is off of war and drains more than the threat of violence. it's right. is there access the lights, the spinning care from the heart of the story is there any forces are striking, densely populated areas? if you think schools, homes, and shelters, israel and its biggest ally, the united states, again isolated furiously attacking the international criminal court decision to issue arrest warrants with benjamin netanyahu on your most european nations say about execute the warrants is either mine steps on that sort. so what might happen next base is inside the to hello and welcome to the program and to and it's from statesman to warm to mine

in a day. the latest in the career of israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu. they arrest warrants for him on his form of defense minister, you'll have kalonde, of historic that accused of crimes against humanity in israel's will. on gauze, 44000 palestinians in gauze have been killed. most of them women and children, that plight is largely ignored and israel installed contrast to the fuel res, reaction which is erupt to the since the warrants were issued in the us as well as the biggest weapon supply and allied politicians have found re unity to expressing fury i'm threatening the court with sanctions. so how damaging is vista? israel added, standing in the world? what might it means as well as allies and supplies? and is the rule of international law on trial to will speak to august shortly. but 1st, this report from lower con, a ruling by the international criminal quotes on the say has made is ready prime

minister benjamin netanyahu and his phone with defense minister you of color and wanted men by issuing arrest warrants. the to is ray, the politicians on charges of commission will crimes. the i, c. c has polarized the world this being a predictably furious response from israel and its greatest ally the us. it is falsely accusing me the democratically elected prime minister of the state of israel, and israel's former defense minister, your gullet, of deliberately targeting civilians. this when we do everything in our power to avoid civilian casualties for us, president's job item quoted, outrageous on some sentences said they would look into functioning the quote. the us has committed a record amounts of military a to israel since october. the 7th 2023. we remain deeply concerned by the prosecutors rush to seek arrest warrants and the troubling process errors that lead

to this decision. however, most of your and the rest of the world, say zale, uphold the court decision and a rest, and that's a yahoo or kalonde, if they travel to the territory done. this decision is a binding decision on all state which includes all members of the union on binding this lemon discard this is some of as well the strongest allies are in europe, meaning this, the vision, they're too hungry. it's right. when prime minister victor old on says he will defy the warrants by inviting netanyahu to visit a specs person for bridge prime minister care still, i'm a said person would respect the jurisdiction of the i. c. c. one human rights lawyer says the day of reckoning for israel fleet is, was bound to come. israel as

a state over the last 75 years has a node the rule of low. that's what it's really about. not about adjustable, it's about it. and i'm just state, this is never respected. the rule of law. well, lawyers and politicians argue life to people and goes to remain a daily struggle for survival. as israel's relentless on thoughts continues. this is suffice to daily bombardments. they still are facing a disease. many living just on the sheets of plastic or flimsy tents. and so when the, via the hope of finding a single cell or the least lead is above the low underneath the national level. this is a rogue nation. and the roots of the international court unlocked, implemented for some the cases of tested international legal mechanisms. the us does not recognize the i c. c, but have none the less in to use the sickly supported cases against dispos

including rushes president lucky be a person. in this case, the ability of the court to dispense even have justice is also on trial. laura come to inside story out to 0. the okay, let's bring in a guess in june is francesca albanese, the you, and special reputable on the occupied posting entire trees and tel aviv already. goal book is a political commentator, unfold academic, specializing in middle east studies, and in san francisco. we have professor steven soon as he's a professor of politics at the university of san francisco, a warm welcome to you. all. i want to start with talking about the situation in gaza and i'll ask you 1st francesca, because the palestinians will come to the point of things and guards is the most important thing and all of this. will this change how israel prosecute it's war and gaza at the moment the rest of these warrants?

