the the . ringback the what should african leaders expect from donald trump? does he makes his come back? the continent hasn't been a top diplomatic priority for washington, but his china and russia expand their influence. there will trump for versus print . this is inside store the hello and welcome to the program. i'm how much enjoying the united states has lost

some of its influence in africa and recent years. now donald trump's re election is raising questions about how his administration will deal with the worlds fastest growing content, the list of issues as long. there's trade investment, age sanctions, and war. all of this has china and russia make significant strides across africa, beijing, as board billions of dollars in strategic investments and moscow as build alliances to counter sanctions from the west. so what will the 2nd trump term mean for africa? and how will his transactional approach play out with african leaders? will put those questions to our guessing enrollment the 1st this report from katya lopez. what are you donald trump, america 1st motto has some wondering where africa will fit in his political agenda as president. he often followed a transactional approach, one of dressing, african leaders, emphasizing trade and investment. we hope to extend our economic partnerships with countries who are committed to self reliance and to fostering opportunities for job

creation in both africa and the united states. africa has tremendous business potential have so many friends going to your country is trying to get rich . trump considers china one of his biggest adversaries. and the jing has made significant strategic investments across the continent. at a recent meeting of african leaders, president teaching pain plus $50000000000.00 and financial support the next 3 years . as soon as long as you own the faith fung china is willing to keep in cooperation with africa in the areas of industry and agriculture. infrastructure trade and investments that includes minerals needed for renewable technologies. africa has about 30 percent of the world. critical minerals and china has steadily secured deals for the extraction. washington hasn't kept up

the face with sanctions from the us and its allies. russia has also built closer ties with some african countries, particularly in for the security and military partnerships. there is also worry, trump could cut down humanitarian aid presidential byte and has committed $55000000000.00 to the continent. and eastern african countries, including sudan faced with war and mass displacement are among its main recipients . now much of africa is waiting to see what a 2nd trump administration will mean for the continent. and at the same time, trying to prepare for the unexpected katia, look this up again. alj a 0 for insights story. all right, let's go ahead and bring our guests in durham, north carolina, cameron hudson senior fellow at the center for strategic and international studies . think tank and a former white house africa advisor during the bush administration and our research

engineer solomon there. so founding director of amani africa, a pan african think tank that works on p security and diplomacy. and in washington, dc, ebenezer of adar, a senior fellow at the council on foreign relations and author of numerous books on nigeria and africa. a warm welcome to you all and thanks so much for joining us today on inside story ebenezer. let me start with you today. what are african leaders expecting thus far from a 2nd? trump administration. thanks for the question. i think come quote, many african countries will, aspect president from to, for low on the track that president bided as adopted, especially after the what happened with respect to the, the ukraine, the, the, you kind of conflict. part of what happened after the conflict is that the united states or allies, that it's no longer business,

as usual with african countries. and the united states change fact is be more due frasier if not this respectful in its approach to us african countries. it's really allies to death advocate and quantities of needs that do that. the states that it's in the united states interest to meet in terms of economic interest in terms of protection of governance and democratic rights. and it seems as if the united states is sensitive to that if anything, maybe advertised states i'm, i'm, what i mean african lead us whispered to that the united states will continue along that path. cameron, let me get your take on this from your perspective when it comes to washington's approach to africa during a 2nd, trump term. what are we more likely to see, and what do we less likely to see? well, i think what you're more likely to see is president trump. uh saying the quiet part

out loud. i think that a lot of the interests and priorities that the united states has in africa are pretty bi partisan, critical minerals. we see the, the content as the largest building block at the us. and so if, if the united states wants to be seen as a world leader, it has to be able to line up african countries behind its vote at the united nations. it's a g o strategic location, increasingly with the red sea and the atlantic ocean being a border with the united states. so it sits across really critical trade routes. so, and then of course there's the rise of china. there's the threat that rush opposes, and african continues to be a battle ground for that competition. i think the difference will be that the by the administration down play many of the us national security interest. and i think that that trump will make it the headline hunt, trump will talk about our competition with china very directly,

