set out is there is most i last available in your favorites apps to just set for it and type download the new app from out to 0 new at you think is it the israel and its biggest all either united states, again, isolated fuel or as via talking to the international criminal court decision to issue arrest warrants, but benjamin netanyahu on your go on, most european nations say about execute the warrants is either mine steps on that sort. so what might happen next base is inside the to hello and welcome to the program and the and it's from statesman to warranty. on

it a day. the latest in the career of israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu bare arrest warrants for him on his form of defense minister, you'll have kalonde historic that are accused of crimes against humanity in israel's will. on gauze, 44000 palestinians in gauze have been killed. most of them women and children, that price is largely ignored and israel installed contrast to the fuel res, reaction which is erupt to the since the warrants were issued in the us as well as the biggest weapon supply and allied politicians have found re unity to expressing fury and threatening the court with sanctions. so how damaging is vista? israel added, standing in the world? what might it means as well as allies and supplies? and is the rule of international law on trial to will speak to august shortly. but 1st, this report from lower con, a ruling by the international criminal quotes on the se has made is ready prime

minister benjamin netanyahu and his phone with defense minister, you of color, and wanted men by issuing arrest warrants. the to is ray, the politicians on charges of commission will crimes. the i, c. c has polarized the world this being a predictably furious response from israel and its greatest ally the us. it is falsely accusing me the democratically elected prime minister of the state of israel, and israel's former defense minister, your color of deliberately targeting civilians. this when we do everything in our power to avoid civilian casualties for us president's job item quoted, outrageous, and some sense of said they would look into sanctioning the quote. the u. s. has committed a record amounts of military a to israel since october, the 7th 2023. we remain deeply concerned by the prosecutors rush to seek arrest warrants and the troubling process errors that lead to this decision. however,

most of your and the rest of the world, say zale, uphold the court decision, and a rest, nothing yahoo or kalonde, if they travel to that territory done. this decision is a binding decision on all state which includes on members of the union. on binding. this lemon discard this is some of as well the strongest allies are in europe, meaning this division there to hungry. it's right. when prime minister victor old on says he will defy the warrants by inviting next in yahoo to visit a specs person for bridge prime minister care still, i'm a said person would respect the jurisdiction of the i. c. c. one human rights lawyer says the day of reckoning for israel fleet is, was bound to come israel as

a state over the last 75 years as a node, the rule of low. that's what it's really about. not about adjustable, it's about it. and i'm just state, this is never respected. the rule of law. while lawyers and politicians argue life to people, and garza remains a daily struggle for survival. as israel's relentless on thoughts continues. this is suffice to daily bombardments. they still are facing a disease. many living just on the sheets of plastic or flimsy tents, and so they are the hope on find one single cell or the least lead is about the low underneath the national level. this is a rogue nation. and the roots of the international court unlocked, implemented for some of the cases, a test of international legal mechanisms. the us does not recognize the i c. c, but have nonetheless in t z. a sickly supported cases against dispos,

including rushes. president. lucky be a person. in this case, the ability of the court to dispense even have justice is also on trial. laura, come to inside story out to 0. the ok, let's bring in a guess in june is francesca albanese, the you in special rapids tool, only occupied palestinian territories and tele, you've already. goldberg is a political commentator, and for my academic, specializing in middle east studies, and in san francisco, we have professor steven soonest. he's a professor of politics at the university of san francisco. a warm welcome to you will. i want to start with talking about the situation in gaza and i'll ask you. busy francesca, because the palestinians will come to the policy engine. garza is the most important thing and all of this will this change how israel prosecute it's war and gaza at the moment? the rest of these warrants?

i wish to see clearly. and in fact, looking at what has happened in the last 24 hours, i don't think between in the short term. but we know that the life of the body students in gaza is facing an essential search because of the conduct. the extended is because of the analysis, the goal. so all the, all these row. and therefore the only thing we can do is to make searchable possible pressure. no time need to have the general side of conduct a disadvantage and forcing salt. how did, but also advance of justice because of justice is and that seems to be the looking at the response to that is given by many repeated states to start with. is if possible, if there is enough pressure whenever long denied is changing, but it is to change fast in order to protect honesty as life or a. do you think it's going to make much difference to pass policies and goals in

