or at least 214 people have died. so 90 i go, has more from 54 to independence to reach me. this was not the reception that was anticipated. and angry crowd pelting the king and queen with much insight, telling them to get no one young demand shows that the king, hosting, why there was nobody around to help. while the king did his best to listen, failed to calm. the rage eventually mounted police for the whole scene to stop the situation spiraling out of control. the unprecedented floating, i'm the slow government response has made people furious, but also desperate. we are photos to understand that all we just wanted to be move

this all we want it and we would have been safe. this is why emotions are running high 5 days after the disaster. and there was still so much disruption and much that is on there while the missing for those of a course in a few or you got the slugs chopped and rubble. and so you may never a much for some know high profile visit. however, well intentioned, can ease the pain, they are feeding machines on the hood, put them in the other one, and that when people come here for a photo opportunity that makes me serious. but we have to move on. look at the streets is going to take months, typically find the dead level, but it was so badly organized from the start. main during the day is people had been dealing with a devastation that has hit this town. they are exhausted and they are angry. got people sar cheese,

who they feel has let them down. also now the weather has lessened to make recovery more difficult. the seemingly never ending tre. lamont and who is making the black honda for the hundreds of volunteers. you've turned up to help media of again a is it on colleges from another town she's brought into a central medications such as insulin. today's you need it. the one we have developed in community. this is critical, yet the government has done nothing for us. the town reading some tragedy with no apparent and insight. so in the vehicle i'll just sarah, i bought that. does it for me? carrie johnston, you can find more information on our website. i'll just say what the can you say on obviously, or off to upfront stick the

a full year of war in gaza. and now it is really troops invading lebanon or the us in israel working to reshape the entire region. who do americans trust to handle their economy? immigration, and the wars and ukraine and gaza? a quizzical look at us politics. the bottom line is away from one of the most consequential elections in us history. couple of harris and donald trump are neck and neck in the polls. some on the left is saying that they woke back, harris accusing her of complicity in israel's genocide and gaza. so how will progresses vote, that conversation is coming up, but 1st, as trump ratchets up his authoritarian and incendiary rhetoric, his critics say he would bring fascism to the white house. so what a trump, when the genuine threat to us democracy. alas, trump's former acting chief of staff, this was headliner, big moving the

mobility, thanks so much for joining me on upfront. thank you for having mark. the election in united states is just days away and you're backing a former president, donald trump. now, this is a man who has been convicted of 34 accounts of corporate fraud been found liable for sexual abuse. he's talked about deploying the military to deal with the enemy within a term he uses for his domestic political rivals. his riley at madison square garden featured slo speakers, we use racist rhetoric and called his opponent, vice president, complet harris. the anti christ implied about migrants eating pets in ohio is even called for the termination of the us constitution. modeling is election laws the last time around. i see you advocate that there is a level of certainty to this. so the list goes on and on. have the square that have the adjust the 5 voting for a candidate like that. oh mark you make it sound so one sided um no thanks for

having me. look, you've raised a bunch of different questions. let's deal with a move in a couple of them in turn. look at it, but let's deal with the personality 1st. there's a lot of folks who don't like them and style, i get it. i worked for them for 4 years. i understand why folks don't like a style, but for people who are more interested in substance over form, which is not your exact question, but we'll get to your question. the 2nd they like is policies they just do. they thought that the country was better off during the 1st term of the trouble ministration. unemployment was low, that was due inflation. we didn't have this current war, ukraine, etc. so for a lot of folks who don't follow it very closely, they're looking at it through their own perspective of their own household and saying, you know what, we were better off under donald trump. so i think he's doing well there. but i think you asked me a larger question, which is, why is a man with that track record still in the game? why is the, you know, a roughly 5050 chance to win the presidency during the election in the upcoming days? and the answer is you can poke a lot of holes and a lot of that for some people that satisfactory for other people,

it's clearly not in fact, for about half the country it is for half the country. it's not you yourself said that trump failed as a president on january 6th. you called and attempted to, you resign from the administration. then in 2023. he said he was willing at his base because of his co death and destruction stuff and having dinner with white supremacist you of course were referring to that more lago dinner you had with the holocaust and our nick of fuentes, i'm, i get saying some stuff happens in the past, but again, there's a character question here, and then there's the fact that he's cavorting with white supremacist and it least inciting, if not, being directly responsible for an attempt to co on the government. that seems to foreshadow more danger, more harm, more violence, more bad news for the country. do you mind what, what, what was my job as the chief of staff, the, i just press united states. my job was the only person in the building. they got paid to tell him the stuff that he didn't want to hear. i was suppose to be the one