very openly. he will talk about the need for critical meal minerals in a much more open and direct way. whereas i think biting tried to temper a lot of these interest, which talk of us values of values around democracy, human rights, gay rights. and i think that many times those talk that talk of values doesn't resonate particularly well with either the populations or the leadership of african countries. so i think there's potentially you know, room for, for the trump administration to advance an agenda with africa and not dissimilar to, to, to the what the buys ministration did. but i think the tone will be very different . solomon, what's your take here? which leaders thus far in africa are thinking and more optimistic terms about what to expect from trump going forward. which leaders are more down beat about a 2nd trump term. and how will trumps transactional approach play out with african leaders. so 1st i think in terms of expectations,

it's true that many african countries, particularly many african leaders, are wary, all being lectured about democracy about human rights. more so in the current, in the contemporary global context where there are many instances in which the book is a for respect for international law, for human rights. i have not been consistently followed in applied internationally in various parts of the world. and therefore, the expectation is that a more of a uh, a more autonomous way of going about, uh, engagement in relations between the 2 countries. including in terms of whether it is good to come in,

register or the jo portage. cuz dimensional of things such as of because positioning globally, there is increasing a collision on the part of the continent. that's a visa moment, actually offers more choices, more options for the compliment to not to be books that into taking sides solve expectation. is that even in the context in which of the incoming top i'd be sedation would be, for example, a open and public over about the start to do competition with china and russia on the african continent. i don't think that's been african leaders and indeed people in the content would like to see a situation where they would be asked to choose between the us and other countries. if anything, the expectation is that they, the room for compliment tati between china and the west uh for them to actually

advance relationship. so this also has to do with, i think increasingly, coordination on the bottom, the can leaders as well as the wider public about except the sizing agency that on the car is not just taking side either way. is this broke or dr. broke? not just like they, they, us of the kind of countries also would like to pursue their own interest. we'd sometimes coincide with the us outside of the times, coincides with other groups. ebenezer, you heard solomon and cameron both mentioned russia, russia and china, and how those 2 countries factor into all of this going forward. i want to ask you about your thoughts on how much will trumps rivalry with china. complicate things for africa going forward. we know that china has invested deeply in the consummate there's a lot of analysts that expect trump to pressure african nations to distance themselves from badging. and that my creat difficult choices for countries that are reliant on

chinese infrastructure, funding and trade. how does all of this play out? do you think? i think it is too late now to expect so much for time. countries know to continue to do business with china. i think they know they will continue to do that. i feel has been made of dental continue to do business with our osha. i see these data rights, the previous paid commission on the one you put down to what that what these agency . it's a one was that think is going to be very important going forward. i forgot this is a good in error 5 countries. right? it's, it's the, i don't realize in that it won't let me know if there might economically weak. it doesn't mean that they do not have agency, the dentist, if you look at what might be a broken off. i certainly do all those confidence in the style i've done, basically the give you an eviction notice to the united states to the 5. do you want those to leave to, to, to have a quick minute to basis from del punches for me is an indication of the fact that

they are that license idea of the agency. but is that same agency also asked implications is so far as annual for many of these countries decide to go with china or russia, i think is good to being put down to what allies that russia on china. also, i've been placed in africa the i know just in africa because the southern defending know who with african countries then africa because they mean dismissed the one to business done. but also more important. they represent a particular will for life politically speaking. so any country that goes with china or russia has to know those coordinates in itself. so it sets of times loose um, personally, and it was be willing to live with those rules up to support going forward. cameron up aging has made significant investments and strategic investments across the continent. and at a recent meeting of african leaders, presidents,

asian ping pledged $50000000000.00 and financial support over the next 3 years. can the us really hope to do anything to keep up with china? after having basically fallen so far behind as well, it's going to be a very difficult uh, catch up process for the united states. i think that this will be to accord or that we have been promoting from the d. r. c. railroad from the d r. c. to to angola is really the 1st foray into large infrastructure development along the lines of the built and wrote initiative that has made china so successful. that's the 1st attempt by the united states and many, many years to undertake a project of that, of that nature. i think there's a real possibility to see a trump immunization scale, those kinds of projects in pursuit much more projects, essentially competing with china on the same terms as china, in africa. but here again,

i think it's going to be quite different. i think the us marketplace, wall street and even average americans see the consummate as a much more riskier place for investment. when you look at kind of main stream media here, talking about apricots, it's typically about what's not working right. it's about governance issues. it's about disease, it's about, you know, civil more the like, that's what captures the attention of, of the us the lead. so i think with respect to africa and like in china, which i think sees africa as a land of opportunity as a, as a land to get rich. we will see you, president trump, with his, you know, business man, background and bravado can, can motivate the us business community to see the opportunities that others clearly see in africa. and it's not just china, it's the united arab emirates, and saudi arabia. it's turkey, you know, there are many great and middle powers out there now who are competing. uh,

