done and is really slowly operating on the div cover in series, knowing that discovery would make such and out you 0. well, tell us a gripping story most that's by coming operated on the cover in syria, in the 1960 days just career that ended in public execution, eli cohen, most of the agents on al jazeera euphoria, is turning into this fast, and many syrian refugees in your days after the pool of a charlotte side, several companies have paused sooner than asylum application. how does this affect the status? will they be forced to return home? this is inside store, the

hello welcome to the program and the and it's nice. bolden, a 1000000 syrians of salt asylum in europe, in the past 13 years escaping bull and persecution. but they are, but the charlotte side is raising questions of the future of about 800000 refugees . at least 16 countries. a put a hold on you on, on the process asylum applications from syrians. what triggered to this radical decision? do your opinion, governments believe syria? it's a safe for refugees to return out. if i do choose to go home, what lies in store will discuss these issues with poll. but 1st this report, by saturday, the syrians say they are finally free. and this is what freedom sounds like. the thousands have

taken to the streets across europe to celebrate the full of the shot i left side on the end of his family's modem 5 decade from from athens to london. and then in the syrian diaspora. brace the cold and rain to mock the historic moment. the. okay, the feeling is just incredible. we can't believe it. we're trying to believe it's true. after 12 years of extreme suffering, our families are finally so happy. back in 2015, johnny welcomed almost a 1000000 refugees. but since then, it's open door policy seems to have closed just a day off the side was ousted it during several other european countries and freezing, pending asylum requests from syrians some fall right politicians, or even pointing the syrians to be deported. we want to send them home, we want to have them live in the country to rebuild their homes,

that country. and so we want the qualified people like medical doctors going home, syria needs these people right now. those who are settled in their adopted homeland say, the decision to return should be best. and this alone, a lot of them came here. they build their lives here and they were forced to build their lives here to start from scratch. and they have, they have the option, a lot of them have the option not to go back that they didn't have before, but they're free to do whatever they want to know. un refugee agency says returning syrians, they several challenges. many of the rooms have been destroyed, the infrastructure ensued, it had been destroyed. and there is a very serious challenge in accessing services like electricity, water schools, a health facility. syria has been devastated by civil since 2011. i sat is

accused of severe human rights violations, including the use of chemical weapons against his own people. during his tenure, hundreds of thousands were killed and millions fled. now that aside is going there is an opportunity to peace in syria. but for some refugees, it's too soon to decide whether it's safe to return home. sorry, go out to 0. the inside story. the, let's bring in a guess from the west. midlands in the u. k. were joined by louise calvary, the executive director of asylum rides, charge the asylum, maxes and ties is busher also be a syrian refugee? i'm human rights activist and in london is daniel. so have a specialist in the international rescue. g little i'm protection. welcome to old to inside story. daniel, i'll, i'll start with you this decision by many your paying countries to suspend the sign

and applications by syrians happened very quickly. why the haste? well, the highest is really based down to political. we said, cms dogs, if you look at a, there's a snowball effect of 1st one country that another very quickly one after the other . but it's an attempt to force still some like link elements and on to you. so i'm not limits in the countries. in a way, it's really, it's a political pressure on the rather than looking at it from a practical or even legal standpoint. it's louise, what do you think is behind this, this, the speedy decision by these, your pin countries? i think that we have a very different context in the case of the rest of the year. i understand the decisions in, in germany, for example, the have very short processing times to have a temporary pulls on claims that i would urge them to continue processing those claims. in the u. k, we have a significant assign them backlog people. we have syrians where in the asylum

system they've been waiting 3 for years. and we don't have lesson rugs in the u. k for any assigning teachers throughout the sign of jeremy. so effectively what the case decisions is done is presented by the delay to people that have all the way to use their living on the very, very low levels of assigned them simple. so we have fairly significant concerns. but this decision by the u. k. government is going to drive more people into poverty, destitution and homelessness. so we've just people in this town that in the u. k, is the fact that people are already waiting so long, and that's why it's much worse than is it compared to other european countries. think when he look at other european countries, their size and price, this is a much more efficient. they have a much shorter time frame for processing with the k, which is coming out, the conservative government, they set to close these items system the last year or 2 it's government. so we've seen very, very low processing rates and no asylum processing for anyone that have migrate and

