is particularly trouble. a, it's been me my side, but the reality is he's in the, in, in springfield, ohio are now facing retribution. we're just trying to exist and trying to contribute to that community. i haven't really sold that in a country like united states where immigration is such a set of sole tiller of our economy and of our communities. that we would be able to find a more embassy and how we talked about and frame these issues around immigration. how do immigrants feel about the store that's being whipped up around them by people like donald trump?

so i, i don't want to try to pretend to speak on the immigrants behalf, but as someone who is from a border community has worked in border communities for years. now i know what the impact looks like here on the ground and as an immigration adjusted advocate, it's incredibly hard to stomach the victory and all that being lobby that immigrants, when immigration is not a problem in and of itself. immigration is a central feature of humanity since humans have existed and finding ways to humanely facilitate immigration, whether for humanitarian reasons for seeking people who are fearing persecution and facing death in their home countries, or people seeking a better future. united states have asked for the notion of the american dream, and that is something that we're proud of. we should want to include people in that patrick and so are you smiling at what, what i should was saying? how big of an issue is immigration going to be in this presidential election? president trump claims that the

a 21000000 undocumented immigrants in the us. how can we be social? how can you put an accurate figure on it or, well, according to customs and border control data, there's been a 10200000 a legal crossings since the binding harris administration took over the president biden. i've produced an executive order that created significantly greater leniency to allow more people to come into the country. i think a big differentiation here is, i'm a huge proponent of legal immigration as our most republicans, as our most democrats. but here we're looking at illegal immigration, and the fact of the matter is we just do not know who is crossing the border on the democratic side. you know what vice president harris supports sanctuary states x ray cities in all 50 states tear and the different columbia. and frankly,

that just encourages more immigration. she supports free healthcare for all the grants. and that, you know, that includes transgender surgery that includes a whole host of, of areas that certainly incentivize folks to come into this country for good or bad reasons. and certainly with your border is, is basically fairly open at this point. i look, a lot of people are going to come here. there's a sick, you know, there's a significant percentage that are coming here who are not from, you know, south america, they're coming from other countries. there's a, a, i believe it's 80808200 who are on the terror watch list who was across the board, the southern border. and now what, this is a huge issue in swain states. there are organizations running commercials saying

that. com or harris supports about. all right, this is the thing that everybody made fun of. you know, 4 years ago, 8 years ago, one past the time brought up a border wall frankly, 8 years ago, i was taken aback by the idea of a border wall. but now this is mainstream and people care about this and, and particularly in swing states, they care about the immigration issue here in washington dc. there are a slew, an african american voters particularly are kind of wrote american males who care about the, the illegal immigration issue. so this is an issue in the election. certainly our shop come back on on, on what patrick was saying. but so this is what such as a pointing and that's talking about these, this issue isn't really done and a factual basis are often less context. but across these are down compared to years ago. for example, yes, we all support legal migrations. but when you take a look at the rhetoric from trump and vance, in particular, you just play to click where donald trump was talking about haitians. the haitians

who are here and have been here for years are here legally, and a program called temporary protective status. it's the same program that brings ukrainians here the same program that allows them to work and be productive lives and contribute to their communities. so when i hear, oh, this is fine, this just works really works for the pro legal migration, the trump administration, and the plan, the agenda that they have not only is for connie and, and how it deals and documented migraines that systematically reduces even the pathways to legal migration, and as you've heard just from this last clip, demonizes and spreads of wise counsel dangerous lies about people who heart, who are here legally. there is a huge crime wave in springfield. what there is right now is haitian to are here, legally came here to sought to seek refuge, legally are now under threat physical threats. there have been bomb threats, school evaluations. this rhetoric is dangerous. it's not based on facts and farms,

the fabric of our society. a fabric, as was noted, that is comprised of migrants and immigrants, like my parents, who came here to demonize people just because they are new here. regardless of whether they're here legally or not, is destructive to our politics and destructive to our country. and that's the direction that from advanced decided to take this to be. we could have had a debate on immigration, we could have passed a bi partisan immigration built, one that contain provisions, actually, frankly made many democrats uncomfortable. but because compromise is necessary for solutions. we compromise a republican lead initiative to pass immigration bill. donald trump take that and that was a, one of the questions he just refused to answer and account for at the debate. that's when he talked about his crowd sizes, number one, and then spread a vile and malicious, lie about people's pets. in what haitians are doing to that,