you know, aggressively for, for investment opportunities in africa. so washington has lost out to a host of uh, a small towers and large cameras. like solomon, i saw you reacting to some of what cameron was saying. there are let you jump in, but i also, i want to ask you about another country. you mentioned a few moments ago, and that's russia because russia has also built closer ties with several african countries, particularly in foraging security and military partnerships. russia now has a major footprint and countries like molly new share and burkina faso. how much is that alarmed? the u. s n would trump offer support to african countries in an attempt to push russia out so um, in terms of the, the presence of russia and then and the implications that off. remember this countries not to mention the sentence, thailand, congress, booking a new teacher and, and body. uh they, uh, they have faced enormous challenge in terms of their security. that's right. the

data facing is basically how does become existential. we have talking about countries that today the other present at region in the world that has become the epicenter of global enters. nope, just did not pick up a torturing the word in terms of the number of attacks. the pilot is death redone from these incidents and in the face of such existential, besides the charlotte and for these countries has been uh to get the kind of security assistance in support. uh, either by lots or lead from countries like the us, the old medicine lots already such as the rule they called me to come to west african states or through that if he could even. yeah. and then on the support to make kind of items. uh, what are available, and then for what you have is basically countries that are left with no choice but

to seek assistance from anyone who is willing to give it and russia available. and therefore, they just took it that to the kind of environment that, that made it possible for russia to gain the kind of footprint ducky top gate. and they've been fort important in this context to think about when the countryside are faced with like the central freight. if you do not do it either us individually, at least it is possible to facilitate effective action 2 months left on platforms within that un. i think on union or, or equals, but importantly, i think it's important, it's very important to understand this thing. when we talk about african countries, i think it's important to talk about african countries in the way we talk about other countries including countries in the west, in the sense that often as you know, um mentioned the capital mentioned earlier was for example,

they imagined actually in the west doesn't mean managed to be one that own westport trace and imagines africa as you know through the land. so security came on and not in the dust. so uh, the creek. i mean that's so china. so what i should leave out or pull us a bit to imagine and think of africa outside of the v secondary lenses, but now pick up on an all seats. so, as i said, to be engaged for mutual exchange, cameron i saw, i think so the really critical reports. sure. so i'm going to get back to about one of those points just a minute. but i did see cameron reacting to a lot of what you said there, and i wanted to give him a chance to jump into it looked like you wanted to cameron, you know, i was just going to add about, about russia. if it's an open question, how bothered

a trump administration is going to be by the arrival of russia on the content we've obviously seen in other parts of the world and the trump administration. president trump, himself wanting to, to work with president putin wanting to find a way to accommodate russia's interest and concerns, not just in europe but, but in other places around the world. i also think he's going to have a kind of narrowly defined set of interest in africa, and i don't know that stability and security in molly or burkina faso is going to be on his list of priorities. he may well be very happy to see russia become mired in conflict in the central sally and states. he may also be, you know, very happy to let europe deal with its own immigration problem from the central sally in states and not saying that that's a concern that washington needs to inject itself into. so that actually might be a welcome change, you know,

for african countries who have seen washington inserting itself militarily and otherwise into, into problem cases on the content, but not being able to, to resolve them. so this could be a welcome change. ebenezer, you wrote a piece in august and which you said that african citizens are simultaneously distrustful and resentful, and their government. and you argued in the piece, the trust can be regained. and the one way would be through working towards changing the impression. the political offices exist only for the acquisition of personal wealth. do you believe that citizens of various african countries at this point, believe that their leaders would work potentially toward the school during a 2nd, trump presidency, working with somebody who is so transaction? and i hope they do, i don't think it's about, oh is in washington. see always in the white house. i tend to question here is i i'm coming back to the question of, of agency. i think this is about always in power in different countries. i think