c, u k, a regularly. so there's already, we've already accumulated a huge back rock and the syrians will continue to weigh, and they've been in this country for many years. okay. uh, bushera i in power as i assume delights at the full of last side. but what did you think when you heard the european countries with suspending these or opposing these new asylum applications to i have to say it's very disappointing. and it's really in, this is the lies and layers of years of displacement frustrated that they didn't, you know, go through this basement once, twice what 3 times or 4 times you know, they, they went through so much to get to where they are now. and they have been living and insert dignity for so long. and as the other guys just mentioned, it's so long on the day of living this stress of not knowing what is going to happen. and i have to disagree with like the efficiency of asylum seeking in, you know, i, i live in size that i just look assigned to me. and it took so long and not even as

long as for other deputies. the problem with, with, with the process here is that we don't know we can follow up with, i would, would, i would request what is going to happen with that. so i find it very dehumanizing in the 1st place and now it's very much invisible. lising, the, the, the suffering of the suit in refugees will gone through so much because of the dictator that just had fallen. and we're very happy for that. but at the same time, you can jump on the 1st opportunity that you have to set that one back. because your, your son as what's the new or what western western countries are saying that they might be better is we don't trust them. they are still don't know what those less this why do you want somebody to just back that that and then as was mentioned before in the past, we don't have infrastructure. we don't do cation, we don't have, we don't have health. and now we, we, we see that in the east of syria, a lot of and yours are being effectuated because of glasses. so the, the future is insert and then we can make, we can trust and haste to the,

to making this decision. as might disappointing a brochure, it just quickly help us understand your, your personal asylum process, how long it took and whether you find it the typical for all the people of a syringe you've been working with since then to yes, i have been working with students with these cosigned them, i'm a sense of the asylum and i studied the process inside my asylum person and it took, i think, a piece to use a to get all my papers done and nothing. all the whole like stress when process of not knowing when you interview is who's going to enter. do you want to, to know your life story? and if you are convincing or not, and then you do that the, let me go to so much of the and get some stability, some sort of stability after so much of suffering. a lot of people, i know they, they and i at the time of good, which is not only the, the, the full, the government, but also i think it's the default of the circumstances. but also it's,

it's just the humanizing to let people wait for 4 years with only at least spc, which is a people that allows you to stay in bus with another to move around. so okay, i think, yeah, i have seen people wait for so long and i have seen also like institutions, institutions, prioritizing different assignments to others because different put it to get circumstances. so i think, yeah it's, it's long and it's, it's, it's, that's one and it's unknown and we don't know where our papers and what is going topic. we don't have a system to track this down unless maybe north northern europe, maybe they should not have that. okay, gotcha, we don't have that. all right, daniel. high out, terry are all sham. h 2? yes, this is actually considered a terrorist organization in the, by the european union down by the united states. should these countries be so easily at doing this, given the designation that they have still put on this on this group is now running serious as well. so, you know, it's, and this is one of the huge issues with the speed particular that they made this

decision. they were already seeing some countries talking about returning sevien refugees. now that would fund to men. so you guys, every principle of international law, we're told us you'd want to tell me this. you have to, i mean, you comp since going back to an unsafe company is principle and local norm before we do not know what's going to happen in sylvia. nobody knows what's going to happen and save you the stage, and it will tell you it is. so things to settle down because as much as at the infrastructure alone has been decimated during the course of a conflict. so what we say in middle is talk about what we're going to suspend applications. we're going to potentially start with tons. is a fundamental issue with states saying what we're not paying attention to the laws . we have agreed to uh, louise, daniel, touch somebody earlier on, but we had from all tons of of deutsche lands leader, allies, vito saying that the reason many for many people in syria to flee no longer applies