okay, that's still a couple of rhetoric that the trump advanced campaign has students to alexandra and i'll come back to you in just a moment, but i want to get patrick the right to reply on that one up. trump claims that there are a rather he has said, the migrants of poisoning the blood of the country. and i mean, i'm sure there's right, isn't it? i mean, the man is sponsored dangerous rhetoric here. yeah, certainly i would use different language and i am not here to talk about haitian legal haitian immigrants eating dogs in ohio that's been disproven. the republican governor said that is not accurate. there are a lot of stories the day of the debate on twitter. i think there was to this was taking place, so i'm definitely not here to argue, argue that point. i'm not here to argue against any legal person luck. i was elected here in washington, dc. i representatives of a population that was

a plurality of immigrants. and you know, obviously i probably come from hamburger and smart myself. uh, not as close to the democratic panelists, but you know, my grandparents came over and we need a good system of legal immigration. the problem here is we've left the border go too far. we've left the southern border go too far. you know, 1700 pounds of federal fentenol receives. uh, you know, dirt, you know, just recently over the last, during this administration and lot, i mean, this is one of the leading killers love, are you the people at the age formed, but by that's a chance that that had pretty good patrick. but that's, that's criminal, was getting, getting on disguising themselves as this nearly pulled. and that's my. all right. okay. yeah, um, sandra a trump in herself stock 3 different views on how immigration should be handled, even as president binding has been accused of an acting policies. but the critics

argue as restrictive as the form of president trump's as someone who represents an organization that but seeks to empower immigrant justice advocates, either candidates proposals on integration, practical, sensible. and do you think that americans really care? well, i hope that americans really care and before they go into that, i want to touch on to quick points on the prior discussion. one important point when we're talking about the regular versus irregular migration, it's important to note that it is legal and protected in the us law to seek asylum in this country. and so i reject the framing that you know, this is illegal, immigration writ large, this is the countries founded on the process fundamental fairness and an access to counsel. and that is something that we're walking away from. anything you see that and in both camps you're absolutely right. you know,

i worked at the border during the tire administration and i saw 1st hand the impact of the border closure and returned to mexico and other really detrimental anti immigrant anti asylum policies. but the reality is we're seeing a lot of those teams policy is implemented at the border, right. and that there's a numerical cap on how many people can see the silo per day. there is a people can only seek asylum by applying for the slot at the border, 2 and a half, and are reading upwards of 7 months at the border and dangerous conditions. and the reality is that, you know, under the trump administration, those policies play directly into the hands of the theme criminal organizations. i'm that my front of here is, is referencing right when we're talking about, you know, dangers of drugs crossing the border, we're can sleeping immigrants with criminals and they're not the same people by and

large the folks or are trafficking drugs across the board or are american citizens seeking to make a profit off of them in here in the united states, asylum seekers of the backpack in the desert or not people hearing. and he was of that to hi sandra, as patrick was pointing out the attempts to cross the border of, of risen dramatically in the last few years. apprehensions at the border 1st on the president, trump went up from somewhere around 400-0021 point 6000000. the net rise continued on the president binding to more than 2200000 of what is behind that, that shop rise in, in the number of people attempting to cross into the us. there are multiple variables at play here. and so we can describe it to one individual say, i think one factor is the border closure under title 40 to a policy closing the border protests truly related to coping 19, i'm creating

a backlog. people who wanted to seek asylum, who were not able to despite the framing of a fight and harris as an open door, a wind border presidency. the reality is the border has been largely shot. but i think that rhetoric that the border is open, that's been lot, is also appealing and also something that can draw people here. right. so miss freeman, what the policies actually are and what the policies look like. can be of the co factor. and there's also the reality that it's become a really profitable industry for you. there's and, and organized crime. and when people don't have sees and legal and regular ways to come to the united states, desperation can lead them into really dangerous hands show. to what extent does the, the us economy need immigrants and why is no one making that case in

the us economy? absolutely. needs immigrants in order to function, we wouldn't have from the economy. we wouldn't have a manufacturing economy that town in springfield, ohio is an excellent example. this is a town that was in decline 40 years ago. and as temporary protective status is granted to patients and renewed it. so you have sions, people came into that town seeking work and they did employer start hiring people. this is the town, racked by an open, a crisis that was lacking workers. businesses were leaving the haitian community came in and revitalized this town, and you can hear that story out of the amounts of that were public in mere a springfield, a high, springfield, ohio is one of many towns including my town are going to vermont that relies on this, but here's the thing. migration isn't simply about the economic benefit of united states. people have been migrating us. we've talked about people that migrating since the beginning of times as borders existed. and every time people to, it's because they want to go to better life themselves,