mainly for con, i mean if you think about the close decide that took place i pro decide it might be in the j ebook, not facile in getting a different building. can it be so young people came out onto the street around with that kind of sales? no rush on flies the way into corporate. that's my argument. that's always been. it's not because the loved immediately is because the frustrated with politicians empower the fact that that's been indeed that shape change in the white house is no going to change that if it transaction of presidents can help stabilize african countries bring political accountability, especially among the needs emphasized questions of govern us on board the seat of deadly power. i don't think any african citizens are going to have any complex solomon. one of the things you mentioned a couple of minutes ago that i wanted to follow up with you about was humanitarian

aid. and also human rights. what would you expect from the incoming trump administration when it comes to those 2 issues? because especially when it comes to human rights. and his 1st term trumps approach to human rights in africa was characterized by very much of lack of engagement on that issue of how much that might that impact the content going forward on that. and also when it comes to mandatory and 8 i think look, uh when it comes to your mindset and aid as well as a human rights with respect for humanitarian aid, that us has been a major architect on the african concept. so they expect they should need that, that would continue during that time, but ministration. when people have question is how the 2 months of an aide would be used. would it be in a storm implies you mentioned for function on ends and therefore uh it wouldn't be used as has been used previously. or basically

the previous way of providing do you mind color assistance for people? what really in need of assistance would continue from the side of the us not be is really the critical question on the question of human rights. i think be a perhaps. i don't think that that would be a lot of expectations. in any case, during the cut and by doing a dissertation that has been too much expectation, but not as much daily, very on live areas as well. um and the in terms of priority kaz good. if you think about it, web developer, you can see it in the uh, forwarding policy priority of the kind of documentation of president biden on the incoming administration of uh, president trump. if you look at that from the perspective of the resources that that are located, the staff that are committed to african finds,

you would clearly see that that a norm is difference between the us as our pension. so i'll pick up a ticket or 2 decades ago, and they use this attention during the kind of thought to be additional done by that. i really don't see how that would improve during the president tons administration. and then wouldn't be step 10 things on which president time may be as coming to mention very active and you know, uh uh for, for word uh, engaging and those would be really on mothers that may be considered to be of interest to the us. it just keeps coming runs um the and, and those uh, economic related issues. but on the aspects of job, uh, you know, advancement of human rights. i think for many enough because there is a growing good condition that this is a monster that com becomes nipped. we increasingly see add their own bath and,

and just try them that they need to engage here. and i think it's important to recognize that for some leaders on the continent, this would be auto parts unity that they see. oh gosh. okay. with with them we can do business, he's transaction, and therefore he wouldn't be bull that he wouldn't bull that us. we still meet with the wish to me, any requirements about human and demo, cuz you can imagine that those, those, those leaders would of this point in time, be very happy not, you know, do that. they don't have, you know, a quarter from the us telling them about this or that's accumulation camera. we don't have a whole lot of time left. but i do want to dedicate a couple of minutes to a sudan. there are calls for washington to start playing a bigger role in trying to stop the conflict there. how likely is that? as well as so i think there's an opportunity. i think there's an opening uh, probably not so much with the end of the by the administration. i think that

binding has too much of a mixed record on sudan right now. he has a special envoy who seems disconnected from the leadership here who is running around the region with a lot of energy. but it's not really been able to get the parties to sit down clearly the parties to the conflict are not interested in a dialogue at this point, or talk of a cease fire. and i think that trump administration and elizabeth campaigned in the united states on ending wars, and it doesn't have to just be the war and ukraine or the war and in gaza that he, that, that the trumpet ministration ends. uh, there's a real opportunity. i think that the end of this war, it might not look like how the bind administration would do it. i suspect that a trump team will turn to the region and ask egypt, saudi arabia, u e to say, you know, you are the region, you have an interest, a greater interest in this region than we do. but this war is bad for business, right? it is shut down 50 percent of the global commodity trade through the red sea,

and it is costing the african continent massively in terms of last g, d, p. so this war is bad for business. it doesn't make sense. you need to figure out a way forward, i don't think a trump team will be particularly invested in what kind of government emerges in sudan coming out of this, which has been, i think, the sticking point for the by did ministration, demanding democratic civilian rule in the country i think that a trump team is going to be probably more pragmatic looking more and enter the war and an ability to reach the $25000000.00 plus people in meetings to dance and then figure out later on what a success or government really looks like all right, we've run out of time, so we're going to have to leave the conversation there. thanks so much to all of our guest, cameron hudson, solomon, they're so and ebenezer, obadiah, ari, and thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting

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