i wish to see clear. and in fact, looking at what has happened in the last 24 hours. i don't think it will be the shorter. but we know that the life of the body students in gaza is facing an ex essential search because of the conduct of extended is because of the analysis, the goal. so all the, all these row. and therefore, the only thing we can do is to make searchable possible pressure. no time need to have the general side of conduct a disadvantage and forcing sol. how did, but also advance of justice because of justice is. and they seems to be looking at the response to that piece given by many european states to start with. is it possible if there is enough pressure on every long denied is changing, but it is to change fast in order to protect the student's life or a do you think it's going to make much difference to pass policies and goals in the

moment? you know, i'm afraid i agree with this organization and regarding what you said in your opening remarks about how what's happening to palestinians in guys is the most important thing as far as is always concerned with talking about standards in gaza is the least important thing is there has absolutely no concern and no value for the past and in bloodshed and for the daily travails of living as a passing in does uh is there a is engaged in doing what it wants to do it as john complete and utter disregard and in fact is all has all of its herbs in one basket that bounced. it is denying, rejecting the court's decision, rejecting international law standing alone making it's well deserved. drugs status into a kind of a badge of pride. as i can back away from this course of action is the only one that has steam to these arrest warrants, increase the pressure on israel and the us on how the war in cars are,

is being conducted. the certainly increases the pressure, but unfortunately share the skepticism of the other guess in terms of whether or have any kind of immediate impact of but any advances international law in human rights that we've seen over the decades. and indeed, this entries has been a gradual process, and i certainly see the indictments as a step in the right direction, even though unfortunately the palestinians will not be feeling the impacting time. soon. francesca is st. just benjamin netanyahu and you'll have deland to shoulder the blame for how this war is being prosecuted. absolutely not. but they are the main responsible and the main faces of the car into atrocities. let me say i be not disgruntled with the overall process of this investigation from the very beginning because of this concert information. so 1st of all, there is that the over 7 context, the establishment of the code i'm used to my start us in detention,

which has resulted in international and crime executing arbitrator operational delivered on a mass scale. but also that are even in the, in the r as where it says, as it has to be an issue, i hear critique. so saying, and how come with that extermination has been mixed? well, i think that would festival we cannot lose momentum. this is an incredible step forward and we need to be don't need that bush for further justice. so both against a gone and they are now again the charge. i would like to say that the charge of extermination in my assessment has not been taken off by the court, the because not enough evidence was provided for the time of starvation. as i mentioned before. see if they should have been further investigation and evidence provided by the office of the prosecutor. concerning extermination to bones and artillery fire and not the fire so, but the process is ongoing, so it would have come and now the to come. i hope that the investigation wouldn't

be enrolled in either a alleged agreement of any sort of especially the architects of the i'm exemption and the taking off the land that the spot, the law i law for a lot of people could buy. but also, you know, it's the overall of our guided system in both by yourself and the meetings, conditions of life and being able that is to be interrogated. yeah. so all right, yeah. does responsibility for this more like just in the hands of, of netanyahu all go on to all the others or is that or other questions to post res . rarely societies a whole it most certainly doesn't start for and with, within your guns, there are many in his own who would like this to be seen as a wrong doing on the part, isn't it? then, you know, the only protest movement is at the moment, is one that focuses on within the hour and is uh, personal. wrong doings is always society as a whole should be at the very least ask questions it's not put on trial. the

a tremendous effect isn't it says this genocide. uh the, the unprecedented uh, um, facility with which it has been carried out has to do with this structure of a system that has so deeply internalize the demon ization that has been characteristic of his early policy. these are the, the bostonians pretty much since, as well as inception that there's, there's absolutely no need for a detailed organized plan to carry out a clearly defined goals. all that needed to be done was to unleashes rose military as it was for us with the aid of the united states and other members of the international community on doza. and leave it completely on refresh because that i think is the true evil of this. the as early genocide is the impunity, that is what has enjoyed since it has existed. and that infinity is what needs to