to save us present. this was good today and this was bad today. by the way. i was really good at that job and i try to maintain that after i left the administration . so when he does stuff that i think is stupid, like having dinner with a white supremacist. i have not hesitated at all to call that out. if he does something i think is good. i'll say to just something i think it's bad to say a lot of times people on the trunk team will only focus on this stuff. but i said it's nice and people in the harris team only focus on the stuff i say if it's negative, but i try to shoot it down the middle. your character question is a good one. and yes, character is an issue, i think is gonna pick some excellent people. i was worried about that at the beginning. mark back up a year half ago i was worried about who might go work for you. but now and talking to folks who are interested in the cabinet positions, there's some really good names you might recognize of that by pompei and we'll go back. yeah, and i feel like robert o'brien would go back in stephen medation is talked about going back in the robert light. how's your are traded represent a go back to your character question for just a 2nd. look, it's important to me. it's one of these. i quit my job on january 6, he didn't live up to my expectations as a boss. my expectations for the boss,

because i mean back it sounded like, oh, i mean the boss is what i mean, an attempt on the whole, those beyond not meet my expectations as a boss. no, no, stop. no, no. it's not that they're not, you know, you're putting words in my mouth. i never said i quit because we attempted to, i quit because he failed to live up to my expectations as the president. and he was my boss on that particular day. and as you know, some time when we were the person who was expectation, my expectation was that he respond much quicker. they did not take my phone calls during the day. i was trying to encourage him to go on television to tell people to go home. i felt like you had the ability to send those people home and i think that he acted too slowly. this is something that's, that's unique to me as an employee. if you do is, if your boss does something of work that you don't like, you could either be quiet and have people assume that you was sent and, and agree with what that person is doing. or you can try to change things and failing those 2 things you can quit, which is what i did make if, if, if donald trump, uh lose is uh and there is another attempted code to use your language. but do

you have any reason to believe, do i have any, should i have any reason to believe that donald trump will act any more responsibly or do anything to prevent it from happening? yeah, it's, you know, it's, i, i, i get asked a lot about what, what, what, what the days after the election will hold. and i will admit to the same lack of visibility mark that i had in 2000. and 20 of you had asked me in 2020, if there would be an armed uprising to try and prevent the certification of the election. the president said, no, it's not possible in this country. and certainly the thing of my double checked was called immigrants and rapists. he has said that migrants have quote, bad genes. he called vice president complet harris lazy as hell. even question. her identity as a black woman back in july saying, i didn't know she was black until a number of years ago when she happened to turn black. are you ok with a presidential candidate that uses that sort of rhetoric? in my ok when it, when i use it, no, i wasn't. i was elected office for me. i don't know, 10 or 12 years. i would have been killed if i use language like that. and rightly

so, donald trump has managed to get away with stuff in terms of his style that would, would ends the career of any other politician. that being said, look, the donald trump is not the only person in this country who talks like this. there's a reason he's doing better with a lower educated white man is reading the doing better with manufacturing workers. there's this reason he's doing better with a blue collar, folks in this country because he talks a lot like they do sometimes. are you telling me that donald trump is the only person who's ever were yet like that? what you're, what you're inputting the wrong question. you're saying what, what happened? you're saying other people wouldn't do the same thing. other people wouldn't use that language. other people have use that language, i'm addressing the should question, shouldn't we be? i think somebody who's the so we shouldn't be liking donald trump. no, it shouldn't. should somebody be using that not why and through the we agree with no one should use it. but what you're saying is he's that the only person says, right, this stuff, he's the only one running for president, or come come back to the to the issue, right. which is okay. you've got

a guy who says a come all harris. i didn't know she was black. okay. i thought you by the way, i think it's come. it was, i thought she was asian because she used to run as the 1st asian center or whatever the deal was i can't remember the exact context. is that disqualify is, does that mean? okay, you know what? i don't like that so much that i'm going to vote for the other person who wants to raise my taxes and open my borders and all the things that were afraid, the democrats are going to do what i get. the fact that he's a florid candidate, most people don't know about why the, you know, somebody was black, but how about the bad genes for migrant and the immigrants being rapist, those up top to all right, sir. i have never liked that language. i've been like a part would you call it? i just ask you, what is the coming of? i don't think it, listen. if i thought them it was racist i would work for him. i've worked with met with men and women out of the minority community who would door working for donald trump. we are more than a year into israel's genocide in guys the during this time we've seen some of the biggest student protests on college campuses in decades. this will be at the top of the agenda for whoever becomes president trump has made one of his 20 core campaign