. and it reflects if you have many pauses on the rights in the fall, right. especially in europe. does she have a point, a jump me heading into elections? of course we can see why she's saying that. yeah, i think that is for far too early for us to have any sense of safety for the people of syria. we have to wait and see which new government forms, whatever approaches towards a pest future minority groups. for example, for women, full coverage, people. we know the cottage people have been persecuted in that region for some time protection needs and the needs for people to migrate. all the personal and the complex. what we need is for people to have respect for support to the side of determination, just needs. we need people to be encouraged to build that hose and the environment that they feel safe space to respect the international and international framework

exists. just simply reject claims of a nice people for your country. because that's been an uprising against a, a dictator until we see the sense of safety on the ground in syria. i think the good or should be is that evidence that i'm to mine for politics on his mind, the narrative that 6 ha, lots of european and you take government a policy and agenda. the fact that we didn't really truly 24 hours. we're seeing close for people to be returned to syria. it's just an estimate. as we look at the experience, is the syrians as best for really policy explained across the last few years and how they've been failed by successive european governments. busher, have you felt the attitude towards migrants like yourself change in the years since you 1st arrived in friends and isn't here since the civil war stops it?

yeah, uh so i just want to comment on chris being persecuted as not only like, i think the entire student population has enjoyed so much and by this dictate that like along with the currents. but obviously i'll be one. well, no one was sped from as a criminal entity. no one was stand some aggression in laws coming that i think the acted you did change and it's also very bizarre for me that then you like negative about aside being the one that being the only solution we need to normalize with him and you know it's like for me it's just for guessing all the atrocities about have been that have been committed against syrians and actually to just say, yeah, this is what works for us. and that's it's, you know, i think they would have come up with this negative any ways to subsidy back. and this was the golden opportunity. but for me, it was like, as if you're,

your house is burning down your neighbor close to as long as the fire is put out you something about you don't care about what has what the consequences are and how they deal with what is happening next. so i think even according to international law, of leasing the modem to hold, it has to be both in 33 time with all the dignity you can just send people back. and if they choose to stay in these companies that they've been in, they invested and they were very integrated, they give so much to these companies as well. they should be able to do it with, with, with no pressure whatsoever. so i find that really disappointing also the image that was also constructed about as a and to have to do that with well change towards us that you know, you lived very well before that, that evolution. why did you do that? if it wasn't, yes, we did that evolution because of some nice images stuff we're seeing today. after that the prison is office criminal. happen to find that the open, as i've always told us, whoever goes to these prisoners would never see the light of sun again. but they

just see the light of a sudden again, yes, they stepped away then the sold. but we weren't able to actually bring them out of prisons and show the criminality and the address. it is not even imagine the book that doesn't have done to us. 1254 years with along with his father. oh yeah. the, the, the that, that, that you change and it will continue to change because they think of as a burden. but we know, we all know that to be on top invested in europe and the media because of a lot of economies around the world neighboring parties into didn't go to as well. but, but for the future bush or just let me ask you this about your your impressions. first of of h t s, i mean i'm a bit of mohammed al gilani. he's, he's, it's lead. he's sort of been on something of a charm offensive. he's he said, but that must be legal frameworks that protect to ensure the rights of will not a system that serves one tax one sec. all you. what are your 1st impressions about what h d s promises?

yeah, i think i could think about this for so going good. part of the 1st fact is that e s. studios we don't need to be in the place of just defined or so over and over and invisible. i think the other city in that are part of this victory. for me, it's not the only issue. yes. it's not only about the learning. it's about 14 years and 54 years of southern goes to the in spain with the lives with the buddies. would the houses with the signature that you manage to act at this point? so we get to use the whole thing. so here's what i'm, but if you want me to ask you a question, i think yesterday the, the, the special in both of the, to that you um, into the set it and i agree with them. we have only seen positive messages from some the other factors one now that i to, to debate. so these are in a pacific way which was exactly the objective of oh, it's up and was and so i think everyone it was tired and everyone was very happy to