be under question that infinity needs to go on trial. that is most certainly not limited to me, that's in the, on the okay. steven us present, joe biden said the, tracing how much israel is the same as equivalent to how much is it is outrageous? showed his range easily is rails lead us be treated differently from how must be viewed differently? actually the what i was invited and said is on through the israeli is the leaders and the i'm oscillator. and had they survived the 2 other i'm us leaders that were, are going to dentists investigations have a, are being prosecuted for distinct and separate crimes. so it's not the same, in fact the, some us leaders, we're, we're a charge with more serious crimes overall. so this idea that there's some kind of bias against israel really is ground us and, and indeed we look, look at the fact that there have been 67 of people indicted by the international criminal court since its founding in 1999. this is the very 1st time that any is re

lease had been in dire 1st time. any jews have been indicted 1st time any of body from a pro western government has been indicted. so this idea, there's somehow a bias in the i c. c, that led to these indictments, it is rarely officials. this is completely groundless. francesca cook, these ran a couple of done anything to avoid these warrens being issued. remember they were born repeatedly of a not letting out and enough a they, they knew these are coming. could they could they have stopped it? absolutely. these could have stopped on the 9th of october. this should have never started in the 1st space, and they've been given warning, dr. warnings, they should have stopped in october. we looked over when and searched the u. n. special offer doors war and started warning up there is concern assigned to the seat of the risk of genocide. and after 2 weeks concluded that the genocide was

ongoing when the sound of coffee got to see through the proceedings again, a d, i. c, j. 4, eas, respite, each of the genocide convention, wendy i. c j e should the 1st year and i see this all provisioning managers in january and then the 2nd in march. and then the 30 may stick with that stopped when the ice to start the one security council, the capacity solution or during the ceasefire. industrial dino and this is why i, i just, i finally to really pulling the kind of this event that the easy day let ease ease of posey denouncing the i. c. c's work the races trial because x exactly. the overall is ethan function, deeply flawed comparison, should open the entire jewish population around the world because we shall not forget to detract was what's wrong. we've been wrongfully accused of treason. why does the timing out? probably told the world that he, we literate garza,

and he actually has done it in front of the entire world. the solar eclipse. and if we need to do is not only baseless, but also a disgraceful refusal is 3 to deflect the community board of trustees. and francesca israel is israel is going to try to argue that it had a, a, has a rope boss to judiciary that could rigorously pro misconduct wind in the i. c. c. go for that argument. this is such an important point. this is why my last city for to genocide us go, don't, you know, raise your, i said we need to look at different kinds of your conduct in crime and talking to you, you too, bye blend against the design of your defined experience and look not just at individuals, but the speed east row has a set of proclaimed level assistance. we enroll them into parliament, entities treated separated functions that should work as a check and balanced in such a system. genocide would never occurred to because inside to make to genocide was already found by the i. c. j in january 2024,

and he's supposed to be sure he was off to investigate and prosecuting size meant to genocide. what does the entity shrink, donald not the other day contributing to create to be in the neighboring conditions for the genocide to continue on? are eva, seems to have been read unit say across the political spectrum in israel are, is riley's rallying around the flag, or are they going to back the potential, the netanyahu and go on phase arrest of the unity you describe is really not that rare. while as well appears to be undergoing sincere domestic, political disputes that may be the case on various stomach, very specific issues. but when it comes to the genocide, when it comes to understanding as policy, there is a very broad and very deep consensus that is or could not have done other. israel's actions in gaza and, and 11 are justified. not necessarily because of support for subtler agendas.

organization, but simply because after october 7th, most as early as and again the great majority of this there is a sweeping consensus firmly believes that there is no quote in both solution to israel's quote unquote security problem that does not include effectively removing the guys a strip and its inhabitants from the is rarely a frame of view that doesn't necessarily mean kill. i mean uh ask is early, this is or is it a wants to kill civilians. they'll say, just like our prime minister, of course not. but if we have to kill civilians to accomplish this target, and this target again, remember, is not the destruction of from us. this target is getting full exclusive permission to do whatever we want. whenever we want. the 2nd we decided we have. ready bravo is on the way we need to kill civilians as collateral damage. well then we need to kill as many as have to be killed. we don't want to do it, but we have no. ready way there's no real disputes here in that sense,