promises to the port, quote pro, a mass, radicals and make college campuses quote patriotic again. what does that even mean? what it means to make college campuses patriotic. i disagree with the by the way, just for the sake of the discussion, disagree with your, your, uh, your description. what's happening is a genocide we can talk about that is probably a longer conversation for another david is a word you used, i don't use the word. i don't agree with that. i think that a lot of people are upset with what's happening on college campuses. the anti american attitude that's taking place on college campuses now. and i think he's tapped into something that, by the way, he's not the only one. my guess is the majority of americans don't like to see. it may be a narrow majority, but i think the majority of americans would probably side with these real on this as a defensive reaction to what happened on october 7th. it's a visit issue that the cuts america nearly down the middle between being pro palestinian pros. really i get that for sake of this discussion of but i don't think donald trump is out of line saying look,

i think that we shouldn't be allowed to have free speech on the, on the, on college campuses. but we shouldn't have anti semitism. you've seen some of the same videos i have of the way to do some jewish, stupid. i've been treated on american college campuses and that's not one use. that's not what donald trump we don't have. and guess what i'm saying? i'll quote a quote for you with donald trump says i don't think is there's no but what i'm saying is you're misrepresenting what he said. he's not saying just get rid of anti semitism. we all agree get rid of anti semitism. he hasn't what someone with radical politics to be on campus if he's gonna get rid of them too. but let me ask you about something else. that was also said during his presidential debate with joe biden last july, that the united states should let is real go and uh, quote, finish the job. what do you mean by that? have no idea. i'm not asking my, my, my guess is it probably do whatever they think is necessary to ensure their, their safety. i don't find that particularly offensive. i've, i've, i've surprised anybody else does. if you really believe that you weren't an extra special threat, did you believe as a nation, as a family, as a, as a business, whatever that there was a, an extra essential threat that someone wanted to kill you?

what would the limitation be of what we would do to prevent that from happening? international law? oh, well no, no, no, no, no, no i, i really wish that you were no, no, no mark i have i haven't interrupt you all day. you're questioning israel's right to exist, and that's wrong. what do you mean? you're saying that if, if someone really wants to exterminate israel, that could be international law that would allow them to do that. and i absolutely, that's, i think that's why it was representation of what is that your question to me was if someone poses a threat to you, what would be the limitations of what you would do? and i would say the next step and actually the and my argument, the more my response rather was international law. meaning that i would have a right to defend myself. but within the balance of the law, i. e, i can't indiscriminately kill civilians. i can't use disproportionate force, i can't bomb hospitals. those are the, just as examples. those are things that know, but engineers are prevent us from doing even in the defense of ones. so, and now you somehow turn that in to be thing is the right to just have the right i

do, i have the right to bomb hospitals if it's being used as a military facility under international law. i do, in fact the people using a hospital as a military facility, as a shield or committee violations of international law themselves. the evidence shows that it's not the case, but beyond that, i guess the point here is the rest of the world. much of the worst calling for a cease fire there calling for peace. and donald trump, this thing is you're going there and finish the job. this is in the context of talking about the death of tens of thousands. now over 40000 officially and probably many more people dead and die, but most of whom are not members of some of how may i ask most of whom are not caring weapons mark, i don't i know this is you asking me questions. let me ask you a question, do you think you'd be different or harrison ministration? no. a double sky. what do i think the incredibly terrible set of decisions biden is leaving this administration? and how is the bread? i'm not going to do much different, but what, what just need to paris is bed. that we talked about that on this very shows. just

because ours is bad doesn't mean something gets a pass, it's something has to be subjected to the same scrutiny. i, i think that's probably fair, i'm not familiar with the other work you've done at the station regarding the harris poll up policies. but i guess my point is this is that both parties in this country seem to be pretty much on the same place in defending what israel is doing . nickel viney. thank you so much for joining us on upfront. i got the chat again. thanks very much. with the elections in the united states around the corner, many motors on the left are grappling with a familiar debate volt strategically or vote with their conscience even if it risk splitting the progressive vote as washington continues to arm. israel admitted to genocide and gaza. an assault on 11 on many say they won't vote for us, vice president cumberland harris, and call to vote for a 3rd party other se risking a 2nd. trump presidency could cause irreparable harm domestically and would do nothing to reign in israel's genocidal campaign. so which way will progresses vote