see that it happened with no atrocities, with no bloodshed. the me so i think what now we can no, no one can know what would happen. but just as students, i think the thing that we do, the comforts of the most is that we have options. we have seen that was the biggest but as i of human history and one of the biggest dictators of our time is gone. and now we can think of a transition and period transition. the politics we can think of including be one. i don't think we have to think about that. it's, it should be a gift that this will happen. but now i see at least the light at the end of the defendant with i said this was not happening. it was back in and it'll be what was going back to normalize. well, that's not good trafficking to state. so now yeah, things will change and we don't know. i can't do any good. all right, thank you, daniel, what we hear. bush was a passion that enthusiasm pulled up vote for the future. but when someone applies for asylum,

just got back to the individuals that we're talking about here. what are the criteria on what their application is? judge, just help us understand that 1st. so the main criteria from the song location is a well founded fast. and what we're saying, let me switch, i'm oh, shovel us, that's come that fold up, fee is gone. that's not how this works for the stage for a long period time. and each individual case has to be treated under international, on its own individual. now that c e condo blanket bond site, this nationality, we will not post this on the applications. so what we're seeing at moment to state is trying to get some around that by standing. it's a temporary pause, but in fact, it is a full time. now that well founded fear for a lot of people has not changed. the situation is still unstable. so it wasn't going door to door around the country to a whole areas which are still dangerous and you're going to see more of the

batteries have conflict is coming through as, as always happens in these situations. so we have to be what states have to be doing is looking at the initial problem that was put in, but also how the circumstances of change and how people are still feeling. because we could show it and say before things, before you said about voluntary returns, the resist hanging in special ed section for refugee status, which is voluntary. and that will be people who were to embark to sylvia. also, i'm afraid will under be somebody go back just to visit before wanting to come back to the homes that they built up of the is now the best of state saying, well you've gone back to sylvia. you aren't coming back. but even international little recognizes, compelling reasons of which the p t, a state of the fear that people have filed, lingering and carrying on preventing them being able to feel safe,

permanently in the country. and that's what needs to be brought to introduce this on times. that we can see, you know, the way that i can, i also ad can you designate a wheel governs trying to designate a positive a country as the site as safe to go back to might they try and say you can go to the east, it's safe that it is in a, in the know, that sort of thing, a certainty they, they, they, they can try to do that. and we see now certainly within the u. k. asylum process, we saw the most recent me and most typically in afghanistan, previous to the full of a, the coalition at over there. and before, at the 1st couple to the top to bottom, we sold in the state say, well, the taliban is prevalent in this region, but you can relocate to another region of that country. what they so boils down to is a states playing, to be honest, foss them news with the fundamental tents that the refugee to mention,

and the need for people to seek century. if you don't on uh, pause individual sense of why they need to be in another country over here do. if you try and shut the door on the bull that you do the feed irregular migration plays and you track people into randy dangerous situations. as we've seen, trout here it, you does have very high levels of irregular migration. and if we see member states stopped to try out from the door in the people in the syrians people's faces. you will see, i'll tell you that what was of the regular migration. ultimately, people don't feel safe to attend to syria unless force to return. they will simply re my grand and then you're going to see a even bigger migration phase hostile boulder policies try the irregular migration . there is an option to causal link bash as a member states. what we need to be doing saying let's take

a step back. let's talk to people that understand where they need to be and let's make that safe and sustainable for them. and then you have good manage safe migration pathways for people. i'm really worried that by taking these really kind of shifting hostile steps to syrians at what should be a moment of reflection celebration within the syrian communities and yes groups. and i'm now we're seeing a lot of fee within those groups that they're going to lose that time in the u. k. in germany and other countries would be forced back to a country that doesn't have good health care systems. the infrastructure around the house is may have been destroyed and then not going to be able to sustain or time. and then that then, for course, really to a factory making noise rates. but just just quickly louise, the arguments the layout, the you have a very hard time making. ready just waiting a lot of the your, the, your pin electra. it's all of the validity of your arguments. don't you with the,