all is rarely supported with any other thoughts. and so there's no threats to benjamin netanyahu. his job is as prime minister, many times has been written off, many times is survived, it will survive this. oh, definitely. i think it's enough to look at these would be competitors. none of them has offered an alternative to nothing else. policies, none of them is called for an end to the war. none of them has suggested that the war has had adverse effects on as well. all of them stand firmly behind that and you know, in see no other until with no other alternatives and what is ro is actually doing? okay, stephen, what about the reputation of these riley styles itself is the only liberal democracy in the middle east. most of its allies will now have to arrest the guidelines and then yahoo if they step, but step foot on that territory. what is the reputation of damage to his route, which is what he's riley is particularly worried about. but in the, in europe,

in other countries that have generally been more supportive and more aware of international law, international humanitarian law. i think this is certainly going to isolate the israel further. and he of nothing yahoo and belong really are going to have to be pretty selective in terms of where they travel abroad for this is a will future. they the united states, however, that unfortunately, it seems to be that the, both the leadership of both political parties are for the 1st time really organizing around in support of the entire war, criminal against the i, c. c. now, united states has never been very supportive of the icpc. we never joined. there's even a u. s. law that forbids us from cooperating with it in any way in to, to. it was a part of the present the authority to punish countries which cooperate with it. that even has a clause that says the president can use military force to free of any uh,

american or, or, or, um, someone, uh it has a uh, a citizen allied uh, a government that was held on behalf of the i see seat. so i think it's, this is in part of a much of the bigger problem that donnelly is israel going to be more isolated in the world. so is the united states, the, to this and other scoring. and the fact that the united states is a rogue superpower, that even under a democratic administration, we are unwilling to recognize that the international humanitarian law applies to our allies just as much as it does 2 adversaries. so there's going to, there's going to be a much bigger visibility going beyond israel. francesca y, as in the i, c. c going after any senior members of these really military or any of the senior politicians might not yet happen. i hope so. i can tell you why the i c c didn't do. so i think that it's

a good start to go after the, the main responsible thing that the higher the highest session and the chain of command. but let me tell you something, not only there is universal jurisdiction for the crime of genocide, i often say that there is a rules the domestic course a can and must play that is still very overlooked. because a number of tools, including the highest level of the media, treat those who i have been finding in gaza, have double nationalities from australia, from canada, from the u. k. from france there are many nationalities including throughout our country. so i, i recently scored the tough being, finding a new so, so these countries need to talk to me to their, to do show, make on the justice system. and i hope that civil society would keep an eye on this because starting to condition can, can contribute. and my school to get to the work of the i t. c. i to see the

universe of body cannot deal with the entirety of the countless crimes that that'd be needed in the individual assign ebony within the time limit of the investigation of the court. so much more needs to be insured to add to the leave or justice to the part of scenes or a is that a fail amongst the so managerial those with jewel nationality could be subject to universal jurisdiction? why say, there are british or an american or british or another, your opinions, citizen, they could be charged with crimes, even though those comes to take place on your opinion or british territory. i believe is some trial balloons has already been floated. i think belgium often proceedings against some of give it to us citizenship. and these, these of incidents have been reported in the as early press that then these are the collective psyche. all of these incidents and everything along the lines that the something is suggesting is,

is just another piece of puzzle that we are constantly putting together a jigsaw puzzle where the final image is one of complete and utter hatred for israel. all of it, of course, anti semitic. it doesn't matter what we do will be hated any way. it will be reviled, sorry, it anyway. and if that's the case, why don't we buck all rules and regulations and just do we have to do. and i can't emphasize this enough, the jack box here for result is not the killing of all faust and it's, it's not the annexation of palestinian land. it's finally achieving total absolute exclusive discretion in the use of power over its environment. but is there a wants to get out of this and this is very visible, we're talking about does that. it's very visible in the ongoing discussions overseas fire and live in a israel wants an official international documents, granted permission to do whatever it's want, whatever it wants level,