in the selection and couldn't determine the outcome of the race? joining me to discuss this is brianna, joy, gray, political commentator, hosted the bad faith podcast and former national press secretary for the bernie sanders, 2020 presidential campaign, and danielle moody host of the danielle moody show on youtube, also co host of the new abnormal podcast. so good to see both of you. thanks. brad . yeah, round we'll start with you. sure you've been in favor of supporting 3rd party is a way of challenging the 2 party system. and you believe if i'm understanding correctly, that progresses to just the band and the democratic party? yeah, i think that this election in particular hasn't really revealed why that's necessary . often times progresses are told that the reason why the democratic party not embrace a particular policy priority is because it's simply not popular and that there's a trade off between democrats winning elections and getting the bose that are necessary to win elections in pursuing some progressive priority which is framed by

the democrats as to as a tear to actually when, if it's on the ballot, i think that's off and not the case. but with respect to gaza, polls are really, really clear about comma harris would benefit enormously from supporting arms and vargo against israel, particularly in the states. but you've really needs to when i'm talking. 30 plus percent of voters in georgia are saying that they would be more likely to vote for commer harris if she were to support in arms and cargo versus single digit numbers would say they'd be less likely to vote for her. so i think the question you will have to ask themselves is why is the democratic party more invested in sending arms to israel? as it commits a plausible genocide than they are in winning an election to defeat fascism if the sticks are really about high, why are they preferring to prioritize the agenda of another country? that's breaking international law over the will of her own electorate that they know you have a different take on this. you are supporting vice president harris has run for office, but you support democrats has some time despite having certain i would say significant

disagreements with the party. why is voting democrat, a better option? in light of that, we're facing an ex essential threat right now in donald trump and the model republican party. there, there is. to me, there is no alternative place that would be viable to put my vote other than with the democratic party right now. there is no better way currently to help the people of gaza as well as to help the people in this country without voting for vice president cala harris. i mean, what donald trump and the model republicans have laid out just in project 2025 for black people, for people of color for women, for queer people in this country is like nothing that we've ever seen as in america . and they are ready on day one. so i can't think to myself, well, let me consider either withholding my vote or voting for a 3rd party that would almost certainly confirm donald trump into a 2nd term that by the way, he may never leave. right,

because he has said that that he wants to be a dictator on day one that he will protect just recently all protect women, whether they want it or not. right? so they are laying out for us what their plans look like. and if we decide to divide our vote, then to me that is a vote for donald trump. and i can't just sit by and watch our democracy fall completely into the hands of donald trump in the model. republicans, because i have and i believe in the disagreements and i understand where they are coming from. but the stakes are just too high to write it on a 3rd party right now that we know it's not viable really what you say. and i would argue that every 4 years were told we have the most important election of our lifetime. the most x, a central threat we've ever had to our democracy is precisely because we don't get account her balance from the democratic party in the form of any accountability for the democratic party. this is where the lesser of 2 evils and bring through this is we're both blue no matter who i will vote for democrats no matter what,

because they're better than the republicans bring you. at what point are the democrats aren't going to be pushed to the left, or frankly, the majority of the electorate is on issues like a living wage, medicare for all, i'm not having this a military that constantly funds interventions all over the world, including obviously in gaza, if you vote for them, no matter what they do, no matter how often they campaign with dick cheney and bro progresses interface under the bus. at what point are we going to stop letting democrats convince us that they have to literally become republicans in order to beat republicans that are worst and the republicans before and at what point are we going to invest in building a new party system that actually is accountable to the will of the people. so there's an interesting take from many people on the left, including political activist angela davis, who obviously has been a longstanding opponent and critic of these really occupation. and now genocide who argue that this is not about an individual of articulation about virtues

or i values are principles per say, it's a strategy, it's always a tactic. it's always a strategy. and she's saying this is about choosing your opponent, you know, you'd rather choose your opponent. you rather pick the person who you can have the most space to operate with. when you say that, well, for one, i would resist the framing that it's just a symbolic vote. i think that voting green is a strategic boat for one. if you run it deeply, blue or deeply red, state voting for one of the 2 corporate parties is quite literally throwing your boat away. instead voting for 3rd party like the green party, enables them to get to 5 percent of the vote. it enables them to have access to federal funds, enables them to run more candidates and have a more serious campaign if they could just get 5 percent of the vote in, in various states. second of all, to the core of your point, i think that the nature of the gravity of the genocide and the response that we're seeing from the democratic party speaks volumes. people are arguing,

particularly to muslim an air of americans across the country who are so disgusted by the enormous death toll and humanitarian crisis that we've seen over the past year. but trump is going to be worse in the face of a democratic party by his senior, literally, principally under written all of the horrors that we've seen coming out of god. so it is really rich to try to fear longer about fascism coming from the other side. of the aisle when joe biden and conway harris as administration is administration responsible for funding this genocide and without which this genocide could not have taken place. so something to that point. i mean guys, it is, is a tough argument. me to hang your head on. if you're a democrat, but that seems to be with many supporters of criminal harris and certainly argued right. if you think guys is bad, now me wait until you know, trump gets back in here. what, what do you make of that? here is the reality. we know that donald trump, his son in law jerry questionnaire,