but that's the problem we do very sadly. i think the, i guess i mentioned the, you know, there is a real, i don't mind for the narrative that has great. so lots of european governments new take over. and i am seeing that in costs north america as well as that startling. she's that we know the cost of the policy is trying to regular migration and regular migration is a symptom of place, border regimes. the more you close your code to the low cost. so you make your environment towards people that unlike rating, the more you will drive continue just like losing free migration and that's something that should consider. so. all right, and daniel, what, what indications are you looking for that syria would be a safe country to go back back to well, okay, and it's the stability and the government. it needs to be an infrastructure within including health care education. we need to be in showing that we didn't

communities develop reprisals or people trying to take household glitches, what's known as a job or solution. that's what you always look for and a refugee situation. it takes years to come about. so we're looking for long term demonstration that it is a genuinely psych price. i'm the people in themselves, feel safe, going back. a said that the lingering effect to pdf that you well founded fear that people have lost for years and years. so we need to be looking at how people feel in themselves. do that you feel safe enough to go back, and it's not time to states to tell them that they are safe, is don't that personal feelings. i'm not is going to take a very long time, and that's why making a decision within 2448 hours to suspend applications. it doesn't just pose legal risks for this, but it was with genuine on the morning of the whole of the international refugee order. because it doesn't take into account while you people are seeking some of

them in the 1st place on the loan to a needs full that a so on, even after situation that has changed in a dramatic effect. does it house here? for sure. i'll just wrap up with you if i may. i mean, can you as anybody told you what life in italy was like on the high out terry all sham. can you draw any conclusions from how locked was that is how it might be in the rest of damascus, because these will be excuses. the european policy makers look for. so i think is somebody that no one can deny you on the s t s. and on the old affections on the kurds as well. we had a lot of violations. but for me again, it's not compatible to that side of it. and i want to lay out where that is very important. i am not saying that i know for sure that it's going to be better. i know for sure what is going to happen. i'm just saying that it's for sure better than i said, but then what will happen next is very angle. and also just talking about the

insurance as we need to to go back as well. it's yeah, again, that has been for some of the same time that the smoke political democratic. it was up to you. i don't see people who paid but their lives. so what fortune use i'm willing to give this up now. so i think they would work hard, but then if they, if that are obstacles they should be able to decide for themselves to go back or not. but also on the national lot you have to do in order to prevent assign them to someone, you have to study it the case by case, but also for the good it has to be individual. you can't send people in mass like this back. no, it has to also be studied, so you'll have to be taught or you don't. so i don't think this is a good argument for them to say yes, actually s was good at that point and now we can send them back on to today, which one i don't think so. and it's kind of people. sure. it's on the test. yes. now even the semester site is involved, a lot of people are involved in the next step, but it takes so much time to assure people that this is, this is what,

this is good then it's, it's going to look different and just parts. and then for me, i would love to go back to you. i would love to invest what i learned and what i acquired to out of my journey since i left to you so that we can look for transition as adjust this, we can hold it as a comfortable we can talk to my old partners to the human rights, but at the same time i need insurance isn't interested in something that i would be able to move around to come out of the country and just like come back to the night that i bought outside of city. so yeah, we need guarantees, and it takes time, you can send me back. now if i don't us. all right, well we're out of time unfortunately, but thanks to all guests to louise callaway to bush will also be answered, daniel, so have the thank you to for watching. you can see the program again any time by visiting our website out, is there a dot com for further discussion? go to a facebook page about facebook dot com forward slash h a insights. you can also join the conversation on x. we are at a j inside store for me,

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that's a single thanks to an abundance of well tough programming. they're a unique, fascinating creatures. he found nowhere else on the, on the i'm carry dalston tell you how the top stories now and i'll just here. so he is new administration has about to bring change, as it works, to restore stability and security across the country is need to, i'm a 100. the eligibility has such to work with international organizations. it's a secure potential chemical weapons sites across the country. it's also from us to hold those involved in torturing and killing detainees and state prison accountable . the pentagon is cautious about the new c with the ministrations commitments to secure chemical weapons sites.