the moment? you know, i'm afraid i agree with this openness and regarding what you said in your opening remarks about how what's happening to palestinians in guys is the most important thing as far as is always concerned with talking about standards in gaza is the least important thing is all has absolutely no concern and no value for the past and in bloodshed and for the daily travails of living as a postilion and does uh, is there a is engaged in doing what it wants to do it as john complete and utter disregard. and in fact, is all has all of its eggs in one basket that bounced, it is denying, rejecting the court's decision, rejecting international law standing alone making it's well deserved. drugs status into a kind of a badge of pride as i can back away from this course, adoption is the only one that has steam to these arrest warrants, increase the pressure on israel and the us on how the war in gauze,

or is being conducted the certainly increases the pressure, but unfortunately share the skepticism of the other guess in terms of whether or have any kind of the immediate impact of but any advances international law and human rights that we've seen over the decades. and indeed, this entries has been a gradual process, and i certainly see the indictments as a step in the right direction, even though unfortunately the palestinians will not be feeling the impacting time. soon. francesca is st. just benjamin netanyahu and you'll have deland to shoulder the blame for how this war is being prosecuted. absolutely not. but they are the main responsible and the main faces of the car into atrocities. let me say i be not disgruntled with the overall process of this investigation from the very beginning because of the disconcerting commission. so 1st of all, there is to see york's over 7 context establishment doctor caught on these the most

artists in detention, which has resulted in international crowds including arbitrator, operational delivered on a mass scale. but also that are even in the, in the r as where it says, as it has to be an issue i hear critique. so saying, and how come with that extermination has been mixed? well, i think that we, 1st of all, we cannot lose momentum. this is an incredible step forward and we need to be don't need that bush for further justice goes against a gun on any car. now again and the charge, i would like to saying that the charge of extermination in my assessment has not been taken off by the court. the because not enough evidence was provided for the time. i'll start a patient, as i mentioned before, for you, if they should have been further investigation and evidence provided by the office of the prosecutor. concerning extermination to bones and artillery fire. and it's not the fire so, but the process is ongoing, so it was calm and now the to come. i hope that the investigation wouldn't be

broken, either alleged dreaming of any sort of especially the architects of the i'm exemption and the taking off the land that the spot, the law i law for a lot of people could buy. but also, you know, it's the overall archive system in both by yourself at the meetings, conditions of life and being able that is to be interrogated. yeah. so all right, yeah. does responsibility for this more like just in the hands of, of netanyahu all go on to all the others or is that or other questions to post these rarely societies a whole it most certainly doesn't start or end with, with a new or guidelines. there are many in his own who would like this to be seen as a wrong doing. i'm a part of and it's a now the only protest movement is at the moment, there's one that focuses on it and the island is personal. wrong doings is always society. as a whole should be at the very least ask questions. it's not put on trial. the

a tremendous effect isn't it says this genocide. uh, the, the unprecedented uh, um, facility with which it has been carried out has to do with this structure of a system that has so deeply internalize the do you mind ization that has been characteristic of his early policy. these are the bostonians pretty much since is roles inception that there's, there's absolutely no need for a detailed organized plan to carry out. a clearly defined goals. all that needed to be done was to unleashes rose military is always for us with the aid of the united states and other members of the international community on doza and leave it completely on, repressed because that i think is the true evil of this. the is early genocide is the impunity that is what has enjoyed since it has existed. and that infinity is

what needs to be under question that infinity needs to go on trial. that is most certainly not limited to me. that's in the, on the steven us present. joe biden said the, tracing how much israel is the same as equivalent to how much is it is outrageous, showed his range easily is rails, lead us be treated differently from how must be viewed differently? actually the what i was invited and said is on through the israeli is the leaders and the i'm oscillator. and had they survived the 2 other from us leaders that were, are going to dentists investigations have a, are being prosecuted for distinct and separate crimes. so it's not the same, in fact the, some us leaders, we're, we're a charge with more serious crimes overall. so this idea that there's some kind of bias against israel really is ground us and, and indeed we look, look at the fact that there have been 67 of people indicted by the international criminal court since its founding in 1999. this is the very 1st time that any is

really, is had been in dire 1st time. any jews have been indicted 1st time any of body from a pro western government has been indicted. so this idea, there's somehow a bias in the i c. c, that led to these indictments of use really officials is completely grounds. francesca. these ran the government, have done anything to avoid these warrens being issued. remember they were born repeatedly of and not letting out and enough aid they, they knew these were coming. could they could they have stopped it? absolutely. these could have stopped on the 9th of october. this should have never started in the 1st place, and they've been given warning dr. words, they should have stopped in october. we looked over when i searched the un special offer doors war and started warning of duties concern assigned to the seat of the risk of genocide. and after 2 weeks concluded that the genocide was ongoing when