wherever it wants to. whom is that right? once that is what israel is after it's not about is a reach, it's a goal and then it will stop. that is what we want. and as long as we don't have that, well, we'll just show the world implications of denying this. what is our birthday? stephen, what the incoming trump administration try and get the pressure of the icpc to withdrawal the warranty. is there anything it could do? mike wald see set to become from national security advisor. so it's a strong repulse response to the on to symmetric bias. if the icpc is to be expected from the next us of ministration, i mean, it seems that the public ministration, even more than divided ministration, has a contempt for international law. i mean, president trump is, has content for domestic law. when you look at the multiple indictments against him, i mean, this is the despite the united states, a reputation spider or self image as a country of law,

not of man. there we are. that's always been an international outlier when it comes to international law. and again, despite playing a such a key role in the founding of the united nations, and many of these are international legal statutes. so the basis of the i, c, c is working the leading of these indictments. and so i think really this is going to the lead is going to force americans, i think, to have a greater discussion about what we actually stand for the one a good thing about the trunk coming in however is i think it might a give some, a democratic politicians, a more freedom to speak out against the us policy since being committed by a republican president instead of a democratic president. and maybe he just made at least, and some of the more progressive wings of the democratic party. we can finally get some people to talk seriously about international law and america's obligations. a

francesco might this sets also the consequences, the israel, so the down the road, the europeans, in terms of supplying weapons in terms of the free trade agreement, the israel has with the european union. could that be? so the consequences let me say something the time comes to my mind 1st and foremost, listening to what mister goldberg was saying. i do fear i see die so that it would be, and he's in 3rd or so it's like of the sense of entitlement and the sense of victim monday in the united by these did you show movement. therefore, the measures that we are discussing, including what i would mention in a minute, must be cool, funny to buy and to foster of combustion and wisdom. when also exercising just is just a store deposit the these are, these are you on. i think the discourse for them as well because of course they are

also, they have also been money if you needed any daughtry needed to the end. and with the g, the test shop translated into a political don't train, i don't know to go hatred, which has become political doctrine. but however, i think the one work needs to, to have been he's the member stage, understand that they cannot help solve the question of palestine without complying with international law, which means securing the end of the genocide. all right, we are fortunately out of time, but thanks to august to francesca albanese to our goal, but on to professor stephen the soonest. and thank you to for watching. you can see the problem again. any time by visiting our website alger 0, don't com. and for further discussion, go to our facebook page, that's facebook dot com, forward slash ha, inside story. you can also draw the conversation on x. we are a j inside store for me,

but smith and the whole team here by the on counting the cost. the us dollar has been on the road but wide and should the rest of the world be worried for some days on the pressure to choose between the american and european economic models, but should it have to plus point entities us middle class is shrinking. counting the cost on i'll just say a rough, unique perspective. we don't want ahead to well, but we no longer have any private spaces on the incidence. that's a scary well on heard voices a year into this genocide, it still remains large. one section to connect with our community and tap into conversations you will find elsewhere, but humanity, the number of people who want to stop sending weapons has gone up and up despite what they hear in the mainstream media in the united states. the stream on out to 0,

a 0 last one is a christian village which she almost leaves afflict to from neighboring towns and areas being destroyed. the daily waves of these right strikes, total, the city and the surrounding area had a population around a $100000.00 people, as well as issued a full evacuation order on the city and the surrounding areas, forcing thousands of people to flee. so i'm a staying at this manner and i church you're saying is being handled in a month and says he is no to load and believing he's right. at least trying to stay calm or facilities inside whatever we found, the neighbors are very kind, very generous. yes ma'am, create a division in the past. and now the same thing. many people have never lived in these parts of the country. country that suffered secretary and violent cost, and they are desperate to go back to back to

a home that may no longer exist. the coming through the rubble in the heart of lebanon's capital, it's really a strikes really central favorites. the law i'm darn jordan. this is out a 0 life. and also coming scrambling for across the bread and in desperate since to the you in the ones does that is on the brink of nowhere near enough from develop.