want to bulldoze what is left of gaza. we know that jared questionnaire sees gaza as nothing more than beach front property that he would like to capitalize on. do i agree with what the harris invite in team have done over the last the year? plus i absolutely do not think that it is atrocious. and i wish that they would stop sending funds to israel. i wish that they would have an actively work for a c spar. i wish that netanyahu hadn't been playing 3 dimensional chats while apparently they were playing checkers like. i wish that that had not been the case . the reality here though is that we are between a rock and a very, very hard place, and i can't again, i can't say that finding a now in this moment when america we have already lost robi wade, we have already lost the formative action. we've already lost voting rights. we're seeing gerrymandering beyond things that we had ever seen before. we have the

supreme court been just said to virginia, go ahead with the 1600 votes, keep throwing them in the trash and that's totally okay. i cannot see, not to putting on putting a vote that could absolutely put donald trump over the top or staying home on just the one issue isn't just about one issue. it is about a multitude of issues that are affecting every aspect of our, of the interesting aspect that i'd love to pick up on that democrats make choices. and if you want to cynically read into it, there's an argument that says they love to be able to dangle a can a carrots, beset specifically in the room in the, in the framework of the supreme court. in order to induce people to go to the polls, even though they're desperately unhappy or financially, and ms. read it and things get worse with them every year. and this was an important point park that i really want to get across if, if we had started mobilizing back in 2004 and alternative party instead of demonizing, someone like ralph nader whose fault it wasn't that the election was lost stolen by

the way. mm. hm, and then maybe we wouldn't be in a place now where we feel like we're between those rock and hard place. maybe we would have a genuine robust 3rd party option to invest in. but they haven't done that in the past, and we need to start doing it now. and the reason is because these 2 corporate parties will never deliver. the democratic party is one when of this to in corporate bird. and it's, it's job is to create the veneer that someone in office was working for you, but the system is actually working. and if you just keep voting and get enough progresses into office, magically something's going to happen. but guess what? nancy pelosi was once a, a see the party change of you. you don't change the party in the were really important structural financial reasons why that's the case then you know, isn't it? and i'll give you less work on on this if i think you would agree that at some point with the break, the 2 party system. yes. and i think you would agree that the republican candidate keeps getting worse. uh huh. so then if the cam it keeps getting worse, but the system needs to get broken. when do we do it? us?

and i think that and unfortunately this is the, this is the place that we find ourselves one. i don't think that we have a 2 party system right now. i think that the republican party has abdicated their responsibility to the constitution and, and to the united states. 9 years ago when they elected donald trump. and i can tell you that like, as a, as a, as a queer black woman in the, in the, in america like, i can't imagine, not having had a supreme court not having had, you know, passed marriage equality not having been identified as like as full human being inside of this country and so when we look at the way that things have devolved so quickly over 9 years. yes. at some point do i think that we need a multi party system? absolutely. but have things gotten to such an ex essential place that now do i think now is the time for that? i really don't because i would like to never order donald trump's name again. i would like mother to go the way into the wind. well,

that has to be the last word i want thing bullied being here. we have to do a great danielle moody. thanks. john. got upfront everybody. that is our show upfront. we'll be back the in an already follow tom. well, sign. the escalation of the president by then i working to end this war. i did encourage him to get this over with as, as to get over with fast, with many desperate for a change. it is absolutely essential to avoid than all 2011. what is the world to expect to each other in the world? we are, we have to be brave, otherwise we're not going to have a country left. how will the choice of one nation affect the cost of the us? 2024 on out to 0. 5 of sizes expect

this will be we have only 10 minutes to take our belongings and leave the office so they can shut it down for the victory for the government. get this one of those containing refugees coming the actions of israel's government, the military to take it as been described as the closing of the landmark case has been sent someplace around the world. it's enormous to this phenomena. it's historical and state the weights of the potential penalized climate impacts is the re awakening pool for the government. this is really something does can make a turning point. arthritis meets the citizens using the bowl to hold governments and corporations to account if they don't want to do it. by asking, then let's go to the court. the case for the client on it just

the challenges with the all the and as president, i will do everything in my power to end the war in gaza. yes, presidential candidate campbell resumes a last ditch appeals of votes in michigan. home to one of the biggest out of american communities, the real about this and this is all 0 life from don't have also coming up.