the sounds top and got to see through the proceedings again. a d i, c, j 4 is rest, but each of the genocide convention, wendy, i c j each should the 1st year and i see this all provision managers in january and then the 2nd in march. and then the 30 may stick with that stopped when the ice to start the one security council and capacity solution or during the ceasefire. industrial dino. and this is why i, i just, i finally to really pulling the kind of this event so that the ease today let these ease of posey denouncing the i. c. c's work the races trial because it's exactly the overall and see that function deeply flawed comparison. should open the entire jewish population around the world because we shall not forget to detract was what's wrong. we've been wrongfully accused of treason. why did the timing out? probably told the world that he will raise garza and he actually has done it in

front of the entire world. the solar eclipse, if we need to do is not only baseless, but also a disgraceful refusal is 3 to deflect the community board of trustees. and francesca israel is israel is going to try to argue that it had a, a, has a rope boss, to judiciary that could rigorously pro misconduct. why didn't the i c, c go for that argument? this is such an important point. this is why my last city for to genocide a score don't you to read your i said we need to look at the kind of your conduct in crime in the time that you do want to buy the land against it to kind of deal defining students and look not just individuals, but the speed east row has a separate clean level system. we can go on into parliament to introduce treated separated functions that should work as a check and balance in such a system. genocide would never occur to because inside to make to genocide was already found by the i c. j in january 2024 and he's supposed to be sure he was off

to investigate and prosecuting sites meant to genocide. what that meant to be trained. donald, nothing other than contributing to create to be in a neighboring condition for the genocide to, to continue on are eva. seems to have been read unit say across the political spectrum. and israel are, is riley's rallying around the flag, or are they gonna back the potential, the netanyahu and go out and face arrest of the unity you describe is really not that rare. while is all appears to be undergoing sincere domestic, political disputes. that may be the case on various, some very specific issues. but when it comes to the genocide when it comes to understanding as policy, there is a very broad and very deep consensus. that is a could not have done other israel's actions in gaza and, and 11 are justified not necessarily because of support for

a settler agenda is x ation. but simply because after october 7th, most is or at least and again, the great majority of this, there is a sweeping consensus firmly believes that there is no quote in both solution to israel's quote unquote security problem that does not include effectively removing the guy's a strength and its inhabitants from the is rarely a frame, is here, that doesn't necessarily mean kill. i mean, ask is early, this is a, is, it wants to kill civilians. they'll say, just like our prime minister, of course not. but if we have to kill civilians to accomplish this target, and this target again, remember, is not the destruction of from us. this target is getting full exclusive permission to do whatever we want. whenever we want. the 2nd we decided we have. ready bravo is on the way we need to kill civilians as collateral damage. well then we need to kill as many as have to be killed. we don't want to do it, but we have no other way. there's no real dispute here in that sense, all is,

or at least subordinate, that was false. and so there's no threats to benjamin netanyahu. his job is as prime minister many times been written off, many times the survived, it will survive this. oh, definitely. i think it's enough to look at these would be competitors. none of them has offered an alternative to nothing else. policies, none of them is called for an end to the war. none of them had suggested that the war has had adverse effects on israel. all of them stand firmly behind us and you know, in saying no other until with no other alternative than what his role is actually doing. okay, stephen, what about the reputation of these riley styles itself is the only liberal democracy in the middle east. most of its allies will now have to arrest the guidelines and then yahoo, if they step by step foot on that territory. what is the reputation of damage to his route, which is what he's right, was particularly worried about well, in the,

in europe, in other countries that have generally been more supportive and more aware of international law, international humanitarian law. i think this is certainly going to isolate the israel further and he, uh nothing yahoo and along really are going to have to be pretty selective in terms of where they travel abroad for this is a will future a day in the united states however, that unfortunately it seems to be that the, both the leadership of both political parties are for the 1st time really organizing around in support of the entire war, criminal against the i, c. c. now united states has never been very supportive of the icpc. we never joined . there's even a u. s. law that forbids us from cooperating with it in any way into 2 separate the present, the authority to punish countries which cooperate with it. that even has a clause that says the president can use military for us to free of any uh,

american or, or, or, um, someone, uh it has a, a, a, a l. uh, a subsidiary. i lied uh a document that was held on behalf of the i see seat. so i think it's this is a part of a much of the bigger problem that donnelly is israel going to be more isolated in the world. so is the united states, the, to this and other scoring. and the fact that the united states is a rogue superpower. that even under a democratic administration, we are unwilling to recognize that the international humanitarian law applies to our allies just as much as it does to adversaries. so there's going to, there's gonna be a much bigger visibility going beyond israel. francesca y, as in the i, c. c going after any senior members of these really military or any of the senior politicians might not yet happen. i hope so. i cannot tell you why the i c c didn't do so i think that it's