their family and the community that they're going to cost. so that is a real desire real or if that happens. so we can either rationally approach this in the united states. there's quite a bit of benefit to that billions trillions of dollars of economic work, or we can resist the urge and start this horrible process that we've been down this road criminalizing people. people we need to, we've been in this country by hamstring our own cells. for making sure that people can start lives productively here in the united states. this rhetoric that the republican party has been pushing out there and competing on for us in a long one, in the short one actually. but it's all done to divide and distract us from other issues. it's always easier to find escape coach than it is to have to defend and on popular agenda. i patrick, you said roger this not to your and advocates of legal integration. i barely get my shot. this was saying, just, i'm not going to go white on the g o p and,

and donald trump selling migration as a net gain. why are they engaging in douglas? will politics? sure. be next. migrate. migration is a huge game for our country. the issue is legal versus a legal. so for example, if you heard of legal evergreen, who crosses the border, you're much more likely to be taking advantage of the us. you can't necessarily get out and id might not be able to get a social security numbers might not be able to get or possibly i can a green card, etc. and so it's not these people, these illegal immigrants don't always just plug right in and start doing into the above afford economy either in the underground economy in many cases. and so that's again, we hardly hardly support legal immigration. i mean, moving around the, in washington dc, there are a lot of illegal immigrants. probably some illegal immigrants were being paid under the table were, are doing construction as well as many,

many other jobs. and that's just, those are just simply going to be coming from the possibly coming from the side borders. so patrick, why it is structured white, why not? uh, so to the us public policies that, that encourage people who are at the moment and documented in the united states to come forward and become a fully fledged us citizen. so that paying into the social security, as you said, i'm not trying to. yeah, yeah. well, and instead we built this direct the strength of mass and d potations, if, if the whole trump takes the white house. and so the big issue here is that there is the stick. it has not been turned off. and so it is still fairly easy to get into the us if you really want to get into the us from the southern border. and that is an issue for folks who, what, who are coming for good reasons for us as, as a nation, are these companies have come law is about coming on. how is this fault? well, let's say they weren't job. i didn't have an executive order that took away all the,

you know, the, the trump provisions, the create a great, a border security that will get sort of controversial, that we're building a wall. um, you know, they released, you know, i think it was uh, you know, to, to really, to 1000000 people were just given a blanket. uh, forgive, you know, forgiveness for being here. and um, you know, it is that the lack of interest in doing anything about the bore until this past year, i think, is really a big deal now that it is an issue in sweet, many swing states. the democrats are stepping up again. it is a comical that com wire supports building a corner wall. now, you know that some, something 8 years ago republicans may not have supported. and so i think she is taking a great or, you know, she's now taking a tom, a tough on integration stance. but the issue is that she's elected president, if you're going to have free health care, if you're going to have a lot of free,

other stuff that is only going to increase traffic and before. and so we need a system that allows people to come in legally into this country, and that is not the system that we have at the southern border at this point in time, right? i think so, i'm not going to give you a final word in just a moment but, but i went ahead once more from from should i should like about 30 seconds to a minute to. and if we support a legal migration into the united states democrat or republican, then we can't support donald trump because he has tried to limit legal immigration as well. h one, b visas guest worker passes. a green card. these are his stances. this is the republican domini, due to the present united states. if you support legal migration. if you support 2 main migration policies in the united states, legal or irregular, then you can't support donald trump. that's the issue here. you can say and distract us from that, you know, say we support legal migrations, but donald trump,

in writing and speaking this talked about. he wants to restrict migration of all kinds. that's what creates this kind of problem in the 1st place. and alex over you have been talking to patrick about that some that promised by donald trump to launch a massive deportation effort if he's elected in november. what are your concerns about that threats and, and what would be the implications for the us is obligations as far as human rights, a consent as well. the mass deportation is not only in humane, it's also impacted the level of enforcement, the high level of detention and expensive for profit. private detention centers that are trained on our economy is, is completely unrealistic. but more importantly than that, it is a policy that would tear apart families and separate parents from american citizen children. and i think it is for getting back to sort of this dichotomy between good

immigrants and that, and the grid is doing it the right way versus doing it the wrong way. when the reality is needed, created a system where there is no right way to to come for many people and it's incredibly desperate circumstances. you have one platform that is even considering making an end run on birth rate is citizen citizenship, which is a bedrock of, of, of american nationality. it doesn't make sense. and i think it's incredibly disingenuous to frame this as, you know, one party supports immigration, but only if we do it legally well, same time they're making an end run on, on all legal immigration as well. okay, fair. we must end it many things indeed to you. oh, i'll shut the house on. alexander miller and patrick mara. as always, thank you for watching. you can see the program again at any time by going to the website at all, just 0. don't com for further discussion join us. busy facebook page at facebook

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