a good start to go after the, the main responsible thing that the higher the highest session and the chain of command. but let me tell you something, the donkey there is universal jurisdiction for the crime of genocide. i often say that there is a role the domestic chords, a can and must play that is still very overlooked because a number of tools including the highest level of the media trade, those will have to be finding in gaza, have double nationalities from australia, from canada, from the u. k. from france there are many nationalities including throughout our country. so i, i recently scored the tough being, finding a nice route. so these countries need to be made to their condition make kind of their adjust the system. and i hope that civil society would keep an eye on these because starting to condition kennedy called tribute and my school to do to the work of the i t. c. i to see the universe subordinate cannot deal with the entirety

of the countless crimes that that'd be needed in the individual assign ebony within the time limit of the investigation of the court. so much more needs to be insured to add to the leave or justice to the part of scenes or a is not a a fail amongst so many as well. those with jewel nationality could be subject to universal jurisdiction. when i say there are british or an american or british or another, your opinions citizen, they could be charged with crimes even though those comes to take place on your opinion or british territory. i believe is some trial balloons has already been flooded. i think belgium of open proceedings against some of the, with dual citizenship and these, these have incidents and then report it in the as early press that then these are the collective psyche. all of these incidents and everything along the lines that the something is suggesting is, is just another piece and

a puzzle that we are constantly putting together a jigsaw puzzle where the final image is one of complete and utter hatred for israel. all of it, of course mc submitted, it doesn't matter what we do will be hated any way. it will be re file for it anyway. and if that's the case, why don't we buck all rules and regulations and just do we have to do. and i can't emphasize this enough. the jack box here for result is not the killing of all palestinians. it's not the annexation of palestinian land, it's finally achieving total absolute exclusive discretion in the use of power over its environment that is on wants to get out of this. and this is very visible. we're talking about does that it's very visible and the ongoing discussions overseas fire and live in israel wants an official international document. the granted permission to do whatever it swap, whatever it wants, level,

wherever it wants to whom is or it wants. that is what israel is. after it's not about is a reach, it's a goal and then it will stop. that is what we want. and as long as we don't have that, well, we'll just show the world implications of denying the sweat is our birthday. stephen, what the incoming trump administration try and get pressure the icpc to withdrawal the warranty? is there anything it could do? mike wald see set to become from national security advisor. so it's a strong repulse response to be on to somebody who buys a b. i. c. c is to be expected from the next us, i've ministration. i mean, it seems that the property ministration, even more than divide administration, has a contempt for international law. i mean, president trump is, has content for domestic law. when you look at the multiple indictments against him . i mean, this is the despite the united states, a reputation spider or self image as a country of law, not of man. there we are,

have always been an international outlier when it comes to international law. and again, despite playing a such a key role in the founding of the united nations, and many of these international legal statutes are the basis of the i see. so he's working, putting these indictments, and so i think really this is going to lead this is going to force americans, i think, to have a greater discussion about what we actually stand for. the one a good thing of helps from coming in however, is i think it might a give some, a democratic politicians, a more freedom to speak out against the us policy since being committed by a republican president instead of a democratic president. and maybe he just made it, at least, and some of them were progressing wings of the democratic party. and we can finally get some people to talk seriously about international law and america's obligations

. a francesco might the sets of the consequences, the israel, so the down the road, the europeans, in terms of supplying weapons in terms of the free trade agreement, the israel has with the european union. could that be? so the consequences let me say something the time comes to my mind 1st and foremost, listening to what mister goldberg was saying. i do fear i see die so that it would be, and he's in 3rd or so it's like i'm sense of entitlement and the sense of victim of doing in the united by these traditional movement. therefore, the measures that we are discussing, including what i would mention in a minute, must be accompanied by and foster of combustion and wisdom. when success sizing justice, justice, stored upon the, these are, these, are you one i think the discords for them as well. because of course they are also

. they have also been money if you needed any daughtry needed. and, and where the g that has not translated into a political doctrine, i don't know to go hatred, which has become political doctrine. but however, i think the one working needs to, to have been, he's the member states understand that they cannot help solve the question of bio stine without complying with international law. which means, so during the end of a genocide, all right, we are fortunately out of time, but thanks to august to francesca albanese to our goal, but on to professor stephen the soonest. and thank you to for watching. you can see the problem again. any time by visiting our website alger 0, don't com. and for further discussion, go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha, inside story. you can also draw the conversation on x. we all age a inside store for me,

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